Time Between Service and Reception

TiaTea

@banana468 "... you frequently give advice that is against proper etiquette...The ceremony and reception... They are one large event from start to finish. This is also why you can't invite guests to ceremony only.
Again, you seem very nice but just not very well informed."
@southernbelle0915 " but it's bad for lurkers when you say things that are false and terrible breaches of etiquette"
@artbyallie "no, it is still one event"

Actually I am very well informed

You probably know that the first written book on etiquette was Emily Posts Etiquette in Society, in Business, in Politics, and at Home.. published in 1922.
She is still considered a real authority on etiquette and everything after her is based on her works

Here are same quotes

"The Bride Of Good Family: The bride of good family need do nothing on her own initiative. After her marriage when she settles down in her own house or apartment, everyone who was asked to her wedding breakfast ( ! )  or reception (!) , and even many (!) who were only bidden to the church,"

"Wedding Invitations
To those who are only "asked to the church" no house invitation is enclosed."

"Ceremony And Reception Invitation In One
Occasionally, especially for a country wedding, the invitation to the breakfast or the reception is added to the one to the ceremony: "

Invitation To Reception And Not To Ceremony

It sometimes happens that the bride prefers none but her family at the ceremony, and a big reception... The "pleasure of your company" is requested in this case instead of the "honour of your presence."

"Answering A Wedding Invitation

An invitation to the church only requires no answer whatever. An invitation to the reception or breakfast is answered on the first page..."

You either have to accept that a lot has changed since she wrote the book, meaning that etiquette does change and nothing is universally correct,  which I keep saying ,

or you have to accept that like in the case in question , you can invite people only to the church, only to the reception or both, as it was in E.Post's time .
So if you adhere to the "old etiquette" you can do it. If you believe in "changed etiquette, you can still do it

You get a bonus point if you can name the FIRST person ( a published author and authority on the subject of etiquette)  , who  wrote,  that if you invite someone to the one ( the church) you have to invite him to the other ( the reception)
 Another bonus point , if you can quote the reasoning for the change

All I am saying is that etiquette  is not written in stone .  It's made by people and it changes. To accuse someone of giving BAD etiquette advice, you have to have read ALL the authors , who wrote on the subject,  and be able to compare hem .

Maggie0829

OK @TiaTea why don't we just say fuck the etiquette books and just go with common courtesy.  Why can't brides just treat their guests with respect and courtesy?  And showing a guest courtesy is certainly not letting them mill around a city that they may or may not know for hours between the ceremony and the reception because the bride and groom want to go to 10 different locations for pictures.  The people you invite to your wedding are your closest family and friends so why wouldn't a bride and groom want to do everything in their power to make their guests feel welcomed and comfortable instead of just some props for the wedding?  These people are also taking time out of their lives to celebrate this joyous occasion and the last thing that they should be expected to do is to fend for themselves for hours because the couple wants some cutesy pictures.

banana468

TiaTea said:

@banana468 "... you frequently give advice that is against proper etiquette...The ceremony and reception... They are one large event from start to finish. This is also why you can't invite guests to ceremony only.
Again, you seem very nice but just not very well informed."
@southernbelle0915 " but it's bad for lurkers when you say things that are false and terrible breaches of etiquette"
@artbyallie "no, it is still one event"

Actually I am very well informed

You probably know that the first written book on etiquette was Emily Posts Etiquette in Society, in Business, in Politics, and at Home.. published in 1922.
She is still considered a real authority on etiquette and everything after her is based on her works

Here are same quotes

"The Bride Of Good Family: The bride of good family need do nothing on her own initiative. After her
marriage when she settles down in her own house or apartment, everyone who
was asked to her wedding breakfast ( ! )  or reception (!) , and even many (!) who were
only bidden to the church,"

"Wedding Invitations
To those who are only "asked to the church" no house invitation is
enclosed."

"Ceremony And Reception Invitation In One
Occasionally, especially for a country wedding, the invitation to the
breakfast or the reception is added to the one to the ceremony:

"

Invitation To Reception And Not To Ceremony

It sometimes happens that the bride prefers none but her family at the
ceremony, and a big reception... The "pleasure of your company" is requested in this case instead of the
"honour of your presence."

"Answering A Wedding Invitation

An invitation to the church only requires no answer whatever. An
invitation to the reception or breakfast is answered on the first page..."

You
either have to accept that a lot has changed since she wrote the book,
meaning that etiquette does change and nothing is universally correct, 
which I keep saying ,

or you have to accept that like in the case
in question , you can invite people only to the church, only to the
reception or both, as it was in E.Post's time .
So if you adhere to the "old etiquette" you can do it. If you believe in "changed etiquette, you can still do it

You get a bonus point if you can name the
FIRST person ( a published author and authority on the subject of etiquette)  , who  wrote,  that if you invite someone to the one ( the
church) you have to invite him to the other ( the reception)
 Another bonus point , if you can quote the reasoning for the change

All I am saying is that etiquette  is not written in stone .  It's made by people and it changes. To accuse someone of giving BAD etiquette advice, you have to have read ALL
the authors , who wrote on the subject,  and be able
to compare hem .

And you referenced one author. Judith Martin (Miss Manners) was aware of those exact practices and to paraphrase her sentiments, "It was rude then and it's rude now. "

You have given advice that results in discourteous treatment of guests. Just understand that while you may find a place that supports your argument, it's not correct.

kmmssg

Banana - That first love it is mine and you freaking rock.  As always.

JoanE2012

Maggie0829 said:

OK @TiaTea why don't we just say fuck the etiquette books and just go with common courtesy.  Why can't brides just treat their guests with respect and courtesy?  And showing a guest courtesy is certainly not letting them mill around a city that they may or may not know for hours between the ceremony and the reception because the bride and groom want to go to 10 different locations for pictures.  The people you invite to your wedding are your closest family and friends so why wouldn't a bride and groom want to do everything in their power to make their guests feel welcomed and comfortable instead of just some props for the wedding?  These people are also taking time out of their lives to celebrate this joyous occasion and the last thing that they should be expected to do is to fend for themselves for hours because the couple wants some cutesy pictures.

This!  What in the world happened to plain ol' common sense?? 

Never in a million years did it ever cross my mind to have a gap between the ceremony and reception.  I made sure I planned accordingly so it didn't happen.  I invited them to witness my marriage and celebrate the occassion.  I hosted them from the beginning when they arrived at the ceremony, the cocktail HOUR between, and the reception following.

See, the people coming that day were my family and friends....I wasn't going to treat them like crap and let them wander around town or give them a list of things to do to kill time. That's not a way to treat people you care about.   A good host provides everything.

ksblumb

@TiaTea (and everyone else that thinks gaps are acceptable for that matter) just step back and actually look what you are justifying. "We love you all so much that we want to share our wedding day with you, but what we want more is time for posed portraits. It doesn't really matter to us if you are bored to tears or driving around aimlessly killing time, because its our day and we will do what we want."

This should not be hard. You really have 2 options. Either do a first look and get ALL of the pictures out of the way so you can go straight to the reception with your guests. -or- Get most of your pictures out of the way before the ceremony, host a cocktail hour IMMEDIATELY following the ceremony (at the reception space, not at a third location) and limit your pictures including the bride and groom to one hour.

A gap that is not hosted for your guests is not acceptable. Ever. For any reason.

NYCMercedes

You get bonus points if you truly honor your guests.

TiaTea

Banana468, you get the "bonus point" for identifying Miss Manners .  And by doing so, you also proved  my point.  Miss Manners often gave advice against the "proper etiquette" .  She did admit that there is a proper way for inviting guests to the church , and not the reception, but asked the reader to not do it . She also was aginst RSVPs for example. I believe she called them "vulgar " The list goes on...
Miss Manners often gave advice against the "proper etiquette"

And you are the one that told me ""... you frequently give advice that is against proper etiquette.."
Thank you again for proving my point.



,

LiLe422

Maggie0829 said:

OK @TiaTea why don't we just say fuck the etiquette books and just go with common courtesy.  Why can't brides just treat their guests with respect and courtesy?  And showing a guest courtesy is certainly not letting them mill around a city that they may or may not know for hours between the ceremony and the reception because the bride and groom want to go to 10 different locations for pictures.  The people you invite to your wedding are your closest family and friends so why wouldn't a bride and groom want to do everything in their power to make their guests feel welcomed and comfortable instead of just some props for the wedding?  These people are also taking time out of their lives to celebrate this joyous occasion and the last thing that they should be expected to do is to fend for themselves for hours because the couple wants some cutesy pictures.

Gaaaawd, Maggie.  Its HER day so she can do whatever she wants, even it it means being rude as fuck to her guests. 

NOT!

Gaps are terribly rude and inconsiderate.  End of story!

davisse3

Is anyone here actually reading the OP's post? She has stated the gap IS hosted... typically in the family's home with drink, food and entertainment. 

2.5 hours should be plenty of time for pictures - Since you are taking pictures in different places, make sure to account for enough travel time. Have you talked to your photographer? They will probably know how much time you will need if you have a specific shot list and location list. 

banana468

TiaTea said:

Banana468, you get the "bonus point" for identifying Miss Manners .  And by doing so, you also proved  my point.  Miss Manners often gave advice against the "proper etiquette" .  She did admit that there is a proper way for inviting guests to the church , and not the reception, but asked the reader to not do it . She also was aginst RSVPs for example. I believe she called them "vulgar " The list goes on...
Miss Manners often gave advice against the "proper etiquette"

And you are the one that told me ""... you frequently give advice that is against proper etiquette.."
Thank you again for proving my point.



,

Wow. It's been a long time that I've been condescended to in such an arrogant manner.

Read up. Miss Manners gives about the purest form of etiquette advice. You also referenced her disdain for RSVPs incorrectly. She is against the pre printed response card - not the request for a response to an invitation.

As much as the tangent you have taken has been fun, it doesn't change the fact that you HAVE been advising people to do inappropriate things. Reference all the books you can and it will still come out that gaps and self indulgent parties are rude.


To @davisse3, I read the OP. While it would be great if she can shorten the time, she's hosting her guests so she's covered.

LavenderHoneyBee

davisse3 said:

Is anyone here actually reading the OP's post? She has stated the gap IS hosted... typically in the family's home with drink, food and entertainment. 

2.5 hours should be plenty of time for pictures - Since you are taking pictures in different places, make sure to account for enough travel time. Have you talked to your photographer? They will probably know how much time you will need if you have a specific shot list and location list. 

I was about to post the exact same thing. If everyone would unbunch those panties they would see that the OP is planning on hosting her guests during the gap. And that this is a common occurrence in her circle. Some of you may not like it and would not want to attend such an event, but luckily you aren't invited :-)

OP - I think two hours would be more than enough time.

Maggie0829

LavenderHoney and davisse if you read through the entire thread you will see that there were some posters that stated that a gap without hosting anything is perfectly fine.  This is where many of the responses come into play.  I did read OP post and I still think a gap, even a hosted gap, are rude and dumb.  Gaps are pointless and only benefit the bride and groom so that they can get some cute pictures at different locations.  There are ways to plan out your day so that a gap is not necessary and you can still get the pictures you want.  Your guests comfort should come first and if I have to sit around for a few hours before the reception starts, whether you provide me with food and drink or not, I will be a bit annoyed and by the time the reception does start I will most likely be tired and ready to go home .

hyechica81

i have the same dilema getting married in my fi church and its catholic so they have s strick no weddings after this time because its confesional and evening mass 1.00 is the cut off so my 700pm reception is going to be a huge gap. i am trying to see if we could do the ceremony after the last mass of the day which is 430-5.  6 would be the ceremony end time pictures down the road and then get to the venue by 7 would only leave a small gap time.

Maggie0829

hyechica81 said:

i have the same dilema getting married in my fi church and its catholic so they have s strick no weddings after this time because its confesional and evening mass 1.00 is the cut off so my 700pm reception is going to be a huge gap. i am trying to see if we could do the ceremony after the last mass of the day which is 430-5.  6 would be the ceremony end time pictures down the road and then get to the venue by 7 would only leave a small gap time.

I'm sorry but if you can't push the ceremony to the later time then you really need to move your reception up so that you can eliminate that gap.  I understand that you may want an evening reception but getting married in a Catholic church means you have to give up that vision.

And if you do get to move your ceremony then your cocktail hour should start at 6 so that there is no gap whatsoever for your guests.

Viczaesar

TiaTea said:

@atrbyallie "It is rude to invite people to an event and fail to host them from start to finish"

You think of it as one event. As many people do. But please understand , that for just as many people those  are two separate events: 1. a ceremony, and 2. a party.
One is the serious, official part,  either at a church , or a court , or somewhere else. The other one is just a party. That's why the gap is acceptable. And the host should know who the guests are and act accordingly.
The OP said that in her area it is common, so maybe that's how they look at it there.

You need to do some research.  The "party" part is a thank you for attending the ceremony.  It cannot be separated from the ceremony.  They go together.  This is not two separate events. 

ShesSoCold

hyechica81 said:

i have the same dilema getting married in my fi church and its catholic so they have s strick no weddings after this time because its confesional and evening mass 1.00 is the cut off so my 700pm reception is going to be a huge gap. i am trying to see if we could do the ceremony after the last mass of the day which is 430-5.  6 would be the ceremony end time pictures down the road and then get to the venue by 7 would only leave a small gap time.

I'm with Maggie. You need to move the reception up if you can't move ther ceremony. If you want that late night party atmosphere, you could have an afternoon reception and then an informal after-party later.