JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention

KNFinch

Hi there,

This is a long post but I would appreciate any help or perspective!

My fiance and I are getting married next month.  It is going to be a Justice of the Peace ceremony with just our immediate family in attendence.  Originally my fiance and I wanted it to be a very private moment between the two of us but my more traditional family insisted they be there so we invited them, along with my fiances family. 

A year from now we are planning on having a renewal of the vows ceremony and reception for all of our friends and extended family.  We want the renewal of the vows ceremony to be simple and a joyous celebration of our marriage.  My parent stated they support this and have generously offered to pay for it.

Some points of contention cropped up yesterday regarding what is appropriate for a renewal of the vows and what is not. My parent's perspective is that the renewal of the vows should not pose as our actual wedding.  This, I agree with.  However, executionally, we are having a hard time agreeing on what is appropriate for a renewal of the vows and what is not. For example, my parents feel that it is inappropriate for me to have any attendents, or if I do have attendents they should not walk down the isle or wear matching dresses.  They do not feel like it is appropriate for me to walk down the isle and the groom to enter from the side. They do not feel like my fiance and I should have a first dance at the reception. Most of their objections are not clear, contratictory and subjective, for example, they do not think i should wear a wedding dress, but they do not care if I wear a long white dress.

I am having a really hard time navigating through these objections. Firstly, because I do not think that many of these details matter. Who cares where the groomsmen enter from? I understand philosophically what they are getting at and feel there are reasonable things to acheive it. For example, stating clearly on invitations that it is a renewal of vows and not asking for gifts.  I want to repect their wishes and their financial contribution but if they are going to dictate the smallest details like what kind of dresses the attendents should wear, or where they enter from, when that has no traditional significance or affect on them financially, it is not worth the stress. I feel like my parents objections are fueled by an emotional displeasure of me not having a traditional wedding. And they are creating a line of what is appropriate for a renewal of vows vs. a wedding when that line does not exist.

Has anyone here dealt with anything like this?  I want to approach everything logically and reasonably but am having a hard time doing it.

Thanks!

peekaboo2011

For the love of all that is good and holy in this world, it is an AISLE.  An isle is an island.

And etiquette wise, your parents are 100% correct.

misshart00

Your parents are correct etiquette wise. Why not just have an awesome anniversary party next year or wait until then to get married? Also, I'm not trying to be snarky but there are about ten other posts on this page asking very similar questions. You should look through those.

Ro041

Your parents are correct.  You shouldn't wear a wedding dress or have attendants.  Those are "wedding" things and not "vow renewal" things.  Listen to them.  They seem wise and their advice is spot on.

ETA: Spelling

STARMOON44

Your parents are right. And as a guest I'd feel insulted you valued your PPD enough to have one, but not enough to actually invite me to a real wedding.

Stina51286

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:b6860b76-467c-41ae-a81c-a377daa8a58d">JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi there, This is a long post but I would appreciate any help or perspective! My fiance and I are getting married next month.  It is going to be a Justice of the Peace ceremony with just our immediate family in attendence.  Originally my fiance and I wanted it to be a very private moment between the two of us but my more traditional family insisted they be there so we invited them, along with my fiances family.  A year from now we are planning on having a renewal of the vows ceremony and reception for all of our friends and extended family.  We want the renewal of the vows ceremony to be simple and a joyous celebration of our marriage.  My parent stated they support this and have generously offered to pay for it. Some points of contention cropped up yesterday regarding what is appropriate for a renewal of the vows and what is not. My parent's perspective is that the renewal of the vows should not pose as our actual wedding.  This, I agree with.  However, executionally, we are having a hard time agreeing on what is appropriate for a renewal of the vows and what is not. For example, my parents feel that it is inappropriate for me to have any attendents, or if I do have attendents they should not walk down the isle or wear matching dresses.  They do not feel like it is appropriate for me to walk down the isle and the groom to enter from the side. They do not feel like my fiance and I should have a first dance at the reception. Most of their objections are not clear, contratictory and subjective, for example, they do not think i should wear a wedding dress, but they do not care if I wear a long white dress. I am having a really hard time navigating through these objections. Firstly, because I do not think that many of these details matter. Who cares where the groomsmen enter from? I understand philosophically what they are getting at and feel there are reasonable things to acheive it. For example, stating clearly on invitations that it is a renewal of vows and not asking for gifts.  I want to repect their wishes and their financial contribution but if they are going to dictate the smallest details like what kind of dresses the attendents should wear, or where they enter from, when that has no traditional significance or affect on them financially, it is not worth the stress. I feel like my parents objections are fueled by an emotional displeasure of me not having a traditional wedding. And they are creating a line of what is appropriate for a renewal of vows vs. a wedding when that line does not exist. Has anyone here dealt with anything like this?  I want to approach everything logically and reasonably but am having a hard time doing it. Thanks!
Posted by KNFinch[/QUOTE]

ETA: Internet issues..

I agree with everyone else.

Also, why are you having a vow renewal a year later? Is it because you cannot afford to have a reception the same day?

AddieCake

I agree with your parents. 

lyndausvi

I agree with you parents.

You can have a spotlight dance if you want.   I would not publicly call it a first dance, but secretly you can call it that if you want.

lennonkdc

Your parents are 100%, their lines are not aribtrary. They are not lashing out at you for not having a tradtional wedding, they are keeping you from dressing up a VR in the trappings of a 'Wedding', 

What you seem to want is to have it both ways- a JOP wedding now, and a big fancy wedding in a year. You can do one or the other but not both. 

If you do decide to go the JOP/VR route (while following ALL of your parents above listed recomendations) you should also turn down any prewedding parties, since they are for brides, and you will be a wife. 

happyfor25

Like others have asked, why have the JOP wedding rather than waiting until next year and having the wedding you really want?

KatWAG

Your parents are correct.

And I know this wasnt mentioned but I would also add that a bridal shower and registering for gifts would be inappropriate for your vow renewal

Knottie_22382049

Your parents are 100% correct. A vow renewal is not a wedding you do not need attendants, a wedding gown, first dances, or anything that says you are a bride since you will already be a wife. 

[Deleted User]

Your parents are right. No bridal party, no bachelorette, no bridal shower, no first dance, no bouquet toss, no wedding gown. Those are for weddings. This is not a wedding.

AddieCake

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:7d75b942-f1d2-460f-9c7f-091b4d0714a1">Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]I just cannot wrap my head around this idea of planning out a vow renewal before you even have your wedding. It makes no sense to me. 
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]
This, too. It's like, just have the bigger event and be done with it. If you're planning it already, just have it and only it. What's the point of not having people there for the first round so you can turn around and have people there only a year later?

Kate61487

Ditto PP.

A good test for wether it's appropriate or not is "does it have wedding/bride in the name?"  Bridal shower? nope, you're a wife not a bride.  Wedding party? nope, this is a VR not a wedding.  Wedding gown? nope, again - not a wedding. 

Cutting of the cake?  sure.  I mean don't make a HUGE deal out of it, but at most events the guest of honor cuts the cake (Birthdays, etc.) so that's okay.  Opening the dance floor?  sure.  It's not a FIRST dance because undoubtedly you and your husband will have danced at some point in the prior year, but you can be the first ones on the dance floor and have the DJ invite everyone else out during that first song.

Walking down the aisle - I see their point on this, but wouldn't judge it personally.  I mean, you have to walk into the room somehow right?  But the feel of 'giving away' is gone b/c you're already married.  I think you and your H walking down the aisle together would be most appropriate.

Knottie_22382102

Wait a year. Have the wedding you want.

All your dilemmas = resolved.

misshart00

Come back OP. Why do they never come back? :[

daria24

I do not understand how you want a private wedding, but then want to do a VR in a year, complete with attendants. Why not just do all this one time? 

Attendants are not appropriate for a VR. I would be very upset if I was expected to purchase a uniform for a do-over ceremony, and was not even invited to the actual ceremony.

However I think it's fine to do a spotlight dance with your H. Just don't call it your first dance. I've been to many 50th anniversary parties where the couple does a spotlight dance and I think it's sweet. 

AddieCake

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:58da13a8-5f56-4e29-a84a-33b256af8a24">Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]On a totally unrelated note, while I agree it is not a "first dance", I think the constant comments on these threads about how "obviously you will have danced with your husband already" is super comical. I've been with my husband for almost 10 years, married for 4. We have danced exactly ONE time in our entire relationship and that was our private "first dance" on our honeymoon.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]
Unless you count naked swaying in our living room the night we got this house as dancing, my husband and I have never danced, either. 

GoofyAssChick

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:58da13a8-5f56-4e29-a84a-33b256af8a24">Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]On a totally unrelated note, while I agree it is not a "first dance", I think the constant comments on these threads about how "obviously you will have danced with your husband already" is super comical. I've been with my husband for almost 10 years, married for 4. We have danced exactly ONE time in our entire relationship and that was our private "first dance" on our honeymoon.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

I thought we were the only couple that has never danced together before.  We're going on almost four years together.  As we've discussed a first dance for the wedding we tried to do it in the living room with music but ended up in a fit of laughter and just making out instead.  If we had our way we would skip dancing all together for the wedding.  So we're having a bluegrass band.  I guantee there will be some Elaine Benes dancing going in up in there. 

Peledreamsofrain

Listen to your parents, they are correct, and trying to keep you from looking like a selfcentered primadonna.

lisabeats

I agree with all of the above. I especially feel that if a VR is what you really want, it should be as simple as possible given it's 1 year. My grandparents renewed their vows at 50 and 60 years, and my Gramma wore the same simple yellow dress both times. The only "wedding-ish" things that happened were that it was in a Church (the same priest who married them 50 years before and a close family friend, so obviously that made it special), and for the 60th they had my two youngest cousins walk Gramma in, more so because she needed help than anything else.  There were never any gifts, it was just my aunts, uncles, and cousins in attendance, and certainly never any pre-parties or anything. I think we went to their house afterward for lunch, like we do most weekends.

To me, that's what a VR is. If that's all the "specialness" they had at such milestone anniversaries, I think a 1 yr should me as simple as can be. If you're set on more of the aspects that occur within a WEDDING, then just have your wedding be that way.

PS my grandparents are the bomb and I love them to the moon and back!

MoonlightSilver

I cannot figure out why anyone would go through the effort of throwing a vow renewal celebration just one short year after getting married. Why don't you just wait to get married until your renewal date?

In general, your parents are right. No attendents, no wedding gown, no "firsts," etc. Your invitations should definitely say it's a vow renewal, but you should NOT mention gifts at all (not even to say don't bring any). It's inappropriate to mention gifts unless someone directly asks you. 

Knottie_22382494

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:a0cb2d0b-d909-4525-b968-5daf29a89537">Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention : Unless you count naked swaying in our living room the night we got this house as dancing, my husband and I have never danced, either. 
Posted by AddieL73[/QUOTE]

You just made me LOL at work!!

itzMS

I've been to something exactly like you described. Couple was married by JOP a year a go (she was preggers and needed insurance). They had a PPD on their 1-year anniversary. It was so awkward and felt so contrived and gift-grabby.

Adults choose to get married for whatever reason at whatever time in whatever fashion. Your one wedding day is your one day.

Kate61487

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:a0cb2d0b-d909-4525-b968-5daf29a89537">Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention : <strong>Unless you count naked swaying in our living room the night we got this house</strong> as dancing, my husband and I have never danced, either. 
Posted by AddieL73[/QUOTE]

Ha!  This made me giggle.  Sorry Stage and Addie and others - I shouldn't have assumed.  H and I aren't huge dancers either but we always do at least one slow dance at weddings, company christmas party, etc.  So I extrapolated.

happyfor25

I agree that the dance is fine.  At our 25th anniversary vow renewal 3 weeks ago, ,my H and I danced together and we danced with our children to open the dance floor.  Of course, after a few drinks I also danced with every one of our guests!

KNFinch

Thank you all for your perspective.  I appreciate it.  We cannot wait a year to have the marriage and ceremony combined for personal reasons connected to his involvement in the military.  Vaugue, I know, I'm sorry. We cannot have it in the next few months because we live out of state, and I have no vacation time at my work until I have a year logged.

My intention is not to have a PPD day, although I can see why it would be perceived that way. We just wanted to have a ceremony with our friends and extended family because we legitimately can't now and we legitimately can't wait. 

I really do appreciate all of your opinions and how unified they are.  It sounds like the right thing to do is maybe have some sort of celebration but forgo the 'weddingness' of it all.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:58da13a8-5f56-4e29-a84a-33b256af8a24">Re:JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]On a totally unrelated note, while I agree it is not a "first dance", I think the constant comments on these threads about how "obviously you will have danced with your husband already" is super comical. I've been with my husband for almost 10 years, married for 4. We have danced exactly ONE time in our entire relationship and that was our private "first dance" on our honeymoon.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

It's funny you wrote this.  DH and I have only danced once together and that was our wedding.

winelover123

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:e45081ed-f8c2-4655-b9d6-44cfaaad8c55">Re: JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]Thank you all for your perspective.  I appreciate it.  We cannot wait a year to have the marriage and ceremony combined for personal reasons connected to his involvement in the military.  Vaugue, I know, I'm sorry. We cannot have it in the next few months because we live out of state, and I have no vacation time at my work until I have a year logged. My intention is not to have a PPD day, although I can see why it would be perceived that way. We just wanted to have a ceremony with our friends and extended family because we legitimately can't now and we legitimately can't wait.  <strong>I really do appreciate all of your opinions and how unified they are.  It sounds like the right thing to do is maybe have some sort of celebration but forgo the 'weddingness' of it all.</strong>
Posted by KNFinch[/QUOTE]

OP, I'd like to commend you on how well you are taking the advice given. A celebration party sounds lovely. Have fun and congrats on your upcoming wedding!

Kate61487

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_jop-and-renewal-of-vows-etiquette-and-points-of-contention?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e38a5741-1a9f-445b-b43d-db41187e831bPost:e45081ed-f8c2-4655-b9d6-44cfaaad8c55">Re: JOP and renewal of vows etiquette and points of contention</a>:
[QUOTE]Thank you all for your perspective.  I appreciate it.  We cannot wait a year to have the marriage and ceremony combined for personal reasons connected to his involvement in the military.  Vaugue, I know, I'm sorry. We cannot have it in the next few months because we live out of state, and I have no vacation time at my work until I have a year logged. My intention is not to have a PPD day, although I can see why it would be perceived that way. We just wanted to have a ceremony with our friends and extended family because <strong>we legitimately can't now and we legitimately can't wait</strong>.  I really do appreciate all of your opinions and how unified they are.  <strong>It sounds like the right thing to do is maybe have some sort of celebration but forgo the 'weddingness' of it all.
</strong>Posted by KNFinch[/QUOTE]

I'm glad to hear, based on the second bolded, that you're taking in what we're saying.  I'm sure you'll have a lovely celebration and it sounds like your parents will help be a beacon to keep it on track.

But I just have to say the first bolded is just untrue.  No one is forcing you to get married right now and not wait a year.  Perhaps there are significant benefits to doing it now (higher pay while he's serving, insurance coverage, etc.)  But postponing the receipt of those benefits to have the wedding you want is one of the tough choices we talk about on here all the time.  being married is not a requirement to serve in the military; no one is holding a gun to your head saying you CANNOT wait.  Likewise vacation time is not required to have a larger wedding.  It takes one day (honestly just a few hours) either way; whether it's at the JOP or with extended family in attendance.  You'll have an easier time accepting the things you "don't get to do" if you really step back and recognize that this is a voluntary choice you are making.