Well, this is interesting.

crfische · March 2010

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html?on.cnn=1

This is the main idea:

Evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa at the the London School of Economics and Political Science correlated data on these behaviors with IQ from a large national U.S. sample and found that, on average, people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs. This applied also to sexual exclusivity in men, but not in women.

kikibaby · March 2010

My friend posted this on FB this weekend. It is indeed interesting.

temerityjane · March 2010

Whether or not it IS true, I know liberals and atheists would certainly like to [continue to] believe that it is, regardless of science.

kikibaby · March 2010

Well, wouldn't Catholics and conservatives like to hear the same thing?

polichik · March 2010

That's really, really interesting. I haven't gone to the article yet, but I wonder how big their population size was that they surveyed...

laurenclaire1386 · March 2010

The atheists and liberals I know don't need another reason to be smug

sarah0725 · March 2010

Interesting. Also interesting that all of these traits are considered to be against what makes sense for evolution.

Anarchist/atheist, myself. I must not want to advance the species at all.

bpage3 · March 2010

KUI Warning:

I know many people that have gone through higher science degrees, and they teach it in a way that can cause people who do not have strong faith to become atheist. Others come through with stronger conviction. The ability to learn, and the ability to think for yourself are separate issues (for both conservative and liberals). Btw I am a liberal and a christian (but no longer catholic).

AmoroAgain · March 2010

I don't really know how anyone can be an anarchist, to be honest. Why would you want that?

But, if you follow Rousseau's methodology, people form governing body's no matter what because they dislike chaos.

crfische · March 2010

Just for the record, so we don't get it confused, I'd just like to point out the the non liberals in this thread have been the first to throw insults. Well done.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · March 2010

Yeah, my response was going to be like TJ's, but in a joking way. :-/ Because I am liberal. And agnostic.

There are statistics for how a person is likely to vote based on levels of education (less than high school, high school, AA, BA, master's, PhD, etc). Pretty interesting. But I take it as that - just something that's interesting, not gospel. (Pun intended.)

AmoroAgain · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:c3fd97ae-25bf-40a4-9770-bfc5f44572a5">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]Just for the record, so we don't get it confused, I'd just like to point out the the non liberals in this thread have been the first to throw insults. Well done.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

Mmmhm.

The smartest person I know is an atheist and total liberal. Sometimes, I just can't handle talking to him because it's SO above me. lol

sarah0725 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:4d1dd166-b225-4ef9-a85e-e71f2c61d4fa">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't really know how anyone can be an anarchist, to be honest. Why would you want that? But, if you follow Rousseau's methodology, people form governing body's no matter what because they dislike chaos.
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]

I personally think there's a lot more to being an anarchist than just wanting to smash the state, or the state as represented by Starbucks windows. While I don't think anarchism can work on a national scale (because I think anarchism is utopian and humans are flawed), I'm interested in the idea of organizing collectives based on consensus. For a while I was trying to start an art history grad student collective in our program, for instance, but it didn't fly. I also tend to be philosophically leftist and anti-authoritarian in everything I do, from the way I consider myself as a scholar to my sense of humor. I think of myself as an anarchist because of the person I am, and not just because of the politics I espouse. I could go on if you want but it might lead in an intellectually masturbatory direction.

And fishy, I also noticed that about the insults.....

AmoroAgain · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:468a1a1c-8956-43e8-a990-edb8f65fa133">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah, my response was going to be like TJ's, but in a joking way. :-/ Because I am liberal. And agnostic. There are statistics for how a person is likely to vote based on levels of education (less than high school, high school, AA, BA, master's, PhD, etc). Pretty interesting. But I take it as that - just something that's interesting, not gospel. (Pun intended.)
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Also this. Anyone remember watching the Oprah where she was supposedly hosting Dr's who had "research" that showed brown-eyed people are less intelligent than blue-eyed? When she opened it up for audience comments and questions, people started talking about how so-and-so with brown eyes was stupid, and here's the example why...

When she actually told the audience that they were an example in how the human brain works in believing things like this. It ended up being a show about how people follow or how they could buy in to crazy things like the rise of Hitler and the Holocaust.

crfische · March 2010

I wish I could formulate another response, but as a smug dumb rock, I'm having a hard time [continuing to] do so.

AmoroAgain · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:df5ece5b-395b-4045-b903-48f83cffd765">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is interesting. : I personally think there's a lot more to being an anarchist than just wanting to smash the state, or the state as represented by Starbucks windows. While I don't think anarchism can work on a national scale (because I think anarchism is utopian and humans are flawed), I'm interested in the idea of organizing collectives based on consensus. For a while I was trying to start an art history grad student collective in our program, for instance, but it didn't fly. I also tend to be philosophically leftist and anti-authoritarian in everything I do, from the way I consider myself as a scholar to my sense of humor. I think of myself as an anarchist because of the person I am, and not just because of the politics I espouse. I could go on if you want but it might lead in an intellectually masturbatory direction. And fishy, I also noticed that about the insults.....
Posted by sarah0725[/QUOTE]

Okay, so you're more of a personal anarchist than a political one. And yes, we could go round and round about it, but at the end of the day, anarchy doesn't work on a large scale.

After the nuclear holocaust or when there is no ability for a strong central government, and we're thrown back to bands of hunter-gatherers, maaaaaybe. ;)

bpage3 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:66a4a758-2798-4261-b481-b061016a499f">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is interesting. : Okay, so you're more of a personal anarchist than a political one. And yes, we could go round and round about it, but at the end of the day, anarchy doesn't work on a large scale. After the nuclear holocaust or when there is no ability for a strong central government, and we're thrown back to bands of hunter-gatherers, maaaaaybe. ;)
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]

Haha- this is how FI's boss justifies hunting and being a diry hippie that doesn't believe in monogamy. (also why i think my dogs don't like the neighbors w/a no taxes vanity license plate)

sarah0725 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:66a4a758-2798-4261-b481-b061016a499f">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is interesting. : Okay, so you're more of a personal anarchist than a political one. And yes, we could go round and round about it, but at the end of the day, anarchy doesn't work on a large scale. After the nuclear holocaust or when there is no ability for a strong central government, and we're thrown back to bands of hunter-gatherers, maaaaaybe. ;)
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]

Well, that's why I'm learning to shoot. Gotta be prepared to hunt my own meat after we run out of oil and the world falls apart. :)

In all seriousness, though, I generally feel disenfranchised by the political process because nothing that happens comes anywhere close to what I believe. As a result, grassroots movements, community organizing, and political protest all appeal to me. And the Marx Brothers. So I guess I'm also a social anarchist.

smokeybailey · March 2010

I am a liberal and agnostic. If I go all the way over to atheist, maybe I will achieve the IQ level I have always dreamed of. However, I think I am few IQ points shy of being able to believe that there is absolutely NOTHING out there. Nope. Can't do it.

This part made me laugh out loud:

"More intelligent people don't have more children, so moving away from the trajectory is not going to happen," he said.

Perhaps Daff's hate for children is really just an indication of her higher intellect!

thesuninherhead · March 2010

This isn't the first study to report such findings.

That said, without reading the study to know what method/analysis/variables etc were examined, I postulate that the reason for the higher level of religiosity in low IQ people is a direct result of their SES (socio economic status, aka $'s). When things are hard and you have a difficult time trying to scrape together money for food, the idea of a God who watches over you and 'has a plan' for you is very comforting. When you're doing well and don't have such worries on your mind (as per high SES people), you don't so much need the notion of someone up there protecting and looking out for you to comfort you.

People who have higher SES are also more likely to be well educated (this is very well documented, and the reasons are pretty obvious- less poverty, better access to education), thus I think this explains the religion and IQ links.

That's my take on the religion aspect, anyway.

squirrly · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:b130c0a1-f31b-4a48-864c-9e16e7d2b4aa">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]I wish I could formulate another response, but as a smug dumb rock, I'm having a hard time [continuing to] do so.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

As am I. Way to be offensive, folks.

sarah0725 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:918823ee-f212-4ded-ba08-e24ae7a3ccfc">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]This isn't the first study to report such findings. That said, without reading the study to know what method/analysis/variables etc were examined, I postulate that the reason for the higher level of religiosity in low IQ people is a direct result of their SES (socio economic status, aka $'s). When things are hard and you have a difficult time trying to scrape together money for food, the idea of a God who watches over you and 'has a plan' for you is very comforting. When you're doing well and don't have such worries on your mind (as per high SES people), you don't so much need the notion of someone up there protecting and looking out for you to comfort you. People who have higher SES are also more likely to be well educated (this is very well documented, and the reasons are pretty obvious- less poverty, better access to education), thus I think this explains the religion and IQ links. That's my take on the religion aspect, anyway.
Posted by thesuninherhead[/QUOTE]

I was thinking along those lines too - the parameters of the study may lead to a result that is biased in this direction. Am I nuts, or is it also the case that SES is generally linked to higher IQ, perhaps because the way the test is designed is biased? It may be that the kind of people who are designed to perform well on IQ tests also tend to fall into these groups. I'm not sure how effective IQ tests are as a measure of intelligence.

MeaghanandMichael · March 2010

I know this is unrelated to the study, but I always wonder if smarter people being moved towards atheism and liberalism has to do with the education they recieve. Think about how super liberal and atheist leaning many of the ivy league unversities are. Group think?

I don't know if that makes sense, but it is what I have seen in my experience.

alixzafiris · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:86e3ffe7-0e38-4603-8544-582e02355dca">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is interesting. : As am I. Way to be offensive, folks.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

thesuninherhead · March 2010

The question of what intelligence is (and thus, how to measure it) is one that I don't know we'll ever resolve in a way that everyone agrees with! But yes, it's well known that intelligence tests are not unbiased, because our version of intelligence as resting on the understanding on concepts taught in our education system thus overlaps with education.

Of course, there's other ways that SES interacts with IQ score as well, though- even basic things like level of nutrition impact on cognitive abilities, thus it's very multifaceted. But yes, I would hazard a guess that the effects of SES (even if they were statistically controlled for to some extent) would be playing a role in the relationship between IQ and Religious beliefs that is being reported here.

beatlesgirl25 · March 2010

I just wanted to note, for folks who didn't read the whole thing, that this article isn't claiming that either side is smart while the other is dumb. Both averages, at 95 and 106, are quite middle-of-the-road average intelligence. Just in case anyone was getting offended by the implication.

thesuninherhead · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:f1ee07ea-029d-4279-8f99-49f1cfb3f00e">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]I know this is unrelated to the study, but I always wonder if smarter people being moved towards atheism and liberalism has to do with the education they recieve. Think about how super liberal and atheist leaning many of the ivy league unversities are. Group think? I don't know if that makes sense, but it is what I have seen in my experience.
Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]
<p> </p><p>But Meaghan, it could also go the other way- that people who are attracted to university are less likely to be religious to begin with. And on the other hand somewhat in support of the idea of education impacting, as the article does mention, in some ways education alone does open one up to being more likely to question religion- given that education has a primary aim of increasing critical thinking/evaluation abilites. </p>

sarah0725 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:f1ee07ea-029d-4279-8f99-49f1cfb3f00e">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]I know this is unrelated to the study, but I always wonder if smarter people being moved towards atheism and liberalism has to do with the education they recieve. Think about how super liberal and atheist leaning many of the ivy league unversities are. Group think? I don't know if that makes sense, but it is what I have seen in my experience.
Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

I think that could have something to do with it, but there's also more to it. I know my department is a haven for commies and anarchists, but I don't think I became a pinko commie because I went there. I think I'm a pinko commie because my parents are wishy washy liberals and when your parents are already on the left, what else can you do to become more extreme? I kid, but still. Since I grew up in an environment that nurtured that kind of thinking, grad school in a similar environment made sense for me, and since I'll be heading right back into the university system when I get my degree, I'll just be perpetuating it. This doesn't really bother me. :)

So basically, I think your suggestion is chicken-egg. Do universities churn out leftists, or do people who are already left-leaning find a nurturing environment in the university setting, especially in the humanities, where so much theory is based on leftist thought? I think it's a bit of both.

opalsky007 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_well-this-interesting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3ad2a892-c066-47b3-ad28-284c7bd66465Post:f1ee07ea-029d-4279-8f99-49f1cfb3f00e">Re: Well, this is interesting.</a>:
[QUOTE]I know this is unrelated to the study, but I always wonder if smarter people being moved towards atheism and liberalism has to do with the education they recieve. Think about how super liberal and atheist leaning many of the ivy league unversities are. Group think? I don't know if that makes sense, but it is what I have seen in my experience.
Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

This would be an interesting twist, given how many of these schools started out as theological seminaries.

In my own experience, education doesn't often have a lasting impact on ideology. It may challenge you to think harder about what you believe, and consider alternatives. More frequently, I've seen students pick schools they already identify with, and work on the finer points of their own point of view while they're there.

Moneypenny424 · March 2010

Well, I'm very liberal and I'm also intelligent. So, for those of you who only know stupid liberals, it's nice to meet you.

I was also offended by some of these comments. The "study" is just an interesting note, it in no way speaks truths about all people.

The smartest people I know do happen to be atheist liberals, but I also happen to know many highly intelligent, religious conservatives. I don't necessarily think that religion/politics has anything to do with intelligence.

Morfudd · March 2010

I wish they had taken familial influence/upbringing into account. Were these liberals raised liberals? Did they have very conservative upbringings? Were they raised athiest? Political and religious beliefs can be so loaded with generational conflict...

Well, this is interesting.

Re: Well, this is interesting.

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