this is the code for the render ad
Military Brides

I know we try not to get political here...

I know we try not to get too political on this board, but I'd love to talk to other people about this. Mississippi is trying to pass a "Personhood Amendment" also known as Amendment 26. Here is the wording of it:

Be it Enacted by the People of the State of Mississippi: SECTION 1. Article III of the constitution of the state of Mississippi is hereby amended BY THE ADDITION OF A NEW SECTION TO READ: Section 33. Person defined. As used in this Article III of the state constitution, "The term 'person' or 'persons' shall include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof." This initiative shall not require any additional revenue for implementation.


Regardless of the fact that I completely disagree with it, it's one of the most poorly written pieces of legislation I've ever seen. There are enough lawyers that could have written it clearly and they chose not to. It is technically possible that a man could, in a later divorce proceeding, accuse his wife with murder for a previous miscarriage or even for a biological defect known as a "hostile uterus."

Then there are people saying, "Well, the legislators and lawyers will sort it out." Roe v. Wade took four years from when "Roe" found she was pregnant for the case to work through the courts and be decided--and that was in the 70s. I wouldn't trust the MS state legislature to tell me what medical care to give my pets, they are purposely painting this with as broad a brush as possible and it makes me ill. It could outlaw forms of BC that prevent implantation or make doctors unwilling to perform medical procedures that save the life of the mother but endanger or kill the fetus for fear that they would be prosecuted.

And that it won't cost the taxpayers money-don't make me laugh. It will assuredly go to court, so the case would be paid for by the state. Which is funded by taxpayers. And again, I'm ill.  And I'm sure it would be challenged for years. It's just such a slippery slope. A lot of people say that they don't support abortion on demand, but when you start denying someone rights, you can just keep whittling away. It's the people that say they support it only in certain circumstances, but then keep taking away more and more rights.

My termination could definitely be considered, and was, an on demand abortion. I was on BC, it failed, and I made a sound medical and life decision between my doctor and myself. I wasn't raped, it wasn't incest, and my life, I'm pretty sure, would not have been in danger by continuing the pregnancy. But it was my choice, and it greatly enhanced my quality of life. I think when you start taking things away because you don't approve of someone's choice personally, as long as it doesn't hurt others, you start down the road to something like Prohibition (watch the mini-series, it's awesome). Which is not a good idea.

Thanks for letting me rant, it's just everywhere right now, even though I'm out of the state I know a lot of people there, and this just saddens me. (and credit to my friend Jenna for elucidating parts of that arguement better than I could have)
image
«1

Re: I know we try not to get political here...

  • melbelle24melbelle24 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I think the biggest problem with Prop. 26 is that there are so freaking many under-educated people in MS that only read it as an anti-abortion law without grasping what the full effects would be if it's passed (example: a patient with an ectopic pregnancy that doctors can't help because they couldn't save her life without endin the child's). I hate that our society has gotten to the point that someone thinks that laws and the gov't are responsible for regulating morals. I am personally against abortion, but for multiple reasons, I don't believe it should be banned, although tighter regulations couldn't hurt. I'm hoping and praying that this initiative doesn't pass.
    image
  • AmandaSC1988AmandaSC1988 member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    While I am very much Pro-life as I have said in other posts...But, completely I agree with you on the slippery slope aspect of that amendment. It does have the possibility of being very messy if there was the possibility of miscarriage and the like.  
    You can debate all day on the subject of  "When do they become a person" ...conception? when they look like a person? birth? 
    Also, When does that person have rights? ...Conception? When they look like a person? Birth? 12 years old? Never?....

    But it has been a topic of debate for a long time...and I don't think we will ever all agree. I'm not in agreeement with the amendment, I don't think that should be law... but it is something to think about...
    Photobucket
  • calindicalindi member
    5000 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    I get why states want to include some ability to prosecute a murderer (legitimate murder - gun, knife, hacksaw, vehicular, whatever) for killing a mother and an unborn baby.  I do totally get that, because the mother in those cases usually had made the conscious decision to carry that baby to term so it had the potential to be a real person.   And hypothetically, if I'm killed while carrying FI's unborn child, I do think he'd grieve for both of us so it seems just to be able to charge those cases with a double homicide.

    However, I fully believe a person that can be legally addressed and legislated for begins when they are literally and physically not dependent on another living organism for oxygen, nurishment, etc.  This does, for me, challenge the legality of late term abortions, but that is in an extreme circumstance anyway - less than 5% of abortions are performed in the third trimester after viability, and almost all of those are for severe medical issues with the mother and/or the fetus.  But still, until the child is outside the womb and thus not still part of the mother's body, I don't think it can be LEGALLY termed a "person".

    image

    Anniversary

  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    I hate when the bible is the basis of laws. Can you opt out if you don't believe in the bible????
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • AmandaSC1988AmandaSC1988 member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:984484cf-d347-4b35-8522-1f7e67a248dd">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I hate when the bible is the basis of laws. Can you opt out if you don't believe in the bible????
    Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

    No offense, but how is this related to the bible? It is defining what a person is.
    Photobucket
  • calindicalindi member
    5000 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:6b60e4f9-0855-4a68-a67e-bce9128f16b1">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : No offense, but how is this related to the bible? It is defining what a person is.
    Posted by AmandaSC1988[/QUOTE]

    ... based on what?  I would venture to say that 95% of bills like this are pushed forward by conservative Christian representatives, all quoting Bible quotes in their stump speeches for these types of bills.  Similarly, the laws for defining marriage as between a man and a woman all were held up against the Bible when Senators and Congressmen were pitching it.  Look up the transcripts on this bill and I will guarantee my left foot that the words "Jesus", "God", and/or "Bible" show up somewhere in the justification for this law.

    I'd look it up myself, but I'd get enfuriated.  The lack of separation between Church and state pisses me off.  A lot.  Like Hike, I'm curious if I can opt out of these things if I don't believe in the Bible.  Obviously that's not a serious question, but it should be!  Why does someone else get to dictate my laws based on their religious beliefs?

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    image

    Anniversary

  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:984484cf-d347-4b35-8522-1f7e67a248dd">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I hate when the bible is the basis of laws. Can you opt out if you don't believe in the bible????
    Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

    Cosigned time a million.
  • divinemsbeedivinemsbee member
    1000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:984484cf-d347-4b35-8522-1f7e67a248dd">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I hate when the bible is the basis of laws. Can you opt out if you don't believe in the bible????
    Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

    I love you so very much. And I do believe in parts of it.
    image
  • divinemsbeedivinemsbee member
    1000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    Cal- I would suggest you not look it up unless you just want to be raving mad for days. I've been pissed about it in general since I knew it existed, but since I went home last weekend I have wanted to strangle people because it's getting more and more press. This is a really good op-ed about it, though:

    http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/index.php/site/comments/spiehler_where_is_the_line_101211/
    image
  • AmandaSC1988AmandaSC1988 member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    I would be interested to read the transcripts on this amendment, but I don't have access to search for them at work. If anyone has a link I would like to read them when I get off. But to ME, not from the state and honestly IDGAF, but it sounds more scientific than religious. Mainly because religious foke do not support cloning.    


    When do you draw the line at religious and ethical? I mean it says in the bible you shouldn't kill people (and I'm not talking about abortion)... so do you believe murder is justified? What about theft?... I think that is in the bible
    Photobucket
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:722847cd-c0c6-48fc-a894-e113c1d03a88">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I would be interested to read the transcripts on this amendment, but I don't have access to search for them at work. If anyone has a link I would like to read them when I get off. But to ME, not from the state and honestly IDGAF, but it sounds more scientific than religious. Mainly because religious foke do not support cloning.   <strong>  When do you draw the line at religious and ethical?</strong> I mean it says in the bible you shouldn't kill people (and I'm not talking about abortion)... so do you believe murder is justified? What about theft?... I think that is in the bible
    Posted by AmandaSC1988[/QUOTE]


    My point is, laws or things that aren't laws should have nothing to do with the bible.

    The bible says murdering is bad? Let's say I don't believe in the bible. Just because I don't believe in the bible doesn't mean that I think what is said in the bible should be the opposite.

    That's not even a valid argument.

    Edit: Bolded part. The bible doesn't MAKE people ethical. I don't read the bible. I'm not bible educated AT ALL but I'm still an ethical person. To a fault actually.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • melbelle24melbelle24 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:3ba19d02-0286-40c5-9f6d-f2264e85d62b">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I get why states want to include some ability to prosecute a murderer (legitimate murder - gun, knife, hacksaw, vehicular, whatever) for killing a mother and an unborn baby. <strong> I do totally get that, because the mother in those cases usually had made the conscious decision to carry that baby to term so it had the potential to be a real person.   And hypothetically, if I'm killed while carrying FI's unborn child, I do think he'd grieve for both of us so it seems just to be able to charge those cases with a double homicide.</strong> However, I fully believe a person that can be legally addressed and legislated for begins when they are literally and physically not dependent on another living organism for oxygen, nurishment, etc.  This does, for me, challenge the legality of late term abortions, but that is in an extreme circumstance anyway - less than 5% of abortions are performed in the third trimester after viability, and almost all of those are for severe medical issues with the mother and/or the fetus.  But still, until the child is outside the womb and thus not still part of the mother's body, I don't think it can be LEGALLY termed a "person".
    Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]
    Sorry, but those laws drive me crazy. How can you (general you, not you specifically) say that because someone wants a baby, it's homicide to kill said baby... but if the mom doesn't want it and gets an abortion (i.e. killing the baby), it's not murder? That just seems hypocritical to me, it's such a double standard. And to your point that if you and your unborn child were killed, your FI would mourn you both - what if the child's father wants it but the mother doesn't and chooses to get an abortion? Do you think he wouldn't mourn the loss of a child he never got to have?
    image
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Here is an article:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/american-family-association-promotes-extreme-%E2%80%9Cpersonhood-amendment%E2%80%9D-mississippi

    The amendment gets a lot of support from the religious group the American Family Association.

    Some quotes:

    "Not to be outdone, AFA Director of Issue Analysis Bryan Fischer said that Mississippi’s “Personhood Amendment” will advance his objective of “aligning” the country’s laws with “the word of God:”

    "One of the things we look for from our political leaders is we want to see them work to align the public policy of our country with the standards of the word of God, that’s what we want, we want an alignment. We’re not talking about a theocracy where the clergy rules this country; we’re talking about statesmen, both men and women, who are committed as a matter of moral conviction to align the public policy of the United States with the word of God."


    EFF THAT. The word of God should not be law.

    UGH. I'm so freakin' fired up right now.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • edited December 2011
    Oh my lovely hippy hikey friend :)
    I appreciate your logic as math major.

    Statement: "I believe in the bible, therefore I believe that murder is bad."
    A correct statement to coincide with that would be
    "I don't believe murder is bad, ergo I don't believe in the bible"
    That would be correct and is called the contrapositive.

    However, the inverse
    "I do not believe in the bible, ergo I do not believe murder is bad."
    and the converse
    "I believe murder is bad, ergo I believe in the bible."

    Are both only conditionally correct.
    Your statement does not hold true in this condition, Amanda, as several of us think murder is bad and do not believe in the bible.

    Aaaand that's FTL's Math lesson of the day: Discrete Mathematics. 
    :] bahaha

    ETA: I realize this has no political standing and is irrelevant to the conversation at hand, I just like any excuse to fit in a Math lesson that is somewhat relateable. I feel everyone should know discrete Mathematics for ease of debate.. so there you go. :P
  • melbelle24melbelle24 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:6966b5ad-ae96-471f-8ffd-3e39d9a2bbbc">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : My point is, laws or things that aren't laws should have nothing to do with the bible. The bible says murdering is bad? Let's say I don't believe in the bible. Just because I don't believe in the bible doesn't mean that I think what is said in the bible should be the opposite. That's not even a valid argument.
    Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]
    Technically, or maybe theoretically at least, aren't all laws based off religion? Maybe not the Bible persay, but religion was the basis of the first code of law (the Code of Hammurabi in ancient Babylon) and modern-day law is based off that.
    image
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:e870a168-1fca-458e-b5a0-e1cee7a971ce">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : Technically, or maybe theoretically at least, aren't all laws based off religion? Maybe not the Bible persay, but religion was the basis of the first code of law (the Code of Hammurabi in ancient Babylon) and modern-day law is based off that.
    Posted by melbelle24[/QUOT

    Those laws also say if a man steals from a temple, he should be put to death. If a woman is cheating on her husband, she should be strangled and cast into water.

    Laws are evolving. I can't change the past but I can definitely make sure I stand firm in my belief of a separation of church and state. I don't believe an abortion law has that separation.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:cdc10c10-d265-4b71-ac0f-81ce53de8058">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Oh my lovely hippy hikey friend :) I appreciate your logic as math major. Statement: "I believe in the bible, therefore I believe that murder is bad." A correct statement to coincide with that would be "I don't believe murder is bad, ergo I don't believe in the bible" That would be correct and is called the contrapositive. However, the inverse "I do not believe in the bible, ergo I do not believe murder is bad." and the converse "I believe murder is bad, ergo I believe in the bible." Are both only conditionally correct. Your statement does not hold true in this condition, Amanda, as several of us think murder is bad and do not believe in the bible. Aaaand that's FTL's Math lesson of the day: Discrete Mathematics.  :] bahaha ETA: I realize this has no political standing and is irrelevant to the conversation at hand, I just like any excuse to fit in a Math lesson that is somewhat relateable. I feel everyone should know discrete Mathematics for ease of debate.. so there you go. :P
    Posted by firsttimersluck[/QUOTE]

    Sometimes I think people don't believe hippies have a basis for their arguments. Thank you for taking my social, fired up, hot headed argument and giving it a foundation.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • melbelle24melbelle24 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:d5190bef-0aad-49c5-a748-81377223854f">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : Those laws also say if a man steals from a temple, he should be put to death. If a woman is cheating on her husband, she should be strangled and cast into water. Laws are evolving. I can't change the past but I can definitely make sure I stand firm in my belief of a separation of church and state. I don't believe an abortion law has that separation.
    Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]
    I'm not arguing with any of that. My point was that you can't say that the law isn't based off religious beliefs because it is those religious beliefs that shaped what we see as "right" and "wrong". I also believe in the separation of church and state, as I stated in my first post.
    image
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:8d555477-b4e9-4c62-821e-c6a3edf7a73c">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : I'm not arguing with any of that. My point was that you can't say that the law isn't based off religious beliefs because it is those religious beliefs that shaped what we see as "right" and "wrong". I also believe in the separation of church and state, as I stated in my first post.
    Posted by melbelle24[/QUOTE]

    I get what you're saying. Definitely.

    But I really think, even if laws were based on religion, then they can evolve as a country grows. Does that make sense?

    One of the laws was that if a man commits incest with his daughter, then he should be killed. Obviously I believe that incest with his daughter is bad. I don't believe that, though, because of religion.

    Like I said, we can't change the past. However, to start to make laws because of God's word isn't right, in my opinion.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:8d555477-b4e9-4c62-821e-c6a3edf7a73c">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : I'm not arguing with any of that. My point was that you can't say that the law isn't based off religious beliefs because it is those religious beliefs that shaped what we see as "right" and "wrong". I also believe in the separation of church and state, as I stated in my first post.
    Posted by melbelle24[/QUOTE]

    I disagree.
    "religion" such as the New Testim. only came around after Jesus. Do you think that everyone was just murdering for fun, raping, pillaging, etc before he came around and was all," yo, peeps! That be wronnng" ?
    Definitely not. People knew the difference between right and wrong, and even the Old Testim. showcases that, for those that do and don't believe in religion. What about people that are Buddhists and Confucians? Those are not strong-hold "religions" and yet people seem to have been doing just fine under simple non-religion based laws for centuries.
    I understand that maybe the UNITED STATES originally based their laws under those of the Puritans when first arriving to the US as a way of having a base to start from and evolve from there... but guess what?
    We've evolved.
    The whole point of coming to the US was for tolerance to and separate church and state, whether they started out as a unified piece or not.
  • divinemsbeedivinemsbee member
    1000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    FTL- My FI was reading your arguement over my shoulder and said for me to tell you that you're awesome, from one math major to another.
    image
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:88998ac5-4475-453c-ac14-1fbf9ee0cca5">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]FTL- My FI was reading your arguement over my shoulder and said for me to tell you that you're awesome, from one math major to another.
    Posted by divinemsbee[/QUOTE]

    Also, I like a debate every once in while so I'm glad you posted this.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:88998ac5-4475-453c-ac14-1fbf9ee0cca5">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]FTL- My FI was reading your arguement over my shoulder and said for me to tell you that you're awesome, from one math major to another.
    Posted by divinemsbee[/QUOTE]

    hahaha I read it to my H and he was like "woah woah woah.. slow down.. reread that to me O.o "
    Silly Engineer.. the Logic hurt his brain :P tehehehee. Thank you Divinemsbee's Fi :) Yay Math nerds!
  • edited December 2011
    Hike and Firsttimer I love you two haha
  • melbelle24melbelle24 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:14dfbef0-b4a0-488f-8889-dff46ce572d4">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : I get what you're saying. Definitely. But I really think, even if laws were based on religion, then they can evolve as a country grows. Does that make sense? One of the laws was that if a man commits incest with his daughter, then he should be killed. Obviously I believe that incest with his daughter is bad. I don't believe that, though, because of religion. Like I said, we can't change the past. However, to start to make laws because of God's word isn't right, in my opinion.
    Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]
    Yes, what you're saying makes sense, and I honestly don't disagree with your point. I am not trying to say that it is right to base laws on the Bible (and that's coming from a girl born and raised in the Bible Belt where everyone and their momma notices if you aren't in church on Sunday). But at the same time, I think it's a little bit absurd to expect lawmakers (or anyone) to be able to keep their religious beliefs from coloring their judgement and thoughts when it comes to deciding on laws, whatever those beliefs may be. What we believe shapes who we are and how we think. Do I think that the separation of church and state is important and something we should all strive for? Of course. But I think it's a little bit harder in practice than it is in theory.


    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:1be7b172-a8d1-4010-89c1-036cf1d957ad">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : I disagree. "religion" such as the New Testim. only came around after Jesus. Do you think that everyone was just murdering for fun, raping, pillaging, etc before he came around and was all," yo, peeps! That be wronnng" ? Definitely not. People knew the difference between right and wrong, and even the Old Testim. showcases that, for those that do and don't believe in religion. What about people that are Buddhists and Confucians? Those are not strong-hold "religions" and yet people seem to have been doing just fine under simple non-religion based laws for centuries. I understand that maybe the UNITED STATES originally based their laws under those of the Puritans when first arriving to the US as a way of having a base to start from and evolve from there... but guess what? We've evolved. The whole point of coming to the US was for tolerance to and separate church and state, whether they started out as a unified piece or not.
    Posted by firsttimersluck[/QUOTE]
    I promise I'm not trying to pick a fight, but this is EXACTLY why I specifically worded my post to say it's based on religion. Not the Bible, not any specific religion, but religion as a generalized basis. I don't care if you're Baptist, Hindu, Buddist, or believe in a monkey god... the center of every religion is essentially how to be a good person, and that is what has defined our moral and legal code. That was my point, not that Jesus came into the world and magically made everything better.
    image
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:434c9b18-b628-4ac2-9900-a1519c921abe">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : Yes, what you're saying makes sense, and I honestly don't disagree with your point. I am not trying to say that it is right to base laws on the Bible (and that's coming from a girl born and raised in the Bible Belt where everyone and their momma notices if you aren't in church on Sunday). But at the same time, I think it's a little bit absurd to expect lawmakers (or anyone) to be able to keep their religious beliefs from coloring their judgement and thoughts when it comes to deciding on laws, whatever those beliefs may be. What we believe shapes who we are and how we think. Do I think that the separation of church and state is important and something we should all strive for? Of course. But I think it's a little bit harder in practice than it is in theory. Posted by melbelle24[/QUOTE]
    Technically though Congress is elected by the people of the area they're from. What they vote for should be a reflection of what the people want not what they want based on their religious views
  • melbelle24melbelle24 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:cdc10c10-d265-4b71-ac0f-81ce53de8058">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Oh my lovely hippy hikey friend :) I appreciate your logic as math major. Statement: "I believe in the bible, therefore I believe that murder is bad." A correct statement to coincide with that would be "I don't believe murder is bad, ergo I don't believe in the bible" That would be correct and is called the contrapositive. However, the inverse "I do not believe in the bible, ergo I do not believe murder is bad." and the converse "I believe murder is bad, ergo I believe in the bible." Are both only conditionally correct. Your statement does not hold true in this condition, Amanda, as several of us think murder is bad and do not believe in the bible. Aaaand that's FTL's Math lesson of the day: Discrete Mathematics.  :] bahaha ETA: I realize this has no political standing and is irrelevant to the conversation at hand, I just like any excuse to fit in a Math lesson that is somewhat relateable. I feel everyone should know discrete Mathematics for ease of debate.. so there you go. :P
    Posted by firsttimersluck[/QUOTE]
    By the way, I totally love your logic here. It's pretty awesome. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />
    image
  • melbelle24melbelle24 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_try-not-political-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:05f75c5b-0634-4fac-97ec-c72fe9669a00Post:ea51b08e-c684-4b6d-86c2-794953fe96df">Re: I know we try not to get political here...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I know we try not to get political here... : Technically though Congress is elected by the people of the area they're from. What they vote for should be a reflection of what the people want not what they want based on their religious views
    Posted by Zimsgirl[/QUOTE]
    Should be, yes. That doesn't mean it always is.

    Also, considering that the law in question here is a MS law... I'm afraid that it actually IS a reflection of what a lot of people around here want.
    image
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Mel- As you can see this is my hot headed topic. I feel like I become a fire breathing dragon when it comes to this stuff.

    I can understand someone's personal (religious/anti religious) beliefs pointing them in the direction of a law because it is their belief. I just don't understand how a country, which is considered to be a mixing bowl, can put laws into place that are based out of religious beliefs. I know this doesn't happen much but people should push their religious belief out of their mind when they create laws to govern people of different/no religions

    I am a teacher and I can't base my rules off of one type of person. My class is diverse and therefore, I need to take that into consideration when creating my classroom environment. For example- some teachers grade a signed piece of paper from parents saying their kids read that month. I cannot, in good conscious grade my kids on that because not every kid has a responsible parent or a parent who gives a shiit. Should parents help their children and sign the paper? Yes. Is it my parental belief that parents should sign the paper? Sure. Can it work for everyone? No.

    That might be a stretching example but as a county, we aren't one size fit all.

    (Mel- I know I'm not "convincing you" because you do agree with separation. I'm kinda just thinking out loud.)
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • LetsHikeTodayLetsHikeToday member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Zims-

    Thank you. I definitely wanted to type that and forgot.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards