North Carolina

Paying a dowry

So, I was hanging out last night with FI and his best friend, who is the last of the "gang" to not be married, just bought a house, he closes next month. I was jokingly hassling him about when he was going to marry his girlfriend of 5 years, she is one of my BM's. So he's like, well we have to wait a few more years, I dont have $5000 to marry her. And im like, you mean, for a ring?? And he's like, no I have to pay her dad that much if I want to marry her. So we thought he was kidding, but he was dead serious. So I said, wait, you're serious?? He said yeah, actually it could be anywhere up to $10,000. His girlfriend was born here, is "American" as can be, but her parents are from a foreign country, they live here in NC. I was shocked and disappointed, secretly. I know he really wants to marry her, and I know she really wants to get married to him! Anyway I am disappointed because I think she should stand up to her parents and say, im sorry, but I love this person, i want to marry him, he doesnt have an extra $5000 laying around. None of my business of course but I think they need to put each other first, and forget everyone else. How ridiculous. :/
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Re: Paying a dowry

  • grace_ugagrace_uga member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Wow!  That is a complete cultural disconnect.  Does she know about it?
  • edited December 2011
    Yep!!!! She does!! That's why Im very disappointed in her for not standing up to her parents.
  • grace_ugagrace_uga member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    It sounds like if they are that traditional, she may not feel she can stand up to them.  Do they financially support her?
  • edited December 2011
    Thats just the thing, they dont..! She's one of like, 5 kids, she's pretty self-sufficient, has a decent job, apartment, pays for it herself, etc.
  • grace_ugagrace_uga member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    That's just nuts then!  He should just buy a ring and propose and say whatever.  I mean, her parents wouldn't disown her if they did that, right?  How did he find out they expect a dowry?   (Sorry about all the questions, I am just insanely curious!)
  • edited December 2011
    Frankly I wouldnt care if my parents disowned me if they were THAT selfish to keep me from marrying the person I loved just because they didnt have the money for a freaking dowry.. in 2009!!! Anyway, she TOLD him that they expect a dowry! Come to think of it, maybe she's OK with this!!! If that's the case, then I dont feel bad for her at ALL when she laments about not being proposed to :/
  • edited December 2011
    What country are her parents from?
  • grace_ugagrace_uga member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    She must be somewhat ok with it if she hasn't said screw that.
  • edited December 2011
    i agee that she should stand up to them but also it probably would mean her parents would disown her. you would think that they wouldnt being they are now in america but i guess some people still stick to thier stron cultural beliefs no matter where they are. if it was me, i am not sure what i would do but i know it would be hurtful. i would probably go ahead and get married, even if her family was to turn thier back on her for going against culture, i would hope that in the future they would see that $5k isnt worth pushing thier own daughter out of thier lives.
  • edited December 2011
    They are asian, I think from Laos or Vietnam...
  • edited December 2011
    Wow, they must be from the rural parts if they're seriously wanting a dowry. I had no idea dowries were still expected in SE Asia.  Maybe they just don't like him because he's not Vietnamese or whatever and the dowry is an excuse :(
  • edited December 2011
    I might be wrong but I thought that a Dowry was what the bride's parents gave to the husband's family?? Regardless though, that is very strange.  I agree that she should stand up to her family about this, especially if she ever wants to get married, but I'm kind of shocked that this is still a custom for them I guess.  On the other hand, who knows what kind of repurcussions could happen if she didn't uphold that tradition.  That sucks Katherine!
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  • wlfpkbridewlfpkbride member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    That is absolutely ridiculous! It's really hard for me to understand when people from different cultures feel so strongly about things like this. I have an arabic friend with very strict and traditional parents. She HAS to stay at home until she agrees to an arranged marriage. She wasn't even allowed to live on campus during her undergrad, she wasn't allowed to take any internships that would require her to move out of her parents house for the summer, she wasn't even allowed to participate in our study groups if males were going to be present. I felt awful for her. They really would disown her if she married someone they didn't choose. Her dad told her the only way it would happen is if he were dead.
  • edited December 2011
    bagantt is totally right! i swear, they are getting plaid and those parents are coming out 5000 up on this whole deal. IT IS what the BRIDES family provides to the GROOMS family, "to take her." Now days they say thats why the Bride's family pays for the wedding, major money up front, way traditional, terrible roots. So honestly I think they are both dumb, the dating couple, if they never even looked up what a dowry was, and just assumed it was groom to bride and that they shouldn't speak up because it is a cultural thing. Cultural my butt, if it were it would be in the correct direction, which is the OPPOSITE direction. This almost infuriates me. Which is ridiculous.
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  • edited December 2011
    Krystal, WOW, how awful!!!
  • wlfpkbridewlfpkbride member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    baganntt, I thought that too! But I just learned in my early European history class that it goes both ways, it just depends on the culture. The Germanic dowry required the groom to pay the bride's family and the Roman dowry required the bride's family to pay the groom's family.
  • edited December 2011
    Ahh, ok just found it on Wikipedia: "Hmong marriage customs differ slightly based on cultural subdivisions within the global Hmong community, but all require the exchange of a dowry from the husband’s family to the wife’s family. The amount is settled by negotiation of the elders of both families prior to the engagement and usually is paid in bars of silver or livestock. Today, it is also often settled in monetary terms. After the wedding, the girl will be given farewell presents and three sets of new clothes by her parents. She will also be given food for the journey. The couple leaves the wife's house and returns to the husband house where another party is held in celebration."Maybe FI's best friend can start collecting livestock or something ;)
  • wlfpkbridewlfpkbride member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    He should show up at their doorstep with a horse since they're being so traditional.
  • edited December 2011
    He should run a bake sale in the Brickyard at lunch time.  Or a Krispy Kreme fundraiser!  A few weekends of that I bet he'd be close to the money he needs ;)And I pinned the being from a rural part of Vietnam on the tail!  Hmong customs are very different from that of Vietnamese that live in the urban areas.
  • edited December 2011
    That's crazy.  However, I think the onus is on the girl to stand up and say to her parents 'this is the guy I want to marry.' period.  Particularly if she's complaining about not being engaged.  I agree w/ others that on some level she must be ok with it, otherwise, I think she already would've told her parents that that's not realistic for today and she neither wants or expects it. 
  • edited December 2011
    I guess it really is hard to understand other cultures. As some of the pp's have said, she is probably really scared to stand up to her parents in fear that they may disown her....have you talked with her about it?
  • edited December 2011
    Yeah, I should have mentioned at the onset that she is of the Hmong culture, I think they do things slightly differently... Anyway, yeah, I guess she IS ok with it! Guess she'll just have to wait until her BF can collect enough horses or Krispy Kreme money... :/
  • edited December 2011
    I just found out about it (the dowry thing) last night, from her BF... if she finds out he told us, and says anything to me, Im going to gently tell her that if she really does love him and really does want to marry him, that she needs to stand up to her parents OR tell them to give her the money so she can give it to him, so he can give it to them. If this is ALL about tradition and the mere act of money exchanging hands, then they should come up with a clever way of ensuring that he somehow gets the money so he can give it to them, NOT expecting him to come up with it on his own. Ugh. But, if she is ok with this, then I dont feel bad for her that he hasnt proposed yet.
  • edited December 2011
    whattt am I really reading this? That is beyond CRAZY!! What will her parents do with the money?? Just use it for there own good?
  • grace_ugagrace_uga member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I think if they are that traditional then they should respect the Western tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding and use the $5000 for their wedding.  JMO
  • edited December 2011
    Totally agree with Grace. I would ditch it all if they agreed to give at least the same amount to the wedding as he must give them in dowry. The cultural acknowledgement can not all be bent towards the brides family. I know our situation was not and DH and I come from ridiculously similar places in comparison to this couple. What else are they forcing the couple to do according to the Hmong culture? Or is it just this lovely and convenient tradition that makes them 5000 more wealthy? I am sure there are TONS of other traditions and expectations within that culture--particular dress, I bet they don't give diamonds, one ring, right hand, particular type of service, etc. etc. blah blah. I would say that is SO SO bunk if they only are holding up to the one that puts major money in the bride's parent's pockets. Ugh.
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  • edited December 2011
    Okay if the money was used for the wedding, I guess that's okay. But really that's like the couple paying for there own wedding. I guess her BF really loves her to do that. haha I know DH would never do that, on top of a engagement ring. Well i guess I would get a smaller ring. Hmmm that sucks!
  • edited December 2011
    FI just told me his friend said that the bride's parents give you "a good portion of" the dowry money back... whatever that means. BUT, what is ridiculous is that he has to come up with the $5000 (or more!) on his own! Poor thing, he doesnt make that much money to begin with AND he just bought a house... wth.
  • edited December 2011
    (get it back as a wedding present)
  • edited December 2011
    I guess I'm not the norm here, but I don't see an issue w/ this at all. It's a cultural thing. The beauty of America is that people may come here & practice their beliefs freely. Some people demand rings for marriage, some families demand a certain side of the bridal party pay for the wedding, some people demand certain religious beliefs, & some demand gifts. Some of you might break down in tears if your future husband broke a certain tradition & saw you in one particular piece of white clothing before a particular time. Others here think that's absolute BS. But it's personal choice as to whether or not to agree or disagree w/ any or all of these demands.She's a grown adult that can choose to be part of her family's tradition or not. It's 100% her choice, depending on how she feels about her family, her FI, & what she personally values. In many cultures, family comes first. My mother (Korean) was not alowed to marry her first choice for a husband because her family didn't like him. She abided by her family's wishes. That was her choice. There's no way that would stop me, but that's my choice. If she chooses to follow tradition, so be it; that's her choice.
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