help please im clueless.

GypsyWife_

I need suggestions of books, blogs, websites related to wedding etiquette. I need to get schooled. As some of you know I'm in a different kind of situation and I don't know any etiquette on how to pull off any kind of marriage celebration. I don't even know what I'm doing yet, because I'm unsure of what's appropriate to have.

MuppetOverlord

What's your situation?

Honestly, just search posts on here and lurk a bit. You'll get a lot of feedback and insight.

Also, we are more than happy to help.

 

-

 

KeptInStitches

Miss Manners is a good etiquette source all around.

ElcaB

Check out books from your local library on wedding etiquette. There are tons. 

GypsyWife_

MuppetOverlord said:

What's your situation?

Honestly, just search posts on here and lurk a bit. You'll get a lot of feedback and insight.

Also, we are more than happy to help.

 

-

 

I've never been legally married or had any celebration of any kind. However according to my husbands cultures and beliefs we were considered married when I moved in with him.
Now 8 years later we want some kind of celebration with no legalities. Not sure of having a gypsy wedding, commitment ceremony , or big celebration of our marriage? I would like to wear a wedding dress, have a gypsy handtying, wedding cake. But I want it to be appropriate.

ashleyep

Miss Manners, you can get it used online from Amazon or Barnes and Noble for like $3. I like the format of the Emily Post book better, but her advice is kind of old and outdated. 

MuppetOverlord

Do you not want the benefits of legal marriage? Just curious.

 

My top 3 points of advice:

1. Plan the wedding you can afford to host

2. Host people as you would in your home.

3. Don't cause your guests to open your wallets at your wedding

GypsyWife_

MuppetOverlord said:

Do you not want the benefits of legal marriage? Just curious.

 

My top 3 points of advice:

1. Plan the wedding you can afford to host

2. Host people as you would in your home.

3. Don't cause your guests to open your wallets at your wedding

no. honestly  my husband's POV is... the government shouldn't be involved in anyone's relationships. I think maybe this is why roma don't have legal marriages and have our own divorce courts..

Simply Fated

The thing is, the goverment is involved in your relationship, whether or not you're married. KEEPING you from benefits, is involvement. His argument is illogical.
I'm not saying you have to get married or should get married, just that his excuse makes zero sense.

I'm not even sure what would be proper etiquette here. I mean, you've been together less time than me and my boyfriend and I've never felt we needed any kind of PPD for any reason. It's just not something I can relate to, I'm sorry.
I do suggest Miss Manners, though. I think she balanced tradition with progression fairly well.

itzMS

Simply Fated said:

The thing is, the goverment is involved in your relationship, whether or not you're married. KEEPING you from benefits, is involvement. His argument is illogical. I'm not saying you have to get married or should get married, just that his excuse makes zero sense. I'm not even sure what would be proper etiquette here. I mean, you've been together less time than me and my boyfriend and I've never felt we needed any kind of PPD for any reason. It's just not something I can relate to, I'm sorry. I do suggest Miss Manners, though. I think she balanced tradition with progression fairly well.

Agreed.

Also, traditional etiquette won't even begin to scratch the surface of romani traditions.

The only thing I could suggest that makes sense to me (with no romani background) is an anniversary party.

 

GypsyWife_

Simply Fated said:

The thing is, the goverment is involved in your relationship, whether or not you're married. KEEPING you from benefits, is involvement. His argument is illogical. I'm not saying you have to get married or should get married, just that his excuse makes zero sense. I'm not even sure what would be proper etiquette here. I mean, you've been together less time than me and my boyfriend and I've never felt we needed any kind of PPD for any reason. It's just not something I can relate to, I'm sorry. I do suggest Miss Manners, though. I think she balanced tradition with progression fairly well.

I understand your POV. its ok if you don't understand  the reasons why roma do things the way we do. Its very much a culture that doesn't really change in order  preserve customs and traditions and beliefs. things are done the way they've been done for hundreds of years. no  matter if it makes since now a days or not.

ShesSoCold

itzMS said:

Simply Fated said:

The thing is, the goverment is involved in your relationship, whether or not you're married. KEEPING you from benefits, is involvement. His argument is illogical. I'm not saying you have to get married or should get married, just that his excuse makes zero sense. I'm not even sure what would be proper etiquette here. I mean, you've been together less time than me and my boyfriend and I've never felt we needed any kind of PPD for any reason. It's just not something I can relate to, I'm sorry. I do suggest Miss Manners, though. I think she balanced tradition with progression fairly well.

Agreed.

Also, traditional etiquette won't even begin to scratch the surface of romani traditions.

The only thing I could suggest that makes sense to me (with no romani background) is an anniversary party.

 

I agree with the bolded. Since you've never been legally married and don't intend to be, etiquette-wise, there's not much you can do besides an anniversary party. No ceremony, no vows, no wedding dress (goregous gown - yes) no first dance, things like that.

But I, too, am ignorant on gypsy traditions and understand it may be different. But I can't see an instance where a (legally) fake wedding when a couple has already been married (by their customs) is okay. I really can't.

GypsyWife_

well its hard to tell. roma have basically a big party basically like a huge reception instead of a ceremony. the bride walks in wearing a normal gown. then changes into a wedding gown for the dancing and hand tying. 

Jen4948

GypsyBridetobe said:

Simply Fated said:

The thing is, the goverment is involved in your relationship, whether or not you're married. KEEPING you from benefits, is involvement. His argument is illogical. I'm not saying you have to get married or should get married, just that his excuse makes zero sense. I'm not even sure what would be proper etiquette here. I mean, you've been together less time than me and my boyfriend and I've never felt we needed any kind of PPD for any reason. It's just not something I can relate to, I'm sorry. I do suggest Miss Manners, though. I think she balanced tradition with progression fairly well.

I understand your POV. its ok if you don't understand  the reasons why roma do things the way we do. Its very much a culture that doesn't really change in order  preserve customs and traditions and beliefs. things are done the way they've been done for hundreds of years. no  matter if it makes since now a days or not.

Here's the thing.  If you leave the government out of your marriage as your FI wants, you have no rights whatsoever.  If he throws you out, abuses you, dies, commits a crime and gets arrested, you do not have the legal protection of a wife. You would not be protected from having to testify against him and vice versa for example.

He also forgos the legal protection of a husband.  He can't step in for you if you end up in the hospital or otherwise act as your husband legally.  He can't block your own family from making decisions about you that he otherwise would get to have.

You and he may think that these things may never be necessary, but they may well be.

So, all that said, exactly how to celebrate an occasion that isn't really a "wedding" is something I don't know.

Maggie0829

I second the anniversary party.  In fact you could most likely do a vow renewal even though you really won't be renewing any vows but I still think a small and short ceremony where you express your commitment to one another in front of family and friends would be ok.

PrettyGirlLost

GypsyBridetobe said:

well its hard to tell. roma have basically a big party basically like a huge reception instead of a ceremony. the bride walks in wearing a normal gown. then changes into a wedding gown for the dancing and hand tying. 

Do you gals think it would be fine for @GypsyBrideto be since technically she never was married and isn't married.  It's not a PPD or a wedding do-over if you have never been married, right?

Abbyjensen

Others might disagree with me, but this is my opinion.

While there are some things that are basic across cultures (treat people with respect, don't lie or deceive people, etc), I think etiquette is cultural. 

If you plan on inviting people from the "main" culture, I think you should take their etiquette into consideration, but if you are inviting people from your culture (and from what it sounds, your culture is quite exclusive, not blended with current American culture) then I think you should base whatever you do on your culture and your etiquette.

phira

GypsyBridetobe said:

well its hard to tell. roma have basically a big party basically like a huge reception instead of a ceremony. the bride walks in wearing a normal gown. then changes into a wedding gown for the dancing and hand tying. 

Hm.

The thing is, it sounds like if you were going to have a Roma wedding, it would have been 8 years ago when you became officially married in the Roma tradition. Definitely correct me if I'm wrong. It sounds like you had a marriage (legal or not) without a wedding (a party celebrating the marriage), and you're sad about it. In that case, I'd recommend an anniversary party or vow renewal in keeping with Roma traditions. However, I'd recommend against a Roma wedding with wedding traditions, a wedding gown, etc.

If you really want all that, then like other posters, I'd remind you that you COULD get legally married.

It really sounds to me like you are being very respectful of your husband's wishes and desires, and respectful of his culture, but you don't say what YOU want, besides the experience of a wedding celebration. Do you want to be legally married? Do you feel married because you live together, or is that just according to your husband's tradition? What about your own culture/traditions (it sounds like you were not raised Roma)?

Maggie0829

PrettyGirlLost said:

GypsyBridetobe said:

well its hard to tell. roma have basically a big party basically like a huge reception instead of a ceremony. the bride walks in wearing a normal gown. then changes into a wedding gown for the dancing and hand tying. 

Do you gals think it would be fine for @GypsyBrideto be since technically she never was married and isn't married.  It's not a PPD or a wedding do-over if you have never been married, right?

But my feeling is that they consider themselves married in the eyes of their culture so to have the full out Roma "wedding" would be a bit like a PPD, KWIM?

I still stick by a version of a vow renewal.  I don't know the traditions within a Roma wedding celebration but a few nice words to each other plus a hand-tying to show the continuance of your commitment to each other would be really nice.

GypsyWife_

Jen4948 said:

GypsyBridetobe said:

Simply Fated said:

The thing is, the goverment is involved in your relationship, whether or not you're married. KEEPING you from benefits, is involvement. His argument is illogical. I'm not saying you have to get married or should get married, just that his excuse makes zero sense. I'm not even sure what would be proper etiquette here. I mean, you've been together less time than me and my boyfriend and I've never felt we needed any kind of PPD for any reason. It's just not something I can relate to, I'm sorry. I do suggest Miss Manners, though. I think she balanced tradition with progression fairly well.

I understand your POV. its ok if you don't understand  the reasons why roma do things the way we do. Its very much a culture that doesn't really change in order  preserve customs and traditions and beliefs. things are done the way they've been done for hundreds of years. no  matter if it makes since now a days or not.

Here's the thing.  If you leave the government out of your marriage as your FI wants, you have no rights whatsoever.  If he throws you out, abuses you, dies, commits a crime and gets arrested, you do not have the legal protection of a wife. You would not be protected from having to testify against him and vice versa for example.

He also forgos the legal protection of a husband.  He can't step in for you if you end up in the hospital or otherwise act as your husband legally.  He can't block your own family from making decisions about you that he otherwise would get to have.

You and he may think that these things may never be necessary, but they may well be.

So, all that said, exactly how to celebrate an occasion that isn't really a "wedding" is something I don't know.

Thank you , however we understand and have talked about those exact issues and more. I'D like an anniversary party,  basically it sounds like a gypsy wedding with out a wedding dress. unfortunately my dreams of me being  in a wedding dress and holding a bouquet and him putting a wedding ring on my finger are forfeited.

Jen4948

GypsyBridetobe said:

Jen4948 said:

GypsyBridetobe said:

Simply Fated said:

The thing is, the goverment is involved in your relationship, whether or not you're married. KEEPING you from benefits, is involvement. His argument is illogical. I'm not saying you have to get married or should get married, just that his excuse makes zero sense. I'm not even sure what would be proper etiquette here. I mean, you've been together less time than me and my boyfriend and I've never felt we needed any kind of PPD for any reason. It's just not something I can relate to, I'm sorry. I do suggest Miss Manners, though. I think she balanced tradition with progression fairly well.

I understand your POV. its ok if you don't understand  the reasons why roma do things the way we do. Its very much a culture that doesn't really change in order  preserve customs and traditions and beliefs. things are done the way they've been done for hundreds of years. no  matter if it makes since now a days or not.

Here's the thing.  If you leave the government out of your marriage as your FI wants, you have no rights whatsoever.  If he throws you out, abuses you, dies, commits a crime and gets arrested, you do not have the legal protection of a wife. You would not be protected from having to testify against him and vice versa for example.

He also forgos the legal protection of a husband.  He can't step in for you if you end up in the hospital or otherwise act as your husband legally.  He can't block your own family from making decisions about you that he otherwise would get to have.

You and he may think that these things may never be necessary, but they may well be.

So, all that said, exactly how to celebrate an occasion that isn't really a "wedding" is something I don't know.

Thank you , however we understand and have talked about those exact issues and more. I'D like an anniversary party,  basically it sounds like a gypsy wedding with out a wedding dress. unfortunately my dreams of me being  in a wedding dress and holding a bouquet and him putting a wedding ring on my finger are forfeited.

It would seem so.  I'm sorry, but I think that if you're not having a wedding that could be considered legal or valid in Western tradition, then elements associated with that kind of wedding would be out of place for you.

I hope your FI is really a wonderful person otherwise, since he doesn't seem to care about any of your dreams.

PrettyGirlLost

Maggie0829 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

GypsyBridetobe said:

well its hard to tell. roma have basically a big party basically like a huge reception instead of a ceremony. the bride walks in wearing a normal gown. then changes into a wedding gown for the dancing and hand tying. 

Do you gals think it would be fine for @GypsyBrideto be since technically she never was married and isn't married.  It's not a PPD or a wedding do-over if you have never been married, right?

But my feeling is that they consider themselves married in the eyes of their culture so to have the full out Roma "wedding" would be a bit like a PPD, KWIM?

I still stick by a version of a vow renewal.  I don't know the traditions within a Roma wedding celebration but a few nice words to each other plus a hand-tying to show the continuance of your commitment to each other would be really nice.

Yep, I guess so.

GypsyWife_

im not doing a full on romaness wedding .. that would be a PPD. i would feel stupid. the only roma that will be in attendance is immediate family and a few 1 st.close cousins of his. the majority of guests are from my side and i am mexican.  . we are really blazing our own trail here. Im glad you all are being really helpfull.

STARMOON44

I recommend Miss Manners. But your stumbling block with continue to be that this is a PPD. You considered yourself married 8 years ago. This ceremony will not make you any more married culturally or legally. It's important to you seemingly because of the pretty? (unless I'm missing something, you want a bit of a fuss made, no?). I think the most etiquettely approved route would be a great anniversary party.

APDSS22

In reference to not having rights; this is true in the majority of the country.  Where there is some cloudiness is if you live in one of the few states with common law marriage still on the books. Then you have rights merely because you've lived as man and wife for a certain period of time (which depends on the state.) 

GypsyWife_

STARMOON44 said:

I recommend Miss Manners. But your stumbling block with continue to be that this is a PPD. You considered yourself married 8 years ago. This ceremony will not make you any more married culturally or legally. It's important to you seemingly because of the pretty? (unless I'm missing something, you want a bit of a fuss made, no?). I think the most etiquettely approved route would be a great anniversary party.

no it wont change anything . i would do a jop  if we ever changed our minds EDIT:(but thats  a huge IF, like when pigs fly). id be happy with that. but i want something. even if its a handtying with a birthday cake in our backyard. im all for the anniversary party. can he put a wedding ring on me durring the party? 

phira

Have you talked with him about what you want? What has he said?

Teddy917

Abbyjensen said:

Others might disagree with me, but this is my opinion.

While there are some things that are basic across cultures (treat people with respect, don't lie or deceive people, etc), I think etiquette is cultural. 

If you plan on inviting people from the "main" culture, I think you should take their etiquette into consideration, but if you are inviting people from your culture (and from what it sounds, your culture is quite exclusive, not blended with current American culture) then I think you should base whatever you do on your culture and your etiquette.

IMHO etiquette is not cultural. Etiquette is treating everyone with respect. Now everyone has their own traditions which are cultural. The two do often blend. Based on your traditions, you might think it's rude for a man to open a door for a woman, (just the first example that I thought of) so that would not be proper etiquette. But according to someone else's traditions that is polite, and therefore proper etiquette.

Maggie0829

STARMOON44 said:

I recommend Miss Manners. But your stumbling block with continue to be that this is a PPD. You considered yourself married 8 years ago. This ceremony will not make you any more married culturally or legally. It's important to you seemingly because of the pretty? (unless I'm missing something, you want a bit of a fuss made, no?). I think the most etiquettely approved route would be a great anniversary party.

no it wont change anything . i would do a jop  if we ever changed our minds EDIT:(but thats  a huge IF, like when pigs fly). id be happy with that. but i want something. even if its a handtying with a birthday cake in our backyard. im all for the anniversary party. can he put a wedding ring on me durring the party? 

I don't see why not. With a lot of vow renewals couples sometimes upgrade their rings and exchange them. He could just say something to the effect "with this ring I continue to..." or "this ring signifies my ongoing love..." or something like that.

ashleyep

STARMOON44 said:

I recommend Miss Manners. But your stumbling block with continue to be that this is a PPD. You considered yourself married 8 years ago. This ceremony will not make you any more married culturally or legally. It's important to you seemingly because of the pretty? (unless I'm missing something, you want a bit of a fuss made, no?). I think the most etiquettely approved route would be a great anniversary party.

Even if they did have a civil ceremony, wouldn't it still be a PPD in a sense? Civil marriage clearly isn't as important to them as the Roma marriage is, so even if they did get legally married, they were already "married," so to speak. It's not like they're having a second ceremony now that their marriage can be legal (like with gay marriage).

GypsyWife_

yes  he said no to a full on gypsy wedding with the 3 dress changes and the stago with the basso. but we can have a ceremony according to my traditions but he wont do the    marriage license. he wants a gypsy handtying wedding cake sitdown dinner. open bar. good dj. but he joked about me wearing white be cause we have kids.he allready bought me a wedding ring.