In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:a525e1a2-240a-4d9f-915b-84666ce7f64f">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I think both would be better. Why won't he do couples counseling? Posted by edielaura[/QUOTE]
<div>He won't do it because I'm a health psychologist and he feels like I'd gang up on him with the therapist, or trick him. Clinical counselling isn't even that related to what I do, I'm more on the medial part of psych and work in a hopital helping people choose courses of treatment.</div>
She said WHAT?!?!??! Oh Good Lord, WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?????
Edit: Andrea, I just keep feeling worse and worse for you. Please know you deserve SO much better than this. Follow some of the awesome advice given on here, keep your chin up, and stand firm in whatever decision you make.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:a38d4296-9fa1-4cd8-a04c-5a24028d82ac">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : She's full of quotes like that. When fh had to leave lunch at her house early to come help me move new furniture into my house,<strong> she said "of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts".</strong> NO JOKE, she said this in front of fh, fbil, ffil, and MY family (mom and dad). I plan on talking to fh when he gets home, perhaps I'll even point him in the direction of this thread. I hope we can fix this. Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
This is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on the internet. If your FI does not understand that there's a MAJOR problem here, he's in serious need of counseling.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:52b28e53-f71a-47ae-8333-224134b63cb8">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]I think y'all should do couples counseling but if not then individual counseling for both parties would be imperative. I would put the wedding plans on the back burner until both you and him have come to an agreement, because he HAS to get on your side in order for the two of you have a good marriage. Marriage is hard enough without adding extra problems like his inability to say no his family and stand by you. You deserve someone who will stand by you and say, <strong>"You're my wife and we're in this together."</strong> Posted by mari0225[/QUOTE]
<div>That's exactly what I want. I want someone in my corner, who will protect me against them and others, especially against things I don't deserve.</div><div> </div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:d82ba6fc-0b5a-4118-be50-1e11983cee3f">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : <strong>He won't do it because I'm a health psychologist and he feels like I'd gang up on him with the therapist, or trick him.</strong> Clinical counselling isn't even that related to what I do, I'm more on the medial part of psych and work in a hopital helping people choose courses of treatment. Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
So he automatically assumes that you will use couples counseling to mistreat him? Does he trust you at all?
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:a38d4296-9fa1-4cd8-a04c-5a24028d82ac">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE] "of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts". Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
OMFingG I hate this woman even more now than I did before....
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:95ee97ec-33d5-4a68-ac0b-2d6591fad42e">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I agree, though I feel like my bubble is majorly popped at the moment. Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
This happened to me. I kept making excuses for my ex, over and over. He was emotionally abusive, but in a slightly different way, although he would often "punish" me for bringing up things I didn't like by shutting me out, the same way your FI is doing to you. He did go to couples counseling with me once. He refused to talk the entire time we were there. And when we left said that the counselor was on my side because he had agreed with something I'd said.
I refused to recognize how bad the situation was until he tried to hit me in the middle of an argument. We all reach our point of realizing "I can't live in this situation anymore." That was when I finally broke off the engagement. And looking back, I can't believe how much I ignored about the way he treated me.
This probably doesn't sound like a success story to you right now since we didn't end up together, but I def consider it a success story for me. I am 80 million times happier than I ever would have been putting up with that for the rest of my life. Esp because, unless addressed, things don't get better, they just get worse.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:a38d4296-9fa1-4cd8-a04c-5a24028d82ac">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : She's full of quotes like that. When fh had to leave lunch at her house early to come help me move new furniture into my house, she said "<strong>of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts".</strong> NO JOKE, she said this in front of fh, fbil, ffil, and MY family (mom and dad). I plan on talking to fh when he gets home, perhaps I'll even point him in the direction of this thread. I hope we can fix this. Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
OMGWTFBBQ????
WTH says this??? What is wrong with this woman. If she thinks like this, he was raised in a family that thinks like this. This is terible.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:49401668-f1f4-4108-81ce-809f97d56d8a">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : That's exactly what I want. I want someone in my corner, who will protect me against them and others, especially against things I don't deserve. Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
That's what you need. I will honestly say that if my FI hadn't gotten in my corner and said, "No you can't treat her that way" we would not be getting married in a few months. You deserve so much better than what you are currently getting.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:31e4070c-4520-44cf-86a8-96dab6c159bb">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : What the emmer effing eff? That's....uh....yeah. No words. Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE] Yea. That's about where I am.
OP, this is not okay for you to keep taking the backseat at events that are half yours. <div>I don't know what other advice to offer you. </div><div> </div><div>*hugs*</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:79c54c3e-dfc1-4b55-a725-9a840bc15a4d">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]Oh my word Andrea, I'm so sorry for everything you're going through. I do agree with PPs about seeking counseling with FI. Communication is SO impoartant in any relationship, you two will have a pretty tough marriage otherwise. And FI needs to put you as his wife first. *hugs* And IMNSHO, your FMIL is a twatwaffle for saying wives are temporary. Um no... "until death do us part" is I believe the phrase I'm thinking of. Posted by josephwedding[/QUOTE]
<div>Thanks for the virtual hug, joshephwedding, it brought a real smile to my face :)</div><div> </div><div>I think communication is the most important thing in any relationship, and especially marriage. His family doesn't really communicate though, so I think he never really learned how to say his piece (and he's actually scared of them, I think). </div><div> </div><div>When she said the "wives are temporary" bit, even then I didn't bite back. I simply said "I understand the importance of brothers and family, and if you think it'll help and fbil is open to it, I will try to talk to him again because this isn't a good situation for anyone".</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:5ee7e675-ed94-4135-a275-75a8f7325dfb">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]If they are good at manipulating him, that will turn into him manipulating you. I just got out of that type of relationship. And it took me a good 6 months and 10ish attempts to break up with him. He was always manipulating me into thinking that something bad would happen if I broke up with him. (He'd alluded to killing himself. He hasn't, FYI). I always felt so bad because I do care about him, but at the end of the day, I needed to do what was best for me. And that relationship was not what was best for me. Posted by crfb87[/QUOTE]
<div>Your ex sounds like my ex... except he did try to kill himself right after beating me up in the middle of high school. The cops ended that relationship for us, but it still took a year to get rid of him. Then I met fh, who was awesome and really helped me get over that relationship. Seems like slowly, the psychological manipulation is creeping back in here, too....</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:d53af347-1cbb-4f7a-b9ff-45c2e47328d6">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]The fact that he refuses counseling is an enormous red flag to me. At the end of the day, your situation isn't going to change unless your FI is willing to change it . It doesn't sound like he is. You need to give serious thought to whether you can live the rest of your life with the way things are now (hint: the answer should be no), and then tell him if he refuses counseling you'll end things. Then, if he refuses counseling, actually end things . The way things are right now is not okay , and it's not going to get better by magic or wishful thinking or you kidnapping him and moving to a deserted island. The only way things will get better is if your FI takes the necessary steps to make them better. Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]
<div>Everything you said is true, and that's the hard part. I'll work on this tonight when he gets home and hopefully I'll have something more positive to report at the end of all this </div>
MIL one time said to H; after he'd agreed with me on something ridiculously small and stupid "oh so you're always going to side with your wife now" and, God love that man, he said "uhh, yeah. She's my wife". I hope you'll have that - with him or with a better man a few years down the road.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:5139f2c2-0ff7-40b4-aa4b-4d78506a7030">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : There's more to it than that. You said it yourself. You are finding yourself turning in to them. Taking on a "screw you" attituded towards them. That's not you. You're losing yourself in this. They're making you less than what you are. It doesn't matter if everything else in your relationship is perfect, if you lose yourself, you have nothing. Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]
<div>I definitely feel like I'm THISCLOSE to having nothing, and I really don't like this version of myself. </div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:827cef06-1953-4edf-bc06-81f61dc49f3f">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I know it's scary, when I took my ring off that was the hardest thing i've ever done. But I meant it when I told him, "I wouldn't live the next 50+ years fighting with both HIM and his family." Posted by mari0225[/QUOTE]
<div>I'm hoping I'll have your strength tonight, this is probably going to be one of our most difficult discussions as of yet.</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:1678812f-8ce4-4112-bcff-f6c9606c2e0c">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : Your ex sounds like my ex... except he did try to kill himself right after beating me up in the middle of high school. The cops ended that relationship for us, but it still took a year to get rid of him. <strong>Then I met fh, who was awesome and really helped me get over that relationship. Seems like slowly, the psychological manipulation is creeping back in here, too.... </strong>Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
You need individual counseling to figure out why you seek out guys like this. Also, sometimes, women who have been overtly abused (like by the guy who beat you up) have a harder time drawing the line at emotional abuse/manipulation, because there's always going to be a part of your brain thinking "at least he's not hitting me." A good counselor can help you work through this.
I just don't have any more to tell you. I'm stupified by this woman.
I sincerely hope that things work out, but I honestly don't see him changing. If he's afraid of his family he can be manipulated to thinking you're wrong for him and he won't fight for you. I'm sorry. I know all of this is hard to hear.
Mari's situation ended well, but I see it differently than yours. Hers was ultimately about money. Yours is ultimately about control. Your FI's family control over him and as a result his control over you. It's a lot harder to overcome control than financial issues.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:adef11f0-e217-475d-9ab3-c71fbd9bc9f4">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : Sweetie, I really say this because I do care - you seriously need counseling. Badly. Do you see a pattern in your relationships? You need to work on YOU before you'll ever be happy in a relationship. Only after you are happy with yourself will you stop seeking destructive and abusive relationships. Don't walk to counseling - RUN. NOW. Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I cannot tell you how much therapy helped me, and my ex wasn't nearly as bad as yours sounds. I'll be sending you good vibes this evening and I hope talking to your FI goes well.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:a38d4296-9fa1-4cd8-a04c-5a24028d82ac">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : She's full of quotes like that. When fh had to leave lunch at her house early to come help me move new furniture into my house, <strong>she said "of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts". </strong>NO JOKE, she said this in front of fh, fbil, ffil, and MY family (mom and dad). I plan on talking to fh when he gets home, perhaps I'll even point him in the direction of this thread. I hope we can fix this. Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
I *almost* heaved when I read that. If I didn't have the stomach bug going around, now I do.
That's disgusting, classless, and holy eff this woman has issues.
Just remember two things that have become priceless to me:
1) <strong>Children are what they live.</strong> Take a good look at his parents. If you're afraid he'll turn into them, think long and hard about your life with him. Real life example: my mom, as much as I love her, has emotional ups and downs that most roller coasters don't have. FI was concerned after being around her for awhile, and he flat out said, "I can't handle her like this, I couldn't handle you like this, please make sure you don't go down this road". I'm in counseling, though for other reasons than just my mom. My mom refuses, thinking she's just fine and that therapy makes a person weak, and everyone else has issues. FI's in counseling, and we both go together as well. It's helped tremendously, but we were ready for the therapy.
2)<strong> When you marry, you marry three people. The person they are, the person you want them to be, and the person they'll become as a result of marrying you. </strong> Don't just look at him this way. If you're already turning into someone you don't like because of how you feel you have to be around his family, think about your life like that for the next 50+ years. If it's ugly, think twice.
I would also like to point out that your FILs are concerned about the wedding looking "cheap" to their friends and family, yet FMIL uses words like c*nt. Klassy,
I wonder what her friends and family would think if they learned that about her.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:cbc1b3be-52ba-47e5-9e3f-e0f42389449e">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]Andra, something very serious to think about - what happens if his family decides they don't like you, and decide that it would be best that he's not married to you anymore? Would he leave you, or stand up to them? The whole "wives are temporary" phrase bothers me immensely, and it concerns me, for you, that eventually his family will decide to work their magic on him about his marriage. Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE]
<div>wow, i never considered that they could manipulate him into ending our marriage, but now I can see that happening. </div><div> </div><div>This post started off as something pretty different, but I think it's been one of the most eye-opening "conversations" of my life... and it's with ladies I've never even met before in "real life".</div><div> </div><div>Thank you all for that. It's hard listening, but I know that you're all right. </div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:9108cde1-1c26-4017-b316-45bd67fc2e01">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]Andra, another thing. If you want to have children, you have got to consider the effect his family will have on them. <strong>FI's mother is crazy (although not as crazy as your FI's mother), and FI and I are already on the same page for that. </strong> His mother likes to try to be manipulative and the whole bit too, and she has some very negative and judgmental viewpoints. I've already explained, and FI agrees, that if she wants to act that way around our children, she won't get to see them. I won't have my children behaving the way she does and thinking her way of thinking is okay. Because it's not. Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE] Same goes here. <div>FMIL announced one time at dinner (in a public restaurant no less) That I poisoned her food and that because I was laughing I did it. I was laughing because she's a crazy pants. But that's beside the point.
FI refused to talk to his mother until she apologized (which was half-assed) but she's never made a scene like that again. </div><div>PLEASE don't hang on because you don't want to have "nothing" because you never know what may happen and in all reality it sounds like you can't even look forward to these big events in your life because your ILs have pretty much taken the reign on your parents dime. That's not ok. </div><div>Also, you might want to tell your vendors (if you continue on) that the only upgrades that will be made will be made by you personally. Not FI, FMIL or FFIL. You. I think you owe that at least to your parents. </div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:5412895c-a54e-4637-83ec-cfecb173dd4e">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]I would also like to point out that your FILs are concerned about the wedding looking "cheap" to their friends and family, yet FMIL uses words like c*nt. Klassy, I wonder what her friends and family would think if they learned that about her. Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]
If I were Andra, I'd start a Twitter feed posting all the super-klassy things her FMIL says. And I'd make sure FMIL's full legal name was associated with it.
(Of course, I can be kind of an @$$, so maybe this isn't the most productive solution, but it'd certainly make me laugh.)
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:2722654e-abf7-48fb-8db0-739c6cb57aa2">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : Even if he is that doesn't mean that this Momma's Boy part of him is going to magically disappear, even if you can find the old him. They're both parts of him and obviously family is important to him, so if you two don't get on the same page before you're married then you're going to spend the rest of your life battling for the "old" him. Part of the problem is that by not walking away you're also validating his behavior. He sees you putting up with him treating you like this and so he figures that it must not be THAT big a deal because you swallow it. Maybe taking a step away will make him realize that it IS that big a deal and it DOES need to change. Even if it does, <strong>what's worse... walking away or spending the rest of your life feeling like the person you love values several other people above you?</strong> Posted by LoveMuffins[/QUOTE]<div> </div><div>I keep thinking about that sentance, as quite a few people have told me to ask myself that question before. </div><div> </div><div>I think part of me sees myself as damaged goods, and I had a couple serious relationships and if this one doesn't work out, I feel like I'm hopeless. Maybe I feel like this is my last chance, I think.</div><div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:8b97a283-2a76-420e-9e1a-27806511e633">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I definitely feel like I'm THISCLOSE to having nothing, and I really don't like this version of myself. Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
Oh Gosh....::hugs::
Just know that even though we're internet strangers to you we do want what's best for you.
Get a sig pic or avatar and keep us posted. I want to be able to remember you.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_intimate-engagement-party-not-inviting-fbils-gf-that-we-dont-really-know?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:e9ec9368-7f78-4bb1-9ab0-17525d9a2605Post:21ddbf22-7d8d-46d4-a578-f0c3b3495acd">Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?</a>: [QUOTE]The walking away part for me (I realize we weren't engaged or married, but it was still hard to do) was hard. But at the same time so relieving. I finally felt a weight lifted off my shoulders. Posted by crfb87[/QUOTE]
<div>It was like that with my ex, too. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the life-after-him part, if I'd have to walk away.</div><div> </div><div>I really appreciate you telling me all of this, it really does help.</div>
The fact that you know you need to change things makes me think you've known things were not right for awhile. If you're this accepting of the fact that your FI's behavior is flat out wrong and you feel your personality changing around your FILs, then you know something's up. You're already halfway there if you're ready to make a change, and you've got the strength to do it.
Thinking good thoughts for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know?
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I think both would be better. Why won't he do couples counseling?
Posted by edielaura[/QUOTE]
<div>He won't do it because I'm a health psychologist and he feels like I'd gang up on him with the therapist, or trick him. Clinical counselling isn't even that related to what I do, I'm more on the medial part of psych and work in a hopital helping people choose courses of treatment.</div>
Edit: Andrea, I just keep feeling worse and worse for you. Please know you deserve SO much better than this. Follow some of the awesome advice given on here, keep your chin up, and stand firm in whatever decision you make.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : She's full of quotes like that. When fh had to leave lunch at her house early to come help me move new furniture into my house,<strong> she said "of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts".</strong> NO JOKE, she said this in front of fh, fbil, ffil, and MY family (mom and dad). I plan on talking to fh when he gets home, perhaps I'll even point him in the direction of this thread. I hope we can fix this.
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
This is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on the internet. If your FI does not understand that there's a MAJOR problem here, he's in serious need of counseling.
[QUOTE]I think y'all should do couples counseling but if not then individual counseling for both parties would be imperative. I would put the wedding plans on the back burner until both you and him have come to an agreement, because he HAS to get on your side in order for the two of you have a good marriage. Marriage is hard enough without adding extra problems like his inability to say no his family and stand by you. You deserve someone who will stand by you and say, <strong>"You're my wife and we're in this together."</strong>
Posted by mari0225[/QUOTE]
<div>That's exactly what I want. I want someone in my corner, who will protect me against them and others, especially against things I don't deserve.</div><div>
</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : <strong>He won't do it because I'm a health psychologist and he feels like I'd gang up on him with the therapist, or trick him.</strong> Clinical counselling isn't even that related to what I do, I'm more on the medial part of psych and work in a hopital helping people choose courses of treatment.
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
So he automatically assumes that you will use couples counseling to mistreat him? Does he trust you at all?
[QUOTE] "of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts".
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
OMFingG I hate this woman even more now than I did before....
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I agree, though I feel like my bubble is majorly popped at the moment.
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
This happened to me. I kept making excuses for my ex, over and over. He was emotionally abusive, but in a slightly different way, although he would often "punish" me for bringing up things I didn't like by shutting me out, the same way your FI is doing to you. He did go to couples counseling with me once. He refused to talk the entire time we were there. And when we left said that the counselor was on my side because he had agreed with something I'd said.
I refused to recognize how bad the situation was until he tried to hit me in the middle of an argument. We all reach our point of realizing "I can't live in this situation anymore." That was when I finally broke off the engagement. And looking back, I can't believe how much I ignored about the way he treated me.
This probably doesn't sound like a success story to you right now since we didn't end up together, but I def consider it a success story for me. I am 80 million times happier than I ever would have been putting up with that for the rest of my life. Esp because, unless addressed, things don't get better, they just get worse.
Married Bio
Day Zero / Blog
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : She's full of quotes like that. When fh had to leave lunch at her house early to come help me move new furniture into my house, she said "<strong>of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts".</strong> NO JOKE, she said this in front of fh, fbil, ffil, and MY family (mom and dad). I plan on talking to fh when he gets home, perhaps I'll even point him in the direction of this thread. I hope we can fix this.
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
OMGWTFBBQ????
WTH says this??? What is wrong with this woman. If she thinks like this, he was raised in a family that thinks like this. This is terible.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : That's exactly what I want. I want someone in my corner, who will protect me against them and others, especially against things I don't deserve.
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
That's what you need. I will honestly say that if my FI hadn't gotten in my corner and said, "No you can't treat her that way" we would not be getting married in a few months. You deserve so much better than what you are currently getting.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : What the emmer effing eff? That's....uh....yeah. No words.
Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE]
Yea. That's about where I am.
OP, this is not okay for you to keep taking the backseat at events that are half yours. <div>I don't know what other advice to offer you. </div><div>
</div><div>*hugs*</div>
[QUOTE]Oh my word Andrea, I'm so sorry for everything you're going through. I do agree with PPs about seeking counseling with FI. Communication is SO impoartant in any relationship, you two will have a pretty tough marriage otherwise. And FI needs to put you as his wife first. *hugs* And IMNSHO, your FMIL is a twatwaffle for saying wives are temporary. Um no... "until death do us part" is I believe the phrase I'm thinking of.
Posted by josephwedding[/QUOTE]
<div>Thanks for the virtual hug, joshephwedding, it brought a real smile to my face :)</div><div>
</div><div>I think communication is the most important thing in any relationship, and especially marriage. His family doesn't really communicate though, so I think he never really learned how to say his piece (and he's actually scared of them, I think). </div><div>
</div><div>When she said the "wives are temporary" bit, even then I didn't bite back. I simply said "I understand the importance of brothers and family, and if you think it'll help and fbil is open to it, I will try to talk to him again because this isn't a good situation for anyone".</div>
[QUOTE]If they are good at manipulating him, that will turn into him manipulating you. I just got out of that type of relationship. And it took me a good 6 months and 10ish attempts to break up with him. He was always manipulating me into thinking that something bad would happen if I broke up with him. (He'd alluded to killing himself. He hasn't, FYI). I always felt so bad because I do care about him, but at the end of the day, I needed to do what was best for me. And that relationship was not what was best for me.
Posted by crfb87[/QUOTE]
<div>Your ex sounds like my ex... except he did try to kill himself right after beating me up in the middle of high school. The cops ended that relationship for us, but it still took a year to get rid of him. Then I met fh, who was awesome and really helped me get over that relationship. Seems like slowly, the psychological manipulation is creeping back in here, too....</div>
Married Bio
Day Zero / Blog
[QUOTE]The fact that he refuses counseling is an enormous red flag to me. At the end of the day, your situation isn't going to change unless your FI is willing to change it . It doesn't sound like he is. You need to give serious thought to whether you can live the rest of your life with the way things are now (hint: the answer should be no), and then tell him if he refuses counseling you'll end things. Then, if he refuses counseling, actually end things . The way things are right now is not okay , and it's not going to get better by magic or wishful thinking or you kidnapping him and moving to a deserted island. The only way things will get better is if your FI takes the necessary steps to make them better.
Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]
<div>Everything you said is true, and that's the hard part. I'll work on this tonight when he gets home and hopefully I'll have something more positive to report at the end of all this </div>
MIL one time said to H; after he'd agreed with me on something ridiculously small and stupid "oh so you're always going to side with your wife now" and, God love that man, he said "uhh, yeah. She's my wife". I hope you'll have that - with him or with a better man a few years down the road.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : There's more to it than that. You said it yourself. You are finding yourself turning in to them. Taking on a "screw you" attituded towards them. That's not you. You're losing yourself in this. They're making you less than what you are. It doesn't matter if everything else in your relationship is perfect, if you lose yourself, you have nothing.
Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]
<div>I definitely feel like I'm THISCLOSE to having nothing, and I really don't like this version of myself. </div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I know it's scary, when I took my ring off that was the hardest thing i've ever done. But I meant it when I told him, "I wouldn't live the next 50+ years fighting with both HIM and his family."
Posted by mari0225[/QUOTE]
<div>I'm hoping I'll have your strength tonight, this is probably going to be one of our most difficult discussions as of yet.</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : Your ex sounds like my ex... except he did try to kill himself right after beating me up in the middle of high school. The cops ended that relationship for us, but it still took a year to get rid of him. <strong>Then I met fh, who was awesome and really helped me get over that relationship. Seems like slowly, the psychological manipulation is creeping back in here, too....
</strong>Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
You need individual counseling to figure out why you seek out guys like this. Also, sometimes, women who have been overtly abused (like by the guy who beat you up) have a harder time drawing the line at emotional abuse/manipulation, because there's always going to be a part of your brain thinking "at least he's not hitting me." A good counselor can help you work through this.
I sincerely hope that things work out, but I honestly don't see him changing. If he's afraid of his family he can be manipulated to thinking you're wrong for him and he won't fight for you. I'm sorry. I know all of this is hard to hear.
Mari's situation ended well, but I see it differently than yours. Hers was ultimately about money. Yours is ultimately about control. Your FI's family control over him and as a result his control over you. It's a lot harder to overcome control than financial issues.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : Sweetie, I really say this because I do care - you seriously need counseling. Badly. Do you see a pattern in your relationships? You need to work on YOU before you'll ever be happy in a relationship. Only after you are happy with yourself will you stop seeking destructive and abusive relationships. Don't walk to counseling - RUN. NOW.
Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I cannot tell you how much therapy helped me, and my ex wasn't nearly as bad as yours sounds.
I'll be sending you good vibes this evening and I hope talking to your FI goes well.
Married Bio
Day Zero / Blog
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : She's full of quotes like that. When fh had to leave lunch at her house early to come help me move new furniture into my house, <strong>she said "of course you had to leave, your girfrients c*nt tastes sweeters than your mother's breasts". </strong>NO JOKE, she said this in front of fh, fbil, ffil, and MY family (mom and dad). I plan on talking to fh when he gets home, perhaps I'll even point him in the direction of this thread. I hope we can fix this.
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
I *almost* heaved when I read that. If I didn't have the stomach bug going around, now I do.
That's disgusting, classless, and holy eff this woman has issues.
Just remember two things that have become priceless to me:
1) <strong>Children are what they live.</strong> Take a good look at his parents. If you're afraid he'll turn into them, think long and hard about your life with him. Real life example: my mom, as much as I love her, has emotional ups and downs that most roller coasters don't have. FI was concerned after being around her for awhile, and he flat out said, "I can't handle her like this, I couldn't handle you like this, please make sure you don't go down this road". I'm in counseling, though for other reasons than just my mom. My mom refuses, thinking she's just fine and that therapy makes a person weak, and everyone else has issues. FI's in counseling, and we both go together as well. It's helped tremendously, but we were ready for the therapy.
2)<strong> When you marry, you marry three people. The person they are, the person you want them to be, and the person they'll become as a result of marrying you. </strong> Don't just look at him this way. If you're already turning into someone you don't like because of how you feel you have to be around his family, think about your life like that for the next 50+ years. If it's ugly, think twice.
I wonder what her friends and family would think if they learned that about her.
[QUOTE]Andra, something very serious to think about - what happens if his family decides they don't like you, and decide that it would be best that he's not married to you anymore? Would he leave you, or stand up to them? The whole "wives are temporary" phrase bothers me immensely, and it concerns me, for you, that eventually his family will decide to work their magic on him about his marriage.
Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE]
<div>wow, i never considered that they could manipulate him into ending our marriage, but now I can see that happening. </div><div>
</div><div>This post started off as something pretty different, but I think it's been one of the most eye-opening "conversations" of my life... and it's with ladies I've never even met before in "real life".</div><div>
</div><div>Thank you all for that. It's hard listening, but I know that you're all right. </div>
[QUOTE]Andra, another thing. If you want to have children, you have got to consider the effect his family will have on them. <strong>FI's mother is crazy (although not as crazy as your FI's mother), and FI and I are already on the same page for that. </strong> His mother likes to try to be manipulative and the whole bit too, and she has some very negative and judgmental viewpoints. I've already explained, and FI agrees, that if she wants to act that way around our children, she won't get to see them. I won't have my children behaving the way she does and thinking her way of thinking is okay. Because it's not.
Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE]
Same goes here. <div>FMIL announced one time at dinner (in a public restaurant no less) That I poisoned her food and that because I was laughing I did it. I was laughing because she's a crazy pants. But that's beside the point.
FI refused to talk to his mother until she apologized (which was half-assed) but she's never made a scene like that again. </div><div>PLEASE don't hang on because you don't want to have "nothing" because you never know what may happen and in all reality it sounds like you can't even look forward to these big events in your life because your ILs have pretty much taken the reign on your parents dime. That's not ok. </div><div>Also, you might want to tell your vendors (if you continue on) that the only upgrades that will be made will be made by you personally. Not FI, FMIL or FFIL. You. I think you owe that at least to your parents. </div>
[QUOTE]I would also like to point out that your FILs are concerned about the wedding looking "cheap" to their friends and family, yet FMIL uses words like c*nt. Klassy, I wonder what her friends and family would think if they learned that about her.
Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]
If I were Andra, I'd start a Twitter feed posting all the super-klassy things her FMIL says. And I'd make sure FMIL's full legal name was associated with it.
(Of course, I can be kind of an @$$, so maybe this isn't the most productive solution, but it'd certainly make me laugh.)
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : Even if he is that doesn't mean that this Momma's Boy part of him is going to magically disappear, even if you can find the old him. They're both parts of him and obviously family is important to him, so if you two don't get on the same page before you're married then you're going to spend the rest of your life battling for the "old" him. Part of the problem is that by not walking away you're also validating his behavior. He sees you putting up with him treating you like this and so he figures that it must not be THAT big a deal because you swallow it. Maybe taking a step away will make him realize that it IS that big a deal and it DOES need to change. Even if it does, <strong>what's worse... walking away or spending the rest of your life feeling like the person you love values several other people above you?</strong>
Posted by LoveMuffins[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I keep thinking about that sentance, as quite a few people have told me to ask myself that question before. </div><div>
</div><div>I think part of me sees myself as damaged goods, and I had a couple serious relationships and if this one doesn't work out, I feel like I'm hopeless. Maybe I feel like this is my last chance, I think.</div><div>
</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intimate engagement party- not inviting fbil's gf that we don't really know? : I definitely feel like I'm THISCLOSE to having nothing, and I really don't like this version of myself.
Posted by andra loves andre[/QUOTE]
Oh Gosh....::hugs::
Just know that even though we're internet strangers to you we do want what's best for you.
Get a sig pic or avatar and keep us posted. I want to be able to remember you.
[QUOTE]The walking away part for me (I realize we weren't engaged or married, but it was still hard to do) was hard. But at the same time so relieving. I finally felt a weight lifted off my shoulders.
Posted by crfb87[/QUOTE]
<div>It was like that with my ex, too. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the life-after-him part, if I'd have to walk away.</div><div>
</div><div>I really appreciate you telling me all of this, it really does help.</div>
The fact that you know you need to change things makes me think you've known things were not right for awhile. If you're this accepting of the fact that your FI's behavior is flat out wrong and you feel your personality changing around your FILs, then you know something's up. You're already halfway there if you're ready to make a change, and you've got the strength to do it.
Thinking good thoughts for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!