14 years old: too young for life in prison?

NicoleSahara · March 2012

I was reading this article about minors being imprisoned for life:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/15/10670418-14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison

Do you think after a certain amount of time they should be given another chance in society, or do you think they should be locked up for life, the same as an adult would be for murdering?

jjolovich · March 2012

It depends on the crime i think, we had a huge crime here, where a 16 year old shot a man, and he wanted to be charged as a minor instead of an adult. But in my opionion you do the crime of an adult, you should be tried and punished as an adult. Overall any crimes like that should be treated as an eye for an eye.

AdeleDazeem · March 2012

At the outset, my knee jerk reaction was "14 is far too young." But, I read the article and it states that life in prison for those under 17 is only reserved for the most heinous crimes. The 16 year old who bludgeoned his neighbor and set his house on fire to cover up the crime or the 15 year old who stabbed his step brother to death? I'm sorry, but those kinds of acts come from an ugly and dark place in a human.

NicoleSahara · March 2012

I am sure after so many years in prison that most of them feel remorse for what they did (I would hope so anyway), but I don't think that is enough to get them out. Did you read about the 14 year old girl that stabbed, shot and then set fire to her own grandfather and aunt and then also tried killing her 10 year old sister? 14 is so young, but there are still actions that have life-long consequences.

J&K10910 · March 2012

I have a hard time with most children under 16 or so being incerated in any facility that isn't focused on treatment.

J&K10910 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:cec91d67-af04-4e5d-b44b-6fe6664f101e">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]I am sure after so many years in prison that most of them feel remorse for what they did (I would hope so anyway), but I don't think that is enough to get them out. Did you read about the 14 year old girl that stabbed, shot and then set fire to her own grandfather and aunt and then also tried killing her 10 year old sister? 14 is so young, but there are still actions that have life-long consequences.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

To expand on my previous post, IMO 14 is still young enough that treatment can have a big impact. I think that most 14 year Olds that would do something like that have some serious shiit going on, and locking them up is taking care of the symptoms without adddessing the problem.

AdeleDazeem · March 2012

I agree with you, JK. I think the 14 year olds can be responsive to treatment and should 100% be receiving it. But... with the idea that they will get out of prison one day? I just don't know if that's fair.

I'm not saying I have a better solution, though. Life is prison is harsh for such a young kid. But, particularly bad crimes need to be punished appropriately.

Also - your avatar for awhile was a pregnany lady. You fake Bumpie. :-)

ski2play · March 2012

Near and dear to my heart, this conversation.

In my opinion, (based on the crime), a 14 year old is not too old to be sentence to life in prison. You did the time, now do the time, I do not feel that if they are capable of doing the crime, (at that innocent age) then they are able to be rehabilitated.

My highschool girlfriend's son was killed by a 13 year old boy. See link below. Crazy, Crazy shiiiiit!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Smith_(murderer)

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:0757378c-257f-40e4-8258-7d24012e75e4">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison? : To expand on my previous post, IMO 14 is still young enough that treatment can have a big impact. I think that most 14 year Olds that would do something like that have some serious shiit going on, and locking them up is taking care of the symptoms without adddessing the problem.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

I agree with that. How do you determine if treatment is effective enough that they get another chance? Or do they receive treatment but still stay in prison for life?

ski2play · March 2012

J&K, I would like to keep an open mind even though I have a strong opinion on the subject. Please come back and elaborate on how society can determine that they have been rehabilitate to the point that they should be released and among the general population?

mehgank · March 2012

ski - I remember seeing that on tv, it was rated one of the worst (if not the worst) crime committed by a child. So sad.

I don't have much to add on the main subject of putting children in prison for life, but I will say that it frightens me just how violent the youth of America has gotten. I don't know if it's just me getting older or what, but it's really scary. And makes me almost afraid to have children of my own.

BrightFirefly · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:6e85c4ee-a0dd-469c-80eb-1e91a82c7a68">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]Near and dear to my heart, this conversation. In my opinion, (based on the crime), a 14 year old is not too old to be sentence to life in prison. You did the time, now do the time, I do not feel that if they are capable of doing the crime, (at that innocent age) then they are able to be rehabilitated. My highschool girlfriend's son was killed by a 13 year old boy. See link below. Crazy, Crazy shiiiiit! <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Smith_(murderer)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Smith_(murderer)</a>
Posted by ski2play[/QUOTE]

Wow. That is terrible. Not even terrible - worse than that.

I think fourteen is plenty old enough to grasp right from wrong. I mean - what's the difference between a thirteen year old doing the acts mentioned in that wikipedia link - and a twenty year old? Teenagers may be a bit more impulsive by nature - but that doesn't excuse their crimes.

celticmyss · March 2012

If someone who was 14 did serious amounts of time in prison I really don't think they would ever be able to function in society. Life in prison might be best for both them and society.

I see what J&K is saying about treatment and in a lot of cases I agree with her. I don't think all kids, no matter their age, can be rehabilitated. I know of a boy who murdered his dog and when that came out they also found out that he had been poisoning his parents. I can't remember exactly how old he was but under 15. That is someone who I don't think can ever have enough treatment.

Ski - a good friend is in a similar position to you except it was her mother that was murdered. We don't even try and talk about the death penalty and stuff like that because she, understandably, has very strong feelings on the matter.

dmiller9274 · March 2012

My asshole opinion on the matter is that any person, regardless of age, who brutally murders or sexually assaults another person should never be released into society again, unless there is a 100% guarantee that they are cured and will never commit a crime again.

chelseamb11 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:54a78612-e716-423a-917a-791b5803d8a3">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]My asshole opinion on the matter is that any person, regardless of age, who brutally murders or sexually assaults another person should never be released into society again, unless there is a 100% guarantee that they are cured and will never commit a crime again.
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

I actually agree with you. What sucks though, is how can you REALLY know that someone is cured? There's no way to know. As shitty as it is for a 14 year old to be put in prison for LIFE, there's just no way to know that they won't do it again. To me, the life of the people who he could potentially kill if he kills again is much more worthy of "saving" than his freedom is.

mehgank · March 2012

Chels - the jaded cynic inside me is always leery of murderers/rapists/etc being released from prison because of good behavior or rehabilitation. I just always automatically assume that they're play-acting just so they can get out of prison. I've obviously watched way too many episodes of Oz on HBO.

dmiller9274 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:c6f62f1e-a722-4b5c-931f-2acf3dcb831f">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison? : I actually agree with you. What sucks though, is how can you REALLY know that someone is cured? There's no way to know. As shitty as it is for a 14 year old to be put in prison for LIFE, there's just no way to know that they won't do it again. To me, the life of the people who he could potentially kill if he kills again is much more worthy of "saving" than his freedom is.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]
yeah, I don't think there is any way to know that someone is cured. <div>I have very very strong feelings when it comes to people who commit violent crimes. I don't care about them at all. I don't care about their well being, or quite honestly what even happens to them. I've got a big heart and can forgive a lot of things, but violent criminals are worthless to me. </div>

chelseamb11 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:c7b558c7-a838-4b45-9ac9-f523e7f59cf4">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]Chels - the jaded cynic inside me is always leery of murderers/rapists/etc being released from prison because of good behavior or rehabilitation. I just always automatically assume that they're play-acting just so they can get out of prison. I've obviously watched way too many episodes of Oz on HBO.
Posted by mehgank[/QUOTE]

I feel ya. I'm always worried about that. Our jail system is so flawed. I feel like people need to live out their sentence. End of story. No early releases or probations. All it does is make people feel less accountable for their actions.

BubbsNBubbs · March 2012

I think if you are old enough to do the crime...you are old enough to do the time. PERIOD.

There was a case recently where I live where some young boys sexually assualted a little girl and boy (brother and sister) at a park. After the boys took turns penetrating her with their fingers they made the little girl perform oral sex on them as well as her own brother!! They took videos of it on their cellphones.

They were tried as minors and because of that they will be free to go to school with other kids and never be required to register as a sex offender. In other words, if they move to a different city...these kids could be back with other children and possibly do the same thing to them. They would not be required to disclose any information to the new school district or local police. I think they may be on probation until they are 17 and then the records are closed.

IMO...they knew what they were doing, they videotaped it!!! If it were an adult that did that to a child and filmed it, not only would they get a child pornography charge but would most likely get the maximum sentence.

whitsy · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:54a78612-e716-423a-917a-791b5803d8a3">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]My asshole opinion on the matter is that any person, regardless of age, who brutally murders or sexually assaults another person should never be released into society again, unless there is a 100% guarantee that they are cured and will never commit a crime again.
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

Put me in the same corner. Kids at that age know exactly what they're doing, and while some therapy or rehabilitation might be beneficial, they still did something really heinous and should serve time for it. I'm willing to bet most people that commit horrible crimes were screwed up as kids, and that doesn't change their sentence.

KelaRenee · March 2012

I teach middle schoolers. They do not have full powers of logic nor do they fully understand the consequences of their actions.

Blueyed228 · March 2012

For me it depends on the nature of the crime. If its horribly heinous, then yeah, life it is, but if its not, then maybe life with the possibility for parole.

In my eyes, evil can show itself at any age. Some people are just pure evil and their crimes reflect it.

whitsy · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:101b90f8-fafc-4fbc-ae84-046874442732">Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]I teach middle schoolers. They do not have full powers of logic nor do they fully understand the consequences of their actions.
Posted by KelaRenee[/QUOTE]

I do too, and I disagree. They may not be completely full of logic, but they do know that actions have consequences. They've seen enough television and other media to know that murder is a crime.

J&K10910 · March 2012

The part of the brain that controls logical reasoning and executive decision making, amongst other important things, does not fully mature until most people are in their early 20s. There would be criteria to be met, and they would be evaluated by mental health professsionals. It's not an exact science, so of courses it will be imperfect. Just like sentencing, parole, other mental health services. So no 100 guarantee, but lets be realthere is no 100 guarantee that any of us wouldn't commit a heinous crime either, and we're not locked up just because it can't be guaranteed.

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:2fc676d0-7ef6-427b-99a7-6fd8d5c72520">Re:14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]The part of the brain that controls logical reasoning and executive decision making, amongst other important things, does not fully mature until most people are in their early 20s. There would be criteria to be met, and they would be evaluated by mental health professsionals. It's not an exact science, so of courses it will be imperfect. Just like sentencing, parole, other mental health services. So no 100 guarantee, but lets be realthere is no 100 guarantee that any of us wouldn't commit a heinous crime either, and we're not locked up just because it can't be guaranteed.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

I think even if there <em>was</em> a guarantee (which we've established there cannot be) they wouldn't do it again that that's not enough of a reason to be released. They're not just in there to protect society, they are also in there as punishment. Now as far as what is just/fair for taking away someone's life, I don't know the answer to that. I do think how heinous the crime was should be a contributing factor, but I know if a family member of mine was murdered, heinous or not, I would want them in prison for the rest of their life. I would hope I could find it in my heart to someday forgive them, but I don't think I would want them to ever get out of prison, regardless of how much professional help they received or how much better they had become.

J&K10910 · March 2012

I don't disagree that part of it is punishment. But I also don't think you can punish a child and yes, IMO a 14 year old is a child in the same way as you punish an adult. It's not logical. Their brains don't work the same way as adults' brains.

Blueyed228 · March 2012

J- what about a sociopath though? I know you cant really diagnose it until 18, but if a child is showing these tendencies, and then commits a horrendous crime, do you think that is fixable?

J&K10910 · March 2012

Well you can't "cure" personality disorders. Obviously there will always be exceptions, and I'm not advocating that if they are deemed to pose a great riskas someone with antisocial personality disorder certainly couldthat the shouldn't be held. But that's not everyone, and there are so many factors that go into it and would need to be considered

J&K10910 · March 2012

Jesus this mobile site sucks. It's taking out all my damn punctuation.

Blueyed228 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_14-years-old-too-young-for-life-in-prison?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fba68487-1fc3-4afb-965a-cb251e0fe3d8Post:b963404c-a76c-439e-8350-dfac53ad3ede">Re:14 years old: too young for life in prison?</a>:
[QUOTE]Well you can't "cure" personality disorders. Obviously there will always be exceptions, and I'm not advocating that if they are deemed to pose a great riskas someone with antisocial personality disorder certainly couldthat the shouldn't be held. But that's not everyone, and there are so many factors that go into it and would need to be considered
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

I agree, I just wonder how they would legislate that. Thats where it gets gray for me. You have to say either yes, for certain crimes, they can be tried as an adult, or no, they cant. You cant say yes, if they are potential sociopaths, then you can charge them, but if they are not, you cant. If that makes sense.

I think I would be ok with a mandatory 10 years in some kind of facility for certain crimes. That way, by the time they are out, they are fully mature (at least brain wise) and hopefully have gotten so rehabilitation. I dont agree with the out at 18 that happens.

J&K10910 · March 2012

Well but that's sort of what they do now. And I guess I imagine it sort of like When someone is found not guilty by reason of insanity or guilty but mentally ill, where it's a sort of indefinite thing, and when they're "better" they're released. If they don't get "better" they're not released. Then you wouldn't need to try them as adults to get that life sentence for those that really need it.

14 years old: too young for life in prison?

Re: 14 years old: too young for life in prison?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards