NWR - FI's family are hoarders

KellyBrian2013

Frankly, it sounds like your FI is very unwilling to compromise. That bothers me. Why do you have to risk your health just because he doesn't want to drive by himself or tell his parents "no"? Why doesn't he make more of a point of sticking up for your dietary needs to his family? I'm sorry, but if my family chose to ignore some dietary restriction H has to the point that there was NOTHING for him to eat, I would be telling them "Sorry, we're not joining you until you provide an adequate meal for my partner, too."

emeejeeayen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:0d5fce7e-7647-4232-bd88-12d4607b5a33">Re:NWR FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]Frankly, it sounds like your FI is very unwilling to compromise. That bothers me. Why do you have to risk your health just because he doesn't want to drive by himself or tell his parents "no"? Why doesn't he make more of a point of sticking up for your dietary needs to his family? I'm sorry, but if my family chose to ignore some dietary restriction H has to the point that there was NOTHING for him to eat, I would be telling them "Sorry, we're not joining you until you provide an adequate meal for my partner, too."
Posted by KellyBrian2013[/QUOTE]

<div>His family does not simply address issues maturely. They sit in silence. They let them fester. It's quite joyous. </div>

emeejeeayen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:2b3dac3e-efc1-4220-93ff-657ffa3fb30a">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : Not. possible. or make him put up with his crazy family sober. If you can't eat any of the food, liquid dinner is your only option.
Posted by Liatris2010[/QUOTE]

<div>For serious.</div>

StephBeanWed61502

Emee, I swear I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but between your recent post on CC about the whole "if I didn't mean to hurt your feelings I don't have to apologize when I actually do hurt your feelings" thing and this insanity with his family (seriously, nevermind about your vegetarianism, WHO IN THE FLUCK REPEATEDLY attends functions at which food that could kill him is served?), you should look into pre-marital counseling.  It's obvious your FI has ZERO models of how to behave in successful relationships in his life to look to for reference, and he's just not acting the way a good partner in a successful partnership should.  (Please note, I'm saying this as someone who's relationship was helped enormously by pre-marital counseling, so I know of what I speak here.)

KellyBrian2013

In Response to Re:NWR FI's family are hoarders:[QUOTE]His family does not simply address issues maturely. They sit in silence. They let them fester. It's quite joyous.nbsp; Posted by emeejeeayen[/QUOTE]

Then stop allowing them to get away with it by playing along! Seriously, if you won't make your FI listen to and honestly consider your concerns and you continue to do things "because that's the way they are", you have ZERO room to complain. Something has to change, and it's certainly not going to be his family, clearly.

emeejeeayen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:4d27254e-599d-4182-9579-bdabfa785030">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]Emee, I swear I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but between your recent post on CC about the whole "if I didn't mean to hurt your feelings I don't have to apologize when I actually do hurt your feelings" thing and this insanity with his family (seriously, nevermind about your vegetarianism, WHO IN THE FLUCK REPEATEDLY attends functions at which food that could kill him is served?), you should look into pre-marital counseling.  It's obvious your FI has ZERO models of how to behave in successful relationships in his life to look to for reference, and he's just not acting the way a good partner in a successful partnership should.  (Please note, I'm saying this as someone who's relationship was helped enormously by pre-marital counseling, so I know of what I speak here.)
Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]

<div>Oh, we've been to counseling. It helps, and it doesn't. He's made a tremendous amount of progress in our relationship, honestly. I'm not sure if it helps to explain, but we were BEST FRIENDS before we started dating, so I have more patience with many of his flaws than I think I would otherwise. </div>

jessicabessica

Has he been to individual counseling?  It seems like it would be useful for him to talk through some of the family stuff with a pro. 

emeejeeayen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:e0d32865-ff40-46c1-b5ed-75ea9d3afa7f">Re:NWR FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:NWR FI's family are hoarders: Then stop allowing them to get away with it by playing along! Seriously, if you won't make your FI listen to and honestly consider your concerns and you continue to do things "because that's the way they are", you have ZERO room to complain. Something has to change, and it's certainly not going to be his family, clearly.
Posted by KellyBrian2013[/QUOTE]

<div>Well, I stopped going when we lived in NYC because of it. It was easier to get out of because I worked 12-16 hour days and could always use my job as an excuse. Here I just sit around doing nada but looking for a job, so I have less excuses. </div><div>
</div><div>But also I said in a previous comment in this thread: "<span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:11.818181991577148px;background-color:#ffffff;">Anyway, it looks like FI knows it's a bad idea. I'm a little worried, but he says he's going to hold out telling his mom as long as possible that we're not going in hopes that she </span><em style="background-color:#ffffff;border:0px;font-size:11.818181991577148px;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;">will</em><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:11.818181991577148px;background-color:#ffffff;"> actually clean (he's going to request photos?), but that we won't go unless the apartment is legit clean."</span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:11.818181991577148px;background-color:#ffffff;">
</span></div><div><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.818181991577148px;">So, it's sort of a non-issue at this point. The only issue I foresee is that his mom sends us photos of an unclean house that she belives is clean and then we have to address the delusion aspects of things. </span></font></div><div><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.818181991577148px;">
</span></font></div><div><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.818181991577148px;">And I mean, who doesn't like to complain about hoarders? Who doesn't like to WATCh the show Hoarders? ;) </span></font></div>

StephBeanWed61502

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:4ac7ae09-54c2-4808-993f-6bc8086371e1">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : Oh, we've been to counseling. It helps, and it doesn't. He's made a tremendous amount of progress in our relationship, honestly. I'm not sure if it helps to explain, but we were BEST FRIENDS before we started dating, so I have more patience with many of his flaws than I think I would otherwise. 
Posted by emeejeeayen[/QUOTE]

Missing the point, party of you.

You're marrying this guy.  You're about to become his family.  And you KNOW (from observation and experience) that he does not handle conflict appropriately, or at all.  You also know he will put the preferences of his family of origin above BOTH his own personal safety and health and your own preferences, safety, and health.  Not offending his mother and aunt matters more to him than protecting himself from a deathly allergy, black mold, and asthma.  Not offending his mother and aunt matters more to him than protecting you and your dog from mold, and sticking up for your dietary preferences.  And?  As an added bonus?  He feels no need to apologize to you for hurting your feelings as long as he "didn't mean to." 

You have apparently gone so far as to go to therapy with him, and <em>he's still doing all of these things</em>.  He may be a great friend, and he may have come a long way from whatever absurdedly dysfunctional place he started from, but frankly, from the picture you've painted here, he doesn't sound like he's going to make a particularly good husband.</div>

zantster

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:16fc483b-b04a-45cd-b43e-e6d8a52760d0">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : Missing the point, party of you. You're marrying this guy.  You're about to become his family.  And you KNOW (from observation and experience) that he does not handle conflict appropriately, or at all.  You also know he will put the preferences of his family of origin above BOTH his own personal safety and health and your own preferences, safety, and health.  Not offending his mother and aunt matters more to him than protecting himself from a deathly allergy, black mold, and asthma.  Not offending his mother and aunt matters more to him than protecting you and your dog from mold, and sticking up for your dietary preferences.  And?  As an added bonus?  He feels no need to apologize to you for hurting your feelings as long as he "didn't mean to."  You have apparently gone so far as to go to therapy with him, and he's still doing all of these things .  He may be a great friend, and he may have come a long way from whatever absurdedly dysfunctional place he started from, but frankly, from the picture you've painted here, he doesn't sound like he's going to make a particularly good husband.
Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]
This! But Ouch!  That is what I call a stinging comment.  I know the truth hurts and sometimes people need tough love and all that jazz.  And I can't disagree with you Steph.  Folks like you who don't mince words are just as necessary as the gentler folks. Especially if the message gets through. And I know it's all to be helpful to OP but as they say where I'm from...Dayummm!  That's like getting a spanking with no belt. Whew!

StephBeanWed61502

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:0c3b1bea-c2a6-4b46-ba56-4409d7a4b31e">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : This! But Ouch!  That is what I call a stinging comment.  I know the truth hurts and sometimes people need tough love and all that jazz.  And I can't disagree with you Steph.  Folks like you who don't mince words are just as necessary as the gentler folks. Especially if the message gets through. And I know it's all to be helpful to OP but as they say where I'm from...Dayummm!  That's like getting a spanking with no belt. Whew!
Posted by zantster[/QUOTE]

That wasn't even my "mean."  I mean, really, if OP can't handle the reality of her situation laid out in black and white, that's about her and her relationship, not my presentation skills.</div>

emeejeeayen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:16fc483b-b04a-45cd-b43e-e6d8a52760d0">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : Missing the point, party of you. You're marrying this guy.  You're about to become his family.  And you KNOW (from observation and experience) that he does not handle conflict appropriately, or at all.  You also know he will put the preferences of his family of origin above BOTH his own personal safety and health and your own preferences, safety, and health.  Not offending his mother and aunt matters more to him than protecting himself from a deathly allergy, black mold, and asthma.  Not offending his mother and aunt matters more to him than protecting you and your dog from mold, and sticking up for your dietary preferences.  And?  As an added bonus?  He feels no need to apologize to you for hurting your feelings as long as he "didn't mean to."  You have apparently gone so far as to go to therapy with him, and he's still doing all of these things .  He may be a great friend, and he may have come a long way from whatever absurdedly dysfunctional place he started from, but frankly, from the picture you've painted here, he doesn't sound like he's going to make a particularly good husband.
Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]

<div>I don't think it's very easy to discern the quality of a relationship from what one person in that relationship posts on a message board. If I can't come to complain about Hoarding on The Knot message boards, <em>WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO</em>?? </div><div>
</div><div>Cheers to you, your S/O and your families for being issue free, though. Golf clap for real because that's hard to achieve. </div><div>
</div><div>But, so, I just want to be clear that it is his Aunt's house we would be going to for Thanksgiving, and that FI does not ever speak to her on his own.  Despite feeling obligated to attend family events, he is not close with his extended family in the slightest.  His mom wants us to go because she hates going on her own partially because the elderly Jewish relatives are a bit racist (which is always a blast - she's black), and we're a nice buffer. </div><div>
</div><div>Also, I just want to point out it's difficult to tell someone they're lying when they haven't had a chance to prove it yet. His mom is adament that she'll clean, but we both know she's lying or that her idea of clean will not be the same as ours. As I'd mentioned in previous responses, since I wrote the initial post, FI has made it clear that we will not be going unless his mom sends him photos of an entirely clean apartment. And I'm fine with that. </div><div>
</div><div>As for my most on CC, I wrote an update a day or two ago that we talked it out, and he apologized. And I would assume that all of us here on The Knot are aware that this is in fact a message board, and it's difficult to get the whole story from one PMS-driven vent. </div><div>
</div><div>Now, if anyone would like to join me, I will be watching episodes of Hoarders and playing this game: <a href="http://community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?w=265899&as=119137&d=588734" rel="nofollow">http://community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?w=265899&as=119137&d=588734</a></div>

emeejeeayen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:0c3b1bea-c2a6-4b46-ba56-4409d7a4b31e">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : This! But Ouch!  That is what I call a stinging comment.  I know the truth hurts and sometimes people need tough love and all that jazz.  And I can't disagree with you Steph.  Folks like you who don't mince words are just as necessary as the gentler folks. Especially if the message gets through. And I know it's all to be helpful to OP but as they say where I'm from...Dayummm!  That's like getting a spanking with no belt. Whew!
Posted by zantster[/QUOTE]

<div>Wouldn't a spanking WITH a belt be more painful? :P</div><div>
</div><div>But don't worry about my feelings. I think it's pretty clear that I am not hiding from any facts. If anyone wants to judge me for preferring my FI's flaws to another's that's cool, but I don't necessarily think it's fair. </div><div>
</div><div>ETA: I just re-read this and I think it might sound sarcastic when I don't mean it to. </div>

StephBeanWed61502

First of all Emee, my H and I are not from issue-free families, we've just both worked hard at separating their issues from our relationship (hence the pre-marital counseling).  When I see someone repeatedly posting about how an SO's personal history is bleeding all over the current relationship, I see red flags, or at least yellow flags.

Second of all, it's fine if you want to rant here, but that post that I wrote?  That's based on what you put out here for us to know about your FI.  That's the picture you are painting of him for us.  I'm not going to not mention that the pieces of your relationship that you are describing here sound troublesome to me just because there may be other things you haven't described that might mitigate the troublesome things. 

bunni727

Just to add a little something to the mix, emee, maybe your Fi doesn't realise he is choosing his family over you, because you don't throw fits like they do.

What he may need, (had to have this talk pretty early with my H), is for you to say something to the effect of: "Dude, it's not fair that you put your families preferences and feelings above mine, just because they throw better tantrums. That's like giving the squalling child an ice cream cone, and squat to the well behaved one, because the well behaved child won't bother you about it. You've got to cut that out before we get married."

As for the present situation, I'd try to  find a hotel--maybe closer to the aunt's?--and grab a takeout lunch that you can eat if taking a dish isn't an option.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:e6adf473-f471-492e-bd39-834ee3233a4f">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : Honestly, Christmas is the only holiday where I'd be disappointed if we weren't together.  Thanksgiving, Easter, whatever, I'd have no problem with.   ETA: And I'm probably biased since there is litterally NOTHING about TG that I like. And it still comes down to two choices (if it were me), either pay for a hotel (which isn't an option) or not go and have a conversation with my SO about whether he's going to go.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

It's one thing if my partner had to be OOT over a holiday for work or something. But I can't fathom him CHOSING to spend a holiday - any holiday, because hey, at least it's a day off of work for both of us - with people who aren't me. Because I wouldn't do that to him, either.

Especially if my H had a family like this one!

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-fis-family-are-hoarders?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fc217018-cea0-46eb-93a2-4e6fe46c67ebPost:9eaf821b-b016-49eb-8859-86b0ace03e45">Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR - FI's family are hoarders : I don't think it's very easy to discern the quality of a relationship from what one person in that relationship posts on a message board. If I can't come to complain about Hoarding on The Knot message boards, WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO ??  Cheers to you, your S/O and your families for being issue free, though. Golf clap for real because that's hard to achieve.  But, so, I just want to be clear that it is his Aunt's house we would be going to for Thanksgiving, and that FI does not ever speak to her on his own.  Despite feeling obligated to attend family events, he is not close with his extended family in the slightest.  His mom wants us to go because she hates going on her own partially because the elderly Jewish relatives are a bit racist (which is always a blast - she's black), and we're a nice buffer. <strong> Also, I just want to point out it's difficult to tell someone they're lying when they haven't had a chance to prove it yet. His mom is adament that she'll clean, but we both know she's lying or that her idea of clean will not be the same as ours. As I'd mentioned in previous responses, since I wrote the initial post, FI has made it clear that we will not be going unless his mom sends him photos of an entirely clean apartment.</strong> And I'm fine with that.  As for my most on CC, I wrote an update a day or two ago that we talked it out, and he apologized. And I would assume that all of us here on The Knot are aware that this is in fact a message board, and it's difficult to get the whole story from one PMS-driven vent.  Now, if anyone would like to join me, I will be watching episodes of Hoarders and playing this game:  <a href="http://community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?w=265899&as=119137&d=588734" rel="nofollow">http://community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?w=265899&as=119137&d=588734</a>
Posted by emeejeeayen[/QUOTE]

Honeslty? I think she doesn't know. I don't much about hoarders (as an actual diagnosis) but I wonder if her view of the house is similar to body dysmorphia - it looks "fine" to her, because she takes comfort in that. I don't know that's she really lying, per se.

Now I'm just playing armchair psychiatrist, but you said she's really smart and aced the Bar exam. Maybe this is one thing in her life that's not perfect and she needs that? Maybe something happened to her (or both FI's parents) that makes them have an inexplicable emotional connection to "stuff" and they just literally cannot throw anything away.

It's a disease. That doesn't mean it's your problem and you have to deal with it, but I wonder if someday THEIR health will suffer because of it. I can't believe it hasn't already.

abbiecorwin

I live in Sunset Park (gasp! Brooklyn!) and the Days Inn on 39th St and 4th Ave is small, efficient, and above all clean. My mom, sister, and I stayed there when they came to the city to buy my wedding dress. It's about $200 a night and 30 minutes by subway (on 37th and 4th) to Tribeca. Our families are staying there for the holiday, as our apartment is too small for everyone to sleep! If you end up going, that's my suggestion.