FIs dad's really ridiculous prenup idea

Ajuliana

Since FI and I are both farm kids, there is a lot of acreage and big ticket equipment to account for in potential future inheritance.  We have always said we wanted a prenuptial agreement to essentially state that if we part, my family's property and inheritance stays with my family, and his family's stays with his.  Very reasonable IMO. 

I had a car issue at FFILs house, and since I live a few hours away, my dad went over the next day to wait for AAA at FFILs house.  They got to talking, and FFIL brought up his own prenuptial idea.  If FI dies before me, all of his inheritance goes to his brothers.  Regardless of if we are still happily married.  Or have children.  Or have invested it in a home.

Am I validated in being totally pissed at his proposal?

**FI had not been told this previously, and when my dad called me about it, FI was very blunt that he wouldn't sign any such prenup, and neither would I.**

HisGirlFriday13

Yes, you are very, very, *VERY* right to be pissed off at FFIL's proposal. That's ludicrous. It's certainly one thing to talk about what will happen to assets that are brought into the marriage in the event of the dissolution of the marriage. That's so bat-shit stupid there are hardly words. It's like FFIL only wants the money/inheritance to stay in HIS immediate family -- and what if FI's brothers have died/moved away/decided they don't like farm life?

Blessedly your FI is on the same page you are. But yes, your FFIL is effing nuts.

daria24

It's crazy that he suggested it pass to his brother and NOT go to your children, should they exist. But H's mother and her sister inherited their family farm. Their wills state that the shared property is passed to their children, not their spouses in the event that they pass away before their husbands.

I believe the arrangement was based on an experience where land passed to a surviving spouse, that spouse remarried, and wife #2 outlived the husband. The land then passed to her and was no longer in control of anyone belonging to wife #1's family.

Ajuliana

I just mean...eventually all three of his sons will no longer be living.  And then what, the inheritance just poofs up into heaven with them?  And @daria24 we already have a child, she just happens to be a Beagle and be adopted ; )  What about the lifestyle SHE has become accustomed to, with bacon treats, luxurious black kennels, and long and plentiful belly rubs?

tiny speck

That's ridiculous. I can see wanting it to stay in the family, so having it pass to your and FI's children (and not necessarily to you) makes a certain amount of sense, but what your FI's dad is suggesting here is just nuts.

Peledreamsofrain

I would consult with a lawyer (which you are probably already going to do). 

My good friend is a great grandson result from a functioning farm being parceled up into acreage via inheritance, and I think I know what your FFIL is trying so tactlessly to avoid:  destroying the farm.

My friend's family has his great grandfather's acreage divided up and constantly bickers over the various properties.  The land fragmented enough to render it unusable for farming a long time ago, and now gets sold off in small portions when the inheritors can stop arguing long enough to do it.

I think your FFIL is trying to avoid having that eventuality happen, and is trying to consolidate the inheritance to one brother, who will one day take up the family 'business' (almost every parent's dream).  However, if he is, he just needs to change his will, not try to pressure new family members into signing documents that let him take the coward's way out.

MoonlightSilver

Unless FFIL has any control over you, I would be upset at his suggestion but not care too much. You and FI are the ones signing the prenup, you get to talk with a lawyer and figure out what you want it to say. FFIL may have just been not thinking about the possibility of kids or anything; he just wants to protect his own stuff. I can understand that line of thinking. FFIL hasn't even brought it up to you or FI it seems, so he might not even want you to actually do that.

lyndausvi

I understand being initial upset.   But you even said yourself that you both want to keep the farms in the individual families.   If you have no kids, I don't see a need to have FFIL pass FI's share of the farm to you.     Now if you have kids, well then I see where you want to protect their future interests.  

However, it's FFIL's farm and he can set his will up anyway he wants.  If he doesn't want to give a deceased child's estate part of the farm he doesn't have to.

This is both an estate issue for FFIL and pre-nup issue for you and your FI.   The only real sticking point I see is the grandkid issue.   Which FFIL might have not really thought of the problems that might cause.  Sometimes something sounds good or  bad at first, but after further discussion with a clear head those choices may or may not be bad in the end.

krizzo17

Honestly - the big issue I see here is that people other than you and your fi and discussing your pre-nup. If FFIL would like certain things done with the things he currently owns that he will leave to his family (or others) after his death, he needs to take care of that with a will. The pre-nup only concerns arrangements and agreements between you and your fi. Also, it seems like you should also get wills to take care of arrangements in the event one of you dies, rather than relying on the pre-nup to include that as well.

Next time FFIL brings it up, remind him that the prenup and your wills are your business and yours alone, and that if he'd like, he's free to alter his own will however he wishes. What an asshat!

NicoleMarcelle

I read it the same way as @Liatris2010 -- If what he is saying is should FI predecease you, his share goes to his siblings, then that is perfectly fine, after all, FFIL gets to dispose of his property as he sees fit, and this actually sounds perfectly fine (and common) to me.  

On the other hand, if what he meant was after his share has passed to FI, upon FI's death that share has to go to his siblings, then I see why you would get upset, however, depending on the laws of your state (definitely talk to an attorney), FFIL could possibly give FI a "life estate" which terminates at FI's death and passes however FFIL wanted it to... It is his property, and he can designate how and to whom he wants it to pass.  

My advice to you would be to seek the assistance of an attorney, it will help clear any doubts.  As to the prenup, he can't make either one of you sign something you don't want to sign, he would have to put all of this in his will in order for it to happen the way he wants it to. 

lyndausvi

coopergirl15 said:

Couldn't agree with @krizzo17 more. Your FFIL is talking about issues that should be addressed in your and your FI's wills, NOT the prenup. FFIL is coming off as ignorant, and he's definitely sticking his nose in places it doesn't belong. I wouldn't involve him in any discussions of your prenup or wills in the future. It's none of his business. And definitely take everything you guys need to a lawyer to make sure it's both what you two want and need, and iron-clad legally.

Well it's not that simple.   When people are partners in a business they often put in pre-nups that in the events of the death of one of the partners the surviving  spouse does not have rights to the business.   

Now FFIL could be considered an ass for wanting to leave his future grandkidsout but he is not an ass to want to make sure his estate doesn't end up in the hands of a future spouse of the OP's in the event his son dies before her.

When you are talking about large estates, property, businesses and stuff it's not as easy as saying "it's none of FFIL's business".     The OP and her FI can write up a pre-nup saying he won't give his share of the farm to his brothers.  FFIL can then just not give him any part of the farm.   

The OP and her FI have to realize their pre-nup regarding the farm can't really be worked unless there is a farm to be had.   It's a good idea to talk calmly about this situation with the FFIL.   If FFIL's main goal of HIS estate is to keep the farm intact then the OP and her FI might just have accept that.

 And just because someone doesn't get part of the the farm doesn't mean they are left with nothing. Insurance, bonds, cash, etc are often left to those who don't end up with real property.

And ditto, they need a lawyer.

jemmini6

I'd speak with a lawyer, however, this is a will issue, not a prenup issue.

From my perspective, if the two of you were married, but didn't have children, I fully understand your FFIL's wanting the property to stay within his family, therefore, bypassing you and going to your FI's brothers.  However, if you have children together, I think that's pretty unfair to disinherit them solely because their father would have passed away.  So basically, not only would they lose their father, but they'd lose their family legacy as well... 

Regardless, I think this is something your FI needs to speak with his dad about, and perhaps they could consult a lawyer together about how this should be handled.

Ajuliana

My understanding is that it's common practice for families with certain kinds of assets to include in the prenup a statement that they wont petition for a share of the other family's property should the couple divorce. 

He and his brothers plan on renting out the farm once their father dies, (morbid but they talk openly), and splitting the profits.  They get nothing until FFIL dies.  To me, rightfully, that income will be a part of our family income, and will likely affect the type of home and lifestyle we live.  I don't think that just because FI predisposes me that I should be treated like a divorcee in regards to that inheritance income.  *Especially if we are able to have children*, a portion of that money would obviously already be being put away into a new trust for their education.

Also for clarity, my family has much more property and money, and we are not even entertaining such a clause, and just did the "ours is ours and yours is yours" in my brothers prenup. 

I'm thinking a little more clearly, and he probably just didn't think this through, but it hurts my feelings.  He has always said I am his favorite daughter in law (even in front of other members of the family and his other sons), and didn't have his other son and DIL sign one because I think at that point, he wasn't interested in estate planning. 

lyndausvi

Alaynajuliana said:

My understanding is that it's common practice for families with certain kinds of assets to include in the prenup a statement that they wont petition for a share of the other family's property should the couple divorce.  Pre-nups are for death also.  It's good for full discloser.  That way the surviving spouse can't come back and say they didn't know the inheritance they thought they were entitled to actually had a stipulation that it must be passed to a child or revert back to the "family".  Stuff like that.

He and his brothers plan on renting out the farm once their father dies, (morbid but they talk openly), and splitting the profits.  They get nothing until FFIL dies.  To me, rightfully, that income will be a part of our family income, and will likely affect the type of home and lifestyle we live.  I don't think that just because FI predisposes me that I should be treated like a divorcee in regards to that inheritance income.  *Especially if we are able to have children*, a portion of that money would obviously already be being put away into a new trust for their education.    Couple of things here.  First it's great the brother's talk about the future of the farm.  Not enough people do that.  But if  FFIL is suggesting that the if FI dies first the land should revert back to the brothers I'm wondering if FFIL has different plans.  In the end all the brothers will die.  Then what happens to the farm?  You will have all the kids survivors wanting a piece of a pie.  At some point the asset just isn't worth anything anymore.    Maybe FFIL is trying to avoid that from happening, but not really thinking clearly on how to make that happen?

Second, be very careful on planning your lifestyle based on potential inheritance.   There are many of us who don't get an inheritance.  We have to plan for our spouses dying the old fashion way, with life insurance, savings, etc.

Also for clarity, my family has much more property and money, and we are not even entertaining such a clause, and just did the "ours is ours and yours is yours" in my brothers prenup.    What your family does is irrelevant.    However, it made me think of something.   Since your family has more property and money could FFIL think that your future kids are already taken care of via your side?   For example, it was reported that Princess Diana left the bulk of her assets to Prince Harry, because Prince William will inherit more from the monarch.    

 Maybe in his mind that between his estate and your family's estate all of his sons will end up with about the same size farm making them all "equals" if you will??  IDK I'm talking out of my ass right now trying to find some logic in FFIL's thinking.  

I'm thinking a little more clearly, and he probably just didn't think this through, but it hurts my feelings.  He has always said I am his favorite daughter in law (even in front of other members of the family and his other sons), and didn't have his other son and DIL sign one because I think at that point, he wasn't interested in estate planning. 

Ajuliana

@lyndausvi, your analysis is not bad, and you're not talking out of anywhere!  The lifestyle part was more saying, if we have been receiving our share for fifteen years and for example used the income to start our children in private school, if he predisposes me then I wouldn't be able to keep them in private school.  I don't live outside my means now, and I don't intend to do it later.  I contribute 20% to my 401K, and after my bills and some fun money am contributing another 20% to our wedding fund every month.

Also the beach house, I'd have to give up our imaginary beach house.

I think it's pretty disrespectful to disinherit our children compared to their cousins just because of what they *might* get from my side. 

I definitely think he needs to sit down with his lawyer who might have options for him on how best to achieve his desires for his estate once he passes.  Then we can all approach this from a more level place.