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NWR: Children don't belong at certain events

DH and I went to our town's Oktoberfest event today. It's basically a beer garden, with food, held in the local minor league baseball stadium.

There are four levels of tickets: Beer-only, wine-only, beer and wine, and DD. The DD people get a special wristband and a free T-shirt.

This is a drinking event, y'all. 100+ craft brews, a dozen or more local wineries, and food. This is a drinking event.

I was shocked and appalled at the number of infants/babies/small children I saw at this event today. First of all, we live in central Pennsylvania and it was chilly and blustery today, so NO ONE should have had babies out unnecessarily. Second of ll, IT WAS A DRINKING EVENT.

So, we're standing in line, and a group of 20-something guys near us are getting a big rowdy. Nothing out of hand, just a lot of swearing and sexual jokes and whatever.

This mom of a young child was nearby and she overheard and huffed, loudly enough for us and the rowdy group to overhear, "I wish SOME PEOPLE would mind their language in front of SMALL CHILDREN."

I said, equally loudly, "I wish SOME PEOPLE would realise not all events are CHILD-FRIENDLY and stay the hell home." She shot me a dirty look and stormed off, dragging the toddler with her. DH and our friend burst out laughing. The rowdy guys cheered me on.

Maybe I should have been nicer, but DAMN -- this is a freaking DRINKING EVENT. Why the eff would you bring your kids??

(The question is rhetorical. The answer, as I perfectly well know, is because the helicopter parents can't bear to be separated from their speshul snowflakes for an afternoon but also can't understand why they have to change their lifestyles now that they've had kids.)
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I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'

Re: NWR: Children don't belong at certain events

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    WonderRedWonderRed member
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    edited October 2013
    Meh. We took my 6 year old with us to Oktoberfest in downtown Denver.  There were tons of kids there.  We drink in front of him all the time.  Not really that big of a deal.
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    I agree that parents shouldn't bring their kids to certain events and they definitely shouldn't expect people to behave differently just because they show up somewhere.  A couple of months ago I went to a concert at a bar and a lady brought her baby and toddler.  It was an "all ages event", but still.
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    WonderRed said:

    It's not the drinking in front of kids part that bugs me, because I drink in front of my nephew. It's that this event was billed as adults-only, there were NO kid-friendly activities, and the parents expected the other adults to curb their behaviour to conform to the parents' expectations of appropriate for their children. I'm sorry, but no. If you don't want your kids to hear swearing, don't take them to adults-only events. 
    Oh I agree she was in the wrong to say that.  Her precious babies are going to hear shit she doesn't like and if she want to shelter them from it, she should never leave the house.  But it's also incredibly judgemental of you to declare that  parents who take their kids to an afternoon, public Octoberfest event  are "helicopter parents can't bear to be separated from their speshul snowflakes for an afternoon but also can't understand why they have to change their lifestyles now that they've had kids."   

    Edited because I have no idea why I bolded part of that.
    I guess I can kind of see that. I just feel like, beer tickets were $25, wine tickets were $35, combined tickets were $55, and DD tickets were $10 or $15. So yes, it's public, but that's pricey to take your kids to. And there was no kids pricing, btw. You paid full price for your kid to get into this with you. 
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    WonderRedWonderRed member
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    edited October 2013
    BTW...I agree with 99.99% of everything you post so I hope you don't fault me for this .01%.  This is just kind of a button for me lately since my incredibly Baptist, has no filter mother has outright accused us (me with DS and all my friends with their kids) of being neglectful since we don't adhere to her very narrow beliefs. I mean WTF?!  It's not like we give him tequilla chasers with his beer.
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    WonderRed said:
    BTW...I agree with 99.99% of everything you post so I hope you don't fault me for this .01%.  This is just kind of a button for me lately since my incredibly Baptist, has no filter mother has outright accused us (me with DS and all my friends with their kids) of being neglectful since we don't adhere to her very narrow beliefs. I mean WTF?!  It's not like we give him tequilla chasers with his beer.
    Oh, god, I don't fault you at all! And maybe Denver's Oktoberfest is kid-friendly. The one we were at totally totally wasn't.

    Also, I am a totally over-indulgent aunt to my only nephew, and I take him all kinds of places. I love kids and have no problem with parents who take their kids everywhere, I just don't get the mentality of taking your kids somewhere that is clearly ADULTS ONLY and then being pissy when adults are doing adult things in front of your kid.

    What's your mother accused you of? I mean, unless you're beating the kid or giving him tequila with his beer... :) 
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    WonderRedWonderRed member
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    edited October 2013
    WonderRed said:
    BTW...I agree with 99.99% of everything you post so I hope you don't fault me for this .01%.  This is just kind of a button for me lately since my incredibly Baptist, has no filter mother has outright accused us (me with DS and all my friends with their kids) of being neglectful since we don't adhere to her very narrow beliefs. I mean WTF?!  It's not like we give him tequilla chasers with his beer.
    Oh, god, I don't fault you at all! And maybe Denver's Oktoberfest is kid-friendly. The one we were at totally totally wasn't.

    Also, I am a totally over-indulgent aunt to my only nephew, and I take him all kinds of places. I love kids and have no problem with parents who take their kids everywhere, I just don't get the mentality of taking your kids somewhere that is clearly ADULTS ONLY and then being pissy when adults are doing adult things in front of your kid.

    What's your mother accused you of? I mean, unless you're beating the kid or giving him tequila with his beer... :) 
    I used to let my oldest niece spend the night with me when she was 16 and then my best gay guy friend and I would take her out to the bar from 2-4 am when the stopped serving alcohol so she could dance and we could keep her safe.  I'm not sure my brother, also very Baptist, is aware of this to this day. She's 28 now.

    My mom just has issues.  She always has, they've always been directed at me, and we think she may be starting to develop some very early dementia that's making it worse.  A couple of examples from the last few years:     When DS was two  he was running though my living room and tripped and fell face first onto a big plastic toy.  He had a bruise on his cheek.  When I told her what happened she gave the the stink eye and told me she wishes I could just be honest because she's "seen my temper" and wouldn't be at all surprised if I had hit him. 

    He's 6.5 and can't ride a bike yet, because he doesn't want to do it.  She told me we're setting him up for social failure and threw out the word neglect. 

    We also don't allow him to stay with her on Sunday mornings or over night on Saturdays anymore becuase she keeps taking him to her church with her against both mine and his dad's wishes.  She told me if we aren't going to uphold our responibilty to make sure he's saved, she'll just have to do it herself.   It's going to be an interesting time next weekend when she witnesses our Navajo shaman friend, who is doing the ceremony, ensuring that our marriage is damned to hell.

    ETA:  She also regularly makes comments about FI not having a job or helping pay the bills.  He has been in his current job for four years.  He just works 100% remotely and on line,  so he can work whatever hours he wants, so long as he meets his deadlines and attends a phone conference once a month.  But she just really and truly believes he is an unemployed bum. 
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    Yesterday was terrible time to have babies outside for long periods of time. It was crazy windy in Central PA. I agree that I wouldn't have taken little ones to Oktoberfest, especially if there aren't any kids activities. 
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    I seriously doubt the toddler had any idea what those guys were even talking about.

    If there was nothing specifically banning kids from entering the festival (you can't really do that anyway), then they technically had the right to be there. It sounds like the festival organizers did everything possible to discourage parents from bringing kids (kids pay full price, no kids activities, billed event as exactly what it was, etc), but they probably couldn't legally tell people their kids couldn't come into a public place. I agree that the parents probably could have made a better decision by their kids, and the kids were probably bored, scared, and/or confused. They probably just really wanted to go and didn't have a sitter (or couldn't afford one, who probably would have been more expensive than the entrance fee). Or maybe they're just dumb or egotistical. But appropriate or not, they couldn't legally tell the parents not to bring them in.

    I say this as a 20+ year volunteer organizer for our local Oktoberfest, billed as a family-friendly event BUT it was well known it was also alcohol soaked. When we were told way back in the beginning that we couldn't legally turn away ANYONE from entering (including everyone from convicted violent criminals, pedophiles, and drug dealers, to kids, the handicapped, and transients), we altered things so that kids had activities, it was handicap accessable, and plenty of security around for everything else. If someone showed up and had the money to get in, we had to let them in. (If someone had a court order to stay away from kids, or for something else at the festival, we still had to let them in. It was their responsibility to stay away, and if they came anyway, they were just arrested and removed.) Yes, there was alcohol, drunk people, clandestine drug use, pedophiles, tons of junk food, and crazy people there with all the kids. But they were the parents responsibility, and if they wanted them there, they knew that going out in public meant they might be around undesirable people.
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    If your kids can behave like tiny adults, then I don't mind you bringing them to adult places. If you think bringing your kids to an adult event means everyone should bend over backwards to make it a kid-friendly event you are a selfish moron.
    I agree with this.

    OP-I think that women was incredibly out of line to think that everyone else's behavior should change so that her snowflakes don't hear bad words.  HOWEVER, your post did come across as a bit judgmental.  Just because you wouldn't take your kids to an even that was not specifically kid-friendly doesn't mean that other parents don't want to.  Some kids are fine not having any kid activities around. Personally when I was a kid I would have preferred to have gone to this type of event than a carnival with kiddie games, but I was a weird kid.  If there was nothing specifically banning kids, I don't think it's fair to judge parents who chose to bring their children (other than the ones who thought that everyone else should change their behavior to cater to their children) to an outdoor food festival that also had alcohol there.  I guess I just don't get why having alcohol present makes it inappropriate for kids to be there. It's like the brides that come on here saying that it'd be inappropriate for kids to be at their wedding because there will be BOOZE.  Nothing wrong with a kid-free wedding (we are having one), but IMHO I think the whole booze=OMG kids can't be around attitude is a bit ridiculous.  
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
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    I was quite drunk at a college hockey game once and said the f-word while waiting for food.  A lady with her grandchildren turned around and gave me such a dirty looks, and my friend apologized for me.   I said somewhat loudly to my friend that if people don't want their kids to hear curse words, don't bring them to a college hockey game which serves alcohol. 

     

    I don't have kids yet, and I'm not bending over backwards for the people who DO have them.  It was your choice, not mine, so be a parent and explain to them why the f-word is back and smack them if they ever say it!  How hard is that!?

     

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    The local Oktoberfest in Tulsa is sort-of kid friendly.  There are a couple "kiddie type" events like a mirror maze that usually pull in the drunk twenty-something ladies after they've had a pitcher.  There are usually kids EVERYWHERE and I can't help but think I'd never want to bring a kid there after dark.  I understand why parents do because ostensibly it's family friendly and they want to have a night out, but I'd never keep a kid there after dark personally.  However, I think I'd respond pretty much the same way if someone was making those sorts of remarks about keeping it kid-friendly in front of children.  And I'm usually the DD. 

    It's somewhat obvious to me that an event that pretty much exists so that adults can get together and drink pitchers of beer in public would get rowdy after dark with probably lots of foul language.  Not to mention the belly dancers that usually show up as an example of the local entertainment.  (Nothing wrong with belly dancing but the costumes are usually not terribly modest and the comments from the drunk male spectators definitely are not something I would subject children to.)
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    cborries said:

    I was quite drunk at a college hockey game once and said the f-word while waiting for food.  A lady with her grandchildren turned around and gave me such a dirty looks, and my friend apologized for me.   I said somewhat loudly to my friend that if people don't want their kids to hear curse words, don't bring them to a college hockey game which serves alcohol. 

     

    I don't have kids yet, and I'm not bending over backwards for the people who DO have them.  It was your choice, not mine, so be a parent and explain to them why the f-word is back and smack them if they ever say it!  How hard is that!?

     


    Well I wouldn't advocate hitting a child(I hope this was just a distasteful joke) but I agree with the overall point. Your inability to parent (have a conversation with your kid about how certain words are not ok to use) isn't MY problem or a reason why I should alter my speech patterns.

    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
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    nsweare said:
    My dad used to take me and brother to very not-kid-friendly events when I was a child. I HATED it. I was bored and I was uncomfortable. It was clear to me, even at that young age, that I wasn't supposed to be there and being around drunk idiots made me feel very uneasy. I now have a toddler and I wouldn't take my daughter to an Oktoberfest event like OP described. And feel free to flame away, but I sure as hell judge the parents that do. I'm not saying that parents need to sit at home and never go out and have fun, but for the love of all things, don't take them to an event like this! I think it's incredibly selfish. I'm sure someone can come up with some reason why it was absolutely necessary to bring a small child to a drinking event, but I'm not going buy it. I'm far from a perfect parent and I make mistakes. I would hope if I did something like take my kid to an inappropriate event like this, someone would call me out.
    There isn't one parenting style. And while yes, there are certain activities where children do not belong, I don't think an Oktoberfest is necessarily one of them. I'm with Liatris - if you know what your child could be exposed to (drunk people and poor language - the horror!) and you have taught your child appropriate behavior, who are you to judge?

    We went to parties/Oktoberfests growing up and we played with other kids whose parents brought them to parties/Oktoberfests. We had fun and enjoyed it. We would "practice" our behavior before we left. It was part of how we grew up. I like to think I turned out just fine since my parents didn't shelter me from everything. 
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    Our Oktoberfest event here is always loaded with kids. I once witnessed a guy in his 20s trip and spill beer all over a kid. I agree that it's not really a place for kids. There are no kid friendly things to do and there are drunk idiots all over the place. 

    Another place I was shocked to see kids - my ex was big into Phish. I went to a few concerts with him. There were people there with kids of all different ages - babies in strollers, toddlers, kids around 8 years old. There are people doing drugs and smoking pot all over the place and this is where you bring your kids? Bizarre. And questionable. And a lady ran me over with her kid's stroller. I'm pretty sure she was high. 
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    Another place I was shocked to see kids - my ex was big into Phish. I went to a few concerts with him. There were people there with kids of all different ages - babies in strollers, toddlers, kids around 8 years old. There are people doing drugs and smoking pot all over the place and this is where you bring your kids? Bizarre. And questionable. And a lady ran me over with her kid's stroller. I'm pretty sure she was high. 
    We were huge into Phish back in the day and I even wanted to go when they were here in August since it had been so long since we'd seen them, but FI said no (I don't even know him anymore!).  Yeah, there is no freaking way I'd take DS to a Phish concert. We've taken him to smaller, low key music festivals now and then, when our friends are playing in them but Phish... yeah.  Just no.
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    Another place I was shocked to see kids - my ex was big into Phish. I went to a few concerts with him. There were people there with kids of all different ages - babies in strollers, toddlers, kids around 8 years old. There are people doing drugs and smoking pot all over the place and this is where you bring your kids? Bizarre. And questionable. And a lady ran me over with her kid's stroller. I'm pretty sure she was high. 
    We were huge into Phish back in the day and I even wanted to go when they were here in August since it had been so long since we'd seen them, but FI said no (I don't even know him anymore!).  Yeah, there is no freaking way I'd take DS to a Phish concert. We've taken him to smaller, low key music festivals now and then, when our friends are playing in them but Phish... yeah.  Just no.
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    WonderRed said:


    Another place I was shocked to see kids - my ex was big into Phish. I went to a few concerts with him. There were people there with kids of all different ages - babies in strollers, toddlers, kids around 8 years old. There are people doing drugs and smoking pot all over the place and this is where you bring your kids? Bizarre. And questionable. And a lady ran me over with her kid's stroller. I'm pretty sure she was high. 
    We were huge into Phish back in the day and I even wanted to go when they were here in August since it had been so long since we'd seen them, but FI said no (I don't even know him anymore!).  Yeah, there is no freaking way I'd take DS to a Phish concert. We've taken him to smaller, low key music festivals now and then, when our friends are playing in them but Phish... yeah.  Just no.
    It's crazy! I even saw people with their kids on the lot. There's just so much inappropriateness going on there..lol. 
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    WonderRedWonderRed member
    5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper First Anniversary
    edited October 2013
    WonderRed said:


    Another place I was shocked to see kids - my ex was big into Phish. I went to a few concerts with him. There were people there with kids of all different ages - babies in strollers, toddlers, kids around 8 years old. There are people doing drugs and smoking pot all over the place and this is where you bring your kids? Bizarre. And questionable. And a lady ran me over with her kid's stroller. I'm pretty sure she was high. 
    We were huge into Phish back in the day and I even wanted to go when they were here in August since it had been so long since we'd seen them, but FI said no (I don't even know him anymore!).  Yeah, there is no freaking way I'd take DS to a Phish concert. We've taken him to smaller, low key music festivals now and then, when our friends are playing in them but Phish... yeah.  Just no.
    It's crazy! I even saw people with their kids on the lot. There's just so much inappropriateness going on there..lol. 
    Even the dumbest of our many many, very hippie dippy friends draws that line.

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    Our local Oktoberfest is family friendly as well.  It's really more like a craft fair with beer than anything else and they set up a play area for the kids as well.  Actually, we pretty much have the same "festival" several times throughout the year but it's called different things. 

    One place I don't get bringing kids to is Dave and Busters.  The midway is a straight up bar with video games.  It's a place adults go to have fun.  If you want to take your kids to play games, take them to Chucky Cheese. 
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    If it's an event that's kid-friendly, or if the kids are well-behaved, I have no issues. But when you bring your kids to a non-family-oriented event and then throw a hissy fit (as this woman did) when there's nothing non-alcoholic to drink (uhm...hello? It's an Oktoberfest event), and when you demand that people alter their behaviour and language because you brought your kids to a non-kid-friendly event, I'm going to judge you. That's just how it is. There were other kids at the event happily playing soccer (it was in a baseball stadium, so lots of open grass), drinking juice boxes, and having a grand old time. Those kids and parents didn't bother me at all. But the parents who want to bring their kids to an event and then have the event change its very nature to suit the children? No, not OK. 
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    maryemoomaryemoo member
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    edited November 2013
    WonderRed said:
    I used to let my oldest niece spend the night with me when she was 16 and then my best gay guy friend and I would take her out to the bar from 2-4 am when the stopped serving alcohol so she could dance and we could keep her safe.  I'm not sure my brother, also very Baptist, is aware of this to this day. She's 28 now.

    My mom just has issues.  She always has, they've always been directed at me, and we think she may be starting to develop some very early dementia that's making it worse.  A couple of examples from the last few years:     When DS was two  he was running though my living room and tripped and fell face first onto a big plastic toy.  He had a bruise on his cheek.  When I told her what happened she gave the the stink eye and told me she wishes I could just be honest because she's "seen my temper" and wouldn't be at all surprised if I had hit him. 

    He's 6.5 and can't ride a bike yet, because he doesn't want to do it.  She told me we're setting him up for social failure and threw out the word neglect. 

    We also don't allow him to stay with her on Sunday mornings or over night on Saturdays anymore becuase she keeps taking him to her church with her against both mine and his dad's wishes.  She told me if we aren't going to uphold our responibilty to make sure he's saved, she'll just have to do it herself.   It's going to be an interesting time next weekend when she witnesses our Navajo shaman friend, who is doing the ceremony, ensuring that our marriage is damned to hell.

    ETA:  She also regularly makes comments about FI not having a job or helping pay the bills.  He has been in his current job for four years.  He just works 100% remotely and on line,  so he can work whatever hours he wants, so long as he meets his deadlines and attends a phone conference once a month.  But she just really and truly believes he is an unemployed bum. 


    Ummmm...I couldn't ride a bike until March of this year and I was neither neglected nor a social failure...Maybe you should give her my number lol.

     

    ETA: I agree with you whole-heartedly OP! I'd have probably said something along the same lines!

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    WonderRed said:
    WonderRed said:
    BTW...I agree with 99.99% of everything you post so I hope you don't fault me for this .01%.  This is just kind of a button for me lately since my incredibly Baptist, has no filter mother has outright accused us (me with DS and all my friends with their kids) of being neglectful since we don't adhere to her very narrow beliefs. I mean WTF?!  It's not like we give him tequilla chasers with his beer.
    Oh, god, I don't fault you at all! And maybe Denver's Oktoberfest is kid-friendly. The one we were at totally totally wasn't.

    Also, I am a totally over-indulgent aunt to my only nephew, and I take him all kinds of places. I love kids and have no problem with parents who take their kids everywhere, I just don't get the mentality of taking your kids somewhere that is clearly ADULTS ONLY and then being pissy when adults are doing adult things in front of your kid.

    What's your mother accused you of? I mean, unless you're beating the kid or giving him tequila with his beer... :) 
    I used to let my oldest niece spend the night with me when she was 16 and then my best gay guy friend and I would take her out to the bar from 2-4 am when the stopped serving alcohol so she could dance and we could keep her safe.  I'm not sure my brother, also very Baptist, is aware of this to this day. She's 28 now.

    My mom just has issues.  She always has, they've always been directed at me, and we think she may be starting to develop some very early dementia that's making it worse.  A couple of examples from the last few years:     When DS was two  he was running though my living room and tripped and fell face first onto a big plastic toy.  He had a bruise on his cheek.  When I told her what happened she gave the the stink eye and told me she wishes I could just be honest because she's "seen my temper" and wouldn't be at all surprised if I had hit him. 

    He's 6.5 and can't ride a bike yet, because he doesn't want to do it.  She told me we're setting him up for social failure and threw out the word neglect. 

    We also don't allow him to stay with her on Sunday mornings or over night on Saturdays anymore becuase she keeps taking him to her church with her against both mine and his dad's wishes.  She told me if we aren't going to uphold our responibilty to make sure he's saved, she'll just have to do it herself.   It's going to be an interesting time next weekend when she witnesses our Navajo shaman friend, who is doing the ceremony, ensuring that our marriage is damned to hell.

    ETA:  She also regularly makes comments about FI not having a job or helping pay the bills.  He has been in his current job for four years.  He just works 100% remotely and on line,  so he can work whatever hours he wants, so long as he meets his deadlines and attends a phone conference once a month.  But she just really and truly believes he is an unemployed bum. 
     
     

    I was almost 10 before I felt like taking the training wheels off. Somehow I managed to turn into a socially well-adjusted teenager and adult who bikes all the time to work and for fun--bet that would come as a shock to your mom! Not wanting to ride a 2-wheeler when I was six doesn't take away any enjoyment from the 5-mile bike path that leads directly from my house to a brew pub now :)

    OP, props for actually saying that out loud! I probably would have just grumbled later to FI about it and wished I had said something...

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    Lowell14Lowell14 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    edited November 2013
    I agree that children shouldnt be at events like this. Our Christmas market has over 18 only in the beer tents at all times. I feel bad for kids that are sitting, bored out of their minds while their parents drink.

    OP, good for your for saying something to the self righteous mother :) if she doesn't want get child to hear adult language, dont go to adult oriented events.


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