Am I being too judgemental??

RickandSteph13

One of DH's VERY best friends got married this last week.  The newly married couple had a BBQ this weekend to tell his and her family that they are engaged.  They plan on having a ceremony of some sort in October.  Only two people know that they are actually already married.  The reasons they got married so quickly were for financial reasons because he is in the miliatary.  They won't even be living together until October.  I feel like that is being very deceitful.( he will be getting more money by claiming her as a dependant even tho she will not be living with him for the next couple months.) IDK I am sure it's not my place to judge their situation but I just feel like its all sorts of messed up. I don't even want to go to the ceremony. That's where the real problem comes in.  DH wants to go, of course.  Am I being awful by not wanting to go?? 

NYCBruin

Nope, you are not awful.  I wouldn't go either.  If you want vindication that lots of people agree with you, search PPD on here.  You'll get tons of threads from people sharing your thoughts on this.

Angusaur

This is a sham and what we like to call "Pretty Princess Day" or PPD around here. I wouldn't go. And I wouldn't go out of my way to tell anyone their secret, but wouldn't lie or cover for them if it came up in conversation. 

Jen4948

I agree with you-by pretending they're not married while claiming the legal benefits of marriage, this is a fake marriage.  I wouldn't go either.

RickandSteph13

Thanks guys!  The other person that knows the truth thinks there is nothing wrong with it and is excited about it. I don't get it. If DH decides he absolutely has to go I will go with him but I would prefer not to if they have it out of state.

AlexisA01

I feel you should go with him. Even though you may not agree with their decision there could be more to the story then what you know.

tinambride

I usually don't mind "pretty princess days" (what people seem to call this around here), but in this situation it does bother me. It doesn't bother me if they decide to have a PPD, but if they are only married in name and not lifestyle (ie not living as a married couple), but claiming the benefits of a married couple, then this is fraud. That's irrelevant to a PPD and is completely wrong. You are right to be concerned.

That being said, it sounds like they are your DH's friends. If he is close with them I would continue to support him and his friendship. Personally, there are few things about a wedding that I would be willing to lose a friend over. If someone wants a wedding ceremony after they legally marry then I will be there to support them as a friend.

But again, claiming to be married (to the government) when you are not in fact living as a married couple is fraud and completely wrong.

NYCBruin

AlexisA01 said:

I feel you should go with him. Even though you may not agree with their decision there could be more to the story then what you know.

What hypothetical facts would make lying to the government to extract benefits ok?

What hypothetical facts would make lying to your friends and family ok?

banana468

I'd be pissed too. I don't like liars and I can't help to support someone in a lie like that.

I've determined that those who don't find this sort of thing to be a big deal either

A-Haven't thought the entire concept through regarding how the couple is lying and living a fraudulent life.

Or

B-They live their lives with an inflated sense of entitlement.

RickandSteph13

 

NYCBruin said:

AlexisA01 said:

I feel you should go with him. Even though you may not agree with their decision there could be more to the story then what you know.

What hypothetical facts would make lying to the government to extract benefits ok?

What hypothetical facts would make lying to your friends and family ok?

I really don't think there's anything more to the situation.  What they told DH is just that she has been wanting to get married since our wedding and I guess something came up financially so they decided it was a good time. But didn't want to tell family because they don't want anyone upset because they didn't tell anyone. I hope that last part made sense. 

 

GypsyWife_

Why does it have to be OK with you? their life choices bad or not have nothing to do with you. Nothing will happen to you if you go to a wedding and have a good time and continue to be friend with them. Id say its judgemental. Example: Just because I go to a Jewish wedding doesn't mean I don't believe in Jesus. And its OK people do things and believe ddifferently. And yes I would even go to a polygamist birthday even though I think its wrong to have more than one wife. And I would go to wedding ceremony and reception for an all ready married couple. I'm always excepting of people no matter their choices as long as they treated me right.

Jen4948

RickandSteph13 said:

 

NYCBruin said:

AlexisA01 said:

I feel you should go with him. Even though you may not agree with their decision there could be more to the story then what you know.

What hypothetical facts would make lying to the government to extract benefits ok?

What hypothetical facts would make lying to your friends and family ok?

I really don't think there's anything more to the situation.  What they told DH is just that she has been wanting to get married since our wedding and I guess something came up financially so they decided it was a good time. But didn't want to tell family because they don't want anyone upset because they didn't tell anyone. I hope that last part made sense. 

 

No, it really doesn't make sense to me to "pretend" that a wedding is not taking place and to not tell to keep anyone from getting "upset" because they're not being told.  Either one is or isn't married.  If you (generic) want to be deemed the rights of a married couple, then you need to assume the responsibilities, and that includes putting on one's adult underwear and letting people know that you're married and handling with maturity whatever reaction they might have-including being "upset."  Nobody is entitled to an invitation to a wedding, but nobody is entitled to "pretend" that one isn't married when one is either. 

KeptInStitches

So they're okay with lying to their families? I wouldn't go.

manateehugger

This isn't about religion or about personal beliefs. This is about plain old dishonesty - which is wrong in pretty much every lifeview there is.

I wouldn't go.

wrigleyville

GypsyBridetobe said:

Why does it have to be OK with you? their life choices bad or not have nothing to do with you. Nothing will happen to you if you go to a wedding and have a good time and continue to be friend with them. Id say its judgemental. Example: Just because I go to a Jewish wedding doesn't mean I don't believe in Jesus. And its OK people do things and believe ddifferently. And yes I would even go to a polygamist birthday even though I think its wrong to have more than one wife. And I would go to wedding ceremony and reception for an all ready married couple. I'm always excepting of people no matter their choices as long as they treated me right.

This is so not the same thing as going to a wedding in a religion you don't observe. Totally not the same thing at all. That's still a wedding. This is not a wedding. The couple is already married, so it is not a wedding. They are lying to their families AND the government, which is wrong.

RickandSteph13

GypsyBridetobe said:

Why does it have to be OK with you? their life choices bad or not have nothing to do with you. Nothing will happen to you if you go to a wedding and have a good time and continue to be friend with them. Id say its judgemental. Example: Just because I go to a Jewish wedding doesn't mean I don't believe in Jesus. And its OK people do things and believe ddifferently. And yes I would even go to a polygamist birthday even though I think its wrong to have more than one wife. And I would go to wedding ceremony and reception for an all ready married couple. I'm always excepting of people no matter their choices as long as they treated me right.

It doesn't have to be ok with me for them to do it. They are adults and can do as they please. But I just don't feel that the way they are going about things is right.  Lying is never ok in my book. And your reply kind of confused me. I don't get comparing it with a Jewish wedding or polygamy because neither of those have anything to do with lying.

banana468

GypsyBridetobe said:

Why does it have to be OK with you? their life choices bad or not have nothing to do with you. Nothing will happen to you if you go to a wedding and have a good time and continue to be friend with them. Id say its judgemental. Example: Just because I go to a Jewish wedding doesn't mean I don't believe in Jesus. And its OK people do things and believe ddifferently. And yes I would even go to a polygamist birthday even though I think its wrong to have more than one wife. And I would go to wedding ceremony and reception for an all ready married couple. I'm always excepting of people no matter their choices as long as they treated me right.

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

kmmssg

Using my teeny tiny military mind here:

1.  His command will know he is married because he has to file the paperwork with them and get his Commander's signature to get the extra money.

2.  Will his command still grant his leave for the wedding?  If it isn't causing a hardship he is entitled to request leave for anything.  I guess I am overthinking that one because it is either approved or denied, they have better things to do than monitor what you are going to do on that time off.

PPD's DO happen frequently in the military.  They just do.  This lying thing is going to catch up to them with their families one day and there are going to be some very devastated feelings left in the wake.  I feel terrible about how their parents and families will feel when this finally comes out.

If two other people know, someone will let the cat out of the bag somewhere...

misshart00

I always wonder about getting married secretly because of the military? What if something happens to him while he's deployed. I wouldn't want to be the wife that has to tell his parents that not only did something happen, but we also lied about being married.

RickandSteph13

kmmssg said:

Using my teeny tiny military mind here:

1.  His command will know he is married because he has to file the paperwork with them and get his Commander's signature to get the extra money.

2.  Will his command still grant his leave for the wedding?  If it isn't causing a hardship he is entitled to request leave for anything.  I guess I am overthinking that one because it is either approved or denied, they have better things to do than monitor what you are going to do on that time off.

PPD's DO happen frequently in the military.  They just do.  This lying thing is going to catch up to them with their families one day and there are going to be some very devastated feelings left in the wake.  I feel terrible about how their parents and families will feel when this finally comes out.

If two other people know, someone will let the cat out of the bag somewhere...

I know that when he came to town this weekend he just got a flight after he was off duty friday and flew back sunday night. I would assume he might do the same thing that way he doesn't have to ask for leave. I want to know what his command will think about him being married but never seeing his wife until October. Do they just not care?

manateehugger

You'd be surprised how many military couples get away with the PPD lie - especially officers. It's rather disgusting.

wrigleyville

Then there's the double-edged sword where people think I don't support the military or military couples since I'm not okay with this. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm in full support of the men and women brave enough to join the military, and I have a lot of respect for them. I also understand that sometimes you have to rush a wedding because of a deployment or whatnot. But that doesn't justify lying. You can still have a nice wedding at the last minute. Having a PPD means those couples feel entitled to something, and that is what I have a problem with.

If my FI suddenly needed health insurance for some reason, we'd move our wedding up and not even bat an eye. I'd wear a cute dress to the courthouse, and we'd take everyone out for dinner at a restaurant. I wouldn't feel like I was "missing out" because I still got to marry my FI and have a wedding. So what if it isn't big or foofy or a huge party? It's your wedding day. Who doesn't love their wedding day?

kmmssg

misshart00 said:

I always wonder about getting married secretly because of the military? What if something happens to him while he's deployed. I wouldn't want to be the wife that has to tell his parents that not only did something happen, but we also lied about being married.

To be honest, I don't know anyone who lied about it.  If they did, they certainly got away with it.  I have posted many times about attending 4 PPD's knowingly.  They were all deployment related and the couples were open and honest.  Because of that it really wasn't a big deal as far as having colleagues attend.  The families?  I can't say on that one.

kmmssg

On the Army side of the house the question I would pose to the lying couple (especially the Service Member) is this:

The seven Army Values are Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Respect.  Are you violating any of those values with your lie?  You betcha.

manateehugger

wrigleyville said:

Then there's the double-edged sword where people think I don't support the military or military couples since I'm not okay with this. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm in full support of the men and women brave enough to join the military, and I have a lot of respect for them. I also understand that sometimes you have to rush a wedding because of a deployment or whatnot. But that doesn't justify lying. You can still have a nice wedding at the last minute. Having a PPD means those couples feel entitled to something, and that is what I have a problem with.

If my FI suddenly needed health insurance for some reason, we'd move our wedding up and not even bat an eye. I'd wear a cute dress to the courthouse, and we'd take everyone out for dinner at a restaurant. I wouldn't feel like I was "missing out" because I still got to marry my FI and have a wedding. So what if it isn't big or foofy or a huge party? It's your wedding day. Who doesn't love their wedding day?

Pssh I hate PPD's more because I AM a future military spouse. PPD's, in my mind, are disrespectful to the notion of honesty, self-sacrifice, and service - especially secret PPD's.

Military folks aren't the only ones who get tangible benefits from becoming legall married. Military folks are some of the few who get free benefits for getting married (free housing, food stipend, FREE health care and insurance, etc.) directly paid for by US taxpayers. Which is why I find military PPD's particularly abhorrent. They take advantage of all of us.

wrigleyville

GlassButton said:

Yes you're 15 regardless of the huge party but some still wish to experience what it's like. I have no issue with this.

I didn't walk in my masters graduation ceremony because I had the flu. I was really sad about it, but I didn't dress up in a cap and gown and have a pretend graduation ceremony a few weeks later just to "experience" it. I would have felt like a fakey-fake moron (and would have looked like one too).

Again, it's comes down to having an inflated sense of entitlement, and that's what I judge. Hardcore.

wrigleyville

GlassButton said:

Am I the only one that finds these PPD threads old? There should be a sticky on here about it like dry weddings. @RickandSteph13: I agree with GypsyBride on this. Also, I don't get the big commotion over weddings that I'm starting to see. I always thought I was too into it until I came here. I viewed weddings as these great parties people throw. Yes, something's are odd and can be seen as rude, but if you were in this person's house would you throw a fit? 

That's why this board is helpful. There are things people do that of COURSE we wouldn't say to their face or raise a stink about, because that's rude. But we can come on here and discuss etiquette and help people be courteous to their guests so their guests don't talk about them behind their back.

Also, chicken and Coke is no big deal unless I'm expected to pay for it. But if someone wants to have a wedding that's a BBQ with sodas in a cooler, that's totally fine. Casual weddings are awesome.

RickandSteph13

GlassButton said:

Am I the only one that finds these PPD threads old? There should be a sticky on here about it like dry weddings. @RickandSteph13: I agree with GypsyBride on this. Also, I don't get the big commotion over weddings that I'm starting to see. I always thought I was too into it until I came here. I viewed weddings as these great parties people throw. Yes, something's are odd and can be seen as rude, but if you were in this person's house would you throw a fit? I mean would you throw a fit if a friend of yours invited you to their house and served you chicken and coke? Would you demand they serve you wine if not they're imposing their beliefs on you? Would you throw a fit (in my culture we celebrate the 15th birthday party) if someone couldn't afford one and they invited you to it a year later? They're 16 at this point, but does it matter? They want to experience the party too. Yes you're 15 regardless of the huge party but some still wish to experience what it's like. I have no issue with this. I know it's just a few people, but these people need to get over themselves. It's just a party. It's not determining anything in your life or changing the world. Sorry for the rant RickandSteph13. I do agree with you though that they shouldn't lie about their martial statues though, but it sounds like they really do need the money. IMO the wrong they did was tell your husband when they thought he'd be a friend.

 

Excuse me? My DH is being their friend. I am the one that has a problem with it. Not that he doesn't think the whole thing is strange but he is supporting his friend and not saying a word to them about what he thinks. 

wrigleyville

PDKH said:

wrigleyville said:

Then there's the double-edged sword where people think I don't support the military or military couples since I'm not okay with this. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm in full support of the men and women brave enough to join the military, and I have a lot of respect for them. I also understand that sometimes you have to rush a wedding because of a deployment or whatnot. But that doesn't justify lying. You can still have a nice wedding at the last minute. Having a PPD means those couples feel entitled to something, and that is what I have a problem with.

If my FI suddenly needed health insurance for some reason, we'd move our wedding up and not even bat an eye. I'd wear a cute dress to the courthouse, and we'd take everyone out for dinner at a restaurant. I wouldn't feel like I was "missing out" because I still got to marry my FI and have a wedding. So what if it isn't big or foofy or a huge party? It's your wedding day. Who doesn't love their wedding day?

Pssh I hate PPD's more because I AM a future military spouse. PPD's, in my mind, are disrespectful to the notion of honesty, self-sacrifice, and service - especially secret PPD's.

Military folks aren't the only ones who get tangible benefits from becoming legall married. Military folks are some of the few who get free benefits for getting married (free housing, food stipend, FREE health care and insurance, etc.) directly paid for by US taxpayers. Which is why I find military PPD's particularly abhorrent. They take advantage of all of us.

Bingo. That's why I'm especially ticked off about the couple I know. Her grandparents cut her off, and I guarantee that's why they did the JOP thing. The girl has never worked a day in her life, and now I get to pay for her fat butt to sit on the couch all day while she uses her fake fiance/H's hard-earned money to pay for this sham of a "LOOK AT MEEEEE" day. I feel so bad for him. She's cheated on him (with my ex, no less), so yeah - I judge this whole thing hardcore.

There are two reasons I haven't told anyone about it: 1) Because that makes me a bad person and 2) Because we are friends with her H and don't want to cause him any embarrassment or pain. I'm 99% positive she talked him into this.

But MAN is it tempting some days. I hate being an adult sometimes.

kmmssg

misshart00 said:

I always wonder about getting married secretly because of the military? What if something happens to him while he's deployed. I wouldn't want to be the wife that has to tell his parents that not only did something happen, but we also lied about being married.

I forgot to address this part.  I can't IMAGINE the heartbreak of the parent's finding out their dead child was secretly married.

One scenario that comes to mind is this:  A Soldier is free to name anyone he/she wants to name  as the Person Appointed to Direct Disposition (PADD) if they are killed/die while in the military.  They do not have to choose their next of kin but that is what is done in the overwhelming majority of cases.  What if the Soldier secretly gets married and doesn't change it from a parent to his/her new spouse?  Selection of the PADD is not appealable.  Whomever the Soldier designated last is it.  They decide where they are buried, when they are buried, and how they are buried.

You could have a new wife confronting her angry, devastated ILs and them having control of everything because the Soldier never changed it after the wedding.  You would be amazed at how often Soldiers drag their feet on that stuff.

One friend of mine did a Casualty Notification and the wife (not secret wife) was all of 19 and being bullied by her ILs that THEY would be making the funeral arrangements and burying him in his home state.  Um, nope - the Army would only deal with the wife, only deal with the funeral home and cemetary she wanted.  That one was ugly.

Another friend of mine was a Casualty Assistance Officer for a death last year.  The Soldier got married around the holidays (second marriage, had 6 kids) and had to deploy to Afghanistan for his 6th deployment within a week or so of the wedding.  He was killed 4 or 5 weeks later and his father was appointed as PADD.  New wife got no say unless her FIL gave it to her.

This lying thing opens up the potential for some horrible scenarios.  I only had to do one Casualty Notification but the Soldier wasnt' married so it was as straitforward as it could be in that circumstance.

kmmssg

@GlassButton - people who lie get judged and I don't see a problem with judging a liar.