Women's Rights

specialk84 · February 2012

Next month is Women's History Month. I'll be participating in an event at my church where women of different age groups will be sharing what the women's rights movement means to them.

How has the women's rights movement affected your life? Big things, little things, whatever. What can you do now that you wouldn't have been able to do without the women's suffrage efforts and everything that came after that?

musicalsunlight · February 2012

I think many of us all have similar rights that we wouldn't have had otherwise. Voting, schooling, workforce, EEOC, etc.

NOLAbridealmost · February 2012

I would just like to share an anecdote.

The other day at my job I received a letter in mail from a client's previous attorney (she fired him for a variety of reasons). The previous attorney, a man, wrote to me to ask us to protect the costs that he fronted in the client's case.

He knew that I was the new attorney because I had sent him a dismissal letter signed by me.

His letter to me was addressed to "Gentleman," as in "Gentleman: please see to it that my costs are protected blah blah blah"

It SHOCKED me. And the fact that it shocked me I think speaks mountains as to how far women have come. Because not even 20 years ago it would have been perfectly natural to assume that almost every lawyer at a firm would be male.

The guy came off looking like a huge idiot and everyone had a good laugh about how out of touch he was.

And, yes, I replied, "Ladies: please be aware that your costs will be duly protected." It might have been slightly unprofessional but I hope it got his attention.

specialk84 · February 2012

Do you feel your experience as a woman is different from your mother's generation? Your grandmother's?

aragx6 · February 2012

Title IX is a big one that hasn't been said yet -- my mom was a great athlete and lettered in the only sport available to girls at the time -- roller hockey.

edit: I meant field hockey. Is that the same thing?

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

I'm a grad student, which is something that would have been much more difficult or impossible if it weren't for our forefeminists!

Avion22 · February 2012

A generation ago there we NO WOMEN who did my job (military aviator).

When my mom grew up, the only acceptable jobs for women were secretary, nurse, or teacher (she became a nurse). She brought my sister and I up to believe that we could be anything or do anything. In the early 80s, that was still a pretty big dream.

My sister ended up as an Emergency Room Doctor, and I fly fighters in the Air Force. If it weren't for the brave women who went before us, and were the FIRST, despite the odds being stacked against them in male-dominated jobs, neither of us would be in our jobs. And if it weren't for our mother telling us EVERY DAY that we could do and be what we wanted, we never would have believed it and done it.

aragx6 · February 2012

I was a journalism major and even a generation ago that field was such a ridiculous boys club -- the men were reporters, the women secretaries. Totally not the case anymore. God I love me some Christiane Amanpour.

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

I would have never gotten a Ph.D. in Chemistry. NEVER. Old man's club and still is to many of the older generation professors.

specialk84 · February 2012

How old are you, Avion?

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:b67938e0-bd38-49aa-b89b-a5029257e84a">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]When my mom grew up, the only acceptable jobs for women were secretary, nurse, or teacher (she became a nurse). She brought my sister and I up to believe that we could be anything or do anything.
Posted by Avion22[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what my mom said to me! Both in job choice and my sister and I doing what we wanted.

Are you my sister, Avion? :-)

Avion22 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:388d0d0a-b1f1-41c9-ba2c-85c13682db4a">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]How old are you, Avion?
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>31, born in 1980. My sister was born in 1978. My mom was born in 1950.

</div>

musicalsunlight · February 2012

I think my experience has been different to an extent than my mom, though of course different than my grandma. My grandma didn't go to college and went straight to babymakin', and then later went to work part time as a dental assistant after my mom and aunt were in HS i think.

specialk84 · February 2012

My grandmother was a nurse, and she used to tell me that if I was lucky, I'd marry a man who would let me work outside the home. If I was really lucky, I could be a nurse and meet a nice doctor to marry.

My parents told me I could be whatever I want, including a doctor.

Myy dad was furious when he found out someone gave me the talking Barbie that said, "Math is hard. Let's go shopping!" It went in the trash, and he never bought me another Barbie.

baystateapple · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:cf1b4e53-7297-4f8e-9ece-12233cce3eca">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm a grad student, which is something that would have been much more difficult or impossible if it weren't for our forefeminists!
Posted by Gabrielle76[/QUOTE]

This here.

I'm taking a course in women's history for my M.A. right now, and it's amazing what some of these women had to endure in order to obtain the same rights as men.

I work for the Catholic Church, which one of our parishioners referred to as the "last bastion of male chauvanism." Some days it is so hard to keep my mouth shut. When I got married, so many people (men and women) asked me if I was going to quit my job. Last I checked, being married didn't give H an automatic huge raise, and we can't afford to have me stay home (I wish). I didn't know that so many people still lived in the mindset that a woman would automatically quit her job when she got married.

ETA: I am the first woman on my father's side of the family to get a B.A., and only the second woman on my mom's side of the family (after my cousin) to go for my M.A.

gailpete · February 2012

When I was graduating from high school (1974) I went to the guidance counselor to talk about college and I asked about engineering programs, since my dad had suggested it as a possibility (I enjoyed math & science and knew teaching was not for me). The counselor told me, "You can't be an engineer, you're a girl!".

I ignored him and got my bachelor's and masters degree in engineering.

aragx6 · February 2012

My grandmother went to college and was actually in advertising for a while (like Peggy on Mad Men!), but the major difference is that when she was married she was expected to quit working. She didn't entirely and instead became a high school English teacher -- something considered "acceptable" for a married woman. She helped my grandpa be a professional golfer and then put him through law school and then he left her with the 4 kids and never had to pay another dime for their care.

musicalsunlight · February 2012

My mom has always been the breadwinner in our family. Even though my dad has a PhD, my mom still makes a good 20-30k more than him per year.

aragx6 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:e3c888ae-edee-4e28-95f5-0e5346bcc198">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]My grandmother was a nurse, and she used to tell me that if I was lucky, I'd marry a man who would let me work outside the home. If I was really lucky, I could be a nurse and meet a nice doctor to marry. My parents told me I could be whatever I want, including a doctor. Myy dad was furious when he found out someone gave me the talking Barbie that said, "<strong>Math is hard. Let's go shopping</strong>!" It went in the trash, and he never bought me another Barbie.
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

musicalsunlight · February 2012

Math is hard, and I'd rather go shopping. But that is neither here nor there.

Avion22 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:e3c888ae-edee-4e28-95f5-0e5346bcc198">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]My grandmother was a nurse, and she used to tell me that if I was lucky, I'd marry a man who would let me work outside the home. If I was really lucky, I could be a nurse and meet a nice doctor to marry. My parents told me I could be whatever I want, including a doctor. <strong>Myy dad was furious when he found out someone gave me the talking Barbie that said, "Math is hard. Let's go shopping!" It went in the trash, and he never bought me another Barbie.</strong>
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

<div>That sounds like something my dad would have done! He was just as big a feminist as my mother was. I guess that's what happens when you have two daughters:-)</div>

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:d235236b-18c6-48dd-894e-57362be9b90e">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Women's Rights : This here. I'm taking a course in women's history for my M.A. right now, and it's amazing what some of these women had to endure in order to obtain the same rights as men. I work for the Catholic Church, which one of our parishioners referred to as the "last bastion of male chauvanism." Some days it is so hard to keep my mouth shut. When I got married, so many people (men and women) asked me if I was going to quit my job. Last I checked, being married didn't give H an automatic huge raise, and we can't afford to have me stay home (I wish). I didn't know that so many people still lived in the mindset that a woman would automatically quit her job when she got married. ETA: I am the first woman on my father's side of the family to get a B.A., and only the second woman on my mom's side of the family (after my cousin) to go for my M.A.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

I have the opposite problem. I have everyone asking me why I'm not working more, why aren't I applying to professorship positions, why aren't I dreaming BIG BIG BIG?? Um, because I can't do it all.

I will admit the dark side: that having and doing it all is not easy. It's been a struggle to decide where to lie my career path because I love both my husband and my job. Not equally, of course, but in different versions of me. It's been a tough balancing act that will only get harder.

specialk84 · February 2012

My mom was very successful in her career. She always told me I had to work twice as hard, and I should never show weakness.

She worked hard to get so far in life, and I think she's still afraid that it can all be taken away.

aragx6 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:bc654213-fcd3-4150-89a0-956b2a0968df">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Women's Rights : That sounds like something my dad would have done! He was just as big a feminist as my mother was. <strong>I guess that's what happens when you have two daughters:-)
</strong>Posted by Avion22[/QUOTE]

I wish! My dad, though I loved him dearly, was such a diick about that stuff. He believed <em>I</em> could do anything and I'm so thankful for that!), but he was awful to my mom. He believed after they got married that she didn't need her own friends anymore and that she should just automatically be friends with his friends' wives. Only after my parents split did my mom get closer to many of her old high school and college friends.

Starqueg · February 2012

Sometimes I think my family has gone against the grain for a long time. My Nana and her mother both graduated from High School, my other grandmother has a college degree. Both of my grandmothers have always worked, even when raising a family, but they never had management positions or sought them. My Nana was a legal secretary and my grandmother a church organist. I'm not the first woman in my family to be pursuing a graduate degree.
I have lived a very different life than both my mother and grandmother's though. I'm 29 years old. When my mother was my age, she had three children, the oldest of whom was almost six, the youngest was 14 months. When my father's mother was my age, she had three children, the oldest was six and the youngest was 1 month old. I am still not married have no children, and have been told my Nana that I'm too old to have children.
The concept of having a career instead of just a job is foreign to my Nana. My mother never had a career either, never finished college, but had a child with severe disabilities for whom she was a full time caregiver.

In my personal experiences, I have access to employment that won't be terminated upon saying "I do" or getting pregnant. Unfortunately, there is a big push these days to go back to the mythical 1950s, where married women didn't work, birth control was hard to come by, and everyone was happy. As a young woman today, that scares me to no end.

baystateapple · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:68d9e6c8-73b3-4c77-8ae2-6836c73f29ed">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Women's Rights : I have the opposite problem. I have everyone asking me why I'm not working more, why aren't I applying to professorship positions, why aren't I dreaming BIG BIG BIG?? Um, because I can't do it all. I will admit the dark side: that having and doing it all is not easy. It's been a struggle to decide where to lie my career path because I love both my husband and my job. Not equally, of course, but in different versions of me. It's been a tough balancing act that will only get harder.
Posted by Joy2611[/QUOTE]

I bet, Joy. That must be difficult :(

The biggest right we should be asking for is equality, and the acceptance and allowance to live our lives the way we want. If we want to work hard, we should do it. If we want to be SAHM or SAHW, we shouldn't feel badly about it. I don't see why there has to be this catch-22 about how we want to live our lives.

MattsPenguin · February 2012

It's interesting. In my family, the women are very educated. Back in college, I received a letter from my grandmother (just a little bit of mail kind of letter), and she discussed the fact that she had dated a guy from Purdue back when she was in college at Indiana University. I mentioned this to my roommate, who was very surprised that my grandmother had gone to college. Yes, not only did my grandmother go to college in the late 40s / early 50s, but my great grandmother went to teaching college back in the 20s. So going to college was never a big deal for the women in my family.

Even now, I'm in a male dominated field (engineering), and no one here even bats an eye at the women in our office. I don't know if it's the fact that we have a very high women to men ratio at our company or what. One day I was sitting in a meeting with some clients. I looked around the room and realized that out of the 6 people in the room, I was the only one who was a native English speaker. It was only THEN that I also realized that I was the only woman. I think that says a lot about where society is today.

kmmssg · February 2012

Avion is my hero.....now I get your screen name!

When I joined the military the first time (1978) women had just recently integrated into co-ed units. Not exactly sure of the year but I'm thinking it was in the early 70's that we invaded regular military units. Wasn't always well received but I was 18 at the time and didn't realize just how bad things were.

When I went back in in 1986 I got a real awakening. I joined the Guard and applied for the unit clerk job with was active duty with the Guard. I got it within 3 months of joining. Keep in mind I was the only woman in that building mon-fri for 5 years. We had 4 other females who were traditional "weekend-warriors."

I could tell that the undertone was a question of was I there to lay everyone in the unit or was I a lesbian. There were times I couldn't breath right because I owned a uterus. I'm dead serious.

I overcame that by becoming well acquainted with all the guys moms/wives/so's. My credibility jumped exponentially once all those women were on my side. Back then doing your job just wasn't enough to be recognized as a Soldier if you were a female.

I also made sure I was moving the heavy stuff when we were going to the field and I never let a well meaning buddy take something heavy from me to help me. I was always on one end of whatever I had to move. That was noticed a lot more than I thought. I did everything I could to make sure I was included and down in the dirt with any and everybody else.

Jumping to the present: The laws that allowed us to serve in regular units set things in motion for the women of today's military. Back "in my day" Avion would not be flying anything - girls were not allowed to go to flight school. Now we have some extraordinary female aviators!

The opportunities opened to women today in the military are based on a lot of hard work towards equality. I work with many women of my daughters' generation who have no clue what I went through and haven't dealt with it. That is not to say that they have never dealt with discrimination, but things are so much better today and they were 26 years ago.

Starqueg · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:68d9e6c8-73b3-4c77-8ae2-6836c73f29ed">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Women's Rights : I have the opposite problem. I have everyone asking me why I'm not working more, why aren't I applying to professorship positions, why aren't I dreaming BIG BIG BIG?? Um, because I can't do it all. I will admit the dark side: that having and doing it all is not easy. It's been a struggle to decide where to lie my career path because I love both my husband and my job. Not equally, of course, but in different versions of me. It's been a tough balancing act that will only get harder.
Posted by Joy2611[/QUOTE]

One of my sociology professors was talking about this last year. She's an adjunct, has two kids, and is working on finishing her Phd. Adjuncts get paid really badly, and to be on the tenure track, you basically have to give up having a life so you can constantly work to be published. For her, she has to choose between being a full professor and being active in raising her children. At least for now, she's staying an adjunct.

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:e84e6195-3e55-44c8-b1f5-e8e5cb74def2">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Women's Rights : I bet, Joy. That must be difficult :( The biggest right we should be asking for is equality, and the acceptance and allowance to live our lives the way we want. If we want to work hard, we should do it. If we want to be SAHM or SAHW, we shouldn't feel badly about it. I don't see why there has to be this catch-22 about how we want to live our lives.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

I agree!

I just wish that I didn't have to pick my kids or my job. You can't "take a few years off" in most careers and most especially in mine. I cringe at the idea and I wouldn't do it, but I wish it wasn't so frowned upon.

Those little people that will one day run the world? They need parents and education and love. I can't give that to them if you work me 70 hours a week and want me to do more more more. It's like we have veils over eyes about the whole thing.

entropicbeauty · February 2012

Both my grandmothers were stay at home moms....my mother is a nurse who has worked her way up the ranks and now has an incredibly good job with a VA hospital. She makes significantly more than my father and has much better job security (my father has a PhD, but that has meant little for his earnings over the years).

My father likes to say that when you raise your daughters to be feminists, that is exactly what you will get. My sisters and myself are all strong-minded, hard-working women who all have careers in what we went to school for. In my relationship, I am the breadwinner and have equal or MORE say in finances and major life decisions than my partner and we're BOTH okay with that.

I cringe to think what life would have been like for me if I had graduated from college 20 years ago. Careers were much more limited for women and MUCH more biased (salary and other-wise) than they are today.

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