Forum Entitlement

HappyPanda85

I'm curious... A few of you, who I think are mostly chill, I have seen ranting at the Knot Gods as if you are paying customers and deserve your product a special way.  Help me understand where this sense of entitlement comes from on a free public forum.  I understand that many feel that this is "home", but that gives you no rights to the forums, nor do the Knot Gods have to answer to any of you.  

I admire most of you for your insight, advice, and even love the straight-forwardness, even when it seems abrasive.  But, pick and choose your battles.  I don't think you can force the changes that you want by "yelling" and cursing in all caps, nor accusations of "lies".  And while I can understand being passionate about something that you love, it mostly comes off as pompous and bratty, like some of you are pitching fits because you're not getting the toy that you wanted.

I'm opening a can of worms here, but I have thick skin.   I know that I'm "new", but I have been lurking for a little while and I'm just calling it like I see it.

OwningAHome1981

My feeling is that if you arent paying for something you shouldnt really complain about it. TK is free to use so I feel like we should just accept it as it is. Some of the girls here are downright rude but that is not exclusive to TK. Put all of us in a room together and I guarantee claws will come out.

LiLe422

HappyPanda85 said:

I'm curious... A few of you, who I think are mostly chill, I have seen ranting at the Knot Gods as if you are paying customers and deserve your product a special way.  Help me understand where this sense of entitlement comes from on a free public forum.  I understand that many feel that this is "home", but that gives you no rights to the forums, nor do the Knot Gods have to answer to any of you.  

I admire most of you for your insight, advice, and even love the straight-forwardness, even when it seems abrasive.  But, pick and choose your battles.  I don't think you can force the changes that you want by "yelling" and cursing in all caps, nor accusations of "lies".  And while I can understand being passionate about something that you love, it mostly comes off as pompous and bratty, like some of you are pitching fits because you're not getting the toy that you wanted.

I'm opening a can of worms here, but I have thick skin.   I know that I'm "new", but I have been lurking for a little while and I'm just calling it like I see it.

I really dont get these types of posts.  I mean, you start it off with "a few of you"...you know exactly who your talking about.  Shit, the rest of us know exactly who your talking about.  So why don't you save yourself the bullshit passive aggressive approach and say Linger, whothefuck are you to yell at a KGs?  Misshart, whothefuck are you to accuse KGs of lying?  OP, see how easy that was?  Your post was obvs intended to stir shit -- so do it the right way and own it, mmmmkay?  Your approach is why TK has gone to hell in a handbag.


Disclaimer:  Linger and Misshart, The namedropping in the questions above were intended to show OP (and anyone else, for that matter)  if she wants to call someone out, skip the bullshit and CALL THEM OUT. 

MoonlightSilver

You don't have to pay for something to get upset that someone in a position of power ignored your suggestions, told you A would happen and then did B, ignored your requests for communication, and then took away the good new features everyone loved. 

The Knot Gods have said they want us to be happy. Yet they continuously do things that make us unhappy. The only good that's come out of these changes is that I can swear to hell and back if I'd like. 

You haven't see us pitching fits yet, though.

HappyPanda85

LiLe422 said:

HappyPanda85 said:

I'm curious... A few of you, who I think are mostly chill, I have seen ranting at the Knot Gods as if you are paying customers and deserve your product a special way.  Help me understand where this sense of entitlement comes from on a free public forum.  I understand that many feel that this is "home", but that gives you no rights to the forums, nor do the Knot Gods have to answer to any of you.  

I admire most of you for your insight, advice, and even love the straight-forwardness, even when it seems abrasive.  But, pick and choose your battles.  I don't think you can force the changes that you want by "yelling" and cursing in all caps, nor accusations of "lies".  And while I can understand being passionate about something that you love, it mostly comes off as pompous and bratty, like some of you are pitching fits because you're not getting the toy that you wanted.

I'm opening a can of worms here, but I have thick skin.   I know that I'm "new", but I have been lurking for a little while and I'm just calling it like I see it.

I really dont get these types of posts.  I mean, you start it off with "a few of you"...you know exactly who your talking about.  Shit, the rest of us know exactly who your talking about.  So why don't you save yourself the bullshit passive aggressive approach and say Linger, whothefuck are you to yell at a KGs?  Misshart, whothefuck are you to accuse KGs of lying?  OP, see how easy that was?  Your post was obvs intended to stir shit -- so do it the right way and own it, mmmmkay?  Your approach is why TK has gone to hell in a handbag.


Disclaimer:  Linger and Misshart, The namedropping in the questions above were intended to show OP (and anyone else, for that matter)  if she wants to call someone out, skip the bullshit and CALL THEM OUT. 

Hell in a handbag, eh?  My approach was with the intent to be a little more polite, knowing that everyone here knew who I was speaking to.  I find it ironic that you felt the need to add a disclaimer in order to make sure your "ass was covered", however.  Bravo!  

AddieCake

Hmmmm....my Spidey Senses are tingling......

button6004

TK earns lots of money from advertisers who pay them to have things like the pop-up ads visible to their users. The more of us that come on here, the more money TK can pull in. In my mind, every visit I pay to TK is money in their pocket, so if I think something is crappy, I'm going to let them know.

Look, you can't tell people they can't be upset at something. Whether they pay for it or not makes me difference- if people are upset with the quality of the product, they are going to say something.

And there's also the part where really, you can't tell people how or what to post.

LiLe422

HappyPanda85 said:

LiLe422 said:

HappyPanda85 said:

I'm curious... A few of you, who I think are mostly chill, I have seen ranting at the Knot Gods as if you are paying customers and deserve your product a special way.  Help me understand where this sense of entitlement comes from on a free public forum.  I understand that many feel that this is "home", but that gives you no rights to the forums, nor do the Knot Gods have to answer to any of you.  

I admire most of you for your insight, advice, and even love the straight-forwardness, even when it seems abrasive.  But, pick and choose your battles.  I don't think you can force the changes that you want by "yelling" and cursing in all caps, nor accusations of "lies".  And while I can understand being passionate about something that you love, it mostly comes off as pompous and bratty, like some of you are pitching fits because you're not getting the toy that you wanted.

I'm opening a can of worms here, but I have thick skin.   I know that I'm "new", but I have been lurking for a little while and I'm just calling it like I see it.

I really dont get these types of posts.  I mean, you start it off with "a few of you"...you know exactly who your talking about.  Shit, the rest of us know exactly who your talking about.  So why don't you save yourself the bullshit passive aggressive approach and say Linger, whothefuck are you to yell at a KGs?  Misshart, whothefuck are you to accuse KGs of lying?  OP, see how easy that was?  Your post was obvs intended to stir shit -- so do it the right way and own it, mmmmkay?  Your approach is why TK has gone to hell in a handbag.


Disclaimer:  Linger and Misshart, The namedropping in the questions above were intended to show OP (and anyone else, for that matter)  if she wants to call someone out, skip the bullshit and CALL THEM OUT. 

Hell in a handbag, eh?  My approach was with the intent to be a little more polite, knowing that everyone here knew who I was speaking to.  I find it ironic that you felt the need to add a disclaimer in order to make sure your "ass was covered", however.  Bravo!  

Yes, hell in a handbag.  Your "polite" attitude is why KGs are making the fun stuff ::poof be gone:: or "anonymous."

Sorry but no.  Passive agressive =/= polite.

And who exactly was I covering my ass from?  I added the disclaimer because those were not MY questions.  I was simply showing that if you wanted to start drama -- why pussy foot around it?

MoxieMickie

Users may not be buying a membrship but they are helping fund the site thru advertising. A year ago users on The Nest got upset at changes and TN's response and left and started a new forum on pro boards. I'm surprised at the apparent lack of cross talk And learning among staff. This place may never get as dead as TN, but I could easily see fewer users and visits, which impact revenue.
No one is required to use this site. Unless TK wants it to lose users it needs to be responsible and give s product people will use.

HappyPanda85

button6004 said:

And there's also the part where really, you can't tell people how or what to post.

Oh, do tell!  I asked where the sense of entitlement came from and suggested "I don't think you can force the changes that you want by "yelling" and cursing in all caps, nor accusations of "lies"."  Didn't tell them how to post, dear.  Merely stated an opinion.

However, someone was very quick to tell me how I should be posting.  Haha, it's all good.  If your panties aren't in a bunch once in a while, then you have no passion!

button6004

HappyPanda85 said:

button6004 said:

And there's also the part where really, you can't tell people how or what to post.

Oh, do tell!  I asked where the sense of entitlement came from and suggested "I don't think you can force the changes that you want by "yelling" and cursing in all caps, nor accusations of "lies"."  Didn't tell them how to post, dear.  Merely stated an opinion.

However, someone was very quick to tell me how I should be posting.  Haha, it's all good.  If your panties aren't in a bunch once in a while, then you have no passion!

I have no idea who you are, but I don't have my panties in a bunch, dear.

button6004

Also, your sarcasm and condescending tone speak volumes considering your intent to be "polite."

HappyPanda85

@StageManager14  Silly? Or tactful?  I think that the focus here is grossly misdirected, but what do I know?  How I address people doesn't take away from the subject matter of my original post.  But, let's focus on the part that really doesn't matter, shall we?

HappyPanda85

button6004 said:

button6004 said:

And there's also the part where really, you can't tell people how or what to post.

Oh, do tell!  I asked where the sense of entitlement came from and suggested "I don't think you can force the changes that you want by "yelling" and cursing in all caps, nor accusations of "lies"."  Didn't tell them how to post, dear.  Merely stated an opinion.

However, someone was very quick to tell me how I should be posting.  Haha, it's all good.  If your panties aren't in a bunch once in a while, then you have no passion!

I have no idea who you are, but I don't have my panties in a bunch, dear.

You took the one generalized statement in a post, and you made it directed at you.  Do you feel special, yet?  

button6004

Wow, you're a real winner, happy panda.

libby2483

The thing is, while users don't pay for this site, we do help TK generate lots of money in ad revenue. If people aren't using the forums because they are dissatisfied, advertisers won't want to advertise on TK and TK loses out on profits. Last year, these boards all had much higher traffic. The E board would have morning, afternoon, and evening chat threads with hundreds of posts. Several members became dissatisfied and started a new community on ProBoards. The same thing happened over on TN to an even greater extent. So, no, we aren't paying for this service, but the Knot Gods would be wise to listen to user feedback in order to avoid a second mass exodus.

HappyPanda85

@button6004

button6004

Lol you're going to get along really well here. And by really well, I mean not at all.

You're the kind of newb who makes people hate newbs. Do you feel special yet?

HappyPanda85

StageManager14 said:

And as for the subject matter of your original post, you are not to my knowledge, a paying customer to myself or anyone else your post applies to, so I am unsure why you feel entitled to an answer from us on it.

Mmmm, I see what ya did there!  Actually, I was trying to redirect discussion towards the subject matter, not necessarily feeling entitled to an "answer" per se.  But, I see how the game is played.  The subject doesn't matter.  What matters is, if you're willing to ruffle feathers, do it with a little style.  What matters is, how I address people, whether I call it polite, or tact, it's apparent that I was doing it wrong. 

MuppetFan

While I understand your statement, unfortunately your approach is ineffective.  As you can see, your thread has become about your approach, which makes it hard to argue the matter respectfully.

 

TK has asked us for our feedback and has communicated the desire to support us, so we have vocalized many valid issues. Regardless of my feelings on the approach by other users to get TG attention and apply pressure to issues, TGs know the nature of their users and could’ve easily stifled everyone with some communication –even if it was to say they need more time as they did with through the TOS process. 

 

Instead, I believe some of the recent changes (like removal of mods) were to respond quickly to user demands because they solve issues on paper. I think with more time invested on their part, they will find they are poor solutions and we will have more changes. I appreciate that TGs are open to changes and feedback though, and and are considering this a process.

AJuliaNJ

Can knot gods have alter egos?

RamonaFlowers

When everybody left TN for Pro Boards because they were unhappy with both the changes and TN's response (Or lack thereof) to everybody's complaints, TN's stock market value (You know, one of the things that makes them money) dropped like a rock practically overnight because of the lack of site traffic. It's been a year, and TN is still dead.  On the flip side, Pro Boards site traffic sky-rocketed (Also practically overnight). Within 72 of the launch of GBCN, one of the Pro Board Gods actually wrote the GBCN community a thank you note, because even though they also don't charge membership, site traffic does effect how profitable a website is.

Considering that TN and TK are run by the same company, you would think they would have learned their lesson from what happened last year. No, we do not pay to be members of this site directly, but the number of people visiting the site each day and posting/not posting most certainly does help determine how much money they do/don't make off of it.

By sucking pretty much all of the fun out of posting, and ignoring the suggestions from the people who frequent the site, they're really only hurting themselves in the long run. TN still gets posts from people saying "I'm new ... why isn't anybody here?" and then they eventually stop posting, because nobody wants to hang out on a dead forum.

There are other forums out there that are free to join, not complete eyesores to look at, and TOS agreements that don't rival the Third Reich (Or if they do, it's at least clearly spelled out in them. None of this "Well, it doesn't actually say anywhere that this breaks a rule ... but it totally does and you should know better" crap). If TK really doesn't care about about turning into TN 2.0, I'm sure they've got their reasons for not wanting the site to be profitable. It seems like a really bad business decision to me, but wtf do I know? It's not like I've been an active poster on this site for the past 4 years and have seen a mass exodus or 2 (Or 5) in my time here where the boards always bounced back before now or anything o.O

Peledreamsofrain

Post removed due to GBCK

MoonlightSilver

This was a great way to try to make new friends, OP.

allychase

I don't really have an opinion in this matter at all but I don't think the 100 or so regular posters that come here to TK forums are going to make or break the entire idea of The Knot as a place where brides can get ideas and use the tools they provide.

TK sells magazines and has a ton of other ways of generating money. Whether or not the regs leave TK will still be a site visited by millions of married couples to be a day and still be insanely profitable. Everyone I know IRL who used TK never once visited the community because that's not the main idea of the site.

I would assume TK Gods know all of this and is perhaps why they pretend to care about what you guys all want and don't carry out expectations. You aren't their main money makers. I say this only because you all seem to think by leaving the site will crumble behind you but that's really not the case at all. It's been said already and is, to me, the most likely case that TK Gods don't give a rats ass if you leave and are probably just looking to get back another aspect of the site to give to new, clueless brides.

The nest is not nearly as widely known and the housing industry really isn't as sparkly and fun and exciting as being a bride and everything being ZOMG "all about you" like the knot. Honestly I think HGTV has that area covered. These people are good at their jobs or else TK would've have exploded the way it has over the past 10+ or so years of its existence.

Of course this is just my $0.02.

AddieCake

 I hate when people think I'm stupid. 

daveANDkristen

@allychase I get where you're coming from, but I have to disagree.  Yes, 100 or so regs is a very small fraction of TK's overall audience.  But we all know the regs are the ones keeping it interesting around here - which means with the regs go a lot of other people.  Not to mention, without the regs, TK would turn into WB, and who needs another WB?  

The point is that the more interesting discussions that are had here, the more people (I'm betting 90% or more are lurkers), will be around to watch those discussions unfold.  The Community may be a small piece of the pie for TK as a whole, but it is important for ad revenue, there is no doubt about that.  If it wasn't, the KGs would not give two shits what we want, and probably wouldn't exist at all.  Of the whoknowshowmany people TK employs, we have Jackie, Porscha, and Irene and maybe a pair of tech guys.  No one is expecting the whole of TK World to be worried about little old us, but the handful of people who are in charge of the forums?  Yeah, this is kind of their problem.

HobokensFury

Sorry but I do think mods were entitled to more than a PM and 15 minutes notice that we were being removed. Just sayin...

RamonaFlowers

I would also like to point out that TN is currently offering to PAY users if they go to their corporate office next week and give them feedback on improving the TN forums. Because apparently, after a year they seem to have realized that dead boards aren't doing them any favors.

Knot Gods take note: The users have been telling you for almost 2 solid months now what needs to be done to keep people on the site and the boards active. For free. The users are only going to put up with this crap for so much longer before "Hey, you know where we don't have to deal with this shit? ProBoards. Let's go" happens (Hell, it already did happen once with the E and SB regs).

A year from now when the boards are dead and you can't for the life of you to figure out why the traffic is still down from the inevitable defection, it's going to take a lot more than $50 to get people to head down to HQ to tell you what they hate about this place ... if there's even anybody left at that point.

allychase

daveANDkristen said:

@allychase I get where you're coming from, but I have to disagree.  Yes, 100 or so regs is a very small fraction of TK's overall audience.  But we all know the regs are the ones keeping it interesting around here - which means with the regs go a lot of other people.  Not to mention, without the regs, TK would turn into WB, and who needs another WB?  

The point is that the more interesting discussions that are had here, the more people (I'm betting 90% or more are lurkers), will be around to watch those discussions unfold.  The Community may be a small piece of the pie for TK as a whole, but it is important for ad revenue, there is no doubt about that.  If it wasn't, the KGs would not give two shits what we want, and probably wouldn't exist at all.  Of the whoknowshowmany people TK employs, we have Jackie, Porscha, and Irene and maybe a pair of tech guys.  No one is expecting the whole of TK World to be worried about little old us, but the handful of people who are in charge of the forums?  Yeah, this is kind of their problem.

Well this issue isn't really about people's opinion, these few people either contribute a significant amount of money to the site or they don't. There's no way for any of us to know for sure just HOW MUCH ad revenue or whatever else the regs on this one part of the website contribute to the entire company but the knot is WAY bigger than a few forum topics. Because let's be real within the entire community there's only a few very active boards anyway.

TK Gods ask what we want, yes, and don't come through with any of it. So they can't value the opinions here too much. Look at the changes made- they're in favor of the random people hiding behind PMs. If such people even exist.

I'm just saying I really doubt TK will be crippled by the few people who keep threatening to leave. I only bring it up cause its such a silly thing to keep bringing up and I can just imagine the people at TK offices laughing that any of us believe we are worth that much to the corporation. The company would actually benefit if these forums were more like wedding bee which would encourage things like purchasing stupid monogram items TK shop sells.

I'm just being realistic. If anyone's gonna leave just do it and don't make a huge production out of it because its hypocritical and this reasoning is coming off as "you'll miss me when I'm gone cause you won't make as much money!" And it sounds silly. People leave and new people come all the time. I don't care either way, I don't put too much stock in whatever happens here because its a free website I enjoy browsing when I'm bored and its so funny that there's been this much controversy to cause people to start yelling and cursing. It's really not that big of a deal...

Peledreamsofrain

Post removed due to GBCK