Divorced ILs?

s-aries8990 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:128fe3c2-8321-472b-b864-7f5c56b487a8">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]Owning a home, sigh, my point is, traditional etiquette means you do not care about how serious the relationship is. Being serious does not result in a "must " invite. Married, engaged does. Thurman, I beleive that many books added live-in to accomadate GLT couples. That still doesn't mean that every GF/BF is an automatic invite.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

OP, please do not take NYU's advice on this topic.

NYU, you must have friends that either jump into marriages and engagements or are totally ok with having their SO's disrespected. I think that your views on this subject are preposterous and that you give terribly poor advice in these situations.

mcda04 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:10fb6371-02ae-4d27-8443-9c82e9fc4490">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]Lile, can you not read? I said, repeatedly, that the traditional determiniations of a "must" invite does not require determining whether the relationship is serious or not. <strong> It looks to other measures. </strong>
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

Seriously? So what would be your logic for excluding dad's gf and not a guests gf if they've been together the same amount of time?

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:9a359750-93e7-4082-998f-0dcf46bb2ec0">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Divorced ILs? : OP, please do not take NYU's advice on this topic. NYU, you must have friends that either jump into marriages and engagements or are totally ok with having their SO's disrespected. I think that your views on this subject are preposterous and that you give terribly poor advice in these situations.
Posted by sydaries[/QUOTE]

Sydaries, NYU's problem is that her dad left her mom for another woman, and she's obsessed with blaming her step-mother (or maybe it's still her dad's g/f, I can't keep that part straight) for the dissolution of her parents' marriage and making sure that daddy's new S/O is adequately punished for stealing her father by being pushed out of everything related to her wedding, while she simultaneously robs her father blind to pay for said wedding. Honestly, with that kind of bizarre logic doing loops through her head, I completely understand why she's so BSC. I think a good therapist would probably be a lot more helpful to her than Emily Post, though.

AddieCake · December 2012

I don't care what book says what. I can't imagine anyone (with the exception of NYU, apparently) thinking it would be ok to not invite the father's girlfriend, with whom he has been for eight years.

s-aries8990 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:6fe00839-d4a1-4c7d-8723-604d11907eee">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Divorced ILs? : I would say the majority of POSTERS on the Knot. Not the Knot website itself.
Posted by Edie Bee[/QUOTE]

<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/etiquette:" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/etiquette:</a>
<table border="0" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="3" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="tr1" valign="top"><td class="td1" colspan="2"><strong><span><span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">etiquette</span> </span></strong><span> <span>(ˈɛtɪˌkɛt,</span> <span>ˌɛtɪˈkɛt)</span> </span><a id="dic_result" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><img class="luna-Img" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif" border="0" alt="[Click for IPA pronunciation guide]" /></a></td></tr> <tr valign="top"><td colspan="2"> </td></tr> <tr class="tr2" valign="top"><td class="td2" colspan="2"><span>— </span><strong><em><span><span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">n</span> </span></em></strong> </td></tr> <tr class="tr3" valign="top"><td class="td3n1" width="1%" align="right"><span><span>1.</span> </span></td><td class="td3n2"><span><span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">the</span> <span>customs</span> <span>or</span> <span>rules</span> <span>governing</span> <span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">behaviour</span> <span>regarded</span> <span>as</span> <span>correct</span> <span>or</span> <span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">acceptable</span> <span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">in</span> <span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">social</span> <span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">or</span> <span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">official</span> <span style="color:#333333;cursor:default;">life
</span> </span></td></tr></tbody></table>
And who decides what is correct socially? The majority, not some dead lady and her money-hungry ancestors like the Post women. And the majority- like the Knot posters and others who are looking to please and accomodate their guests- have concluded that it is proper etiquette to invite the SO of a guest.

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

And OP, to answer your question, the solution to your problem is to invite everyone, warn everyone that everyone else is invited in advance, and let them sort out amongst themselves, like the adults that they are, whether they each can handle being there or not under those circumstances.

LiLe422 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:10fb6371-02ae-4d27-8443-9c82e9fc4490">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]Lile, can you not read? I said, repeatedly, that the traditional determiniations of a "must" invite does not require determining whether the relationship is serious or not. It looks to other measures.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

I can read just fine, thank you.

I can give 2 schits about "traditional determinations." I care more about the comfort of my family, friends and loved ones. I'm sorry daddy money-bags affair flucked your mind up so bad you cannot see that pov.

thurmanpowell · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:2870dad4-583e-44ba-84e7-1a036b1380fb">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't care what book says what. I can't imagine anyone (with the exception of NYU, apparently) thinking it would be ok to not invite the father's girlfriend, with whom he has been for eight years.
Posted by AddieL73[/QUOTE]

THIS. The invite all SO's thing isn't even one of my pet peeves, but I think the answer is super obvious in this case. Doesn't hurt that not only is FMIL the one starting drama with the GF, but FMIL also takes issue with the inter-racial relationship in general. Dad's GF deserves an invite over her.

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:ed78b4fb-a5bd-4747-8466-fa1361f6627b">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]Steph, so why is it that the wedding etiquette books say that BF/GF is not a must invite? Why do they limit it? Do they all hate stepparents?
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

Honestly? I don't actually care what the wedding books say. I care about the comfort of my family and friends, and about doing things that make them feel respected, rather than disrespected. I have been on the other end of the "your b/f can't come because you're not engaged, married, or living together," invitation and honestly? It's a sh!tty position to be in. "Hey, come celebrate our relationship, while we completely ignore yours because it doesn't fit some arbitrary cut-off we selected to save money on food at our reception" is not an inviting invitation, to me. The fact that Emily Post says it was okay didn't make me feel better about attending my friend's wedding without my boyfriend of three years. I get that you don't understand why that would make me feel bad (because you seem to have the emotional depth of a turnip), but it did, so why wouldn't I warn an OP that leaving out a b/f or g/f could cause hurt feelings when I know, from my own hurt feelings, that it may?

The fact that you can't even begin to comprehend that comfort, respect, and general niceness might factor in to answering these questions is what makes me think you are in serious, serious need of some therapy. Allowing your hate to blind you to the extreme level that you are so clearly blinded on this issue is not healthy.

s-aries8990 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:a63fc59e-663a-4c68-a4a4-befc2f6ea0dd">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Divorced ILs? : Sydaries, NYU's problem is that her dad left her mom for another woman, and she's obsessed with blaming her step-mother (or maybe it's still her dad's g/f, I can't keep that part straight) for the dissolution of her parents' marriage and making sure that daddy's new S/O is adequately punished for stealing her father by being pushed out of everything related to her wedding, while she simultaneously robs her father blind to pay for said wedding. Honestly, with that kind of bizarre logic doing loops through her head, I completely understand why she's so BSC. I think a good therapist would probably be a lot more helpful to her than Emily Post, though.
Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]

Oh I know that, and I've told her in previous threads that she can't project her situation and desires onto the situations of others.

I understand why she's kinda cray cray and agree she needs some therapy.

I have my own issues (if you look on page 1) but I don't let my abusive, manipulative father destroy my judgement on other divorced fathers.

Honestly, NYU, what's done in your life is done. You must learn to accept it and let it go. Why don't you write your feelings down in a letter, seal the letter, then put it in a little boat on the river. Let it float away with all of your anger and resentment. It's a technique that I've seen work!

SteelHibiscus · December 2012

Thanks for all your input! You've been super helpful

AddieCake · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:10dd08f6-0807-4801-bb91-9950fe8186c4">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]No one seems to care about the FH? He would rather his mother be comfortable -- but when we look to comfort of guests, that doesn't seem to matter?
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

<div>Of course his mother should also be comfortable. Unfortunately, there is going to be some discomfort here. But it has been EIGHT YEARS. The whole lot of them needs to just suck it up and play nice for a few hours. </div>

StephJean83 · December 2012

NYU, how do you determine the "living together" scenerio? FH was invited to 3 weddings in June for August/September weddings. We moved in together in July. Should I have not be invited to the weddings as his date because when the couple put the stamp on the invites and dropped them in the mail box I was not living with FH? We weren't living together when he got the invites but we were living together when the weddings actually happened.

OP, others have given you great advice about inviting all party involved and letting everyone know FMIL, FFIL, FFIL's GF are invited and if FMIL doesn't want to attend, that is on her. My best friend's parents are divorce, have been since my friend was 1 1/2 yrs old and they still can put their differences aside for the sake of my friend when it comes to major things in her life. They are adults and thus, when need to be, they suck up their issues with each other for their daughter.

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

Look, if FH wants to be a rude pill to someone (FFIL's g/f) who has been, it sounds like, nothing but kind to him and his future wife, just to appease his BSC mother, that's his business, but no, I don't think "I'd rather appease my irrational mom than acknowledge my perfectly lovely dad's perfectly lovely g/f" is a fair reason to exclude someone from the guest list. Obviously OP needs to reach a solution that works for her and her FI and their families, but, based on her description of the situation, it sounds to me like FH doesn't have a problem with the g/f and just wants to give in to mom because she's an emotional terrorist. And personally, I don't believe in negotiating with terrorists.

OwningAHome1981 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:a6f7540c-1cfc-4f43-bf36-6be0062b51b0">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]STeph, I would have said when invites went out. Addie, the issue is this. If I quote standard etiquette books, I am told no, it is about people being comfortable. Then if I ask, who should be comfortable, it is well mom should suck it up. Seems to me that the FH should get some say in this.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

Etiquette books are not the end-all/be-all for every situation. Each situation is different and the solution cannot be determined from a book. I've stated, as well as other posters, the father must be invited with this women. No one has to like her but she does have to be invited. The FMIL can choose whether or not to come, but it would pretty foolish for her to miss her son's wedding b/c of ONE guest.

AddieCake · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:a6f7540c-1cfc-4f43-bf36-6be0062b51b0">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]STeph, I would have said when invites went out. Addie, the issue is this. If I quote standard etiquette books, I am told no, it is about people being comfortable. Then if I ask, who should be comfortable, it is well mom should suck it up. Seems to me that the FH should get some say in this.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

<div>I hear what you're saying. My father left my mother 35 years ago for another woman, and I spent my entire childhood listening to my mother's hatred of my stepmother, who I adored. My father's marriage to my stepmother lasted something like 20 years, and then he left her for another woman, who eventually left him, and now he is remarried yet again. So believe me, I get the discomfort, I get the drama of it. </div><div>
</div><div>However, I still invited my former stepmother to my wedding, even though I knew it would be somewhat uncomfortable for her, my father, and probably his new wife, even though she had nothing to do with any of it. My mother is deceased. Sometimes we have family situations that are uncomfortable and everyone really does just have to deal with it like adults. That's why I just in a million years would never consider NOT inviting the woman the father has been with for eight years. </div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

StephJean83 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:a6f7540c-1cfc-4f43-bf36-6be0062b51b0">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>STeph, I would have said when invites went out.</strong> Addie, the issue is this. If I quote standard etiquette books, I am told no, it is about people being comfortable. Then if I ask, who should be comfortable, it is well mom should suck it up. Seems to me that the FH should get some say in this.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

So the fact that from the day the invites went out to the day the wedding took place(6-8 weeks later and in one case, 12 weeks later) the fact that FH and I moved in together and than got engaged still means that the invite should haven't been extended to me because the day the invites went out we were BF/GF not living together? I use "not living" together loosely because the lease for our apt was signed, security deposit paid, first month rent paid, we were just waiting on the unit to be cleaned, painted and given the ok for us to move in. I'm sorry but that is just rude to us as a couple. I feel sorry for any friend of yours that has a long term BF/GF that they aren't living with or engaged to when your invites go out and who do end up moving in together or getting engaged from the day that you send out your invites to the day of your wedding.

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

NYU, nowhere did OP say her FI had any kind of problem with his father's g/f. She never said he disliked her, or that she was anything other than decent to them. I get what you're saying, and I get why you are so ridiculously damaged, but do not assume that everyone ends up the same level of damaged as you just because their parents' marriage ended in a similar way as your parents' marriage. There's not one single thing in OP's post to indicate that her FI has any problem with this woman other than the fact that his mom's a crazy racist who doesn't like her. My point was that if the only reason OP's FI was even considering not inviting his dad's g/f was because of his BSC mom, then that, to me, is not a good enough reason to exclude this woman.

If he has his own personal reasons that OP simply didn't share, then that's a potentially different story, and that's why I said that they need to work out a compromise that works for everyone, based on what's best for everyone, not just FI's mom.

Could you be any thicker on this topic?

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

Also, side note: NYU, your father's g/f having a relationship with him was not about you. I don't get why you have so much animosity for your step-mother for her role in (apparently) ruining your childhood, while giving your dad a free pass. Is it because of the money?

If so, you should definitely let your FI know he can buy him self instant forgiveness by showering you with expensive presents. That's something a certain type of guy would be very enthusiastic about.

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:f59485e9-9983-4e6e-96ca-42752ed7014f">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]Edie -- standard etiquette would avoid the problem. No need no invite Dads G/F Steph, OP says that FI would rather accomodate his mom. <strong>I think if there are issues between parent/stepparent, the child of the two should get to decide, not the future spouse.
</strong>Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

And I think the child of the two and that person's future spouse should decide <em>together</em>, because that's how decision-making works when you're married. So I guess that's where we differ.

StephBeanWed61502 · December 2012

You talk it through and come to a compromise. How do you and your FI handle things when you disagree? Do you just let one person "win"? Because that's not how my relationship with my H works. We talk until we come up with something that works for both people (even if all that happens is that we talk it through enough that one person concedes that the other is "right" and goes with the other person's plan). The fact that compromise didn't even occur to you makes me scared for your marriage.

OwningAHome1981 · December 2012

There are so many things wrong with this thread...

SMH

MartinAston · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:b5497a6c-a9dc-4838-83e2-f0ef3a471016">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Divorced ILs? : Someone who has an affair with a married person with a child (especially if it were a minor child), thereby contributing to breakup on home (note I said contribute, not solely responsible) has hardly been nothing but kind to said child.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

Ugh, I have watched so many threads with you and your one sided stance on Stepmoms. I hate that I'm furthering this conversation but you have pissed me off with what you have just said above. I'm a stepmom myself and I'll be damned if someone claims I'm not kind to my step daughter. Yes, her father and I met when he was still married, it's no secret. And I'm not about to spill my personal story, but yes mistakes where made and we can't go back, although things are great now. But there is always two sides to every story. You continually ooze your personal story into your replies and place blame on your step mom/dad's gf? Quit being such a titty baby about step parents and realize that in your parents divorce their were two adults involved and while your dad made a mistake in an affair, your mom may not be the perfect angel either. If you continue to hold onto this I feel sorry for your face at the wrinkle you'll accrue.

MrsMack10612 · December 2012

NYU - you really need to get over this. My parents divorced 27 years ago for the same reason. My father is still married to the same woman. I've had debates on here about calling her "father's wife" vs. "stepmother". By definition stepmother is correct, I refuse to. It's a faux pas and flames I've willingly taken.

You need to realize that:

1. Your father's affair had nothing, zero, zip, zilch to do with you or your relationship with him.
2. Your father's wife did NOTHING to you. Her affair with your father has nothing, zero, zip, zilch to do with you.

You are beyond jaded on this topic and cannot see any other POV but your own. I highly recommend you stay out of these threads going forward. You do not offer any objective advice.

Significant others need to be invited. The fact that you would deny (per StephJean's example) an inviation to the long time BF/GF of a friend because they were not living together at the time an invitation went out is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if they were together for one day, one week, one year or 10 years. If they are "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" to the person in question that's all that matters.

ETA: OP also never indicated that FI didn't want to invite FFIL GF because he dislikes her. I got the impression that it was because of pressure from BSC FMIL. Like the others said, that's emotional blackmail and shouldn't be given in to.

StephJean83 · December 2012

The couple sits down with the MOG and explain why they want to invite FOG with his GF. The couple tells MOG that they love her and want her to be there to celebrate with them on their wedding day when they become a family but they want to celebrate with everyone in their family and that includes FOG and his GF.

MOG needs to learn how to be in the same room as FOG and his GF for the sake of their son. Unless OP and her FI never have children, they will still have other events where all 3 will be present.

My FFIL was married before my FMIL and had a son with his 1st wife. His exW has issues with my FMIL and does make any family event where all are present(granddaughter's bdays) very difficult. ExW also likes to rewrite history and tries to blame my FMIL for the divorce, which is not the case. My FFIL's exW cheated on him and left him for her now H. FTR, my FBIL doesn't hold either of his stepparents at fault for his parents divorce. He says his mom is solely responsible for the divorce(she cheated, she left) but since both parents have remarried and been for 30+ years, he respects and cares for all of his parents, even if they don't all get along.

s-aries8990 · December 2012

I call my father's wife "my father's wife" becuase she has been a beeyatch to me, undermined my intelligence from an early age and is always condescending. I call her kids my stepsiblings because they have been kind and nice the whole way through.

I don't let my dislike for my father's wife cloud my judgement.

OP, do you know why FI doesn't want to invite his dad's GF? Is it because of Mom?

MrsMack10612 · December 2012

There was no jump. I didn't say it was fact, I said it was my impression.

And FTR, it's no worse than all the jumps you make that all stepmothers are the devil and should be banned from everything.

MrsMack10612 · December 2012

Syd - I use "father's wife" and "father's children" because I have never had any familial relationship with them. I can say that in the last 20+ years I have only seen them 10 or fewer times.

MrsMack10612 · December 2012

Edie - I could aboslutely be wrong. It was simply my impression by the way the it read.

Of course, I'm still of the impression that all parents and their SOs need to be invited and act like grown ups for 6-8 hours.

MrsMack10612 · December 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_divorced-ils?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:242924ce-5d7b-42a5-9c07-da79a1a74f03Post:c9cb735c-b8cf-41e8-8f11-799a4385ff95">Re: Divorced ILs?</a>:
[QUOTE]Ah then I rescind my last comment.
Posted by Edie Bee[/QUOTE]

No need to rescind. It's all in interpretation.

I really only jumped in because I'm sick to death of NYU's "Stepmothers are evil and should be destroyed" stance. Having a similar history and a lot of years to come to terms with and finally find myself in a place of peace, I feel the need to interject sometimes.

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