Women's Rights

NOLAbridealmost · February 2012

Truth to Joy and Star. In my field, there are more females than males in law school but there are practically no female partners at firms because many women stay in lesser roles at the firm (or leave the practice entirely) to raise their kids.

I've always thought that at the very least men and women should both get paid family leave for when a new baby is born; it would make it so much easier to cope with the sleep schedules/feedings/etc.

I think our society has begun to accept women in positions of power, but we really need wide, overarching structural changes to society as a whole--the workplace environment, school schedules, providing families with childcare, etc.-- to really make it conducive to raising a family and working at the same time.

Avion22 · February 2012

kmmsg -- thank you a million times. It's women like YOU who paved the way so I can do what I do without anybody caring about my gender. You are MY hero:-)

(sweet sappy moment is over....now let's all go kick some *ss!)

baystateapple · February 2012

My job has zero paid maternity leave. We have to use our vacation and sick time, but after that it's unpaid.

Hi, we're the Church! We love babies!

...wait...

musicalsunlight · February 2012

I completely agree, Joy and NOLA. I want to start a family sooner rather than later but at the same time, I want to start my career ASAP (still in law school now). It sucks that they are intersecting and I am not sure what the best way to go about it is.

SarahPLiz · February 2012

When I was growing up, I thought that if you were a man, you were a doctor and if you were a woman, you were a nurse. But to me at that time they were the same job, just different titles. My mother set me straight real quick like. I think it is interesting that in her family of 5 girls, there is a teacher turned Realtor, another teacher, a pediatrician, a nurse and then a PHD in MicroBiology (Professor/researcher)... in that order. Its like the world changed between the 1st daughter and the last one.

My mother was raised in Alexandria VA and went to school with the children of diplomats so she had an awesomely open world view (not so much anymore after 30 years in our small town, sad to say). College was an expectation. For us it was billed as the next logical step after high school. She says that's the same thing he parents did with her and her sisters, even though it was out of the ordinary at the time.

I work in an industry where men still dominate (religious institutions) and the contributions of women are marginalized, just based on their sex. I hate it. I want a new job.

Starqueg · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:d94b8900-881a-4b8d-9e74-ac7e1d7deffa">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]Truth to Joy and Star. In my field, there are more females than males in law school but there are practically no female partners at firms because many women stay in lesser roles at the firm (or leave the practice entirely) to raise their kids. I've always thought that at the very least men and women should both get paid family leave for when a new baby is born; it would make it so much easier to cope with the sleep schedules/feedings/etc. I think our society has begun to accept women in positions of power, but we really need wide, overarching structural changes to society as a whole--the workplace environment, school schedules, providing families with childcare, etc.-- to really make it conducive to raising a family and working at the same time.
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

My fiance is a 3L right now, in his last semester and almost a real lawyer. You can bet that his career won't be hampered by becoming a father.

mbody · February 2012

Do you remember this whole thing? JC Penny made this shirt then it was pulled due to such bad back lash? Like seriously?!?!

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/08/jcpenneys-too-pretty-to-do-homework-shirt-pulled/

mizutamababy · February 2012

Right now I'm reading A Short History of Women which deals with a family history of women during the fight for sufferage and afterwards... in the eyes of each woman at that period and what they faced/how it affected them. A pretty good read so far if someone's feeling inspired.

I was the first woman in my family to go to university... My mom barely graduated high school and started working as a secretary. Later when she found out she was pregnant with me and going to have to do it alone, she got some training to do accounts payable work and earn more. My grandmother had to quit school after the 2nd grade to work on the family farm. She was pregnant with my mom and married by 17, and divorced at about the same age I am, 26. Later she remarried, but even after both marriages she never stopped working because neither husband made enough money at the time. Bbecause of her hard work they've had little financial trouble and she gained a lot of knowledge in various fields..

But I think in both cases my grandmother married for financial stability/raising a child. My mother was able to choose to go it alone, which says a lot of how the times have changed. I personally wouldn't want to, but I'm glad I have the freedom of choice and that their hard work made it possible for me to have things that they couldn't. Both were really supportive about letting me follow whatever path I wanted to go down.

MattsPenguin · February 2012

I know that it's different when trying to make partner and it can derail your career to some degree, but I always like to discuss my aunt.

She has her law degree. I don't remember what she was doing prior to having kids (I wasn't very old at the time), but she took time off to be a SAHM (her husband was and still is a very successful corporate lawyer). Anyway, she then came back and is now a state judge. I guess it depends on the career path you want to take, but it obviously didn't HURT her career in the long run to take time off.

musicalsunlight · February 2012

That shirt is annoying but there have been plenty just like it that have been worn or marketed that are the same or not much better. All of the sayings on the butts of pants or even front of shirts: bad girl, princess, plays well with others, etc.

musicalsunlight · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:4e7c563d-4d66-4d63-9ddd-cf366cd3f5af">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]I know that it's different when trying to make partner and it can derail your career to some degree, but I always like to discuss my aunt. She has her law degree. I don't remember what she was doing prior to having kids (I wasn't very old at the time), but she took time off to be a SAHM (her husband was and still is a very successful corporate lawyer). Anyway, she then came back and is now a state judge. I guess it depends on the career path you want to take, but it obviously didn't HURT her career in the long run to take time off.
Posted by MattsPenguin[/QUOTE]

How old is your aunt? I think the legal field has changed in the regard that it is so much more competitive now because of the huge difference in people looking for legal jobs vs. jobs available. It is totally different now than it even was 10 years ago. That is why I am more worried about the ability to go back into the workforce.

daria24 · February 2012

My family is a little against the grain as well. My grandmother (and great grandmother actually) both graduated from college (and my grandmother is 92, so it was EXTREMELY rare for her to go to college, let alone my great-grandmother). My grandmother out-earned her husband (she was a teacher, he was a factory worker). Both my parents were school teachers, but my mother eventually had higher pay than my father.

I make more than my FI and I work in a field (TV) where the gender roles are pretty divided. There is a pretty even mix of producers and editors, but most tech jobs (camera, lighting, etc) are about 95% men. And it's nearly impossible for a woman to be taken seriously as a camera person or a director, unless it's a female-oriented show. More often than not, I am the only woman out in the field and the sexual harrassment can be pretty intense.

mbody · February 2012

Yeah, I realize there have been other t-shirts like it but with the Pennys one you don't even have to "read between the lines."

SarahPLiz · February 2012

On the other hand, if you look at DH's history, it wasn't so much women's rights, but women's conscripted duties. He grew up in Communist Romania and came from a long line of mathematicians and physicists. At that point in time, you took a test and the government told you what profession you would have. His maternal grandmother was a physics professor. HIs mom and dad are both computer scientists. In fact, they met in college. In that society, basically everyone worked. He's not aware of anyone that was really a SAHM except maybe in the rural areas. I think its just interesting to hear about a culture where it was expected that everyone worked outside the home.

specialk84 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:7070c1c9-98cd-44ff-b7f9-a7a9282f3725">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]Right now I'm reading A Short History of Women which deals with a family history of women during the fight for sufferage and afterwards... in the eyes of each woman at that period and what they faced/how it affected them. A pretty good read so far if someone's feeling inspired. I was the first woman in my family to go to university... My mom barely graduated high school and started working as a secretary. Later when she found out she was pregnant with me and going to have to do it alone, she got some training to do accounts payable work and earn more. My grandmother had to quit school after the 2nd grade to work on the family farm. She was pregnant with my mom and married by 17, and divorced at about the same age I am, 26. Later she remarried, but even after both marriages she never stopped working because neither husband made enough money at the time. Bbecause of her hard work they've had little financial trouble and she gained a lot of knowledge in various fields..<strong> But I think in both cases my grandmother married for financial stability/raising a child. My mother was able to choose to go it alone, which says a lot of how the times have changed</strong>. I personally wouldn't want to, but I'm glad I have the freedom of choice and that their hard work made it possible for me to have things that they couldn't. Both were really supportive about letting me follow whatever path I wanted to go down.
Posted by mizutamababy[/QUOTE]

<div>That's another good point. Women today don't HAVE to get married if they want to have children. They won't be shunned by society for going it alone.</div><div>
</div><div>Women are capable of providing for their families instead of having to rely on their husbands.</div>

kcscejal · February 2012

I am starting medical school this summer. I have 2 sisters, and we all went to college. In my family it was just the next step you take after high school. We were always raised to believe we could be anything we wanted. I'm glad my parents encouraged us to dream big, but never pushed us in any certain direction. I'm going to be a doctor, my little sister is in nursing school, and my youngest sister is a college freshman debating between law school and becoming an Englsih teacher, and my parents are extremely proud of all of us and celebrate all of our accoomplishments. My mom never went to college. She has always worked, but never really had a career. My grandmothers never even did that.

As for raising a family, H and I have decided he will either be a stay at home dad, or only work part time. I have never had the desire to stay at home with the kids, and I'm so grateful that I found someone who's willing to support me in my dreams and make having a career and a family possible. It's what works for us, and I'm glad we are able to make that choice. That to me is the most important thing.

Avion22 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:74b416e5-233f-4f7b-84eb-d9b4642d9067">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]On the other hand, if you look at DH's history, it wasn't so much women's rights, but women's conscripted duties. He grew up in Communist Romania and came from a long line of mathematicians and physicists. At that point in time, you took a test and the government told you what profession you would have. His maternal grandmother was a physics professor. HIs mom and dad are both computer scientists. In fact, they met in college. In that society, basically everyone worked. He's not aware of anyone that was really a SAHM except maybe in the rural areas. I think its just interesting to hear about a culture where it was expected that everyone worked outside the home.
Posted by SarahPLiz[/QUOTE]

<div>I think it's fantastic (though not surprising) that in a society where aptitude was the only thing that mattered, women regularly ended up in math, science, and technology disciplines. </div>

kmmssg · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:6530920d-2dfa-461e-982b-dfdb55968893">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]kmmsg -- thank you a million times. It's women like YOU who paved the way so I can do what I do without anybody caring about my gender. You are MY hero:-) (sweet sappy moment is over....now let's all go kick some *ss!)
Posted by Avion22[/QUOTE]

I'm in!!! Just so you know, I started in the Air Force world (actually quite literally as my dad was career AF and I was born on an AF base) and somehow I ended up on the Dark Side when I came back in in '86. AF will always have a warm stop in my heart.

It absolutely thrills me when I see women in the military (or ANY profession, actually) able to achieve things on merit and brains rather than gender. I wasn't part of the 60's feminist movement as I was in elementary school back then. But the late 70s,80s, etc I got a close up look in the military and fought the system for quite awhile.

On that very same note, my all time dream job? Stay at home Mom. I divorced very early on when my girls were little and right after I had gone back into the military so I needed a career to feed the little buggers. (my nursing home better seriously rock) SAHW or SAHM is just as important and noble as any career outside the home. Our society needs to embrace all aspects of women and our goals and ambitions. Both of DH's sisters have Engineering degrees and they are both SAHM's. It is important to them and they and their DH's made the decision to go that route. I greatly respect their decision.

MattsPenguin · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:1fff1399-2c03-4f23-b56f-0158ce663ca8">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Women's Rights : How old is your aunt? I think the legal field has changed in the regard that it is so much more competitive now because of the huge difference in people looking for legal jobs vs. jobs available. It is totally different now than it even was 10 years ago. That is why I am more worried about the ability to go back into the workforce.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]

She is in her early 50s. I think she was appointed to her judgeship in 2003. I'm sure she was back to work before then. Sometime in the late 90s.

ceh789 · February 2012

So much of what the women's rights movement has given me - I absolutely take for granted. I have a great career, I've lived on my own supporting myself since college, I bought a house on my own, I've had a pretty great sex life - all of that while being single. The only time I've felt "pressure to get married" has been at weddings when they do the frigging bouquet toss but that's mostly rude old ladies.

The "dark side" of the women's rights movement is what I'm discovering now, as I prepare to marry and start a family. I am routinely shocked when my oh-so-liberated "friends" are suprised at my decision to change my name. I don't want to hear again about the damage I'll do to my career if we are blessed with children and I decide to stay home as we are planning. And yes, I'm going to have my father escort me down the aisle at 37 - he is looking forward to it and I wouldn't take it from him for the world.

What has been most suprising to me about the judgement I'm hearing about my choices is that it's 100% been from women I previously considered to be totally open-minded. Apparently I only thought they were open minded because I had previously had their approval.

MattsPenguin · February 2012

Also MuSu, I know that directly prior to her judgeship, she was NOT in private practice.

kmmssg · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:0f87636e-5a9f-4e7b-9840-c13cf385f8cc">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]So much of what the women's rights movement has given me - I absolutely take for granted. I have a great career, I've lived on my own supporting myself since college, I bought a house on my own, I've had a pretty great sex life - all of that while being single. The only time I've felt "pressure to get married" has been at weddings when they do the frigging bouquet toss but that's mostly rude old ladies. The "dark side" of the women's rights movement is what I'm discovering now, as I prepare to marry and start a family. I am routinely shocked when my oh-so-liberated "friends" are suprised at my decision to change my name. I don't want to hear again about the damage I'll do to my career if we are blessed with children and I decide to stay home as we are planning. And yes, I'm going to have my father escort me down the aisle at 37 - he is looking forward to it and I wouldn't take it from him for the world. What has been most suprising to me about the judgement I'm hearing about my choices is that it's 100% been from women I previously considered to be totally open-minded. Apparently I only thought they were open minded because I had previously had their approval.
Posted by ceh789[/QUOTE]

That is just so sad!! This is exactly what the women's movement should be about. Being able to choose your path and destiny in the way you wish to choose!

sarabellam · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_womens-rights?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fa885695-38a6-4243-8dd3-8370e3c9e298Post:54757dce-0dec-42d3-a409-8732afc4b301">Re: Women's Rights</a>:
[QUOTE]Do you feel your experience as a woman is different from your mother's generation? Your grandmother's?
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

My experience is far different than my grandmother's. I got my BS in engineering in 1989, and experienced a bit of "Why are you in my class? You should be working on your Mrs. degree" from some professors, mainly in the mechanical engineering department. But my grandmother wasn't allowed to pursue her desired major, archeology. She got her BA in English from Baylor, then went on to get her Masters in English from Columbia. She taught English in college, so she was pretty much confined to an "acceptable" career. All 4 of my grandparents graduated from college, which was pretty unusual for the era (during the Great Depression).

specialk84 · February 2012

MuSu touched on it, but what do you guys think about all the princess-themed stuff?

I have never purchased any of it for any of the little girls in my life. I think it's ridiculous to raise a whole generation to think they need to find the right man or their lives won't be happy.

I say this as someone who adopted a dog named Princess (she was a rescue, and that was her original name). She now lives with my parents, where she wears a pink rhinestone collar.

MattsPenguin · February 2012

Special, I personally don't have a problem with Princess stuff. Hell, I'm running the Disney Princess Half-Marathon on Sunday. I'm a total girly girl and grew up in sequins and pretty costumes performing with my dance team. I don't think that it sends a bad message unless such a message is enforced by parents and a child's surroundings.

musicalsunlight · February 2012

I think I find more to be irritated with the more provocative stuff that stores like Hollister and A&F put on their clothes for teen girls. I worked at Hollister in HS and while I can't conjure up something right now, there were plenty of times that I raised my eyebrows at the stuff we were selling. I don't really care either way if people wear it but I don't think that the one shirt displayed above should get the brunt of criticism and be pulled from shelves if other shirts don't get the same attention.

MattsPenguin · February 2012

That's a good point, Musu. I'd much rather my daughter be running around dressed like a princess than dressed like a prosti-tot.

musicalsunlight · February 2012

Like this:

This to me sends a worse message, that girls needs to be obsessed with being a slut or something.

DeannaCW · February 2012

Maybe not a legal precedent, but certainly a social one: I was able to fly to England on my own to meet FI and his family. Never would have happened if I'd needed a "chaperone" or anything, cause nobody else would be able or willing to make those trips with me! :P In which case, FI and I never would have been able to become a couple.

I would also not be able to go into my chosen career (social work) or apply for the jobs I'm looking at (can't quite do social work yet as don't have a Master's, and not sure when I'll be able to get that).

It also means that I won't face discrimination in jobs for being the sole provider initially. FI won't be allowed to work at first due to visa processing and immigration details, but at least we won't have to defend our situation to people, especially at my work!

musicalsunlight · February 2012

haha omg prosti-tot. Love it.

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