Pitbulls and small children

TheSaltyPeanut

Maybe this would be better in an "I judge" thread :

A close friend of H and I recently informed us that they were getting a new dog.  A pitbull.  An abused pitbull found tied to the side of the road left for dead.  The friend and his GF have 2 children together... 2 and 4. 

I do confess, I know nothing about pitbulls besides a handful of incidents I've witnessed at the dogpark.  For example - a pitbull and a lab were playing and all of a sudden the pitbull went nuts and bit the lab in the throat and kept diving for it's throat after it unlatched.  The owner was literally kicking it to get it off the other dog.

Thoughts on pitbulls?  Would you ever own one with small kids? 

Also, H and I are kind of torn weather or not to voice our concerns to them.  I know I'll probably hear "stay out of it, it's none of our business" but one of the kids is our god child.  The friend just told H last night how nice the dog was, etc.  I honestly don't think they have any idea what MAY happen when deciding to take in an abused pitbull.  Do you think we should say anything?

FutureMrsTR

I wouldn't leave any small child alone with any dog.  I'm not one to stereotype pit bulls as always aggressive either, but with an abused pitbull?  You have NO idea what kind of personality you're getting, that could be extremely dangerous.

I'd probably have to say something, but be prepared for them to brush you off.

aragx6

I would definitely not recommend saying anything. It's not as if they can be ignorant of pit bulls' reputations.

I would absolutely, 100% own a pit bull with children. I am not certain I would bring an abused dog with tendencies towards agression into my home with children, however.

I don't see what good could come of you saying anything to them.

[Deleted User]

Well I would be concerned about bringing ANY dog around small children, not to mention an adopted one who may not be used to children at all.  If they were close friends, I might remind them to be careful introducing the dog to the children and supervise it carefully, but it's not like you can tell them to not do it and expect them to listen.   

jnic0319

FSIL has a pitbull, it is the most loving and wonderful dog ever.  It all depends how they are trained.  I think often pitbulls get a bad rep.  However, I do think this is a dangerous situation.  Regardless of the breed, it is a rescue dog brought in to a home with small children.  My family did this, and now my sister will always have the bite scars on her face to remember our poor decision.  If they want to get a pet, they should get a puppy that they can train from the start.  I'm all for rescuing animals, but not with 2 small children and no history on the pet.

laurenclaire1386

That sounds like a terrible idea, and I'd probably say just that. No, it's not really any of your business, but I'd have a hard time not saying anything. I know that my experience with pit bulls isn't indicative of the entire breed, but every one I've ever been around has eventually mauled someone. My aunt and uncle had one and it tried to eat their neighbor. My brother's old roommate had one and it bit my brother in the face. He's got a scar across his nose and it kinda makes him look like a pirate. Abused animals are unpredictable and unless they keep it away from the kids at all times, I don't see how this could end well.

baystateapple

UGGGGGHHHH...I do not envy your position at all.

I'm all for the idea of "there aren't bad dogs, there are only bad/neglectful owners", but this sounds like a recipe for disaster.  There are reasons why petfinder.com and other adoption websites usually won't allow families with young children or cats to adopt pit bulls.  Pits can be trained to be wonderful dogs, but an abused pit?  That doesn't sound good.

I would hope that your friends are at least smart enough to never let the young children near the dog or let them play unsupervised, AT ALL, until both dog and babies are quite a bit older.  As to whether or not you should say something...well, I would, but that's me.  I got attacked by an untrained pit a few months ago, so I'm wary of them by nature now.

Brie2010

I would keep my mouth shut.  Pits can be absolutely wonderful dogs--even formerly neglected ones.  I worked at a shelter and there were some absolutely incredible rehabbed pits there that changed my mind about the breed.

I think it is ridiculous to be anti-pit.  Yeah, there are bad ones, but there are bad dogs in EVERY breed.  And if you want to be specific, pits have been badly bred for dog-on-dog aggression, not dog-on-human aggression, which is why they may have reacted to the dog in the dog part.

All dogs need to be carefully supervised with young kids, pits or not.  Kids need to learn how to behave around dogs at a very young age--you don't take the dog's toy, you don't touch the dog when it's sleeping, you don't mess with its paws, etc.   I would submit that most pit attacks are the result of crappy, irresponsible owners and not necessarily inherently bad dogs.

SheDiva4

I would, if the parent want to be crazy fine, but they could be potentially endangering their children. 

A good friend was engaged to a guy who promptly came home with 5 pitbulls which he wanted to keep.  They were rescued fighting dogs and she had a newborn.  After one dog chewed through the drywall to get to the bedroom where the baby was she made him get rid of them.

georgia_bride09

I know it's more the owner at fault than the dog in most cases, but I would always worry that the dog would bite someone.

http://www.macon.com/2010/06/22/1170995/dog-bites-bibb-county-boy-in-the.html

*BeachBride0410*

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:2ebddd3c-b787-4b98-94d0-079fb5b93655">Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]Maybe this would be better in an "I judge" thread : A close friend of H and I recently informed us that they were getting a new dog.  A pitbull.  <strong>An abused pitbull found tied to the side of the road left for dead.  The friend and his GF have 2 children together... 2 and 4.</strong>  I do confess, I know nothing about pitbulls besides a handful of incidents I've witnessed at the dogpark.  For example - a pitbull and a lab were playing and all of a sudden the pitbull went nuts and bit the lab in the throat and kept diving for it's throat after it unlatched.  The owner was literally kicking it to get it off the other dog. <strong>Thoughts on pitbulls?  Would you ever own one with small kids?</strong>  Also, H and I are kind of torn weather or not to voice our concerns to them.  I know I'll probably hear "stay out of it, it's none of our business" but one of the kids is our god child.  The friend just told H last night how nice the dog was, etc.  I honestly don't think they have any idea what MAY happen when deciding to take in an abused pitbull.  Do you think we should say anything?
Posted by TheSaltyPeanut[/QUOTE]


I actually have a rescue dog who is a lab/pitbull mix.  DH got him when he was only a couple weeks old, he is now going on 3.  He is the best dog we have ever had and he is AMAZING around kids.  We have a niece who is 18mo old and just the other day they were playing together. 
That being said, we feel we are very lucky because he was ours at such a young age that any abuse he might have experienced has not affect him.  In your situation with the dog being abused and left on the side of the road for dead, I do not think I could allow it to be near my young children.  Some people think that pitbulls are violent at birth.....truly their environment and the way they are cared for affects their behavior drastically.  But honestly I think that is with any breed of dog.  I hate the bad rep pitbulls get. 

TheSaltyPeanut

It's really weird because they were not looking into getting a dog or a puppy but then all of a sudden this "opportunity" presents itself and it just seems like they rushed into it before even thinking about it.  The dog is currently staying with the friend's boss until they buy the stuff and prepare for it.

I agree about not letting children alone with any dog!

squirrly

FFS.  So, if it was an abused German Shephard or Doberman you wouldn't think twice, but the pitbull you have concerns about?  Is the knot playing a trick on me?  Because I KNOW there's a knottie who has posted about pitbulls and children in the past, repeatedly, and I know it's not SaltyPeanut.

We have two dogs.  A super awesome sweet Boxer and a Cairn Terrier.  Having seen both of them around babies and small children, I KNOW they know better than to hurt a child.  And, I still wouldn't leave them alone.  Animals are animals - something can set them off and they can hurt you.  Children, being children, do things we'd never do - like poke a dog in the eye - and now you've got a problem. 

In chemistry class they teach you not to put volitile substances together, right?  Same here.  But not because the dog is a pitbull - because it's a DOG, and even moreso because the dog has been abused.  It's wonderful that they want to give the dog a good home.  But, that doing so with small children in the house is dangerous for everybody, including the dog, and it isn't fair to anyone. 

Just to reiterate once again, though, the breed of the dog isn't the point.  Any breed can hurt you. 

AmoroAgain

Breed means very little.  It's all about the way they are trained.  I grew up around dogs my whole life and never had an incident until a male cocker spaniel (yeah, THAT'S a scary dog) went absolutely crazy while I was feeding him.  We were dogsitting for the owner for a few days.  He wouldn't let me around him, and my parents ending up putting the dog outside until the owner came back.

pinkpinot

My good friends have 2 pit mixes, both rescue dogs they found on Craig's List.  They have 2 children and she is KU with #3. The dogs are both female and at certain points they have extremely viscous fights.  My friends have talked to us about the fights and I know they are upset the dogs aren't getting along.  Anyhoo I was over there on Saturday and a fight broke out between the 2 dogs.  It was insane.  I was so afraid.  I was standing on her kitchen counter with her daughter shaking because of what was happening.  After the fight was broken up, both dogs were covered in blood with chunks missing from their faces.  FI & I will NEVER go to their house again and I think they are so irresponsible.  I am not an expert on dogs, I have no idea what they should do but my God what a terrible life for those dogs to live and a horrible thing for her children to see.

Brie2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:084b102a-b49c-4f68-980d-f0d7844f2d2d">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]I know it's more the owner at fault than the dog in most cases, but I would always worry that the dog would bite someone. <a href="http://www.macon.com/2010/06/22/1170995/dog-bites-bibb-county-boy-in-the.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.macon.com/2010/06/22/1170995/dog-bites-bibb-county-boy-in-the.html</a>
Posted by georgia_bride09[/QUOTE]

See, you see a lot of stories like this in the news that rile up all this anti-pit bull sentiment, when the blame in this case should firmly be on the owner for leaving his dog unsupervised and off-leash.

jasmineh7777

If they are adopting from a reputable shelter, the dog has probably had aggression testing done. If not, they better make sure it gets done before they get the dog. They need to make sure it doesn't resource gaurd food or toys, and can handle a bit of pain, like ear pulling and pinching. If need be, they need to find a group that can administer a "stress test," and some states require this for pit bulls and other "high-risk" breeds,

I don't think the breed is the problem. The problem is bringing a dog into a home with children without knowing how it will react. From what I know, american bull terriers (pitbulls) can have a tendency towrad dog aggression, but not necessarilty aggression towards people.

My good friend has a pit bull puppy. They are socializing her, and she is a doll. She plays with my dogs, and is very amiable. I wouldn't worry about her being with children.  Acutally, several of my friends have pit bulls, and I've never seen them act aggresively.

Now, my Australian Shepherd was adopted from an abusive situation. Her breed doesn't typically have problems but we worked through food gaurding and some dog aggression. We could do this because we don't have kids. It really just depends on the dog. Sometimes fear can prompt aggression, and can be worked through, but definitely not with a 2 and 4 year old in the home..
Whoa, holy novel. Sorry.

AmoroAgain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:fec2db1e-e9fb-450c-afa3-8180d8000e14">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]FFS.  So, if it was an abused German Shephard or Doberman you wouldn't think twice, but the pitbull you have concerns about?  Is the knot playing a trick on me?  Because I KNOW there's a knottie who has posted about pitbulls and children in the past, repeatedly, and I know it's not SaltyPeanut. We have two dogs.  A super awesome sweet Boxer and a Cairn Terrier.  Having seen both of them around babies and small children, I KNOW they know better than to hurt a child.  And, I still wouldn't leave them alone.  Animals are animals - something can set them off and they can hurt you.  Children, being children, do things we'd never do - like poke a dog in the eye - and now you've got a problem.  In chemistry class they teach you not to put volitile substances together, right?  Same here.  But not because the dog is a pitbull - because it's a DOG, and even moreso because the dog has been abused.  It's wonderful that they want to give the dog a good home.  But, that doing so with small children in the house is dangerous for everybody, including the dog, and it isn't fair to anyone.  Just to reiterate once again, though, the breed of the dog isn't the point.  Any breed can hurt you. 
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]
*thumbs up* I agree with you completely.

aragx6

The only dog I've ever been bitten by was a lab -- and everyone thinks of those as great family pets.

[Deleted User]

i would never own small kids.

pit bulls get a bad rap, but i wouldn't suggest any dog that had been abused to someone with small kids.

waltzingmatilda13

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:c3a93193-0722-4d0d-8957-5539ee9c2adc">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]I would definitely not recommend saying anything. It's not as if they can be ignorant of pit bulls' reputations.<strong> I would absolutely, 100% own a pit bull with children. I am not certain I would bring an abused dog with tendencies towards agression into my home with children, however. I don't see what good could come of you saying anything to them.</strong>
Posted by aragx6[/QUOTE]

This. I know someone who has a gorgeous, adorably sweet pit bull. It all depends on the nature/behavior of the dog and not the breed. But an abandoned dog with possible abuse just does not sit well with me.

jayjoe

I live on a block with 7 pitbulls. All of them have kids in the families. All of them are fine. i grew up with pitbulls in my neighborhood. There has never been a problem. It angers and frustrates me when it comes to the reputation they have especially when so much of what i read in papers is wrong. I would absolutely own a pittie and i am probably going to in the near future. The dog my dog is in love with (she lives across the street) is a pittie and a total sweetheart.

WIth that being said, regardless of breed, any rescue with aggressive tendencies should be watched very carefully. Any dog, no matter how sweet, should be watched around babies/children. There have been quite a few cases where golden retrievers have mauled kids. As a matter of fact, my cousin, a vet tech, had 7 surgeries on her face when a GR, unprovoked, grabbed her face.

I would keep my mouth shut. It is NONE of your business. I dont have kids yet but already people have said "oh, you better watch your dog with your baby" and it makes me want to punch them in the face! Do people really think i'm gonna leave my baby on the floor with a hamburger stapled to its face? It makes me feel like my intelligence is being questioned. I'm sure your friends know the risks.

FutureMrsTR

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:fec2db1e-e9fb-450c-afa3-8180d8000e14">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]FFS.  So, if it was an abused German Shephard or Doberman you wouldn't think twice, but the pitbull you have concerns about?   
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

I don't know if you're addressing everyone collectively or just SP, but I would have concerns about any abused dog, no matter the breed, size, or whatever.  And as I said before, I wouldn't leave any dog <em>alone</em> with a small child, abused or not.  I just wouldn't bring an abused dog into a household with small children.

sarah0725

I'm torn. Generally I agree that pitbulls get a bad rap, and I have a lot of sympathy for the dogs and for the people who rescue them. We won't ever get one, because FI is against them (a pit bull once bit his uncle in the face), but I can definitely see both sides.

Also, if they take that dog to the shelter, it will probably be put down, especially if it's in bad shape, considering the overcrowding in shelters and the fact that so many shelters are already full of pit bulls. It would be hard to find someone willing to rehab an at-risk dog like that.

That said, though, I think mixing an abused, unknown dog with young children is a truly terrible idea. Does the dog have scars that look like fight scars? They'll never know when that dog might snap. In your case, I would probably consider saying something.

baystateapple

I agree -- any dog can be a problem if it's untrained.

My cousin (21 years old) had her lower lip torn off her face by a dachsund.  A DACHSUND.  They were able to stitch it back on, but she needed plastic surgery, and she still has an intense scar on her lower face.

squirrly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:210537c4-2c63-4380-a674-4ffea48c6d42">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pitbulls and small children : I don't know if you're addressing everyone collectively or just SP, but I would have concerns about any abused dog, no matter the breed, size, or whatever.  And as I said before, I wouldn't leave any dog alone with a small child, abused or not.  I just wouldn't bring an abused dog into a household with small children.
Posted by FutureMrsTR[/QUOTE]

That was directed to SP.  The OP is written such that the concern is about the breed and not much else.  And I find that just a touch ridiculous.

[Deleted User]

I think it's a horrible idea, not so much because it's a pit but because of the abuse. Grown, abused dogs are so much more unpredictable, and to have one around kids that age just seems irresponsible to me.

I will say, though, that I don't care for pitbulls and don't have a high opinion of them. After working at a vet's office, I've come to not trust pits, rottweilers, and dobermans, and I love rotties so that sucks. They were consistently the worst, most violent dogs that we saw. Granted, it was a vet's office so they aren't always on their best behavior, but it's all the personal experience I have to go on for pitbulls.
 
But regardless, I wouldn't leave a small child alone with any dog, especially a big one. That's just asking for trouble.

georgia_bride09

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pitbulls and small children : See, you see a lot of stories like this in the news that rile up all this anti-pit bull sentiment, when the blame in this case should firmly be on the owner for leaving his dog unsupervised and off-leash.
Posted by Brie2010[/QUOTE]

I agree that, especially in this case, it's the owner's fault, as it usually is. I didn't post the article to be anti-pitbull, I just happened to see it RIGHT before SP posted this. I also agree that any breed can bite; my aunt used to have a chihuahua that was very mean and would bite anyone, and a friend in HS had the meanest dog I've ever met and she was a Jack Russell and they had to keep her locked in the bedroom when people were over.

mandysmear

I feel like this argument has been had on E before.  I don't think it ended well. 

aragx6

Baystate, I've heard before of dachsunds with aggression issues. Little dogs like that tend to think they own people. That can make them dangerous.

jasmineh7777

Also, how do they know it was abused? Tied to a fence = abandoned, but not necessarily abused. Are there scars?
Pretty much any rescue dog has been abandonded. That doesn't mean that the dog will have aggression problems. It all depends on the individual dog.