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Divorce...!

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Re: Divorce...!

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    It is not the government's job to moralize marriage.  The only step of the process they should be involved in is issuing the license/divorce decree.  Having them involved any more is way too 'big brother' and is not allowing people make their own decisions and take responsibility for their own actions.

    Do people sometimes treat marriage and divorce less seriously than I think it should be?  Absolutely.  Do I give a fuck?  Nope.  If someone wants to have a sham marriage that they decided to start or end on a whim, that's their fuck-up and does not affect my marriage in any way, shape or form.

    People (and especially the government) need to back the hell out of other people's personal lives.  
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    I do apologize if my OP was offensive. That really wasn't my intention. I don't look down on people who are divorced, and that's not what I said. Like I previously said, my brother and his ex are one of the ones I know personally. Do I think less ofhim? Absolutely not. Do I personally (my opinion only) think they both could have tried harder? Yes.
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    Very good point, NYCBruin.  The link between premarital cohabitation and divorce is also nonsense- in every stats class I've ever taken, it's been used to highlight the danger of confusing correlation with causation.
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    The reason divorce rates are so much higher then before is because divorces, back in the day, were heavily looked down upon. Couples would stay in very unhappy marriages because being unhappy was better then being known as the person who got a divorce.  Divorces are more widely accepted now which is why people are more apt to go through the process.

    But just because the divorce rate is high does not mean that all people enter into marriages blindly or think of it as something that isn't serious.  Most times when people get married then do so thinking that they are going to be with that person forever.  Most don't stand at the alter and vow "till I get tired of you."  But shit happens and now a days instead of staying in a crappy situation people are able to, without being judged, get out and move on (or move on as best they can).

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    I do apologize if my OP was offensive. That really wasn't my intention. I don't look down on people who are divorced, and that's not what I said. Like I previously said, my brother and his ex are one of the ones I know personally. Do I think less ofhim? Absolutely not. Do I personally (my opinion only) think they both could have tried harder? Yes.

    It sounds like you're using the case of your brother's marriage and extrapolating what you know (or think you know) about their situation to all divorces.  Another statistical mistake.  Yes, there are people who get divorced because they didn't try hard enough.  There are also lots of people who tried very hard and still got divorced.  
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
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    Have you told your brother you think he and his ex could have tried harder?
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    You sound awfully judgmental.

    Stay out of other people's business and you won't get your panties in a wad so quickly. Yes, some people rush into marriage and take it lightly. No, it is none of your damn business whether people divorce or not. And unless you are actually part of the relationship, you have no idea if the couple has "given it their all" regardless of how close you are to them.
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    Apparently I'm on Team NYCBruin today.  If I were going to draw a general conclusion about the ease of divorce based on the experiences of people I know, I'd say people tend to put up with far more bullshit than any human being should have to tolerate in a sisyphean attempt to make their marriages work before they throw in the towel, especially if they have children.

    In my opinion, many divorces can be attributed to people making poor choices in marriage partners to begin with- just reading the boards here and on the nest you will see a lot of people plowing ahead with marriage despite a number of glaring red flags.  Most of those relationships would never be successful, no matter how hard anyone tried.
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    I didn't make that statistic. The point of that article was to show that everyone has a different opinion of why divorces happen, and no one is pointing a finger right or wrong which is I feel what is going on in this post. It has gone far beyond what I originally asked.

    @maggie0829, I don't think that marriages are entered into blindly for the most part. I agree. And I also agree that divorces are more socially accepted.

    which is WHY I think that people think it is no big deal. I'm not saying everyone, I never said that it wasn't dramatic for some people. I understand that not all divorced couples wanted to get a divorce. Who knows, I hope and pray I don't get one, but who knows! All I know is that I will do absolutely everything I can to make it work... which is all this was about.

    I just feel like people who make it so publicly accepted (Kim K) isn't good for all the young impressinable minds out there that probably think it's ok to quit most things in life if they are hard. Good Lord I probably shouldn't even have opened that can of worms.

    Seriously, I think only a few people actually answered my question though.

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    Apparently I'm on Team NYCBruin today.  If I were going to draw a general conclusion about the ease of divorce based on the experiences of people I know, I'd say people tend to put up with far more bullshit than any human being should have to tolerate in a sisyphean attempt to make their marriages work before they throw in the towel, especially if they have children.

    In my opinion, many divorces can be attributed to people making poor choices in marriage partners to begin with- just reading the boards here and on the nest you will see a lot of people plowing ahead with marriage despite a number of glaring red flags.  Most of those relationships would never be successful, no matter how hard anyone tried.
    Apparently I'm on your team, too!

    I agree with all of this.


    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
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    To answer your question, no I don't think it's too easy to get divorced. After watching my friend go through an extremely expensive 4 year divorce and a nasty custody battle, I'd say it's pretty damned heartbreaking. To what purpose would one make divorce harder? To keep two people who are miserable together? That sounds awesome. Again, some people do go into marriage without fully thinking it through, with red flags and all, but as @Pepper6 said, it's not the government's job to moralize marriage.
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    LiLe422 said:

    ^ totally agree.

     

    and the people that can't afford to pay for therapy probably can't afford a divorce lol. Or who knows, just let the state pay for it, they rob us blind anyway (in illinois)

    I fucking hate this mentality.  Do you really think that is a viable solution?
    I'm sure she was being sarcastic. I live in IL too and our government is a joke. It's corrupt, it does rob us blind, it can't manage it's finances. I suspect the poster is referencing all the people that do live in this state and expect the government to do and pay for everything for them, like money grows on trees.  :(
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    Marshmallow brings up a good example of what I'm talking about.  Your friend is aware that this guy has a poor track record in the marriage department, indicating that he chooses poorly and/or doesn't have the skills to maintain a healthy relationship, and yet she continues to date him.  Why?  These are the kinds of things that should give people pause about moving forward in a relationship.
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    Alright, I'm honestly starting to think people are on here just because they want the popularity vote (oh no! Should I not have said that?) you guys continue doing what you're doing. I'm not being a part of this anymore. Say my panties are in a bunch, I'm cowardly, a too sensitive newb, whatever. But seriously, for people saying IM judgemental, have you read your comments about judging me on being judgemental? Have a fantastic day! Oh, by the way.... That was sarcasm :)
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    Yes it may be easy and cheap to get a marriage license and get married (a JOP service not a full blown huge wedding extravaganza), but I don't think making it harder to get that license will really help.  It comes down to the people getting married.  They are adults and have every right to enter into a legal contract even if it is a shitty idea.  It is the mindset and knowledge base of people that needs to change not the actual marriage license process.

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    Sorry we're not an anti-divorce hivemind.
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    I lurk on a lot of these threads and notice just how often they turn into arguments. Geez.

    Anyway, for what its worth, I do think its *way* too easy for people to get married. I don't know *how* I would suggest making the process harder or complicated, but I think people do get married thinking "oh if it doesnt work out, no big deal, i'll get a divorce."

    I have a close friend who is dating a man that has been married and divorced 3 TIMES before he was 32. Now I don't know the specifics of each marriage and divorce, but quite obviously, that is a perfect example of a person who doesn't take marriage "seriously".
    Even so...how is this any of your business?  I'm not trying to be snarky, it's just a general pet peeve that people judge others when it has no bearing on their life whatsoever.  Great, this dude seems like a tool that doesn't choose his spouses well, but clearly your friend knows the score, so it's their decision where they take their relationship.  I just don't see how this affects you to the point where you think it should be more difficult to get married...
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    Alright, I'm honestly starting to think people are on here just because they want the popularity vote (oh no! Should I not have said that?) you guys continue doing what you're doing. I'm not being a part of this anymore. Say my panties are in a bunch, I'm cowardly, a too sensitive newb, whatever. But seriously, for people saying IM judgemental, have you read your comments about judging me on being judgemental? Have a fantastic day! Oh, by the way.... That was sarcasm :)
    Yeah, your OP was extremely judgmental. You have a fantastic day too.
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    Alright, I'm honestly starting to think people are on here just because they want the popularity vote (oh no! Should I not have said that?) you guys continue doing what you're doing. I'm not being a part of this anymore. Say my panties are in a bunch, I'm cowardly, a too sensitive newb, whatever. But seriously, for people saying IM judgemental, have you read your comments about judging me on being judgemental? Have a fantastic day! Oh, by the way.... That was sarcasm :)
    Wow, what a very thoughtful and mature response to the debate going on here.  I can see why people take you so seriously.  
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    For the record, I wouldn't advocate any measure to make getting married more difficult, even though I think many people's choice to marry is unwise.
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    Alright, I'm honestly starting to think people are on here just because they want the popularity vote (oh no! Should I not have said that?) you guys continue doing what you're doing. I'm not being a part of this anymore. Say my panties are in a bunch, I'm cowardly, a too sensitive newb, whatever. But seriously, for people saying IM judgemental, have you read your comments about judging me on being judgemental? Have a fantastic day! Oh, by the way.... That was sarcasm :)
    Sorry but what the fuck did you think was going to happen when you start out judging people's relationships and whether or not you think they worked hard enough to make their marriage work? Did you really think people weren't going to get heated with such a hot button topic? Did you think others weren't going to have differing opinions? When you put your thoughts and opinions out onto a public forum they will be judged by all who read them. So if you don't want to be judged then maybe you need to keep your opinions to yourself.

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    Pepper6 said:
    I lurk on a lot of these threads and notice just how often they turn into arguments. Geez.

    Anyway, for what its worth, I do think its *way* too easy for people to get married. I don't know *how* I would suggest making the process harder or complicated, but I think people do get married thinking "oh if it doesnt work out, no big deal, i'll get a divorce."

    I have a close friend who is dating a man that has been married and divorced 3 TIMES before he was 32. Now I don't know the specifics of each marriage and divorce, but quite obviously, that is a perfect example of a person who doesn't take marriage "seriously".
    Even so...how is this any of your business?  I'm not trying to be snarky, it's just a general pet peeve that people judge others when it has no bearing on their life whatsoever.  Great, this dude seems like a tool that doesn't choose his spouses well, but clearly your friend knows the score, so it's their decision where they take their relationship.  I just don't see how this affects you to the point where you think it should be more difficult to get married...
    Jesus Christ on a cracker. This is exactly what I'm talking about, people taking shit out of context. Did I say it was my business? Did I say I cared that she's dating him? No, I did not. I simply said, it is my opinion that he doesn't take marriage seriously. That's what the thread was about. She was asking opinions and I gave my opinion. Oh, because its your pet peeve? Well, why is it ok for you to share your opinion, but no one else to share theirs? Jesus.
    She never said that it was not ok to share your opinion.  You shared it and she disagreed with you.  Nothing wrong with that.  It is called a discussion.  And when people have differing opinions and ideas they state them.  I do not see how this is so hard to understand.  Again if you don't want people disagreeing with your opinion or ideas then you should keep it to yourself.

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    My fiance is among many people I know who are divorced. All of these people married young (22-25). I'd like to believe the statistics that indicate that people who wait until they're older to get get married (at least late 20's) have more successful marriages because they have time to grow up and to know themselves before making a life-long commitment. 
    In hindsight, the people who I know who are divorced knew of warning signs going into the marriage, and chose to hope that things would get better. I know of marriages that are struggling right now, and again it's over things they knew going into the relationship. 
    Examples: 1) Not in 100% agreement about family planning 2) very different views on finances 3) very different views on things that are important to them (i.e. the athletic woman who married an overweight, lazy man; the conservative who married the liberal believing that opposites attract, that kind of thing).
    I've also heard of people who (thanks to society) believed that you had to marry young (straight out of college) or else there was something "wrong" with you so they married their bf/gf at the time of graduation, people who weren't 100% happy but assumed it was as good as it was gonna get, people who weren't 100% happy but were afraid to get back out there and search for someone better.... a lot of boiling down to afraid of being lonely and/or being looked down upon for being single.
    Basically, I've seen a lot of "settling"-- with unhappy results.
    I've dated far more men than my younger-self could have imagined, but I'm glad I have so I know what qualities in a partner I need- not just want, but need- to be happy. 
    I have no solutions, just observations that it's not necessarily about not taking marriage seriously, but more not knowing what you're getting into when you get married. We can't blame anyone for not realizing what they were getting into. No one has a crystal ball. We can only hope for the best. 


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    Pepper6 said:
    I lurk on a lot of these threads and notice just how often they turn into arguments. Geez.

    Anyway, for what its worth, I do think its *way* too easy for people to get married. I don't know *how* I would suggest making the process harder or complicated, but I think people do get married thinking "oh if it doesnt work out, no big deal, i'll get a divorce."

    I have a close friend who is dating a man that has been married and divorced 3 TIMES before he was 32. Now I don't know the specifics of each marriage and divorce, but quite obviously, that is a perfect example of a person who doesn't take marriage "seriously".
    Even so...how is this any of your business?  I'm not trying to be snarky, it's just a general pet peeve that people judge others when it has no bearing on their life whatsoever.  Great, this dude seems like a tool that doesn't choose his spouses well, but clearly your friend knows the score, so it's their decision where they take their relationship.  I just don't see how this affects you to the point where you think it should be more difficult to get married...
    Jesus Christ on a cracker. This is exactly what I'm talking about, people taking shit out of context. Did I say it was my business? Did I say I cared that she's dating him? No, I did not. I simply said, it is my opinion that he doesn't take marriage seriously. That's what the thread was about. She was asking opinions and I gave my opinion. Oh, because its your pet peeve? Well, why is it ok for you to share your opinion, but no one else to share theirs? Jesus.
    She never said that it was not ok to share your opinion.  You shared it and she disagreed with you.  Nothing wrong with that.  It is called a discussion.  And when people have differing opinions and ideas they state them.  I do not see how this is so hard to understand.  Again if you don't want people disagreeing with your opinion or ideas then you should keep it to yourself.
    Ditto Maggie. She disagreed with you - she never said to not share your opinion. And for what it's worth, FFIL is on his 3rd marriage. 3 times was the charm for him. People do grow - perhaps it will work out for your friend.
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    Pepper6 said:
    I lurk on a lot of these threads and notice just how often they turn into arguments. Geez.

    Anyway, for what its worth, I do think its *way* too easy for people to get married. I don't know *how* I would suggest making the process harder or complicated, but I think people do get married thinking "oh if it doesnt work out, no big deal, i'll get a divorce."

    I have a close friend who is dating a man that has been married and divorced 3 TIMES before he was 32. Now I don't know the specifics of each marriage and divorce, but quite obviously, that is a perfect example of a person who doesn't take marriage "seriously".
    Even so...how is this any of your business?  I'm not trying to be snarky, it's just a general pet peeve that people judge others when it has no bearing on their life whatsoever.  Great, this dude seems like a tool that doesn't choose his spouses well, but clearly your friend knows the score, so it's their decision where they take their relationship.  I just don't see how this affects you to the point where you think it should be more difficult to get married...
    Jesus Christ on a cracker. This is exactly what I'm talking about, people taking shit out of context. Did I say it was my business? Did I say I cared that she's dating him? No, I did not. I simply said, it is my opinion that he doesn't take marriage seriously. That's what the thread was about. She was asking opinions and I gave my opinion. Oh, because its your pet peeve? Well, why is it ok for you to share your opinion, but no one else to share theirs? Jesus.
    She never said that it was not ok to share your opinion.  You shared it and she disagreed with you.  Nothing wrong with that.  It is called a discussion.  And when people have differing opinions and ideas they state them.  I do not see how this is so hard to understand.  Again if you don't want people disagreeing with your opinion or ideas then you should keep it to yourself.
    Um, yeah, false. She responded to my opinion with "This is none of your business." You people need to stop looking for fights everywhere.
    Her opinion is that all that shit that you are talking and judging about is none of your business. That is her, as she put it, pet peeve, which is something that she believes and is her opinion.

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    Alright, I'm honestly starting to think people are on here just because they want the popularity vote (oh no! Should I not have said that?) you guys continue doing what you're doing. I'm not being a part of this anymore. Say my panties are in a bunch, I'm cowardly, a too sensitive newb, whatever. But seriously, for people saying IM judgemental, have you read your comments about judging me on being judgemental? Have a fantastic day! Oh, by the way.... That was sarcasm :)

    Nah, you just had an extremely naive opinion without anything to back it up. The fact is , your idea would trap thousands of people in loveless, possibly abusive marriages. It's not a good idea. People just pointed that out to you.
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    Pepper6 said:
    I lurk on a lot of these threads and notice just how often they turn into arguments. Geez.

    Anyway, for what its worth, I do think its *way* too easy for people to get married. I don't know *how* I would suggest making the process harder or complicated, but I think people do get married thinking "oh if it doesnt work out, no big deal, i'll get a divorce."

    I have a close friend who is dating a man that has been married and divorced 3 TIMES before he was 32. Now I don't know the specifics of each marriage and divorce, but quite obviously, that is a perfect example of a person who doesn't take marriage "seriously".
    Even so...how is this any of your business?  I'm not trying to be snarky, it's just a general pet peeve that people judge others when it has no bearing on their life whatsoever.  Great, this dude seems like a tool that doesn't choose his spouses well, but clearly your friend knows the score, so it's their decision where they take their relationship.  I just don't see how this affects you to the point where you think it should be more difficult to get married...
    Jesus Christ on a cracker. This is exactly what I'm talking about, people taking shit out of context. Did I say it was my business? Did I say I cared that she's dating him? No, I did not. I simply said, it is my opinion that he doesn't take marriage seriously. That's what the thread was about. She was asking opinions and I gave my opinion. Oh, because its your pet peeve? Well, why is it ok for you to share your opinion, but no one else to share theirs? Jesus.
    I was asking specifically to you saying that you would support making the process to get married more difficult because you think it's too easy.  You used this as an example to support that statement, so that's why I commented on it.

    Basically, all I'm saying is that I don't think it matters what examples anyone can come up with, or what their personal beliefs are about the ease of marriage, it shouldn't be legislated because that's getting too involved in people's personal lives in general.

    I think it's fine for you to think whatever you want to and advise your friends/family however you choose, it's just when people try to actually push legislation through that I think they go too far.
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    "All the shit I am talking"??? Are you serious right now??? HOW WAS I TALKING SHIT??? Did you even read my post???
    Oh. My. God.  I was referring to you talking shit/judging the guy who doesn't take marriage "seriously".  So yes, I did read your post.  You came off as very judgmental about him and his marriages.  Like you said you don't know the specifics so how can you judge someone when you don't know the whole story?  Maybe he does take marriage very seriously but maybe the women he was married to didn't.  You don't know so to make a judgement like that is not right.  And then to use this example to agree with making marriage happen more difficult is ludicrous.  Again everyone is different and every marriage is different and unless you are in the actual relationship you really have no right to judge their decisions or to use their divorce as a reason why entering a marriage should be made harder.

    Oh, by the way all of this was my opinion.

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    @Marshmallow22 - So me having a strong opinion about something equates to me taking life too seriously?  Really?  So sorry for having an opinion.  Next time I will just blow sugar and roses and fluffy little puppies up your ass instead to make you feel oh so validated.

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