Not Engaged Yet

Better to wait until engagement/marriage to live together.

13

Re: Better to wait until engagement/marriage to live together.

  • I see your point with the jargon, I guess the difference for me is that when I am seriously dating someone it has to do with the length and connection I feel with that person. But, to be engaged is an announcement to the entire world that you are in a relationship with someone with the intent to be married. To me, it feels a little different. To be serious, do not necessarily have to equal an intent to be married. But, to be engaged does and it means it is a mutual agreement between two people. BF and I currently have a serious relationship. We know we plan on getting married but have not set a date or even started planning. We are waiting for an engagement to do that.
  • OP- If you BF doesn't want to get engaged but does want to move in together, he probably wants a trial-run to test compatability.  This is usually not an engagement per Webster's dictonary but, really, call it whatever you want at this point...it doesn't matter.  You can label your relationship whatever you want but, in order not to repeat the past, I'd be focused on making sure your BF agrees with that label, what it means and building that compatability with him.  Your pushing (almost shoving) him away by demanding that he put YOUR label on the relationship you BOTH need to define.  I think you need to take a step back from all of this, focus on building up the positive in your relationship, focus on your Dad (how is he doing, by the way?) and focus on being kind to yourself.  Don't add another stressor to an already stressed out life-situation.
  • edited September 2013
    minskat30 said:
    OP- If you BF doesn't want to get engaged but does want to move in together, he probably wants a trial-run to test compatability.  This is usually not an engagement per Webster's dictonary but, really, call it whatever you want at this point...it doesn't matter.  You can label your relationship whatever you want but, in order not to repeat the past, I'd be focused on making sure your BF agrees with that label, what it means and building that compatability with him.  Your pushing (almost shoving) him away by demanding that he put YOUR label on the relationship you BOTH need to define.  I think you need to take a step back from all of this, focus on building up the positive in your relationship, focus on your Dad (how is he doing, by the way?) and focus on being kind to yourself.  Don't add another stressor to an already stressed out life-situation.
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  • I know!  Maybe you should give him an ultimatum.

    It really worked out for my ex-stepmother.
  • You're not just an outlier. You're WRONG in your definition. @Swazzle has helpfully posted multiple sources (since you like citing things so much) for the same definition because it is the one that is commonly recognized as society. You might say, "Hey Liv, marriage is a legally, religiously, or socially sanctioned union of persons who commit to one another, forming a familial and economic bond." And I might say, "No, Istril, marriage means that you and your partner ride naked on unicorns." And I would be WRONG. It's not a differing point of view -- it's a definition and you don't have it correct.

    What I don't understand is how you could HONESTLY believe what you are spewing. You think a dude buys you an expensive ring to TEST IT OUT? REALLY? What does it mean to you when a guy presents you with a piece of jewelry and asks you to marry him? You "read between the lines" and take that to mean "here is this expensive bauble, will you consider maybe moving to the next step with me but if you don't want to after this trial period it's totes cool?" Mmmhmm.
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    I totally want this to happen on my honeymoon.
    "Stuart was scared, but he loved Margalo, Mommy. And there is nothing bigger than love." -The Bean
     "His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him." -CSousa











  • I totally want this to happen on my honeymoon.
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  • Engagement isn't a trial period to see if you want to be married to someone. Engagement means: We have decided that we will get married, and now we're going to plan our wedding (whether it's, "We plan on going to city hall tomorrow," or "We are saving up for a huge party").
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  • edited September 2013
    My question is, why are YOU apprehensive? And why is it not okay for him to be apprehensive about making a (potentially) lifelong commitment to you by asking you to marry him, when he doesn't know everything about you yet?  


    Ok. I'll explain it again. I don't want to get into a live-in situation prior to knowing we want to get married beacuse I don't want one/both of us fall into the trap of getting married one day just because "its the next step" after living together. Agree/disagree with me all you want, but that is why I am apprehensive.

    It "isn't ok for him", the way you framed it, because engagement isn't a lifelong commitment. Marriage is. At least the way I have seen it, which of course, has been the topic of recent discussion/ridicule.


    LivLeighton said:You think a dude buys you an expensive ring to TEST IT OUT? REALLY?

    I have told him very directly, months ago, that if we ever got engaged, he'd better not buy me an expensive ring. Ring is optional. I said that already.
    Here, since I've been hopelessly been branded a pariah on this board, I may as well play it up and cite another article! I bet it will piss off everyone here who has a nice expensive rock. Awesome.

    cschiano said: How on earth does someone come up with the idea that engagement is a trial period for deciding if you want to get married? That is called dating. I just. . . what???

    I have no idea.
    My idea of engagement is the decision that you want to get married after a period of dating, and then moving in together before the wedding to make sure there aren't any catastrophic and unforeseen failures.

    The denizens of the board, however, have informed me that this is incorrect.

    You know, I really did figure some things out from this thread. There were some really well-intentioned and thoughtful posts. It has helped me reach some clarity this week, in why I feel the way I do, and what actually matters in my relationship. So I'm glad for that.

    But I honestly don't understand what I did to incite this much hatred. I hear several of you saying that I "crammed it down your throat". While I feel that I was careful not to do that, apparently, I failed. If you feel that I was judgemental of you, then you have my sincere apologies, it really wasn't my intention. I felt defensive, and so perhaps I worded things pushier than I meant to.

    Thanks again to those of you who took time to respond to my thoughts.
  • And you know what? NO ONE HERE SAID DIAMONDS ARE NECESSARY. Even something like a morganite ring or a moissanite ring can be (relatively speaking) expensive. A simple plain band can be relatively expensive. So now you're just lashing out.
  • Not diamonds, no, but several references have been made to big expensive rings.

    But yes. The article was me lashing out. I'm sorry, I thought lashing out was a thing that was going on, I must have misunderstood.
  • Either way, you incited a damn riot by saying that all of us are in doomed relationships because we want to live with our SO before we get engaged or married. That's what the hate is about.
    "All are doomed?" Let's be fair. I never said that, and you know it.
  • @istril I really (want) to believe that you're just a misinformed but well intentioned person. I know that there are a ton of things going on in your life right now that must be causing you stress. The death of a parent isn't easy to deal with, and there are a few posters here who have been through it recently. They have advised you to seek out a counselor and I second their suggestions.

    As you have come to realize, your definition of engagement is incorrect. Unfortunately the definition of words isn't really a matter of opinion type of thing. 

    So, all that being said, I hope that you can, using the correct terminology, talk to you BF about how you both envision the relationship going forward in the upcoming months and years. 

    I swear to you we're not 'mean', its just that most of us have been (on some level) where you are. At some point we came on here, got flamed, engaged in some serious self reflection and returned to listen to the really good advice of people who have been there. And let em tell you, these ladies have some REALLY good advice, like grade A pure uncut premo shit. 

     



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  • CLoGreenEyesCLoGreenEyes member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited September 2013

    But I honestly don't understand what I did to incite this much hatred. I hear several of you saying that I "crammed it down your throat". While I feel that I was careful not to do that, apparently, I failed. If you feel that I was judgemental of you, then you have my sincere apologies, it really wasn't my intention. I felt defensive, and so perhaps I worded things pushier than I meant to.

    @istril, I feel like all of the citations and articles and links and so on were perceived as antagonistic by a lot of people on this board. I know that's not what you intended, but truly, all you had to say was, "I don't want to live with my BF before engagement" or, "My BF and I have agreed not to live together until we're engaged." That makes it subjective and your own choice . That doesn't mean everyone will agree with you, but people are much less likely to have their feathers ruffled over that than, "This is my choice and it's right because of x, y, and z articles." We're not writing research papers here, we're just helping (or trying to help) each other make good decisions in our own individual lives.

    Again, I get the impression that all you wanted a good debate and didn't intend it turn into a huge argument. I also admire that you seem to know what you think and why you think it. But, as you can see, this is a heated topic and it really seemed like you were trying to convince people that your viewpoint is the only correct one - even the title of your thread conveys that.

    You seem like a nice person with a desire to do the right thing, and it sucks that these threads have gotten so out of hand. I think you should lurk some more and get a feel for how we interact here; it really is not about being "mean" but more about offering advice and sharing about our lives. And maybe back off of these more heated topics for a while and open up more about more neutral things, which you started to do in the other thread by filling out the little questionnaire.
  • lennonkdc said:
    @istril I really (want) to believe that you're just a misinformed but well intentioned person. I know that there are a ton of things going on in your life right now that must be causing you stress. The death of a parent isn't easy to deal with, and there are a few posters here who have been through it recently. They have advised you to seek out a counselor and I second their suggestions.

    As you have come to realize, your definition of engagement is incorrect. Unfortunately the definition of words isn't really a matter of opinion type of thing. 

    So, all that being said, I hope that you can, using the correct terminology, talk to you BF about how you both envision the relationship going forward in the upcoming months and years. 

    I swear to you we're not 'mean', its just that most of us have been (on some level) where you are. At some point we came on here, got flamed, engaged in some serious self reflection and returned to listen to the really good advice of people who have been there. And let em tell you, these ladies have some REALLY good advice, like grade A pure uncut premo shit

     
    image
    "Stuart was scared, but he loved Margalo, Mommy. And there is nothing bigger than love." -The Bean
     "His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him." -CSousa









  • edited September 2013

    @lennonkdc, you may not be mean, but some of the people on this board most certainly are. My words have been paraphrased incorrectly and misrepresented I don't know how many times. I feel like everything I say is turned around to make me sound malicious and judgmental. I'm exhausted of constantly correcting these twisted interpretations of what I mean. I'm opinionated yes, but as you expressed, I DO feel like I'm a well-intentioned person.

    I feel like it's stupid to feel this way from an internet discussion board, but this whole experience has been really depressing for me. People have totally eviscerated my character, my relationship, and my intentions, and have "psychoanalyzed" me with extreme pretension. I have no idea what makes any of them think they are qualified to do so. 

    It's a shame to hear that there is some good advice to be had, because this experience has made me feel so shitty I'm not sure I'll be back. Someone commented that this isn't middle school, and no, it's not, but frankly, I feel exactly like I did back then, getting picked on and made fun of by all the popular girls. It feels awful.

    Anyway, I HAVE engaged in some serious self-reflection, which was my goal, but I don't feel like I had to get an emotional ass-kicking to get there.
    Amapola14 said:
    @istril, I feel like all of the citations and articles and links and so on were perceived as antagonistic by a lot of people on this board. I know that's not what you intended, but truly, all you had to say was, "I don't want to live with my BF before engagement" or, "My BF and I have agreed not to live together until we're engaged." That makes it subjective and your own choice . That doesn't mean everyone will agree with you, but people are much less likely to have their feathers ruffled over that than, "This is my choice and it's right because of x, y, and z articles." We're not writing research papers here, we're just helping (or trying to help) each other make good decisions in our own individual lives.

    Again, I get the impression that all you wanted a good debate and didn't intend it turn into a huge argument. I also admire that you seem to know what you think and why you think it. But, as you can see, this is a heated topic and it really seemed like you were trying to convince people that your viewpoint is the only correct one - even the title of your thread conveys that.

    You seem like a nice person with a desire to do the right thing, and it sucks that these threads have gotten so out of hand. I think you should lurk some more and get a feel for how we interact here; it really is not about being "mean" but more about offering advice and sharing about our lives. And maybe back off of these more heated topics for a while and open up more about more neutral things, which you started to do in the other thread by filling out the little questionnaire.

    Amphola, thank you SO much for this.  I can definitely see how the way I worded things initially gave the wrong impression. I phrased the title deliberately that way because it was my opinion, and I wanted to draw interest (HAH. oops). Obviously, that was a mistake. I appreciate you having the insight to see past my carelessness and realize that yes, all I really wanted was a good discussion. Sometimes when I have a viewpoint I want to reexamine (like this one), I present my current views to the people I'm talking to and the listen to their counter arguments. Then, I "try and convince them" of my own view, because I want to hear how they challenge it, in order to help ME challenge it. That is what makes me think and probe deeper into my own feelings. What I wasn't expecting was, frankly, the harshness with which this was done. Still, I will be more careful how I frame my discussions in the future, wherever that may be.
  • @istril, would you physically walk up to a group of people you had never met before, state the title of this thread out loud, and pass out copies of the articles you cited to prove your point? Probably not, because you realize they might easily find it offensive and react in a strongly negative manner. Would you expect them to intuitively understand that you are "reexamining your viewpoint" and trying to "hear how they challenge you"? Again, probably not, because you never really said so. That is what has happened here. I don't think the NEY message board is the right place to do something like this, at least not when you are brand new and no one understands your intentions in posts like this. I'm glad you are starting to see where everyone is coming from, though.
  • @istril, please take @amphola's words to heart about your 'tone'/ wording and take some of these other ladies with a grain of salt. I know first hand how mean they can be, I got RIPPED TO SHREDS when I first started posting. They were so mean to me, I left, licked my wounds lurked a bit and then came back. Now I'm going on a vacation with some of the girls who gave me the smack down I needed!

    The point is the all the ladies here are tight knit group, we have a dynamic established and we don't like being 'lectured' to. So when someone comes on the board like you did, all guns a blazing, with the ZOMG PUT A RING ON IT AND A BABY IN ME NOW!!!! attitude we're not gonna have the greatest reaction. (BTW, we feel we can 'psychoanalyze' you b/c we've seen that attitude before, way too many times to count.) Then there's the fact that you're tone, while possibly unintentional, came off really preachy on the whole living together thing. The majority of the ladies here did or are living with their SO's before engagement or marriage. Telling us our relationships are doomed (or BS 'studies' that say they are) isn't going to win you many friends either. 

    In the end I hope you can take some time, lurk and get a feel for this board, and then come back and tell us about your life. 





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  • Amapola14 said:
    @istril, would you physically walk up to a group of people you had never met before, state the title of this thread out loud, and pass out copies of the articles you cited to prove your point? Probably not, because you realize they might easily find it offensive and react in a strongly negative manner. Would you expect them to intuitively understand that you are "reexamining your viewpoint" and trying to "hear how they challenge you"? Again, probably not, because you never really said so. That is what has happened here. I don't think the NEY message board is the right place to do something like this, at least not when you are brand new and no one understands your intentions in posts like this. I'm glad you are starting to see where everyone is coming from, though.
    This for sure.
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  • Why am I qualified to psychoanalyze you? Because I am a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker, that's why. Oh, and because I have a successful relationship. And also because I understand basic definitions in the English language and don't argue facts.
    Psychiatrists are generally accepted as qualified to perform psychoanalysis (which is also viewed as antiquated by many modern practitioners), not social workers, and usually only after a clinical evaluation, NOT A F****** FORUM POSTING.

    OH! I have a successful relationship too!!!!! When do I get to "psychoanalyze" yours?

    And again also I understand basic facts and the English language. For example, I know the term "engagement" involves a decision to marry someone! YAY!
    buggle2 said:
    So by your own (wrong) definition, you're engaged. So....what's the problem moving in then? Show this thread to your BF and see if he still wants to marry your truck load of crazy. Please.
    I'm going to barf. If you don't know what the problem is, you haven't even made the smallest attempt to understand my perspective.

    And, I have to say, about 36 hours ago, I resolved to show this to my BF, once we are engaged. I can't WAIT for him to see this. He will rip this shit apart.
  • OP, I don't even get what's going on here anymore. You're never going to agree with us; we're never going to agree with you. We're at an impasse.
  • Riss2893Riss2893 member
    100 Comments 25 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited September 2013
    @istril said:

    And, I have to say, about 36 hours ago, I resolved to show this to my BF, once we are engaged. I can't WAIT for him to see this. He will rip this shit apart.
    Funny how you're going to wait to show him...afraid you might scare him away with your ridiculousness? But since your idea of engagement is just a trial run, he could change his mind anyway, right? I haven't put much of my own opinion into this because most people have said what I think in a better way than I could but....seriously...

    Also, I love (**sarcasm**) how you said in the getting to know you thread that you wanted to have a fresh start on these boards and yet you went and started this thread after knowing what reactions you got before. Either you just really wanna piss people off or you're really not that smart.
  • honestly as a geology major, I find that article completely ignorant. How bout you try to form under intense heat and pressure and come out as beautiful as a diamond? And no I'm not saying they are beautiful because I've been brainwashed but because I find it amazing how they are one of the true covalent bonds and their complex crystalline structure.  So honestly not only are you as nuts as a bag of acorns but ignorant of geology.
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  • JEBUS! I came to the NEY community board maybe three times today, and it seems as though there were 5 new posts each time I scrolled through the threads. I enjoy this board because I find that the advice given is often honest, and helpful. I am not a person who frequently posts, and I am often worried that my responses will be judged. Many posters (including myself) disagree with your viewpoint on cohabitation before a proposal is given. While you are entitled to stating your opinion, you posted this thread to start a "friendly" debate with people who had opposing viewpoints. But it wasn't a debate, posters who stated opposing opinions on cohabitation not being a milestone and form of commitment in a relationship, were not only shot down, but received responses that could be considered insensitive. Your past experiences in regard to cohabitation before a proposal may have colored your views, but many posters have valid points, and are most likely frustrated by your lack of understanding as to where they are coming from. You also attempt to provide empirical evidence to back up each statement, which further removes you from having an open discussion on a more heart to heart level. 

    IMO your other thread was actually filled with compassion by posters. Many posters tried to sympathize with you and your current situation with your father. We tried to give you suggestions, which you didn't seem to follow up on much (besides the conversation with your bf, which didn't really give you the timeline answer you desired). Even during that thread, you managed to give a few stabby responses to questions that were posted with good intentions by others. You call people mean, yet you minimalize and insult others to defend your viewpoint! Look at what you said to Liv! She is a social worker with experience (plus her advice has been solid, and she's been around for a while)!  Look at what you said to Phira (who gives amazing advice and a person who I consider to be a voice of reason on the NEY board) who has only tried to help you! Look at what you said to Amapola14, and Bethsmiles who are also trying to help you! Look at what you said to posters in relationships that are beyond a nine month mark or who are engaged after dare I say COHABITATING with their partners (I apologize for not getting all the usernames for those who participated in a civilized manner on this thread, but you know who you are)! Most women on the boards are happy with the current status of their relationship, dating, engaged, or even married  Look, I get it, you are defensive at this point due to some remarks.  People have admitted to being mean to you, but please take a moment to look back at your posts, and try to understand where their responses are coming from. Sorry that this thread has turned into a hot mess, but you need to understand that there is an issue with communication on your part and how this can be prevented when you post threads or responses further down the road. 

    To the frequent posters on NEY, I hope that I didn't insult you in any way shape or form. I really enjoy your conversations and advice you give to others. 
  • Homegirl is smoking crack.
    "Stuart was scared, but he loved Margalo, Mommy. And there is nothing bigger than love." -The Bean
     "His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him." -CSousa









  • Seriously, OP, you should do stand up.

    Your stupidity is funny as hell.
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