I've deleted this post to the best of my ability

Simply Fated · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:d416967b-1435-45e0-9177-fcb1d7b35450">Re: I've deleted this post to the best of my ability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: I've deleted this post to the best of my ability : That chapter is on heroification. Basically, it says that Helen Keller lived a long, full, and very interesting life, and all anyone ever learns of her is how she learned to communicate as a child. The second edition talks about how the title probably wasn't the best choice, because it's not so much about outright lies as misinformation, oversimplification, and glaring omissions.
Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]
Were any students misinformed about her political views and told that she was a supporter of something other than Socialism?
Was her story simplified, to the point where in reality her political views make her struggles even more complex than we were taught?
Did omitting that she was a socialist change the story of how she learned to communicate with the outside world and the struggles that she faced?

Does knowing that she is a Socialist change anything we learn about her in school, keeping in mind that most students study her before studying the different political parties?

"all anyone ever learns of her is how she learned to communicate as a child"
I learned about Sally Ride being the first woman astronaut in space and the struggles she faced in her endeavors. I don't know her political party. It doesn't change how heroic I think she is.
Same goes for Helen Keller.

Sorry about temporarily hijacking this thread, but that author of your book sounds like he's butthurt about not being idolized by a bunch of schoolchildren himself.

aerinpegadrak · June 2010

The Helen Keller thing probably wasn't the best example (she gets maybe three pages out of nearly four hundred), it was just one of the first ones that came to mind, since it's been a while since I read it. His point is that this process of heroification makes interesting people boring and one-dimensional, which is part of the problem with the way history is taught in schools.

A better example would probably be the "flat earth myth," the idea that most of the world thought that the earth was flat until Christopher Columbus proved him wrong, and that his crew was ready to mutiny because they were afraid of falling off the earth. (I distinctly remember learning this in school.) In actual fact, it was common knowledge in Europe in 1492 that the world was round.

I'm probably not doing the best job of selling it (like I said, it's been a while), but it really is an interesting survey of what's wrong with history textbooks.

bablingbrooke · June 2010

Aerin, I know the book you're talking about, and you're right, it's fascinating. Much of the "history" you learn in grade school/middle school/high school is overly simplified and, in many cases, one-dimensional. Which makes sense: You need to sacrifice some depth for breadth.

Take Henry VIII, for example. We all learn about him in school as this crazy tyrant who kept offing his wives in his quest for a male heir because he didn't think a girl could do it. Well superficially, yes, that's true. However, it was much more complicated than that. Henry's father had come to power through the Wars of the Roses, which was essentially a 30-year-long succession crisis, and he was already his father's second (and last) son, so he wanted to leave a strong line to prove the Tudors (who had only been in power since his father seized the throne) were legitimate. The last time England had had a female ruler (Empress Matilda, whose reign was so brief and disastrous that she's not even considered a legitimate monarch) led to civil war. Henry feared that if he did not produce a strong line to continue the dynasty the Platagenets, who had split themselves between the Yorks and the Lancasters in the Wars of the Roses, would try to seize power and kill him in the process as a usurper. Which would lead to more civil war and the country was broke. So there was a lot riding on boy babies here.

Aerin: I must have gone to a really good school because we were taught that many people were aware that the earth was round, Columbus was just among the first to realize he could profit from it by using it as a shortcut

aerinpegadrak · June 2010

Yeah, mine was pretty standard "lecture straight from the poorly-written textbook" fare until I hit high school, and that was mainly because the teacher decided to cover the second half of the 19th century in about two weeks in order to be able to get to things that we'd never covered before. (Like, say World War II. No joke.)

I think the problem is that primary and secondary history classes cover the same material every year. It would be better if they did the basic overview only a couple of times, then started delving deeper. That way, for instance, instead of just parrotting off "slavery" as the cause of the Civil War, students would have an idea of the complexities and nuances that went into it, and would be interested enough to want to explore further after high school.

bablingbrooke · June 2010

I was fortunate to go to a really good high school where I took AP US History, a single course taught over two years (Junior and Senior). We spent nearly a whole semester on just the civil war, and it was eye-opening. While the reasons behind it were definitely more complex than slavery, I remember not feeling too impressed with the South despite that. If I remember correctly most Southerners, your average Joe down there, was mostly fighting for the right to keep their slaves, thinking that the Northern Federal Gov't had no business telling them what they could or couldn't do in their own states.

jenn.daniel · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:d9067d0d-37a1-4436-9499-9588f82d0700">Re: I've deleted this post to the best of my ability</a>:
[QUOTE]In addition to People's History of the United States, I recommend Lies My Teacher Told Me. It's a fascinating look at what gets left out of our history books. For instance, did you know that Helen Keller was a rabid socialist? It's an awesome book.
Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

I can't believe I've never read that book. I've read a lot of books on my own about the Civil War and WWII, but I know very little about the rest of US history. We never had time to go in depth. I really think the school year should be longer.

Anyway, I'm glad this has turned into an intelligent conversation. I'd wanted to defend OP originally because it makes me so mad that people start yelling racism or RASIST (quoting futuremrstsy, not a typo on my part). Yes, the South did plenty of bad stuff, as have a lot of groups. I'm one of those people just sees the Confederate flag as a symbolism of ancestors who fought for the rights they believed in.

I really appreciate goheels comment that it was just a few bigoted people ruined it for the rest of us. I think you can respect history and ancestors without holding their beliefs. ie I respect Thomas Jefferson for starting UVA and that fact that he also believed in states' rights / limitions on the reach of the federal government. On the other hand he's not exactly the perfect man they make him out to be in history books - Sally Hemmings comes to mind, although I think they only proved it was him or his brother. I think they only were able to look at mitochondrial DNA.

tldh · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:4c14cf56-f202-4b81-9d22-dacd54d239a2">Re: I've deleted this post to the best of my ability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: I've deleted this post to the best of my ability : Anyway, I'm glad this has turned into an intelligent conversation.

I couldn't agree with this statement more. I told OP that one of the most basic promises of a US citizen is that while I may oppose your beliefs and words to the last breath, I will defend your right to hold them and say them. I know my posts were long, but I hope I kept them civil and on point. I did try to do so.

History is so complex that it's almost impossible to discuss it in a heated environment - nobody will concede anything, like the booming northern textile manufactuers were dependent on cheap southern cotton. So much has to be put in a context that can sometimes span hundreds of years.

Brooke- thank you for mentioning Empress Mathilda. Despite everything that I have going on, I have been reading everything I can get my hands on about her son Henry II and his wife Eleanor of Aquitane. Their marriage and her life, especially at that time, were amazing.

bablingbrooke · June 2010

If you're interested in Mathilda, Henry II or any other medieval British monarch, I really recommend anything written by Allison Weir. She's a brilliant medieval British historian whose books are not only full of information, it's written in a very compelling way. She's got at least 10 books out and I believe either just published or is about to publish one on Eleanor of Aquitane. I've mostly read her books on the Tudors but her books on the Wars of the Roses/Richard III are really fascinating.

dawnmarie0627 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:0571465f-6de9-4220-9f74-c147fe970760">Re: I've deleted this post to the best of my ability</a>:
[QUOTE]If you're interested in Mathilda, Henry II or any other medieval British monarch, I really recommend anything written by Allison Weir. She's a brilliant medieval British historian whose books are not only full of information, it's written in a very compelling way. She's got at least 10 books out and I believe either just published or is about to publish one on Eleanor of Aquitane. I've mostly read her books on the Tudors but her books on the Wars of the Roses/Richard III are really fascinating.
Posted by bablingbrooke[/QUOTE]

Her work is amazing. I'm a history major and a few years ago I took a class on Modern Britain. Although we did not read any of her works (they didn't apply to the course), my professor spoke of her works often. "The Lady Elizabeth" is my favorite one.

tldh · June 2010

Thanks ladies.

bablingbrooke · June 2010

Here's the new one she's about to publish:

http://www.amazon.com/Captive-Queen-Novel-Eleanor-Aquitaine/dp/0345511875/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276461928&sr=1-5

And here's another one that's about 10 years old also by Alison Weir:

http://www.amazon.com/Eleanor-Aquitaine-Ballantine-Readers-Circle/dp/0345434870/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276461857&sr=8-9

I haven't read either yet but if they're anything like her other books they'll be good reads. ETA: Although now that I look at it, it looks like a historical fiction book, which isn't generally the genre she writes in. Usually it's straight up history.

sevatipari · June 2010

Ya'll do know the Confederate flag has nothing to do with slavery right? Hell Abraham Lincoln had slaves. The main reason we had the Civil War was cause the South wanted to split from the Union and the North didn't want them to. It was about State Rights and the North/ones in power ignoring them.

"For the true record, the War of Northern Aggression was over STATES RIGHTS, Constitution, freedom, independence - and AGAINST THE MARXIST/COMMUNIST NEW GOVERNMENT LINCOLN HAD CREATED, - NOT slavery. The slavery story was USED AS A LAST MINUTE PLOY even back then, to get the soldiers to fight and obey the Union Federal government. The North Union people were turning against Lincoln and his war, so the slavery ploy was used to 'sound good' and the effort by the Marxist Republican Party to make the war more 'personal' to the Northerners, trying to get them to fight more. The government has always used the military men as pawns in their take-over plan ! Lincoln also was very concerned because the North had been losing the war all along, in spite of the North having all the best of weapons and clothing and food supplies. Yet in spite of all the benefits the North had over the South, they kept losing; so Lincoln sent for the professional Foreign mercenaries from Germany to "totally destroy the south ; to burn them to the ground." Florida, the state that fought the hardest to NOT become a state of the Union Federal government, did not even HAVE slavery, and in fact, by 1890, the blacks just about ran the entire state ! But the Northern Union armies were told that the war was to 'free the slaves'. AND that is what we are told also to believe all down through "history" ! Slaves and slavery had nothing to do with any of it !"

this qoute is taken from: http://home1.gte.net/carriet/TruthCivilWar.html

and to find out more all you have to do is google/yahoo search "real truth of the civil war"

as for using the Confederate flag maybe just use the stars and bars instead of the full flag....that way if you have any Yanks at the wedding they won't start anything.

Mioh1 · June 2010

My grandfather is German and fought in WWII....he fought with England.

He did not agree with what was going on in his country even though it is his homeland/heritage. He left Germany as a 16 year old boy. He has a german flag at his house but not a NAZI flag. He fought against that flag!! Because it represents that he had no right to be able to voice out his opinions, he was beaten when he defended a young jewish boy at school. If he didn't he would've been shot or sent to a "labor camp" If we walked to a german wedding with a nazi flag it would be a slap to my grandfathers face.

I just don't get why you need to use the flag, why not sweet tea? Why not something with lace? umbrellas? There's so many beautiful things that southern tradition has to offer.......

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