Not sure I can do this

Jen4948

StageManager14 said:

Dude, not only do I agree with you as much as I disagree with you, but I went an entire week pointing OUT that I was agreeing with you a couple of months ago.  You have a serious complex or something if you are still convinced that I wander around the site just looking for posts of yours to disagree on.

And I am not saying that I want you to ignore me.  Personally, I'd just be happy if you'd just learn to properly identify "baiting" as an online term and not label every post that disagrees with you as such. I was merely suggesting that if it bothers YOU so much, you were welcome to ignore others.    

Would you like some bean dip?

[Deleted User]

This got weird.

NYCBruin

Oh my, that escalated quickly.

@Jen4948 it sounds like you could use a hug.  

Jen4948

LMc0322 said:

This got weird.

Yeah, it did.

RebeccaB88

I'm just not sure why your FI would want to be a pastor to this group of terribly un-Christian people. It sounds to me like church leadership is actually encouraging this behavior, not counseling the parishoners to stop.   I'm on Team Leave.  This is a very toxic environment disguised as a church.

LAM524

Thanks everyone. Stagemanager14, being aware of other issues, is right, as others suggestions seem right. We feel this isnt the right place for us. It was clear after a year. The biggest problem is the Lead Pastor. Sorry but "shit rolls down hill." He very much gets up in peoples business and gossips. His behavior sets the example! He tells everyone what they want to hear & in doing so, he doesnt stand behind his team. So yes, trying to set and example or trying to change this generation, these old school Christians, isnt possible. This will only change is they do away with traditional service or when all the old die out. Keep in mind, the old, have the "old money" and getting rid of 1st service will never happen.  My FI also always says that the churches big issues would be solved if they got rid of lead Pastor & the old Elders.  Some of his co workers Pastors) agree.

My FI was hired to take the church in a more "contemporary" direction. One service is traditional & 2 were, what they considered "contemporary ready." In the 3 years he has been there, he has done an amazing job and achieving contemporary services, but its a constant tug of war with the Lead Pastor & some Elders. I always get frustrated at this because he was hired to specifically change things and make the church more appealing to a younger generation. Attendance has increased/does increase but the younger families dont stay because the childrens programs are so lacking. This...seems to always become about his lead. Truth is, he brings them in but has nothing to do with the childrens programs. It's very frustrating. They are now in the process of replacing the childrens ministry leader.

Back in early Dec. my FI sent resumes out, with success (lack of pay increase was the main motivator). The Elders approached him with a pay increase. We talked about it and decided to stay until after we get married (May 2014). SO..we are here...with the plan of revisiting a change after the wedding.

As far as getting a backbone, I admit, Im still trying to find my "way" as his "spouse." I have no real gauge of what is "appropriate" behavior. I doubt very much the human side of me, the part of me that wants to say,  "back the eff off" is "Christ like." There are 2 other "wives" but they are not as active as I am. Im see more...I do more...Im just there more. They attend service and leave. They are the smart ones. I do very much like the suggested response, "this is between me, my FI & God." Wonder how that would go over with the old folks! I could almost guarantee they would go to the Elders BUT what Elder would dare tell me that Im wrong. It's so right!

Yesterday I spoke with one wife. She shared with me that when they recently shopped for cars, she was "conscious" of, depending what they bought, (financed) the "church family" would be all "talk"...."where do you think they got the money? They arent living a "humble" lifestyle!" Things like this. I must say, I didnt feel so alone with my "judgement" fears.

My FI does say this is a very unhealthy church. He has been in ministry since hes 18. This is my only experience of this type, being a "spouse" of. He is absolutely better at this then I am. I listen, watch in utter amazement & admiration when he is handling the "unhealthy." I wish I could be more like him and perhaps this is where I need to grow. Im never one to first respond out of "reaction" and Im thankful for this trait because he would definitely be "fired" for an inappropriate spouse! Its just so darn hard to be "humble" when there is such inappropriate behavior/questions coming my way.

There are 2 men who are extremely inappropriate. One constantly tells me how my hair just "does it for him" and how "sexy my red hair is." The other one constantly stares at me, like he wants to eat me. When he gives me a hug, he moves his chest into my breasts and moans...he says things like "you know, you can call me for anything...anything at all you may need. My wife works nights!" Before you ask, yes, my FI is aware and has approached his boss about the chest guy. As far as the "does it for me guy" he is an ELDER!!! Yesterday, he remarked again. Havent seen him since Dec. and I told my FI. We actually talked about it for an hour or so. Contemplating the best way to handle it. My struggle with these men is that my 1st reaction is the slap them, tell them to F-off etc. My hesitation is because of who I am with.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I cant tell you guys how much I appreciate the safety in this forum...your advice & the support I feel, especially with this church as a topic. You guys are my refuge. You hold my secrets. Things I dont feel I can speak to others about, even close friends because they are members of the church (although they are down to earth, and realistic people). I do feel the need to protect them and not burden them with the "behind the scenes"  politics, bullshit etc. Im hoping I dont burden you guys and leave a bad taste in your mouth. This crap isnt about faith..or God. Its amazing, sometimes I find myself feeling the need to "pick up the phone" (laptop) and come to " strangers" but I dont want to bog you down or wear out my welcome. Again, I really do appreciate you.

Im not young by any means, and I certainly have much life experience but this one is completely new to me. I just have to find my way without burdening my FI or making him feel terrible. He does know that its been a rough road and does know that Im struggling. His "human" side comes out in defense of me. Sometimes I feel like a failure because I struggle. If I could only just not have boundaries, and not desire a private life I'd fit this "role" perfectly. Seriously, who can live that way! Still, when I get mad/shocked/appalled, I feel like Im not the right "spouse" for a Pastor. It makes me very sad. Remove the church, I know, Im a great "spouse."

All this also harms me in another way. It makes me, at times, weak in my faith. I get very disappointed in people..."Christian" people. Ive learned Im wrong though. Christian people are still human beings & we all make mistakes. Its my expectations that harm me.

Geez...I just want to be a bride in planning!! @Stagemanager14...at this rate everyone could have a "cold" the day of the marriage blessing, I couldnt care less.   (I say that with respect and a big smile). Seriously, they are making that whole issue a non-issue for me (at this point)! Can you blame me? Ya know Stage, seriously, maybe the "green" (although it was a 1st impression 3 yrs ago) wouldnt matter, and subconsciously I'm rebelling! hmmm.....

LAM524

btw...lets not feed the "rape" subject which has no comparison or value to this topic. Please. It will be just as bad as that whole "miscarriage" topic. (I noticed its gone)

LAM524

I think I will find an "excuse" to create a wedding related thread...just to feel bridal again!

banana468

My MIL has described some people as "So Catholic they're not Christian," and while I assume your FI isn't Catholic, the statement applies.

Hugs.    Don't be a stranger! 

kellymiron

I just wanted to respond as another Christian just to encourage you. Marrying a pastor does put you in a position of leadership- whether actual or perceived, and you will stand out more. It's good that you are getting this type of experience now, before you are married. I know it is intimidating, but everything is difficult without God. When you are standing strong in your faith and are centered on Christ, then it's a lot easier to treat these people with love and not let them get to you. My first advice to you is to be completely at peace with all of the moral decisions that you make. Know that you are doing right in God's eyes, and repent if you aren't. When people question our actions, we immediately question our actions in return and instead, we should look towards Christ. He affirms us and He declares us righteous. Know who you are in Christ and know that He is pleased with you- even when you fall. Read Bible verses on persecution. In the position you are in, I think their behavior falls under the umbrella of persecution. You and your FI are standing for good things- freedom in worship, freedom to change the church style, freedom to spend time together without accusation, freedom from gossip, and freedom from judging others. These people are attacking all of these godly things you are persuing. Looking at your situation as someone who is persecuted- attacked, and picked on- can encourage you to stand up for the freedom that you do have in Christ and can encourage you to continue to love these people even when they treat you wrongly. I also get upset, but my man always says, "as much wrong as someone does to me, that much right I will do to him.". As difficult at it is, that is what we are called to do as Christians and with God it is possible. Prayers your way.

fre3doms

Hopefully you guys can figure out what is best for your situation. I bet it must be hard for you. Sending up some prayers for you.
You can always come over the the Christian weddings board too. I hang out over there and I believe a couple of the ladies that post are future pastor's wives too.

nebullama

I was really relieved to see your response LAM, though my heart just breaks for you.  It sounds as though you are very right about there being a lot of unhealthiness in that congregation.  I can only imagine how difficult it must be to step into the role of a Pastor's wife in such an environment.  I can think of no scriptural justification for their actions, and several passages that outright condemn it.

I am glad to hear that some of the other Pastors agree with him, and that you found another wife who has been subjected to the same judgement.  It sounds like you desperately need those things.

There are a couple of things that strike me about what you said.  You say that Steve was hired to bring about change, and you acknowledged that he does well handling the "unhealthy".  It may be God's intent that he help to heal these people.  I do not underestimate how difficult it is to change an old congregation of strong conviction, but through God all things are possible.  If anyone there is reachable, and God intends to reach them through your FI, then it can and will be done. It is after all the sick who need a doctor, not the healthy.  Granted, I could be way off here, and God's plans for both of you could lie elsewhere.

This also doesn't make your situation easy.  I don't mean to come off like "tra la la, God will magically make everything okay."  I would encourage you to lean on your faith, as well as your FI to get through this.  I wish I had a good suggestion for what to say to these people when they start casting stones, though I find QueerFemme's pearl clutching to be a fine idea.  

As far as Mr Grabby Hands goes, if he tries to hug you again, try to avoid the embrace by taking his hands in yours in a friendly squeeze.  This might put you in a good posture to keep him the eff off of you, while not drawing attention to the fact that you are dodging him.  I have actually used this with a creepy man before with great success. If he tries to pull you in, just step back, smile, and ask what he thought of the sermon.

I truly hope that your moments of wondering if you are fit to be a pastor's wife are short lived.  From what I can tell you follow Christ, are active in the congregation and seek to contribute good things to it, you love your FI, and are obviously willing to endure quite a bit to support him (the fact that you didn't run away screaming from these people a long time ago is evidence of that).  Please don't be dismayed by your struggles.  Anyone who tells you they don't struggle, no matter whose wife they are, is lying. Period.  If you get too fed up with people, maybe try delving into some good fist shaking Psalms.

Anyhow, I didn't really mean to get into my own pulpit there.  I wish you the best in your wedding planning, and pray that you find great joy in it.

BakerMommy

Sounds like this church could use a review on conflict within the church [Matthew 18:15 to 17] and the qualifications of an elder [1Timothy 3:2 to 7 Spoiler: self controlled and faithful husband are on the list, Mr. Grabby!]. I'm so sorry you're in sucha dysfunctional church. I feel like I should put church in quotes because these people aren't even close to behaving the way the church is called to.

As an aside, the Village Church is doing a sermon series on the church, and all the sermons are available online. Perhaps it could be an encouragement to you and your FI of what the church is intended to be and what he can work towards.

LAM524

Thank you everyone, really. .. You have given me words, advice & offered up prayers/blessings and I feel strength from all of it. Sometimes I need reminding that I cant handle/solve things on my own and that I dont have to...that all things are possible not thru us but thru God.

My FL really is very faithful and does believe strongly that he has a purpose at this church, for now. He has/does walk aside the "unhealthy" especially and does encourage change by giving people opportunities they have never been given before (serving on his team). We both do. Its really wonderful to watch their transformations in spirit, esteem and faith. Being with him, and eventually being his wife gives me such peace because of who he is...his heart for others. He too says its a true testament to love those who are seemingly unlovable. He's no push-over but he does believe that we should strive to "love" people like God loves us. Hes better at it then I am. Im learning and growing. I dont hate, I just have a tendency to wall up and "not bother" with those who offend...not a good Pastor's wife attitude but I have time.  He does struggle at times which is good for me. Not that I want him to suffer but that I can witness his process in coping and resolution.

@Stagemanager14...you've really touched me. Thank you. Please, no need for an apology. The building wasnt what was the deciding factor by any means (family was), maybe I didnt communicate/emphasize it enough. Truth, I think I will have a cold that day! My heart was in a right place when looking for suggestions and deciding on the "blessing" and hosting cake/coffee afterwards but now I feel like I'd be doing it just to please others when initially I just wanted to avoid hurting others. Bad attitude at the moment on my part. There really are some lovely people there...who do care. I think that "cold" may cause me to sneeze my knee up to boob man & Elder's groin!

LAM524

How so?

StageManager14 said:

That "love"? That was totally me.

misssunshine17

LAM, I was pretty harsh in your other thread about the space and I honestly couldn't understand how a Pastor wouldn't get married in their own church, but now I see the deeper issues, and like Stage, I'm sorry for being harsh. I also couldn't be married in this type of place. Good for your and your FI to stand by each other, this is really difficult for you. 

PrimRoseMama

WTF? 

a.) Why is it anyone's business if you are doing the dirty? I would be asking this lady if she wants to know which position is my favorite too and what condoms I like. FFS, how intrusive and rude. 

b.) Are you Mormon? These ladies have waaaaay too much invested in your relationship. 

I would be telling  them that my relationship (sex or no sex) is really none of their business. I don't feel comfortable talking about my intimate life or lack thereof with church members. Its my personal business and leave me alone. 

I love my church family and I was raised Southern Baptist. I think the old blue-haired ladies in my church would rather shrivel up and blow away in the wind than ask anyone about their sex life. Its the height of lack of class. Why would you do such a thing? Its so intrusive and rude. 

I'm still WTFing over this entire post. Its creepy!

MuppetOverlord

I think you are in a good place. I skimmed through some of the responses. I just wanted to tell you that you are right to have these feelings. I think to an extent, as others mentioned, the spotlight comes with the role of being a pastor's wife. However, the spotlight doesn't extend deeper than the personal information you are comfortable providing.

I would absolutely not respond to anything you are uncomfortable with. It sounds like this church is not a healthy environment and I'm glad you and your fiance are on the same page and communicating about it. That's very important. I honestly would not be waiting till you get married to look for a new place. I would want to feel how it is in a "good" environment before marrying into it.

I wish you luck and strength.

annathy03

I don't have anything to add that PPs haven't already said more eloquently than I can, but I'm sorry you're going through this and I'm sure that you and your FI will make the right decisions and steps for your lives together with His guidance.
Internet hugs!

LAM524

@misssunshine17...thank you. No need for apology. It really is difficult to post such history without sounding like excuses. My fault for not throwing it all out there.  I just/we just wanted to be surrounded by family and close friends. As time goes by, especially the "magnifyer glass" moments, I feel really very good about our choice and today I have no guilt or worry about marrying elsewhere. Now I feel I just want the day, "judgement free"...to DRINK AND DANCE...without fear of gossip...whispering, note taking etc. Seeing that would piss me off! Its nice to be real and finally admit (here) that MY church is dysfunctional and I really do struggle. After reading pp's, I think I will give myself more credit. Im realizing that its not Christianity I have my struggles with, its the behavior of the humans..and I think thats acceptable!

@Liatris2010..thank you. I couldnt & havent said that out loud. Non-creepy ((hugs)) back.

@PrimRosaMama...a/b (Christian) I believe that they feel invested/righteous in their approach because of what this scripture declares: "Timothy 3:1:13" Basically they probably take Timothy 3:5 as a motivator:  "if anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church..." Its a "qualifying" declaration...what makes a Leader. Basically, its a job description and calls for perfection.  I actually understand and agree with it but without damning a leader if he has a human-side...within reason. I dont think I could listen to one preach a sermon on fidelity if hes having an affair. Ya know what I mean? Now if he preached about the fall-out, his consequences and repentance from having an affair, I could absolutely listen with respect.

So sex outside of marriage is a "sin" (not address in Timothy) hence the statement that if we are having sex, we will bring the church down...it wil crumble. Its kinda funny..they didnt ask about drinking (also addressed in this scripture). Actually if you read the scripture, IMHO, we all desire most of these things in our personal life...leaders or not.

So, is it non-Christian to say that we are abstinent, and on our wedding night....after 4 years of abstinence, not only will the church crumble from miles away so will the venue!?? hee hee!

LAM524

OMgosh! You guys are really empowering me! Thank you so much! I really feel the ground under my feet. I feel my backbone! It feels really good to know that my feelings aren't unreasonable. I feel I can really address them from now on by telling them that God's got them and their "concerns" and that our personal life is personal.

@MuppetOverLord...thank you. I understand what you said about finding a new place before getting married. I would love to experience, again, a good environment but we are seriously desiring an out of state move (closer to some of my family and FI family) and we feel its best to wait until after the wedding (venues booked etc).

Yes, this is a huge issue and would be probably, sadly be a relationship ender if we werent on the same page. He has my support with his "calling" (thats one reason I fell in love with him) and I have his support with the issues of being a pastors significant other. I wish there was a support group for us human "pastor wives." Seriously.