Legal marriage then ceremony question

MRads · December 2010

My best friend's wedding is in February in Mexico...she lives in Tx and is getting married to a Mexican citizen who currently resides in Mexico. They haven't really decided what they are going to do, but they are contemplating getting married legally before the wedding to make the immigration easier so he can move to Tx with her after the wedding, instead of having to wait for immigration to go through.

If they do get married legally, should I encourage her to let her guests know? I read the April Fools wedding thread, and I would hate it if people got upset with her...they're not really considering themselves married till after the church wedding, but I can understand how people would be upset if they weren't watching the actual exchanging of the vows. TIA!

[Deleted User] · December 2010

What "church" are you talking about? If it is the Catholic church, if she is already married, I believe they can only have a convalidation ceremony.

MRads · December 2010

They're getting married in a catholic church, but she's not catholic...I think that's one of the things they're trying to figure out...they just switched priests because initially the church said that they would marry them, but then said it actually would be an issue. Oy.

Summer2011Bride · December 2010

I had two friends that got legally married at the courthouse for different reasons prior to their wedding. They didn't make mention of it in any of the wedding stuff, but I'm pretty sure most of their guests knew just from knowing them.

I guess you could always have the officiant say something at the beginning of the ceremony? And as far as the Catholic thing, I'm no help there

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2010

Yes, all of their guests need to know ahead of time.

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2010

Oh and they might not consider themselves married until the church ceremony but the law will. Churches aren't required for marriages but signing on the dotted line is and since they will do that at the legal ceremony, they will be married.

emilyinchile · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:856187fd-bc36-4d4a-9d86-8fdb644ca795">Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]My best friend's wedding is in February in Mexico...she lives in Tx and is getting married to a Mexican citizen who currently resides in Mexico. They haven't really decided what they are going to do, but they are contemplating getting married legally before the wedding <strong>to make the immigration easier so he can move to Tx with her after the wedding</strong>, instead of having to wait for immigration to go through. If they do get married legally, should I encourage her to let her guests know? I read the April Fools wedding thread, and I would hate it if people got upset with her...they're not really considering themselves married till after the church wedding, but I can understand how people would be upset if they weren't watching the actual exchanging of the vows. TIA!
Posted by MRads[/QUOTE]

Has your friend actually looked at how the visa process works? I don't know anyone who has done what she is proposing, where you get legally married in the non-US country while one partner lives in the US and the other is in his/her home country because from what I understand, it's a pain. So is the K-1 fiancé visa, but I know far more people who've done that. It's not like they get married and he just automatically gets to move to the US, not by a long shot.

So since both processes are a pain, she might as well just wait until his K-1 comes through, after which they would have 3 months to get married. People have planned weddings in 3 months before, so they can too, and then she avoids the whole issue.

FutureMrsTR · December 2010

Yeah, kind of ditto Emily, but I don't think the US looks very favorably on people who get married out of the country to try and gloss over immigration. Of course, my only reference is reading the book Committed by Elizabeth Gilbert where she's marrying a Brazilian and they have to jump through a million hoops to do it. She definitely mentions that them getting married elsewhere and then trying to come back to the US is frowned upon.

emilyinchile · December 2010

TR, that's not entirely true. You can get married pretty much wherever you want, but I *think* that the US spouse then has to continue to live in the US while you're going through the visa process. It's legal, but it's not particularly easy.

The other option is to get married abroad and then live abroad - once you've been a permanent resident of another country for 2 years, you can apply for a different type of visa through that country's US embassy, which is a much shorter process.

MyNameIsNot · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:18dcfa50-a2f6-4a00-8f9d-7b17270eeaa2">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]TR, that's not entirely true. You can get married pretty much wherever you want, but I *think* that the US spouse then has to continue to live in the US while you're going through the visa process. It's legal, but it's not particularly easy.
Posted by emilyinchile[/QUOTE]

<div>This.</div><div>
</div><div>I have a friend that is a Canadian citizen, but was here on a student visa. She got married, and is applying for US citizenship. She finally got her green card about 18 months after they got married. She was supposed to leave when her student visa expired and stay in Canada until she got a new one, but decided to just stay here illegally instead. </div><div>
</div><div>ETA: Getting married doesn't make it super easy or fast.</div>

FutureMrsTR · December 2010

Ah yeah, like I said I have no REAL experience with it, haha. I just know it's complicated!

aegrish · December 2010

I do not know about any of the immigration stuff, but no the guests don't need to know the ceremony is not their 'legal' marriage date if the ceremony date is what is important to them and what the couple will recognize!

When my FI and I were initially planning on getting married in Mexico, we were going to do the same thing- get married legally in the US and have a 'symbolic' ceremony in Mexico. One of our good friends did this and it made sense, you avoid a lot of paper/blood work and legal ceremonies in Mexico had to be conducted in spanish by a judge, and it's expesnive. We were NOT planning on telling the majority of our guests, only our parents, and we were planning on celebrating our anniversary as the day of our ceremony in Mexico. I think it's a smart choice for US couples marrying in Mexico to save money and avoid the hassle and I don't think they would need to let people know as long as they were considering the ceremony date their actual wedding, and not the legal marriage date.

opalsky007 · December 2010

I don't understand the need for the dishonesty.

If I were one of your wedding guests, I probably wouldn't judge you for having a legal ceremony early. But if you lied to me about it? I'd be furious.

Just because you don't consider it a lie doesn't mean it's not a lie.

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2010

exactly, opal

MyNameIsNot · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:ba7a9362-b5e2-4e17-8643-51129ca9f314">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]I do not know about any of the immigration stuff, but no the guests don't need to know the ceremony is not their 'legal' marriage date if the ceremony date is what is important to them and what the couple will recognize! When my FI and I were initially planning on getting married in Mexico, we were going to do the same thing- get married legally in the US and have a 'symbolic' ceremony in Mexico. One of our good friends did this and it made sense, you avoid a lot of paper/blood work and legal ceremonies in Mexico had to be conducted in spanish by a judge, and it's expesnive. We were NOT planning on telling the majority of our guests, only our parents, and we were planning on celebrating our anniversary as the day of our ceremony in Mexico. I think it's a smart choice for US couples marrying in Mexico to save money and avoid the hassle and I don't think they would need to let people know as long as they were considering the ceremony date their actual wedding, and not the legal marriage date.
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

<div>This is a terrible idea!</div><div>
</div><div>Your guests would understand the need to get married and have a show wedding later in this circumstance. They would not understand why you would lie to them. </div>

aegrish · December 2010

I agree the couple shouldn't lie about the legal marriage if asked, but I don't think there's a need to tell everyone the situation if the couple is recognizing the ceremony date as their anniversay, and I would definitely not be furious with a couple who chose to do this.

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:ba7a9362-b5e2-4e17-8643-51129ca9f314">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think they would need to let people know as long as they were considering the ceremony date their actual wedding, and not the legal marriage date.
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

Why not? Being married happens when you sign the dotted line and that's what you have to do in a legal ceremony, not when the couple decides it's more convenient to pick the second ceremony date as their "official" wedding date.

mica178 · December 2010

Some priests will allow you to have a fancy convalidation ceremony, but many will not. I would talk with your priest before you make any plans. Some will tell you that if you want the big church ceremony after your legal marriage then you cannot cohabitate with your husband until the church wedding (doing otherwise would be fornication since the church wouldn't consider you married). Others will say that you can have the convalidation ceremony but it will be attached to a normal church service so you cannot have a wedding party or decorate the church.

I have been to international weddings where the bride and groom married in the US before getting married in Mexico or wherever, and it was fine, but the couple was always upfront about it. Most people understand the difficulty of planning destination weddings. But honesty is the best policy. Most people don't want to be duped.

emilyinchile · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:8e101735-67cd-4cba-b8fd-9e9d4314cdb8">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree the couple shouldn't lie about the legal marriage if asked, but I don't think there's a need to tell everyone the situation if the couple is recognizing the ceremony date as their anniversay, and <strong>I would definitely not be furious with a couple who chose to do this.</strong>
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

Of course YOU wouldn't. Most people who have any vague clue about etiquette would though.

You can celebrate your anniversary whenever you want and delude yourselves - I don't care. But don't invite me to your wedding if it isn't your wedding. You incorrectly choosing to believe that your ceremony is a wedding doesn't make it so. And also? No one is making anyone get married in Mexico. If that's your dream, then do it the grown up way by going there early, doing blood tests, etc or by deciding to just do a blessing ceremony and inviting people to something that is labeled correctly.

aegrish · December 2010

your I am always right attitude emilyin wherever is as old as your syle of bangs. i am surprised people even invite you and the other 'ettiquette police' who think that everything is black & white to their weddings!

Stackeye210 · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:a0bc8d2d-13e0-4689-9b6e-552593b1bd26">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]your I am always right attitude emilyin wherever is as old as your syle of bangs. i am surprised people even invite you and the other 'ettiquette police' who think that everything is black & white to their weddings!
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

bwahahahahahahahahahaha. STFU. You're going down in flames no need to add gasoline to your fire.

opalsky007 · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:a0bc8d2d-13e0-4689-9b6e-552593b1bd26">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]your I am always right attitude emilyin wherever is as old as your syle of bangs. i am surprised people even invite you and the other 'ettiquette police' who think that everything is black & white to their weddings!
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

Line crossed.

The Mel and Todd Show · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:a0bc8d2d-13e0-4689-9b6e-552593b1bd26">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]your I am always right attitude emilyin wherever is as old as your syle of bangs. i am surprised people even invite you and the other 'ettiquette police' who think that everything is black & white to their weddings!
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

How many times must this be explained to you? This is an etiquette board. It is black and white. There is no grey area just because it's "your special day."

Attacking another poster's appearance is generally frowned upon around here.

Celles · December 2010

OP -- I think your friend needs to do some more research into the immigration process. I'm not an immigration attorney, but I'm going through the (lengthy and ridiculously convoluted...) immigration process with my Canadian FI now, and I'm pretty sure that what your friend is suggesting is illegal.

Even if she were to get married in Mexico, her husband still would not be legally permitted to reside in the US until after being approved for a K-1 spouse visa. The application for a K-1 spouse visa is almost identical to the application for a K-1 fianc(e)e visa and takes the same amount of time to process (currently five months through the California Service Center, and as long as four years at other centers).

While the application is being processed, he will need to remain in Mexico. Coming to the US before it is approved, even as her husband, will make him an illegal immigrant. If he's caught and deported, it is entirely likely that their application will be denied.

The long and short of it is that your friend will have to wait for immigration to go through either way. What she's proposing is only easier because it means she can plan to be wed on a specific date, without having to aim for a moving target (i.e., the 90-day window allowed by USCIS on a fianc(e)e visa). In the long run, getting married now may actually hinder the process; I've read that anecdotal reports suggesting that USCIS turns fianc(e)e visas around faster and with less resistance than spouse visas.

Anysunrise · December 2010

Ditto everything Celles said, especially the last bit.

ootmother2 · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:a0bc8d2d-13e0-4689-9b6e-552593b1bd26">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]your I am always right attitude emilyin wherever is as old as your syle of bangs. i am surprised people even invite you and the other 'ettiquette police' who think that everything is black & white to their weddings!
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

Try to spell etiquette correctly if you're going to use it in insults. It just looks better that way

emilyinchile · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:a0bc8d2d-13e0-4689-9b6e-552593b1bd26">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]your I am always right attitude emilyin wherever is as old as your syle of bangs. i am surprised people even invite you and the other 'ettiquette police' who think that everything is black & white to their weddings!
Posted by aegrish[/QUOTE]

Dude, I can't help it if I actually AM always right.

And my bangs have actually been complimented several times around here by people who actually know what they're talking about, just for the record. That comment coming from you just furthers my "aegrish is wrong about everything" hypothesis.

Anysunrise · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:e80c4b27-e7d8-4f91-9863-0614c3edb10b">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question : Dude, I can't help it if I actually AM always right. And my bangs have actually been complimented several times around here by people who actually know what they're talking about, just for the record. That comment coming from you just furthers my "aegrish is wrong about everything" hypothesis.
Posted by emilyinchile[/QUOTE]

I linked your photo to my friend since she wants to get bangs and you two look kinda similar. It convinced her to get them. (Hope you don't mind btw)

Celles · December 2010

Also, doesn't Mexico -- as a country and as a culture -- regard the religious and civil ceremonies as separate events anyway? We briefly considered getting married at my FIL's timeshare in Puerto Vallarta, and from what we read at the time, we would need to have a civil ceremony at a courthouse in order for a church or beach wedding to be legal. Since most Mexicans are Catholic, and the Catholic Church will only recognize the marriage that it officiates, two weddings are the norm there: legal courthouse wedding to satisfy the state, followed by a ceremonial church wedding to satisfy the soul.

I understand the whole "you are married when you sign the piece of paper" line of thinking, and think that it is true in many cases. But -- and I realize that this is an unpopular opinion -- I don't believe it is universally true across religions and cultures, and it is really starting to irk me to see it presented as if it were.

emilyinchile · December 2010

Celles, I've brought up what you're saying in a few threads because it's the same in Chile - the law just changed so you can have only a religious ceremony, but it's really hard, so most people who're doing a religious ceremony also do civil. If that were the case for OP's friend because they were living in Mexico, I'd say just explain the situation to any non-Mexican guests and you're good to go. But I don't think that justifying a wedding for immigration purposes with "well technically if we lived in my FI's country we'd probably do this anyway" and then lying about by keeping it secret it is ok.

Any, glad my out of style bangs could serve as hair inspiration!

Anysunrise · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_legal-marriage-then-ceremony-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:30da63de-1132-4e33-8d6e-7f0dcab4207bPost:b1a3eff8-2512-465d-a540-e389c1bcb59f">Re: Legal marriage then ceremony question</a>:
[QUOTE]Celles, I've brought up what you're saying in a few threads because it's the same in Chile - the law just changed so you can have only a religious ceremony, but it's really hard, so most people who're doing a religious ceremony also do civil. If that were the case for OP's friend because they were living in Mexico, I'd say just explain the situation to any non-Mexican guests and you're good to go. But I don't think that justifying a wedding for immigration purposes with "well technically if we lived in my FI's country we'd probably do this anyway" and then lying about by keeping it secret it is ok. <strong>Any, glad my out of style bangs could serve as hair inspiration!
</strong>Posted by emilyinchile[/QUOTE]

Yeah geesh, now I feel bad for showing her. The poor girl's going to be mocked endlessly now until they grow out!

Legal marriage then ceremony question

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