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Not Engaged Yet
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[Deleted User]
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waiting is so painful, I really need advice.
I know my boyfriend is planning to propose. He has been dropping massive hints for months, and his best friend as much as confirmed it -- and even gave me a huge clue that my boyfriend is planning to ask on our anniversary. So why is this a big deal? Little background:
We started dating In November of last year. I know a year isn't much time, but I've never had a relationship like this. I think we both knew very early that eachother was just "the one." I've waited my whole life for this relationship, and I just know he feels the same way.
In May he started dropping tons of hints. He would always say "I wish I could spend more time to spend with you. Soon...." with a twinkle in his eye. ONce he even said "hint hint" and winked at me! (such a dork) Then, over the summer, he started applying for jobs in my town, and I started applying for jobs in his town (We live 45 minutes away, not awful, but a tad of a drive). Then he got a promotion, his roommates told him they are moving and he will need to find a new place soon (I own a Condo, and would love it if he would move in, but I have a very firm principle that I must be at least engaged before living with someone), and we were going on a cruise together at the beginning of August. All this stuff happened to just make it seem like the right time, and he kept dropping hints. Then, in mid July, my dad was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. So now, on top of everything seeming right, I have this ... urgency. 
Maybe it sounds strange, but most of the fantasies I have about a wedding don't actually revolve around me or my husband, but, my dad. He is the one person I want to be at my wedding.
Then the cruise came ... and went, with no proposal. It was a wonderful cruise, but he broke my heart by not asking. And all the while he keeps telling me he wants to spend his life with me, but when I try and give him a lead-in for the question, he dodges it.
So I think he is waiting for our anniversary to ask, which, infuriates me. I think he thinks it will be romantic, but I feel like he is completely missing the big picture. I could care less about a calendar date! And frankly, for a 32 year old woman? I'm past celebrating dating anniversaries. They are depressing. After a year at this point in my life, it is time to move the relationship forward, or move on. I'm never married, and I want a family.
So why don't I tell him how I feel? If I suggest that he ask me, it will feel like I've prompted him, and artificial. Why don't I just ask? I think he will be disappointed... It's all so stupid. I'm actually a very good communicator in relationships--he's commented on it several times even--but this is ONE thing I want to come from him, 100%.
But I want my dad to be at my wedding. I just want my cake and eat it too.
I suppose I should just tell him how I feel, but I wish I could show you all how hard I've hit him over the head with the hint stick to GET ON WITH IT. I feel like I shouldn't have to "cheapen" the proposal by prompting him to do it (it feels so dumb to ask someone to ask something... why don't I just ask? Because in our culture, it's taboo GRRR)
And I absolutely hate the idea of an ultimatum. I'm much more likely to just walk away, than give an ultimatum. Besides, an ultimatum is just a woman asking the question, but in a much less romantic way.
Sorry for sounding so pathetic. I just came from seeing my dad in the hospital and I'm feeling very desperate right now. I get so angry he doesn't understand that I don't want him to wait (and this is the first thing I've ever really gotten mad at him for!). I know he's sure he's going to ask, it's just dumb to wait for a silly calendar date!
Any advice appreciated (but please assume I'm correct that he is certain he will ask me), but I'm especially looking for clever ways to nudge this along discreetly. I MUCH prefer open and direct communication, but in this case, I'm trying to preserve that magical moment, before I get too angry.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: waiting is so painful, I really need advice.
To be honest, I think you are being silly. You should be completely open and honest with your BF about how you are feeling. It's very immature to try to find ways into manipulating your BF into proposing sooner. Personally I don't understand how being 32 means dating anniversaries are silly but you are still so focused on a magical proposal that you won't discuss your feelings with the person you want to marry - those two lines of thought are just completely contradictory in my mind.
Additionally, you need to stop assuming things about when he will propose. It's really too bad you ruined your vacation with the expectation of a proposal. I don't know when he will propose but it might not be on your anniversary but I would hope you wouldn't want to ruin anything else he might have planned by moping about not getting engaged on that specific day.
It's a little unclear from your post but have the two of you actually discussed marriage at all? Or just hints and mentions of it?
I think you are WAY over-thinking this. I've been discussing marriage with my BF for a few years at this point. We plan out our future together. He doesn't feel pressured to propose before he's ready (obviously since it's been almost 5 years!).
You seem very sure that he is going to propose on your anniversary. If you discuss your feelings with him, if you are honest with him is there the chance he would move up his planned proposal? Possibly. But that doesn't necessarily make it less honest of a proposal if the same feelings are there.
First, I am so sorry to hear about your dad. That has got to be so difficult and I'm sorry you're going through that.
Next, you need to put things into perspective. You said, "After a year at this point in my life, it is time to move the relationship forward, or move on." You have been dating for NINE MONTHS. How can you say this with a straight face after NINE MONTHS? If he wants to wait until your anniversary, maybe it's because HE has issues getting engaged to someone he's been with less than a year.
You seem to be talking a lot about how YOU feel in all of this, but what about how HE feels? Maybe he's not 100% ready. You can know that he is THE one, and he can know that you are THE one without him being ready to propose NOWNOWNOW. Maybe you should communicate with him and see where he is in all of this.
Your heart was broken on your cruise because you assigned expectations to your relationship without even doing your BF the decency of letting him know that you'd done so. You should never do that. It won't end well.
You also assigned yourself the arbitrary rule that you refuse to live with someone you're not engaged to, even if you know he's The One. That's your problem. Not his. He shouldn't be expected to expedite the relationship's natural timeline, or a timeline he feels comfortable with, because you HAVE to be engaged before moving in.
And the dad situation...I understand why you feel the urgency now that your dad is sick. I really do. But at the same time, the goal of a wedding is to have a successful marriage. You have a successful marriage when you have a successful, healthy relationship. You have a successful, healthy relationship when you follow timelines that BOTH parties are comfortable with and communicate effectively. So, while your dad being present at your wedding is important, the overall health of your future marriage is more important. You NEED to not rush your engagement/relationship timeline because of your father's illness. If your BF isn't 100% ready to get engaged/married, you shouldn't get married. Rushing into a marriage one of you isn't ready for so that your dad will be there will not be good for your marriage.
In short, you need to stop rushing your relationship. You need to communicate about how your BF feels about the relationship timeline and respect where he is. After all, it's only been 9 months. Communicate. Stop rushing. Stop making all of these expectations. You're only setting yourself up for disappointment. And stop making arbitrary rules and using them as an excuse to rush your relationship.
The part of your post quoted above irks me, especially as someone older than you. This isn't Victorian England. You aren't an old maid withering away. You're only 32, and celebrating a one-year dating anniversary shouldn't be depressing. As @loves2shop4shoes says above, your BF might not be comfortable proposing to someone he's been with for less than a year. That's not unreasonable. I can see how your previous relationship has colored your views, but I think it's also making you swing too far in the other direction. Marriage is a big deal and is worth serious consideration before rushing headlong into it.
I haz a planning bio
OP, I'm really sorry what's going on with you dad, cancer sucks.
Now, to your posts. I'll be honest, I skimmed through some, read most, but I think you and I have a few things in common, so I just wanted to give you some "been there, done that" advice.
First of all, waiting is not painful. I just checked, I'm not in pain. I actually feel pretty happy right now. I wake up every morning to my BF and our little fur family and we enjoy every day of our relationship. Ups and downs included (including this moning when he gave me Big Brother spoilers, anyway...).
I was in a seven year relationship with someone. My whole 20's were spent with this guy with empty promises. When push came to shove, we broke up, but I learned my lesson about setting up a timeline and sticking with it or re-evaluating it down the road.
So now I'm 33, I've been with my BF for over 2.5 years, we've been living together almost a year. On our last anniversary we casually discussed a timeline. It was both of us, not "oh I'm so old, I can only date someone for a year because I want babies." or "if I'm not engaged by the end of the year, you better pack your shit!" I think I'm not in any rush with having kids because my mom had me at 34 and my paternal grandmother had my dad at 36, so my biological clock isn't ticking too bad. We came up with a timeline and so far we are sticking with it. And it was an overall timeline with things we wanted to do, stuff we wanted to do with the house, etc.
Whatever you do, don't give him an ultimatum, because you might just end up waiting for the next boyfriend.
There is a lot to this post but I really want to address your Dad. I'm really sorry to hear about his cancer. What are the doctor's saying as far as his options/time? I can relate to your situation in many ways. My Dad was diagnoised with extensive small cell lung cancer (which is pretty much always terminal within a year) before my H and I got engaged. I loved my Dad and having him walk me down the aisle was one of the very few things I wanted in a wedding...a wedding is important but a marriage is much more so. My Dad did get to see me engaged but never walked me down the aisle (he died about a month and half before the wedding). It was painful beyond words but I'm 100% happy that my H didn't rush to propose or rush to wed because of my Dad's diagnoisis. A marriage is for life (at least for us), a wedding is just one (albeit, important) day.
You can talk to your SO about this relationship in a meaningful way but you have to respect the fact that he might not be ready to propose (and nine months, even at 32, is a short time within which to expect a proposal). If you truly think he is just waiting for an aniversary to make it romantic you can sit down with him and tell him that you want him to propose when he is ready but you are ready to live the rest of your life with him and that watching your Dad go through his illness has made it clear to you how short life can be. I'm not sure why you can't sit down with your SO (without it resulting in ultimatums) and ask for a rough timeline of when he thinks he will be ready to propose, how long he was thinking he would like to be engaged, when he would like to start a family, etc. I did this with my H before we married (and, even after marriage, that timeline is flexible by the way and depends on life's circumstances...it isn't set in stone with one party enforcing it). I'm in my 30s so, again, I relate to the internal timeline (regarding kids) but you seemed to have developed in your mind without consulting your SO about it. Again, when does he want to have kids? You can't dictate these important decisions on your own, you have to jointly make them (and revisit them if need be). In order to do that, you have to understand where he is coming from and have a conversation about these issues.
Edited to add...please spend this time with your Dad and cherish it instead of worrying about a proposal. I know you want him there at the wedding (I truly, truly know how you feel) but remember that the wedding is just one day and you have all the days in front of you that God gives you to spend with your Dad and make memories now. Cherish the time you have. And, again, I'm really sorry about the cancer. It really sucks.
Still here and still fabulous!
I'm so sorry to hear about your dad
To a certain extent, I understand where you are coming from. I know my BF has talked to my parents, I know he went ring shopping, etc. But nothing has happened. And this was AFTER he and I talked timelines... and the time he mentioned has come, and gone.
But - as a person who suffers from anxiety when I don't know what's going on - just talk to him. I actually talked to my BF last night (again) - letting him know that this was in no way me pushing him, but that for my own peace of mind I just had to have some sort of idea of when this might happen (i.e. September? October?) so I can calm the anxious part of my brain down.
I think you need to do something similar with your BF - no leading questions, no leading "openings" - just as simple as "I want you to know that I'm not trying pressure or give an ultimatum, but with the things that have been going on recently, I would like to have a discussion about how our future is going to go". Keep it open. During this you should be able to explain your feelings surrounding your dad and everything else.
Trust me - I know this can totally be uncomfortable (something that my counseling is helping me deal with) - but if he loves you and truly knows you, you'll be surprised how easy it is once you say those first few words to just start the conversation.
Married Bio
When I posted last night I was feeling a lot of grief about my dad. Intellectually, I realize that it is insane to rush a wedding because my dad is dying. Emotionally, it is a different story. But I agree with those of you 100% that it is a terrible idea to rush the wedding for my dad's sake. After a nights sleep, though, I feel like I have calmed down emotionally, and the rationality has set back in. I feel much more at ease about this. I will not compromise a marriage just to have my dad present for the wedding. Thanks VERY much to minskat 30 for the perspective.
I really do consider myself a good communicator. I'm usually very honest and open about how I feel, and he has commented many times how this is the best communication he's ever had in a relationship. This difficulty in disclosing how I feel with him on this ONE issue is a total oddity for me, and I think that is part of the reason it is so distressing for me. Trying to understand why I'm having a hard time "vagging up" and having this conversation is a big reason why I posted here. (skip to the end of you want my insight.)
I know it may have come across this way, but please stop assuming I want a "magical" proposal. I used that term more tongue in cheek in my original post. I want a genuine proposal that I don't feel like I prompted, not a "perfect" one.
With respect to my wish to have a family before I get too old, I want to thank cu97tiger for the links. However, I had actually already read most of those articles a while ago. You will notice that while the articles downplay the conventional wisdom of age (which was definitely reassuring), they do acknowledge that increased age DOES come with increased risks. And without going into too much detail, I want to remind you that I DO have a medical condition that will impact my fertility at a quicker rate as I get older than women who don't have this condition.
As far as not wanting to spend more time than a year in a relationship at this stage in my life... actually, this would have become an issue with or without my dad's cancer. Those two things don't really have anything to do with eachother. I'm confused at people's suggestions on negotiating on this... it is my body, and my fertility. Do you suggest he has a heart to heart with my uterus and explain that he's not ready to move forward yet, so please keep those eggs primed and ready for when he is? No. I have an older friend, who is 41, who had this mentality all the way through her 30's, and she has terrible regret now that she wasted so much time relationships that wouldn't commit, and now she has no children. Again, I'm not suggesting that he rush into anything he's not ready for, but it's also not fair to expect me to waste my most fertile years. If he can't accept that, moving on is always another option for him.
My principles on cohabitation have nothing to do with punishing anyone. There is actually a healthy body of evidence that shows cohabitation before marriage can weaken commitment, and is associated with an increased chance for divorce. Recently however, research has suggested that it isn't cohabitation before marriage that raises chances for divorce, it is cohabitation before *commitment* (which includes engagement, not just marriage).Cohabitation before marriage? It's no greater divorce risk. -- New divorce and marriage research shows that cohabitation before marriage carries no extra risk of divorce - at least not when a couple plans to get married.
Does living together before marriage lead to divorce?
The downside of cohabitation before marriage.
And lots more.
So my take-away at this point? I had an incorrect assumption that telling him what I want from our future would somehow take something away from his sincerity when he decides to ask. I can alleviate a lot of my anxiety, and it will be better for both of us, if we have an honest conversation about where we see ourselves in each other's futures. He's spending the weekend with me, I think I'm ready to have this conversation. Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful advice and encouragement.
I was really upset with parts of your posts at first. Then Phira came in all level headed and awesome and unknowingly calmed down this unmarried, living with her boyfriend, 33 yr old, pregnant out of wedlock, lady.
Phira just won the internet. High five, Phira. High five.
"His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him." -CSousa
I can't speak to the fertility issues or cohabitation issues you raised above (I, honestly, haven't done much research on them one way or the other...though my H and I lived together before marriage and I certainly hope to have kids myself and am in my 30s) but my heart really does go out to you during this trying time with you Dad.
I'm glad you won't rush into a wedding just to have your Dad present and am glad my perspective on that was helpful to you. I know what a heartwrenching situation you are going through and, as hard as it is, this trying time will give you a lot of information about your relationship with your SO. I hope he will be the rock that my H was for me during this time. If you need a listening ear, just let me know.