waiting is so painful, I really need advice.

[Deleted User]

I know my boyfriend is planning to propose. He has been dropping massive hints for months, and his best friend as much as confirmed it -- and even gave me a huge clue that my boyfriend is planning to ask on our anniversary. So why is this a big deal? Little background:

We started dating In November of last year. I know a year isn't much time, but I've never had a relationship like this. I think we both knew very early that eachother was just "the one." I've waited my whole life for this relationship, and I just know he feels the same way.

In May he started dropping tons of hints. He would always say "I wish I could spend more time to spend with you. Soon...." with a twinkle in his eye. ONce he even said "hint hint" and winked at me! (such a dork) Then, over the summer, he started applying for jobs in my town, and I started applying for jobs in his town (We live 45 minutes away, not awful, but a tad of a drive). Then he got a promotion, his roommates told him they are moving and he will need to find a new place soon (I own a Condo, and would love it if he would move in, but I have a very firm principle that I must be at least engaged before living with someone), and we were going on a cruise together at the beginning of August. All this stuff happened to just make it seem like the right time, and he kept dropping hints. Then, in mid July, my dad was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. So now, on top of everything seeming right, I have this ... urgency.

Maybe it sounds strange, but most of the fantasies I have about a wedding don't actually revolve around me or my husband, but, my dad. He is the one person I want to be at my wedding.

Then the cruise came ... and went, with no proposal. It was a wonderful cruise, but he broke my heart by not asking. And all the while he keeps telling me he wants to spend his life with me, but when I try and give him a lead-in for the question, he dodges it.

So I think he is waiting for our anniversary to ask, which, infuriates me. I think he thinks it will be romantic, but I feel like he is completely missing the big picture. I could care less about a calendar date! And frankly, for a 32 year old woman? I'm past celebrating dating anniversaries. They are depressing. After a year at this point in my life, it is time to move the relationship forward, or move on. I'm never married, and I want a family.

So why don't I tell him how I feel? If I suggest that he ask me, it will feel like I've prompted him, and artificial. Why don't I just ask? I think he will be disappointed... It's all so stupid. I'm actually a very good communicator in relationships--he's commented on it several times even--but this is ONE thing I want to come from him, 100%.

But I want my dad to be at my wedding. I just want my cake and eat it too.

I suppose I should just tell him how I feel, but I wish I could show you all how hard I've hit him over the head with the hint stick to GET ON WITH IT. I feel like I shouldn't have to "cheapen" the proposal by prompting him to do it (it feels so dumb to ask someone to ask something... why don't I just ask? Because in our culture, it's taboo GRRR)

And I absolutely hate the idea of an ultimatum. I'm much more likely to just walk away, than give an ultimatum. Besides, an ultimatum is just a woman asking the question, but in a much less romantic way.

Sorry for sounding so pathetic. I just came from seeing my dad in the hospital and I'm feeling very desperate right now. I get so angry he doesn't understand that I don't want him to wait (and this is the first thing I've ever really gotten mad at him for!). I know he's sure he's going to ask, it's just dumb to wait for a silly calendar date!

Any advice appreciated (but please assume I'm correct that he is certain he will ask me), but I'm especially looking for clever ways to nudge this along discreetly. I MUCH prefer open and direct communication, but in this case, I'm trying to preserve that magical moment, before I get too angry.

CLoGreenEyes

First, I am so sorry to hear about your dad. That is a lot to have on your mind, and I can't imagine how painful it is for you and your family. *Hugs*

It sounds like and your BF are in a good place to start talking about your future - looking for jobs, trying to get your living situation squared away, etc. That's good. It's also one of those things that can't be rushed, no matter what the reason. You feel uncomfortable waiting because there is no guarantee about your dad being able to be at a wedding too far out. Your BF might feel equally uncomfortable proposing when he doesn't have the job he feels is necessary to have a secure financial foundation for your marriage. Are they two different things on two different levels of readiness? Absolutely. But they are still both important and both need to factor into your joint decision about this.

I can certainly understand why you want to preserve the moment of the proposal. It's a special one! But there is no way to nudge it along subtly, and you're right, ultimatums are not a good fix either.

You are going to have to communicate with him about this: "BF, I know we have been talking about getting engaged and married. What's your idea on a timeline? Let's talk about what we both need to be ready for this." He tells you what's on his mind, you tell him what's on yours - including that, given your dad's diagnosis, you've realized how important it is to you that he be at your wedding. And you begin the dialogue.

I get that you want the proposal to be honest and genuine, and I don't think that telling him your concerns will make it not so. The decisions you make together for the rest of your lives will begin with contributions from you both. This one should too.

bethsmiles

First, I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. That must be very difficult. I'm extremely close to my dad and, like you, it's extremely important for me to have him at my wedding.

To be honest, I think you are being silly. You should be completely open and honest with your BF about how you are feeling. It's very immature to try to find ways into manipulating your BF into proposing sooner. Personally I don't understand how being 32 means dating anniversaries are silly but you are still so focused on a magical proposal that you won't discuss your feelings with the person you want to marry - those two lines of thought are just completely contradictory in my mind.

Additionally, you need to stop assuming things about when he will propose. It's really too bad you ruined your vacation with the expectation of a proposal. I don't know when he will propose but it might not be on your anniversary but I would hope you wouldn't want to ruin anything else he might have planned by moping about not getting engaged on that specific day.

It's a little unclear from your post but have the two of you actually discussed marriage at all? Or just hints and mentions of it?

KeptInStitches

First, like PP, I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. You and your family will be in my thoughts.

You need to talk about how you're feeling with your BF, especially where marriage is concerned.

Otherwise, try to take up some hobbies to distract you. Maybe some volunteering, too?

[Deleted User]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts about my dad. He is the most active, optimistic person I know. He was so healthy, and still young at 64. It's really unbearable.

There is something I didn't include in my original post; I was in an 11 year relationship before that went nowhere. We lived together, talked about our future all the time, but there was never really a true commitment. For this reason, I'm very wary of living together, or talking about a future in concrete terms, BEFORE there is a clear commitment. I'm fine with talking about what my goals in life are, and learning what his are, but I'm very afraid to start talking about "us" in a joined, co-habitation sort of way unless there is a concrete commitment that's been expressed.

By the way, I have been very clear with him about this strong value of mine.

Amapola14 said:

You are going to have to communicate with him about this: "BF, I know we have been talking about getting engaged and married. What's your idea on a timeline? Let's talk about what we both need to be ready for this." He tells you what's on his mind, you tell him what's on yours - including that, given your dad's diagnosis, you've realized how important it is to you that he be at your wedding. And you begin the dialogue.

I get that you want the proposal to be honest and genuine, and I don't think that telling him your concerns will make it not so. The decisions you make together for the rest of your lives will begin with contributions from you both. This one should too.

I've already known what you told me all along, It's just, beginning this conversation has been hard for me. I really appreciate your comments, they have started my mind going in the right direction to get breach this subject. Thank you for the much needed clarity of thought.

I have realized, thinking about this, my main block is this: every time I try and picture myself starting this conversation and what I want to say, it devolves into an ultimatum. The reality is, I DO have a time limit. If he isn't willing to commit after a certain (fast approaching) time, I will be gone. The actual intention here... really does look an awful lot like an ultimatum. But do DO NOT WANT to present it that way! A proposal that results from an ultimatum will be absolutely sour for both of us.

How do I say this, gently, without pressure, but clearly enough that he understands my needs?

----------------------------------------------------

bethsmiles said:

To be honest, I think you are being silly. You should be completely open and honest with your BF about how you are feeling. It's very immature to try to find ways into manipulating your BF into proposing sooner. Personally I don't understand how being 32 means dating anniversaries are silly but you are still so focused on a magical proposal that you won't discuss your feelings with the person you want to marry - those two lines of thought are just completely contradictory in my mind.

Yes, I know it's silly. I'm not trying to manipulate him-- I see manipulation as getting them to do something they don't want to do. I tried to explain in my post that I'm just trying to be subtle about letting him know that it's more important to me that he ask me sooner. I believe if he understood this, he would WANT, himself, to ask sooner. Of course, communicating this to him is my problem. I'm used to being direct, but in this case, there are potential costs to directness (sounding like an ultimatum).

Dating anniversaries are discouraging to me at this stage in my life, because of something I've noticed in recent years -Sometimes during smalltalk, people will probe conversationally about my relationship. More often recently, I've noticed the phrases "do you want children?" and "how old are you?" and "you still have time." are included. I've been really sensitive about this even BEFORE I started noticing people asking these questions. Before starting to date him, I decided that I really, biologically, could not afford much more than a year with anyone at this point. If we're not ready to move forward after a year, it is time to start putting myself back out there again. I really want a family. Hence, a one year dating anniversary creates ... complex feelings for me.

I'm not actually focused on a magical proposal, I'm sorry you got that impression. In fact, I don't even care about a ring! What I really want, is an HONEST proposal. That is part of the reason for my hesitation about "prompting him." I really really want to feel like this is what he wants. I'm actually scared that the cancer will make him rush something he pictured going differently in his mind. Please appreciate how conflicting these feelings are -- I SO badly want a genuine proposal that I didn't "pressure him into"--even with an "honest" conversation, but I also SO BADLY want my dad to see me get married.

Please also don't misunderstand -- I really do WANT to discuss our future. As I explained in the beginning of this reply, that's why I'm so keen on a proposal. For me, engagement is the appropriate time to begin the serious dialogue about that. I mean, that's what an engagement IS. It's a proposal for marriage. You propose to spend your life with someone... so naturally you would want to thoroughly explore the implications before sealing the deal with marriage. Engagement isn't marriage, it's a trial period. But at the same time, I'm not going to give someone the security of knowing they will "have me," without really committing to me. "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?" was a very painful reality for me for a long time, and it has shaped my values strongly.

bethsmiles said:

Additionally, you need to stop assuming things about when he will propose. It's really too bad you ruined your vacation with the expectation of a proposal. I don't know when he will propose but it might not be on your anniversary but I would hope you wouldn't want to ruin anything else he might have planned by moping about not getting engaged on that specific day.

I'm not really assuming things. I have "inside information" lol. And our vacation wasn't ruined! I said the cruise was wonderful, and it was. It is a delightful memory that is untainted, and I will always treasure. The fact that I was disappointed there wasn't an engagement was an isolated emotion, I truly relished all the time and experiences we had together on our cruise.

Your sentiment about not ruining anything though, about what he might have planned, is *precisely* why this is so important to me. I don't want to either, so I'm very nervous about bringing up the topic -- I don't want to disappoint, or spoil, or "give away" any surprises he might have planned. That's the main reason I posted here. I was looking for advice and strategies on how to deal with the unwanted frustration I feel about having to wait. (I wish you had spoken more to that request, instead of mostly just criticize the way I feel. )

And no. We haven't discussed marriage concretely, but we have frequently shared our hopes and dreams, wishes for family, and ideals about cohabitation, and they are very well aligned. As I explained, I feel a serious discussion about marriage is a natural progression after a proposal for that marriage you wish to discuss.

[Deleted User]

Amapola14 said:

I get that you want the proposal to be honest and genuine, and I don't think that telling him your concerns will make it not so.

This has been nagging me ... why not? I know he cares about me, if he sees that I'm scared my dad won't be there... why shouldn't I be afraid that he might fudge emotional honesty with himself, and propose marriage before he wanted to? This is actually a very legitimate fear of mine, and a significant part of the reason I've held back talking to him about this. Even a very honest and un-manipulative confession about my feelings from me, could place pressure on him to ask me something before he wanted to.

bethsmiles

I guess I don't really know how you help you because I can't imagine getting engaged with having serious discussion about how our marriage will work, our future plans/goals together, how to parent future children, etc. first.

I think you are WAY over-thinking this. I've been discussing marriage with my BF for a few years at this point. We plan out our future together. He doesn't feel pressured to propose before he's ready (obviously since it's been almost 5 years!).

You seem very sure that he is going to propose on your anniversary. If you discuss your feelings with him, if you are honest with him is there the chance he would move up his planned proposal? Possibly. But that doesn't necessarily make it less honest of a proposal if the same feelings are there.

loves2shop4shoes

istril said:

I know my boyfriend is planning to propose. He has been dropping massive hints for months, and his best friend as much as confirmed it -- and even gave me a huge clue that my boyfriend is planning to ask on our anniversary. So why is this a big deal? Little background:

We started dating In November of last year. I know a year isn't much time, but I've never had a relationship like this. I think we both knew very early that eachother was just "the one." I've waited my whole life for this relationship, and I just know he feels the same way.

In May he started dropping tons of hints. He would always say "I wish I could spend more time to spend with you. Soon...." with a twinkle in his eye. ONce he even said "hint hint" and winked at me! (such a dork) Then, over the summer, he started applying for jobs in my town, and I started applying for jobs in his town (We live 45 minutes away, not awful, but a tad of a drive). Then he got a promotion, his roommates told him they are moving and he will need to find a new place soon (I own a Condo, and would love it if he would move in, but I have a very firm principle that I must be at least engaged before living with someone), and we were going on a cruise together at the beginning of August. All this stuff happened to just make it seem like the right time, and he kept dropping hints. Then, in mid July, my dad was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. So now, on top of everything seeming right, I have this ... urgency.

Maybe it sounds strange, but most of the fantasies I have about a wedding don't actually revolve around me or my husband, but, my dad. He is the one person I want to be at my wedding.

Then the cruise came ... and went, with no proposal. It was a wonderful cruise, but he broke my heart by not asking. And all the while he keeps telling me he wants to spend his life with me, but when I try and give him a lead-in for the question, he dodges it.

So I think he is waiting for our anniversary to ask, which, infuriates me. I think he thinks it will be romantic, but I feel like he is completely missing the big picture. I could care less about a calendar date! And frankly, for a 32 year old woman? I'm past celebrating dating anniversaries. They are depressing. After a year at this point in my life, it is time to move the relationship forward, or move on. I'm never married, and I want a family.

So why don't I tell him how I feel? If I suggest that he ask me, it will feel like I've prompted him, and artificial. Why don't I just ask? I think he will be disappointed... It's all so stupid. I'm actually a very good communicator in relationships--he's commented on it several times even--but this is ONE thing I want to come from him, 100%.

But I want my dad to be at my wedding. I just want my cake and eat it too.

I suppose I should just tell him how I feel, but I wish I could show you all how hard I've hit him over the head with the hint stick to GET ON WITH IT. I feel like I shouldn't have to "cheapen" the proposal by prompting him to do it (it feels so dumb to ask someone to ask something... why don't I just ask? Because in our culture, it's taboo GRRR)

And I absolutely hate the idea of an ultimatum. I'm much more likely to just walk away, than give an ultimatum. Besides, an ultimatum is just a woman asking the question, but in a much less romantic way.

Sorry for sounding so pathetic. I just came from seeing my dad in the hospital and I'm feeling very desperate right now. I get so angry he doesn't understand that I don't want him to wait (and this is the first thing I've ever really gotten mad at him for!). I know he's sure he's going to ask, it's just dumb to wait for a silly calendar date!

Any advice appreciated (but please assume I'm correct that he is certain he will ask me), but I'm especially looking for clever ways to nudge this along discreetly. I MUCH prefer open and direct communication, but in this case, I'm trying to preserve that magical moment, before I get too angry.

Oh my God.  There's so much in this post to address that it's difficult to know where to start.

First, I am so sorry to hear about your dad.  That has got to be so difficult and I'm sorry you're going through that.

Next, you need to put things into perspective.  You said, "After a year at this point in my life, it is time to move the relationship forward, or move on."  You have been dating for NINE MONTHS.  How can you say this with a straight face after NINE MONTHS?  If he wants to wait until your anniversary, maybe it's because HE has issues getting engaged to someone he's been with less than a year. 

You seem to be talking a lot about how YOU feel in all of this, but what about how HE feels?  Maybe he's not 100% ready.  You can know that he is THE one, and he can know that you are THE one without him being ready to propose NOWNOWNOW.  Maybe you should communicate with him and see where he is in all of this.

Your heart was broken on your cruise because you assigned expectations to your relationship without even doing your BF the decency of letting him know that you'd done so.  You should never do that.  It won't end well.

You also assigned yourself the arbitrary rule that you refuse to live with someone you're not engaged to, even if you know he's The One.  That's your problem.  Not his.  He shouldn't be expected to expedite the relationship's natural timeline, or a timeline he feels comfortable with, because you HAVE to be engaged before moving in.

And the dad situation...I understand why you feel the urgency now that your dad is sick.  I really do.  But at the same time, the goal of a wedding is to have a successful marriage.  You have a successful marriage when you have a successful, healthy relationship.  You have a successful, healthy relationship when you follow timelines that BOTH parties are comfortable with and communicate effectively.  So, while your dad being present at your wedding is important, the overall health of your future marriage is more important.  You NEED to not rush your engagement/relationship timeline because of your father's illness.  If your BF isn't 100% ready to get engaged/married, you shouldn't get married.  Rushing into a marriage one of you isn't ready for so that your dad will be there will not be good for your marriage.

In short, you need to stop rushing your relationship.  You need to communicate about how your BF feels about the relationship timeline and respect where he is.  After all, it's only been 9 months.  Communicate.  Stop rushing.  Stop making all of these expectations.  You're only setting yourself up for disappointment.  And stop making arbitrary rules and using them as an excuse to rush your relationship.

leia1979

istril said:

[snip]

So I think he is waiting for our anniversary to ask, which, infuriates me. I think he thinks it will be romantic, but I feel like he is completely missing the big picture. I could care less about a calendar date! And frankly, for a 32 year old woman? I'm past celebrating dating anniversaries. They are depressing. After a year at this point in my life, it is time to move the relationship forward, or move on. I'm never married, and I want a family.

[snip]

First off, I'm sorry that your dad is ill, but I'm not entirely sure what you want. If your BF proposed this weekend, would you then schedule the wedding for October? (And "yes" is a valid answer to that question--I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from that the few months between now and your anniversary is such a big deal.)

The part of your post quoted above irks me, especially as someone older than you. This isn't Victorian England. You aren't an old maid withering away. You're only 32, and celebrating a one-year dating anniversary shouldn't be depressing. As @loves2shop4shoes says above, your BF might not be comfortable proposing to someone he's been with for less than a year. That's not unreasonable. I can see how your previous relationship has colored your views, but I think it's also making you swing too far in the other direction. Marriage is a big deal and is worth serious consideration before rushing headlong into it.

[Deleted User]

loves2shop4shoes said:

Next, you need to put things into perspective.  You said, "After a year at this point in my life, it is time to move the relationship forward, or move on."  You have been dating for NINE MONTHS.  How can you say this with a straight face after NINE MONTHS?  If he wants to wait until your anniversary, maybe it's because HE has issues getting engaged to someone he's been with less than a year. 

No, that's not my concern. I am pretty confident that he is comfortable with engagement. I realize 9 months seems short, but please review my explanation for this. My concern is that he has decided on a course of action, but his timeline is... misinformed, with respect to what would make me happy, which I believe is a guiding principle in his decision. (and yes the more I explain this the more ridiculous it is to me that I haven't just talked to him about this. I've explained why elsewhere in the thread).

loves2shop4shoes said:

You seem to be talking a lot about how YOU feel in all of this, but what about how HE feels?  Maybe he's not 100% ready.  You can know that he is THE one, and he can know that you are THE one without him being ready to propose NOWNOWNOW.  Maybe you should communicate with him and see where he is in all of this.

That's exactly why this is hard. I want his proposal to be genuine, and what HE wants! By the way, ... I know I"m talking a lot about how I feel, but I also feel like my concern about how HE feels is what is  constraining me! Again, this is a very unique situation for me, normally I communicate very directly and openly. In short, I've really begun to resent American engagement culture.

loves2shop4shoes said:

Your heart was broken on your cruise because you assigned expectations to your relationship without even doing your BF the decency of letting him know that you'd done so.  You should never do that.  It won't end well.

Don't I know it. I could have cursed myself. I'm usually the one preaching about avoiding unspoken expectations. No argument from me on this one.

loves2shop4shoes said:

You also assigned yourself the arbitrary rule that you refuse to live with someone you're not engaged to, even if you know he's The One.  That's your problem.  Not his.  He shouldn't be expected to expedite the relationship's natural timeline, or a timeline he feels comfortable with, because you HAVE to be engaged before moving in.

Whoa. "Arbitrary?" There was NOTHING arbitrary about this rule. It was learned from experience, hard experience, and has been affirmed by conventional wisdom AS WELL AS science! This principle of mine is one I defend very tenaciously, and is extremely deliberate and well thought out. Arbitrary is exactly the opposite of how I feel about it.

I absolutely do not expect him to expedite anything if he isn't ready. All I did was communicate my values. If he isn't comfortable with them, if he wants to live with someone before engagement, well, he knew this about me within the first few WEEKS of our relationship. He had every freedom to go elsewhere, early on.

Moving in before a serious commitment is a great tragedy of modern relationships, imo, and has unfortunately compromised many marriages. But this is a topic for another thread. Sorry, I'm not budging on this one.

loves2shop4shoes said:

So, while your dad being present at your wedding is important, the overall health of your future marriage is more important.  You NEED to not rush your engagement/relationship timeline because of your father's illness.  If your BF isn't 100% ready to get engaged/married, you shouldn't get married.  

This is really the core of my internal conflict. I agree with this 100%. I'm just absolutely stumped on how to resolve it. I feel like he IS 100% ready, he is just misguided on what he thinks will make me happy (a romantic anniversary proposal). In that light, ... having my dad miss my wedding is just ... nonsensical.

So, in response to your summary... yes, I do recognize I need to communicate better about this. I'm just ... really having hard time figuring out how to do that, without it sounding like an ultimatum.

However, I do not feel that I'm not rushing anything. 9 months is short for you, but at this point for OUR relationship, it has begun to feel ... stalled. He has already stated, with great conviction, that he wants to spend his life with me. Whenever I mention that things feel like they are on hold he says, "I know, ... soon" MADDENING. I know he thinks he's soothing me, but he's stoking the fire! GAH!

Believe me, this delay is guided by his idea of a perfect proposal date, and that is really what is bothering me. I was afraid people would respond based on their perceived interpretation, that he isn't ready, instead of what I asked. ehh. He's ready. He's just ... an well-intentioned but unobservant male.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, though, I do appreciate your advice! I think I already knew it subconsciously, but this thread has really forced me to plan to talk to him about this directly. I'm still trying to figure out how, though. How do I communicate a timeline, that I really am committed to, without it sounding like an ultimatum?

Also, please, don't assume my principles are arbitrary and being used as excuses. That really hit a nerve... it is a very strong core value of mine, and one that was informed by experience. ... and science! lol ... but srsly. it was. empirical science.

[Deleted User]

leia1979 said:

First off, I'm sorry that your dad is ill, but I'm not entirely sure what you want. If your BF proposed this weekend, would you then schedule the wedding for October? (And "yes" is a valid answer to that question--I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from that the few months between now and your anniversary is such a big deal.)

The part of your post quoted above irks me, especially as someone older than you. This isn't Victorian England. You aren't an old maid withering away. You're only 32, and celebrating a one-year dating anniversary shouldn't be depressing. As @loves2shop4shoes says above, your BF might not be comfortable proposing to someone he's been with for less than a year. That's not unreasonable. I can see how your previous relationship has colored your views, but I think it's also making you swing too far in the other direction. Marriage is a big deal and is worth serious consideration before rushing headlong into it.

Your comments about timeline are noted. TBH, I've felt myself thinking the same thing -- WTH  will a few months make? I know, it probably isn't rational, but to be honest with you... the news we got at the hospital today was unexpectedly bad, and has probably significantly shortened things. As in, yes, months really may matter now. However, I knew the nature of the cancer from the beginning, and talked about how quickly things could go south. On the other hand, I get what you are saying. Why on earth would I rush something as important as marriage. I appreciate that... I suppose not all my thoughts are rational atm, so thanks for the perspective. I need to think about this to really wrap my head around it though... It's very, very hard to watch your dad waste away and NOT feel ... urgency, no matter how irrational.

As to being 32.... ok. Lets say he proposes TOMORROW.  by the time I'm married I will be 33. I do NOT want to rush into having kids immediately, I think it is very important to settle in and establish a lifestyle with my husband first before we introduce children into the equation. Say... 2 years. Now I'm 35. And as we all know, 35 is the magical age where fertility problems start to set in. I ALSO have a medical condition that affects fertility. Old Maid? No. Withering away? No. Legitimate concerns about fertility? ... yes.

I'm sorry if this comment made you uncomfortable, but, it's not like I'm making these numbers up. Please forgive my sensitivity to it...but I have to say it's not like an un-married, *un-engagaed* woman of my age is unique to these concerns. For heaven's sake, the chit-chat I have engaged in with the general populace has made that explicitly clear.

[Deleted User]

I just want to reiterate -- please, if you would like to help me, understand I really do not doubt his certainty. I know he wants to get married. What I need help with is communicating the TIMELINE, not establishing "certaintly." That just isn't my issue.

bethsmiles

istril said:

 In short, I've really begun to resent American engagement culture.

What does this mean?

bethsmiles

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, though, I do appreciate your advice! I think I already knew it subconsciously, but this thread has really forced me to plan to talk to him about this directly. I'm still trying to figure out how, though. How do I communicate a timeline, that I really am committed to, without it sounding like an ultimatum?

I think your problem is that you want to dictate a timeline to him so of course it will come out as an ultimatum. What you need is to decide on one TOGETHER - something that works for both of you. You don't need to address it as "hey I'm leaving if you don't propose by X" You can approach it as "I know we've sort of talked about marriage but I'd really like to discuss it with you. When do you think you'd like to get married? As you know I'm really concerned about my dad's health and it's important to me that he can be there."

[Deleted User]

bethsmiles said:

istril said:

 In short, I've really begun to resent American engagement culture.

What does this mean?

Fed up with men dropping stupid amounts of money on a piece of jewelry that is worth 20% of what they paid for it the minute they step out the store; hate feeling like I have to wait for THEM to ask ME; hate feeling like I have to play along to let them "suprise me" with a proposal. I'm really good at being open and honest about things that are important to me in a relationship. Can't we just have a normal discussion, and at the end, decide if we are engaged? Why does it have to be an ordeal? I'm terrible at dancing around all these traditional gender roles, lol.

You are totally right. I've been thinking about this very selfishly, about what I want, and the timeline I'm on. I need to make this more of a give and take. Just because I have real concerns about my timeline, doesn't mean that if I express them, I'm demanding them. He's still free to "negotiate" with me.

CLoGreenEyes

You need to trust your partner to look out for himself as well as for you during this conversation. You keep saying you want him to be honest - well, give him a chance to be! If you straight-up asked him to marry you today, do you think he would say yes just to pacify you? Probably not...Unless you keep picking at the issue.

istril said:

Whenever I mention that things feel like they are on hold he says, "I know, ... soon" MADDENING. I know he thinks he's soothing me, but he's stoking the fire! GAH!

The bolded is a vague statement to make. You are getting a vague response. If you want him to give you something more than "soon," you need to tell him more than "I feel like things are on hold."

Swazzle

Waiting is painful? Really? It shouldn't be painful, you should be enjoying spending time with your SO and building your relationship. 

When you imagine your wedding day, the #1 thing in your mind should be about marrying the man you want to spend the rest of your life with. I am so sorry that your father is sick, I really am, but your wedding is about you and your future husband. 

Having a discussion about your future should not and does not have to be an ultimatum. It's about being on the same page with your relationship and understanding the other person's wants and needs as far as your future together is concerned. 

KeptInStitches

If you're having that much trouble communicating about your expectations, would it maybe be worth a few sessions of couples counseling to help sort out a mutual timeline?

buddysmom80

OP, I'm really sorry what's going on with you dad, cancer sucks.

Now, to your posts. I'll be honest, I skimmed through some, read most, but I think you and I have a few things in common, so I just wanted to give you some "been there, done that" advice.

First of all, waiting is not painful. I just checked, I'm not in pain. I actually feel pretty happy right now. I wake up every morning to my BF and our little fur family and we enjoy every day of our relationship. Ups and downs included (including this moning when he gave me Big Brother spoilers, anyway...).

I was in a seven year relationship with someone. My whole 20's were spent with this guy with empty promises. When push came to shove, we broke up, but I learned my lesson about setting up a timeline and sticking with it or re-evaluating it down the road.

So now I'm 33, I've been with my BF for over 2.5 years, we've been living together almost a year. On our last anniversary we casually discussed a timeline. It was both of us, not "oh I'm so old, I can only date someone for a year because I want babies." or "if I'm not engaged by the end of the year, you better pack your shit!" I think I'm not in any rush with having kids because my mom had me at 34 and my paternal grandmother had my dad at 36, so my biological clock isn't ticking too bad. We came up with a timeline and so far we are sticking with it. And it was an overall timeline with things we wanted to do, stuff we wanted to do with the house, etc.

Whatever you do, don't give him an ultimatum, because you might just end up waiting for the next boyfriend.

Swazzle

istril said:

loves2shop4shoes said:

You also assigned yourself the arbitrary rule that you refuse to live with someone you're not engaged to, even if you know he's The One.  That's your problem.  Not his.  He shouldn't be expected to expedite the relationship's natural timeline, or a timeline he feels comfortable with, because you HAVE to be engaged before moving in.

Whoa. "Arbitrary?" There was NOTHING arbitrary about this rule. It was learned from experience, hard experience, and has been affirmed by conventional wisdom AS WELL AS science! This principle of mine is one I defend very tenaciously, and is extremely deliberate and well thought out. Arbitrary is exactly the opposite of how I feel about it.

I would like proof as to where exactly "science" affirms this rule of yours. 

minskat30

There is a lot to this post but I really want to address your Dad.  I'm really sorry to hear about his cancer.  What are the doctor's saying as far as his options/time?  I can relate to your situation in many ways.  My Dad was diagnoised with extensive small cell lung cancer (which is pretty much always terminal within a year) before my H and I got engaged.  I loved my Dad and having him walk me down the aisle was one of the very few things I wanted in a wedding...a wedding is important but a marriage is much more so.  My Dad did get to see me engaged but never walked me down the aisle (he died about a month and half before the wedding).  It was painful beyond words but I'm 100% happy that my H didn't rush to propose or rush to wed because of my Dad's diagnoisis.  A marriage is for life (at least for us), a wedding is just one (albeit, important) day. 

You can talk to your SO about this relationship in a meaningful way but you have to respect the fact that he might not be ready to propose (and nine months, even at 32, is a short time within which to expect a proposal).  If you truly think he is just waiting for an aniversary to make it romantic you can sit down with him and tell him that you want him to propose when he is ready but you are ready to live the rest of your life with him and that watching your Dad go through his illness has made it clear to you how short life can be.  I'm not sure why you can't sit down with your SO (without it resulting in ultimatums) and ask for a rough timeline of when he thinks he will be ready to propose, how long he was thinking he would like to be engaged, when he would like to start a family, etc.  I did this with my H before we married (and, even after marriage, that timeline is flexible by the way and depends on life's circumstances...it isn't set in stone with one party enforcing it).  I'm in my 30s so, again, I relate to the internal timeline (regarding kids) but you seemed to have developed in your mind without consulting your SO about it.  Again, when does he want to have kids?  You can't dictate these important decisions on your own, you have to jointly make them (and revisit them if need be).  In order to do that, you have to understand where he is coming from and have a conversation about these issues.

Edited to add...please spend this time with your Dad and cherish it instead of worrying about a proposal.  I know you want him there at the wedding (I truly, truly know how you feel) but remember that the wedding is just one day and you have all the days in front of you that God gives you to spend with your Dad and make memories now.  Cherish the time you have. And, again, I'm really sorry about the cancer.  It really sucks.

cu97tiger

istril said:

leia1979 said:

First off, I'm sorry that your dad is ill, but I'm not entirely sure what you want. If your BF proposed this weekend, would you then schedule the wedding for October? (And "yes" is a valid answer to that question--I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from that the few months between now and your anniversary is such a big deal.)

The part of your post quoted above irks me, especially as someone older than you. This isn't Victorian England. You aren't an old maid withering away. You're only 32, and celebrating a one-year dating anniversary shouldn't be depressing. As @loves2shop4shoes says above, your BF might not be comfortable proposing to someone he's been with for less than a year. That's not unreasonable. I can see how your previous relationship has colored your views, but I think it's also making you swing too far in the other direction. Marriage is a big deal and is worth serious consideration before rushing headlong into it.

Your comments about timeline are noted. TBH, I've felt myself thinking the same thing -- WTH  will a few months make? I know, it probably isn't rational, but to be honest with you... the news we got at the hospital today was unexpectedly bad, and has probably significantly shortened things. As in, yes, months really may matter now. However, I knew the nature of the cancer from the beginning, and talked about how quickly things could go south. On the other hand, I get what you are saying. Why on earth would I rush something as important as marriage. I appreciate that... I suppose not all my thoughts are rational atm, so thanks for the perspective. I need to think about this to really wrap my head around it though... It's very, very hard to watch your dad waste away and NOT feel ... urgency, no matter how irrational.

As to being 32.... ok. Lets say he proposes TOMORROW.  by the time I'm married I will be 33. I do NOT want to rush into having kids immediately, I think it is very important to settle in and establish a lifestyle with my husband first before we introduce children into the equation. Say... 2 years. Now I'm 35. And as we all know, 35 is the magical age where fertility problems start to set in. I ALSO have a medical condition that affects fertility. Old Maid? No. Withering away? No. Legitimate concerns about fertility? ... yes.

I'm sorry if this comment made you uncomfortable, but, it's not like I'm making these numbers up. Please forgive my sensitivity to it...but I have to say it's not like an un-married, *un-engagaed* woman of my age is unique to these concerns. For heaven's sake, the chit-chat I have engaged in with the general populace has made that explicitly clear.

You should do a little more research into getting pregnant after age 35. For example, here, here and here. The studies that quote lower fertility rates for women age >35 are from the late 1800's, early 1900's and keep being quoted as truth. 

I met my husband at age 32, we got married at age 36, because that was when HE was ready (I was ready about two years earlier). If I had traded in our current happiness for a future possible child, I would have severely damaged our relationship. He might have gone along with it, but my guess is it would not have ended well. So I think you need to ask yourself if you are putting the cart before the horse.

KateJ16

I'm so sorry to hear about your dad

To a certain extent, I understand where you are coming from.  I know my BF has talked to my parents, I know he went ring shopping, etc.  But nothing has happened.  And this was AFTER he and I talked timelines... and the time he mentioned has come, and gone.

But - as a person who suffers from anxiety when I don't know what's going on - just talk to him.  I actually talked to my BF last night (again) - letting him know that this was in no way me pushing him, but that for my own peace of mind I just had to have some sort of idea of when this might happen (i.e. September?  October?) so I can calm the anxious part of my brain down.

I think you need to do something similar with your BF - no leading questions, no leading "openings" - just as simple as "I want you to know that I'm not trying pressure or give an ultimatum, but with the things that have been going on recently, I would like to have a discussion about how our future is going to go".  Keep it open.  During this you should be able to explain your feelings surrounding your dad and everything else.

Trust me - I know this can totally be uncomfortable (something that my counseling is helping me deal with) - but if he loves you and truly knows you, you'll be surprised how easy it is once you say those first few words to just start the conversation.

CASK85

This is going to sound harsh, but if you're thinking your BF needs to marry you ASAP so that your dad can be at the wedding and if BF doesn't get with the program you're going to leave him. . . doesn't that still result in your dad not getting to be at your wedding too? I mean, unless you intend on dumping current BF and then going out and finding someone to marry in a few short months. Breaking up with your BF because he isn't proposing fast enough for your dad to see it isn't going to solve the "problem." It seems to me like you're using your dad's illness as an excuse to rush the engagement. Which is horrible, and I sincerely doubt that is your intention, but that is what it all adds up to in my head. 

Sorry if I've restated anything anyone else said - I didn't read through all the responses. 

lennonkdc

OP, I know you have you're 'rule'about cohabiting before engagement, based on a prior situation (Which is bullshit b/c you're punishing your current BF for the failings of your last one, which is really unfair.) But what if your BF has a rule that he must live with his partner before proposing? Have you even asked him HIS thoughts and feelings on the subject? What if living together is an important step for him so he and feel comfortable proposing? 

Waiting might seem painful b/c you are keeping yourself in the dark about his thoughts and feelings for the sake of wanting some childish 'perfect proposal'. Almost every poster on her had talks with their FI's or H's about their thoughts and feelings about getting engaged and married, and if you polled them you'd find that NONE of them felt the proposal was less genuine or authentic or special. So how do you talk to your BF without it sounding like an ultimatum? Well, you vag up an talk about your feelings (this is the man you want to MARRY for fucks sake, if you can't have an honest conversation with him about how you feel then you've got problems.) You say: BF, I'm so happy to be your GF and I I love the life we're building together. I know it early, but my Dad's situation has made me realize how short life is, and I'd like to talk about what you see for us as the future unfolds. Then, you LISTEN to him. He might say that he see marriage and kids down the line in 2-3 year, but needs a job first or a place to live first or to go sky diving first you might get an answer you don't like.  If that happens you simply thank him for sharing and mull it over. The way its doesn't devolve into giving an ultimatum is by NOT GIVING ONE. 

phira

I'm really sorry to hear about your dad. It's an overwhelming understatement to say that cancer sucks.

You need to take a deep breath and sort out what you want here. You're upset because someone you love is sick and dying, and you're upset because you think you're old (you're not). You're upset because after one long, middling relationship that didn't go anywhere, you're anxious for this one to go somewhere.

It sounds like you have some seriously clear-cut rules about what you want that might not really work for you. You say that you need to be engaged before you can live together (claiming incorrectly that it's been scientifically shown to be the right way to do it--this scientist says NOPE). You say that it's so important that your dad to be at your wedding that you'd consider dumping your boyfriend if he won't marry you in time (@cschiano hits the nail on the head here).

There are no rules. You don't have to be engaged before you live together. Your dad might not be at your wedding. These are things that you want, but you are a person in the real world dating another person who has his own wants and needs.

You need to talk openly with your boyfriend about your expectations. Hint-dropping is not a healthy way to communicate about important parts of your relationship. You need to be able to say things like, "You've been making these comments a lot, and I want to talk about what you mean by them. Do you think you want to get engaged soon? I think I'd like to be engaged soon, too. I'd prefer to be engaged before we live together, but I think I'm ready for both of those things."

You need to consider finding a counselor. Your father is very sick, and you need help coping. I don't really see this as, "istril has to have her father at her wedding so she'll rush this relationship to make sure that happens." I see it as, "istril is devastated because her father is ill and needs support."

There's a Scrubs episode where the mother of a character dies unexpectedly; the character, who is engaged, decides that she wants to get married NOW. Before the quicky wedding happens, her fiance gets the courage to talk to her about the situation, to help her realize that she's rushing the wedding because she's having trouble coping with losing a family member.

The point? It's not a HORRIBLE thing to push up a wedding date to make sure a loved one can be there, but often people rush things because they're having trouble coping. I think you're having trouble coping.

[Deleted User]

I want to thank everyone for your comments and advice so far. I'd like to respond to some things people have said (bolded for skimmers):

When I posted last night I was feeling a lot of grief about my dad. Intellectually, I realize that it is insane to rush a wedding because my dad is dying. Emotionally, it is a different story. But I agree with those of you 100% that it is a terrible idea to rush the wedding for my dad's sake. After a nights sleep, though, I feel like I have calmed down emotionally, and the rationality has set back in. I feel much more at ease about this. I will not compromise a marriage just to have my dad present for the wedding. Thanks VERY much to minskat 30 for the perspective.

I really do consider myself a good communicator. I'm usually very honest and open about how I feel, and he has commented many times how this is the best communication he's ever had in a relationship. This difficulty in disclosing how I feel with him on this ONE issue is a total oddity for me, and I think that is part of the reason it is so distressing for me. Trying to understand why I'm having a hard time "vagging up" and having this conversation is a big reason why I posted here. (skip to the end of you want my insight.)

I know it may have come across this way, but please stop assuming I want a "magical" proposal. I used that term more tongue in cheek in my original post. I want a genuine proposal that I don't feel like I prompted, not a "perfect" one.

With respect to my wish to have a family before I get too old, I want to thank cu97tiger for the links. However, I had actually already read most of those articles a while ago. You will notice that while the articles downplay the conventional wisdom of age (which was definitely reassuring), they do acknowledge that increased age DOES come with increased risks. And without going into too much detail, I want to remind you that I DO have a medical condition that will impact my fertility at a quicker rate as I get older than women who don't have this condition.

As far as not wanting to spend more time than a year in a relationship at this stage in my life... actually, this would have become an issue with or without my dad's cancer. Those two things don't really have anything to do with eachother. I'm confused at people's suggestions on negotiating on this... it is my body, and my fertility. Do you suggest he has a heart to heart with my uterus and explain that he's not ready to move forward yet, so please keep those eggs primed and ready for when he is? No. I have an older friend, who is 41, who had this mentality all the way through her 30's, and she has terrible regret now that she wasted so much time relationships that wouldn't commit, and now she has no children. Again, I'm not suggesting that he rush into anything he's not ready for, but it's also not fair to expect me to waste my most fertile years. If he can't accept that, moving on is always another option for him.

My principles on cohabitation have nothing to do with punishing anyone. There is actually a healthy body of evidence that shows cohabitation before marriage can weaken commitment, and is associated with an increased chance for divorce. Recently however, research has suggested that it isn't cohabitation before marriage that raises chances for divorce, it is cohabitation before *commitment* (which includes engagement, not just marriage).Cohabitation before marriage? It's no greater divorce risk. -- New divorce and marriage research shows that cohabitation before marriage carries no extra risk of divorce - at least not when a couple plans to get married.
Does living together before marriage lead to divorce?
The downside of cohabitation before marriage.
And lots more.


So my take-away at this point? I had an incorrect assumption that telling him what I want from our future would somehow take something away from his sincerity when he decides to ask. I can alleviate a lot of my anxiety, and it will be better for both of us, if we have an honest conversation about where we see ourselves in each other's futures. He's spending the weekend with me, I think I'm ready to have this conversation. Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful advice and encouragement.

beanbot2002

I was really upset with parts of your posts at first. Then Phira came in all level headed and awesome and unknowingly calmed down this unmarried, living with her boyfriend, 33 yr old, pregnant out of wedlock, lady.

Phira just won the internet. High five, Phira. High five.

minskat30

I can't speak to the fertility issues or cohabitation issues you raised above (I, honestly, haven't done much research on them one way or the other...though my H and I lived together before marriage and I certainly hope to have kids myself and am in my 30s) but my heart really does go out to you during this trying time with you Dad. 

I'm glad you won't rush into a wedding just to have your Dad present and am glad my perspective on that was helpful to you.  I know what a heartwrenching situation you are going through and, as hard as it is, this trying time will give you a lot of information about your relationship with your SO.  I hope he will be the rock that my H was for me during this time.  If you need a listening ear, just let me know.

 

[Deleted User]

And yes, Phira, excellent post, as well as Amapola14 way up top, and many others in this thread.

Phira is exactly right, I'm having trouble coping.

But there are several things going on here... I wouldn't break up with him because he won't propose in time for my dad to be at the wedding, but I would consider moving on if he showed significant uncertainty after a year of dating seriously.

And my fertility issues are another thing, that frankly, I'm not coping with well. This has all come together in a big hot mess and a very difficult thing for me to communicate. But, communicate I must.

bethsmiles

@istril - have you considered adoption?