student loan forgiveness - your thoughts

leia1979 · March 2012

A FB friend of mine posted a link to a petition in favor of a bill that would create conditions in which student loans would be forgiven.

Here is a summary of key facts of the bill:
http://tinyurl.com/7akydbk

The petition itself has a few more links in it:
http://signon.org/sign/support-the-student-loan.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=705257

My gut reaction to this was that it's not fair to those of us who have fully paid off student debt or very carefully budgeted in order to graduate with no student debt. I went to the school I did because it's what my family could afford without taking out loans.

I'd probably be more sympathetic if I did have huge student loans (my friend who is now a doctor sure has loans up the wazoo). But I also think stuff like this only encourages financial irresponsibility. My doctor friend may have a lot of student debt, but she knew that going in, and now she will be in the position to pay back that money. If people think they can rack up thousands of dollars of debt and then renege on the deal, aren't we setting ourselves up for additional financial disaster? (I will caveat that the bill states there will be a cap on new debt forgiveness to keep it from getting too far out of hand.)

So what do you think?

motoLyn · March 2012

I would have to agree there with you Leia, but I think it is such a gray topic as well. I certainly could condone forgiveness for those who have true need for it, but like you mentioned I don't want to encourage financial irresponsibility. I have student loans from my undergrad, not much but some and I worked hard to keep that number low by working two jobs in college. But then on the other hand, my bestfriend has been through some really rough patches that weren't of your doing and I could definitely see that the loan forgiveness would be good for her. Its tough, in the end though I don't think the bill should be passed.

Elle1036 · March 2012

When you said this:

[QUOTE] I went to the school I did because it's what my family could afford without taking out loans.
Posted by leia1979[/QUOTE]

it really struck a chord with me. I'm the same way. I got into several more "prestigious" and more expensive schools, and made the decision I did to preserve my family's (and my future self's) financial comfort.

At the same time, though, I do want to see college made more accessible for more people. I also think the current "economic climate" (I felt like a tool just typing that phrase) kind of calls for a program like this. Those good jobs that we went to college to get just aren't as plentiful anymore, and that's not really something that could have been predicted 10 years ago.

So I guess I'm torn...

bethsmiles · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:5f518961-02b9-4702-a5d2-efe96af6e45d">student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE] But I also think stuff like this only encourages financial irresponsibility.
Posted by leia1979[/QUOTE]

This and I kind of feel bad that it's how I view it because I don't have student loans so even though I imagine it sucks I'm not in that position. But taking out high amounts of students loans to go to an expensive school is irresponsible - even if it is to do something important/responsible like getting an education. I have a friend who turned down Harvard to go to a school that offered her a full-ride. That was in no way an easy decision for her but she wanted to be financially responsible. You make decisions in life and there are consquences, it's harsh but that's the way it is.

However, I am all for finding a way to make high education more affordable.

Swazzle · March 2012

I'm the irresponsible person that didn't educate herself about debt & student loans. I chose a private school in NYC & took out loans to pay for all 4 years (plus summers). I had no idea what I was doing when it came to college & obviously chose not to find out a better way of doing things. If someone said they were forgiving what I still owe I would cry tears of joy & praise them for life.

mymissingpuzzlepiece · March 2012

I definitely think everyone should be educated about student loans before they go ahead and get them. You should be able to pay them back, and you shouldn't have a crummy job just because you know you have that student loan. However, I think people make mistakes when they are young, sometimes choosing one decision over another because they think it makes more sense but really it isn't logical at all... or maybe it is.
Also, sh!t happens. You could have planned out your payments, knowing that you have a steady job but then the next day, you've been let go. Not everything works as planned all of the time, sometimes you just screw up or you got dealt a bad hand. It is not always irresponsibility that causes students to get F'd over with loans. I think that the forgiveness sounds like a great idea, it could save a lot of people's lives.

polkadot111 · March 2012

I have lots of loans. It's not even that I was irresponsible, my parents just did not pay for my education. I worked during school and multiple jobs over the summer, but even with that I still have LOTS of students loans.

bethsmiles · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:d79336cc-3705-4c2c-a54b-c8cd7719a7a6">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]I have lots of loans. <strong>It's not even that I was irresponsible, my parents just did not pay for my education.</strong> I worked during school and multiple jobs over the summer, but even with that I still have LOTS of students loans.
Posted by polkadot111[/QUOTE]

I don't really see how that means you weren't irresponsible. I'm not saying you were but a lot of people's parents don't pay for school and not all of them have "LOTS" of debt or even any debt.

Sometimes people do get dealt a bad card in life but I really don't think that's what happened in most cases. We just live in a society that doesn't seem to want to deal with consequences.

jorja86 · March 2012

Honestly, this whole idea reeks of the overwhelming sense of entitlement kids our age seem to have. If you took out loans to go to college, for whatever reason, it is now your responsibility to PAY THEM. If you made the decision to go to med school (for example), I'm pretty sure you know what you were getting yourself into, and it's your responsibility to deal with it.

Currently, about half my income goes straight to my Dad to pay him back for college. I was lucky enough that he was able to pay my tuition up front, so that I could avoid interest payments now. I'd be out of luck, though, because I don't actually have student loans.

I could get behind a program to forgive interest, or something. I just don't think that college is something you're guaranteed. It's a right, not a privilege.

deburnin · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:dacdd27a-34fb-433d-bf0f-dc9ebde7f4b2">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm the irresponsible person that didn't educate herself about debt & student loans [...] I had no idea what I was doing when it came to college & obviously chose not to find out a better way of doing things. If someone said they were forgiving what I still owe I would cry tears of joy & praise them for life.
Posted by rdr716[/QUOTE]

<div>Yup. This is me. I'm the first person in my family to go to college. The first. No aunts, uncles, or cousins went. I was clueless. My parents were clueless. All I knew was that I had people telling me I <strong>had</strong> to go to college so I did. And I worked two jobs through out my education to "pay" for it. I say "pay" because I barely made a dent.</div><div>
</div><div>I wish that I hadn't been pressured by everyone (family, friends, teachers, society) to go to college. I was 16 when I picked my major. I was a naive dumb kid who didn't know a thing about the world. I just knew that I "had" to go to college and it was supposed to be for something that I wanted to do with my life. At the time it was write. So I have an absolutely pointless BA in Creative Writing. I don't even really write anymore. Sure I could have changed my major, but by the time I realized how pointless my major was that just meant tacking on more money that I was just starting to realize would be a huge burden.</div><div>
</div><div>I wish I hadn't gone to college. Maybe that will change in the future if I ever get a job in the field I got my masters in, but I'd be much better off right now without the ~$400/month student loan payment. Then maybe I could quit one of my three jobs. But I'm suffering for the mistakes of teenage me (who thought she was being smart not getting a credit card. Ha).</div><div>
</div><div>IMO, I wasn't irresonsible. I was uneducated. I didn't know what student loans meant. Grown-ups in my life told me to take them so I did. Does that mean my loans should be forgiven? No, but I'd still be forever grateful if they some how were.</div>

polkadot111 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:d7e9f62e-90c6-4b68-b6be-71947901cbfc">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts : I don't really see how that means you weren't irresponsible. I'm not saying you were but a lot of people's parents don't pay for school and not all of them have "LOTS" of debt or even any debt. Sometimes people do get dealt a bad card in life but I really don't think that's what happened in most cases. We just live in a society that doesn't seem to want to deal with consequences.
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I don't think it is irresponsible to have student debt in all cases. For me, I was involved in lots of other things throughout college and although I tried to pay for most of my school I could not make up the 15,000 it costs to go to school here along with living on my own (paying rent, food, bills...etc). My parents did not help me, so I was on my own. I think I'm very responsible, and am planning to pay back the debt completely in a few years. I am glad I took out the money I did because if I wouldn't have I would not have been able to support myself with my jobs if I also had to pay for all of my schooling on my own. I knew that I would need to pay it back after I graduated and thought about it before just taking out the money.
</div>

Swazzle · March 2012

Just out of curiosity for those of you who have paid off your loans or whatever: if someone had offered to forgive your loans back when you were paying them off, you seriously wouldn't have been OK with that? You would have said no way, that doesn't teach me how to be financially responsible & deal with the consequences of my actions?

polkadot111 · March 2012

Also, I'm not saying my loans should be forgiven, because I don't think that's right. I took them out with the knowledge that I would need to pay them back after graduation. But if someone said they were going to take away all of my loans I would be incredibly happy. I do not think that loans should be forgiven because that is not fair to people who did pay for school. It would be unfair. Even in my case because for the time I did spend working and trying to pay for school could have been spent doing something else (if they would have been forgiven anyways!).

bethsmiles · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:0dd37962-b0ea-49d8-bc6a-0e953f60b17a">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts <strong>: I don't think it is irresponsible to have student debt in all cases. </strong>For me, I was involved in lots of other things throughout college and although I tried to pay for most of my school I could not make up the 15,000 it costs to go to school here along with living on my own (paying rent, food, bills...etc). My parents did not help me, so I was on my own. I think I'm very responsible, and am planning to pay back the debt completely in a few years. I am glad I took out the money I did because if I wouldn't have I would not have been able to support myself with my jobs if I also had to pay for all of my schooling on my own. I knew that I would need to pay it back after I graduated and thought about it before just taking out the money.
Posted by polkadot111[/QUOTE]

I don't either. If you can pay it back and have been responsible in taking out loans that is great - it still doesn't mean they should be forgiven.

jemmini6 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:358a0e33-5387-49a5-a89f-e0c81a138f0a">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>Honestly, this whole idea reeks of the overwhelming sense of entitlement kids our age seem to have. If you took out loans to go to college, for whatever reason, it is now your responsibility to PAY THEM</strong>. If you made the decision to go to med school (for example), I'm pretty sure you know what you were getting yourself into, and it's your responsibility to deal with it. Currently, about half my income goes straight to my Dad to pay him back for college. I was lucky enough that he was able to pay my tuition up front, so that I could avoid interest payments now. I'd be out of luck, though, because I don't actually have student loans. I could get behind a program to forgive interest, or something. I just don't think that college is something you're guaranteed. It's a right, not a privilege.
Posted by jorja86[/QUOTE]

This x1000. I think we put too much pressure on kids to go to school and make it too easy to obtain obsene amount of debt to do so. College isn't for everyone, it's not necessary to do so in 4 years, and debt certainly shouldn't be available to every 18 year old willing to sign on the dotted line without knowing the true cost of paying it back. I think too many kids think that they are guarenteed to make enough money to pay it back, and we've learned in the last few years that that simply isn't the case.

I think we desperately need to institute a mandatory life skills class into high school curriculum that would teach teens about responsible debt and money management skills, but also how to weigh the cost to benefit.

The ONLY instance I would be supportive of complete debt forgiveness would be if you served the community <em>while</em> consistantly making the minimum payment on your loans for a period of 10 - 15 years or more. This would prove that you aren't just acting entitled to not having to own up to your choices.

Also, from a personal standpoint, I would literally scream if my sister's student loans got forgiven. She is so grossly irresponsible with her money and was ONE CLASS away from a degree and just dropped out (after my parents also paid a significant amount of money, in addition to her loans...while I paid for my college 100% on my own). Yeah, I'm bitter about her situation and it's completely unfair that I worked my ass off to graduate with as little debt as I could and I'm consistantly paying more than my minimum payment to get debt free. Again, this is just a personal situation, but I don't doubt that there are thousands of kids even worse than my sister and it kills me that so many of our generation feels so entitled. It gives those of us who are trying to do the right thing a bad name.

KikiMira · March 2012

I do not agree with it. I've paid for all my schooling out of pocket. Our government does have a partial forgiveness program for high demand jobs of that year. My BF said 8 years ago they forgave $20G because he had a 4.0 GPA and was in a high demand course.

jorja86 · March 2012

I'm definitely not saying that having student loans makes you irresponsible in any way. Having them, and being pissed off and expecting someone else to pay them off, or for them to be forgiven, is what's irresponsible.

Of course I'd be thrilled that someone would want to pay off my debt, of any kind, but I wouldn't get behind legislation that advocated that happening for a massive amount of people, because I think that would be ridiculous, and I think there are about 1000 ways the government could use that money.

I do think that kids in high school absolutely need to be better educated on the consequences of student loans. I think a lot of people get themselves in huge amounts of debt because they're unaware of the consequences. But, I don't think that debt should automatically be forgiven.

ravenray · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:bff90fca-32f4-4b62-9269-afedabe4b314">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]Honestly, I don't support it. I know so many people who just said "Oh well I'll take out student loans if my parents can't afford (or aren't willing) to foot the bill for me to go to an expensive school/change majors and graduate later." The bill seems fair - but all I see is an incentive for new college grads to get minimum wage jobs until the 10 years are up. And when their income is that low (up to 133% of the federal poverty level with the healthcare reform act), they'll also be eligible for Medicaid coverage, costing tax payers more money.** That makes my college-educated, student loan paying heart cry. Make the choice to get an education and don't work the system so you don't have to pay for it. **This is purely my opinion of what could happen, not a documented fact from anyone who knows real things. However, it is completely possible. I think there needs to be way more education about debt and income possibilities of career fields. Students in high school should be taught what it means to take out student loans. (ETA: They should have a class that last an entire year of high school - geared towards if they plan to go to college, trade school, or enter the work force, for example.) They should have to work full time for a year and learn to budget before going to college. I didn't know anything about student loans or debt before college (my parents didn't go to college, so they were completely helpless when I was figuring out financial aid). When I started grad school, I made the choice to take out student loans. I did my research on what were the best rates. I chose which loans to defer repayment on until I finish with my current program (I'm not paying out of pocket for classes, but with my schedule, I'm spending a lot more on food because of lack of time, and I'm just putting money aside for a large payment once my loans are back in repayment). (ETA2: These are subsidized loans, so they aren't earning interest. Sidenote: This is something I didn't know before I graduated. That's sad.) I'm not expecting anyone to come pay my loans for me, and I don't think other people should either. I know way too many people who are in so much debt because they just didn't want to work in college, so they took out extra personal loans instead.
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with everything Yaga said and the part Beth said about this being a society who doesn't like to deal with the consequences.
I will have to take out student loans most likely. As it is my parents make way to much money for me to even get any aid when it comes to going to school. I think after FI and I get married we will be eligible but I am not sure. However I do know that my FI (also one of the first in his family to go to college) will look around at loans and do his research. But on the other hand if I didn't have FI I doubt I would do the research because I am not good at that so without FI I might have been screwed too lol.
I think having a class to help people understand the difference in loans would be really helpful for kids and parents. People don't know and they do deserve to be able to find out that knowledge. Just my two cents though.</p>

[Deleted User] · March 2012

my H is that person, too, rdr. he really regrets it but he's determined to pay them back. we're on track to get $40,000 in loans paid back in 5-ish years. we put more towards the loans each month than we pay for our mortgage/PMI/HOA/property taxes combined. he's already talking to his 3 younger brothers about NOT taking out loans like he did (he took them out for living expenses, everything, not just tuition). hopefully they listen.

I also agree about no accountability in our world.

I also agree about a life skills/money management class that deals with college, loans, etc. it's not just loans, it's financial responsibility in general. I can't tell you how many people my age I meet that can't keep a checkbook ledger or make a balanced budget that makes sense. it's so sad!

Swazzle · March 2012

I had posted something like this last night but apparently TK got hungry...

I'm curious as to whether those of you who have paid off all of your loans already would have accepted someone offering to forgive them at the time? Would you have told them no, that doesn't teach you financial responsibility & accountability for your actions? Same questions to those of you who are currently paying your loans but are against the forgiveness.

When I took out my loans the only person I expected to pay them back was myself. Since I graduated I've paid over $30,000 towards my loans -- by myself. I'm not saying that I expect(ed) someone to take care of my loans but I am saying I wouldn't mind it one bit if they were forgiven.

mmw&lmd · March 2012

I've been working and putting myself through school. I haven't had to take any studen tloans, thank goodness. My BF is now going back to school and cannot afford the cost, so will likely have to take a student loan. So I'll be paying attention to how this pans out...

[Deleted User] · March 2012

we would be thrilled if the loans were forgiven, but we don't expect it at all. it is what it is, you know?

cu97tiger · March 2012

I'm with rdr. If they forgave my $55,000+ in loans, I'd be obliviously happy. At the same time, I fully expect to pay them back myself, so having them forgiven would just be an unexpected gift.

I understand what you all are saying about the lack of education about what taking out these loans mean. I've already paid back over $20,000 (undergrad loans plus some of my grad loan), but I really did not understand the consequences of keeping that extra $4,000 my senior year that I probably should have sent back. I worked two or three jobs all throughout college, but I never really understood what it meant to 'live within your means.' I blame credit cards for that (and being ignorant).

Also, keep in mind that one of the reasons this bill is on the table is because forgiving this student loan debt would enable thousands (millions?) of people to increase their spending power. At a time when the economy is in the crapper, giving people more spending power is a great way to get the economy back on track. This isn't (completely) about removing consequences, it's about the long-term health of the US economy.

DanieKA · March 2012

I'll be the voice of the other side. Well not completely. I wholeheartedly AGREE with a few points this brings up. In a nutshell the interest rates. Like an aspect of predatory lending where your rate starts out reasonable and manageable then inexplicably doubles, triples, and quadruples making payments d@mn near impossible to make, I am all for having a fixed, low interest rate for the life of the loan.

I also agree with graduates that go into public service having their loans forgiven after a certain amount of time. That's actually in place for some professions now, like my current one. I took out loans to pay for law school. I intend to pay them back, in full, any way I can. If I end up in the public sector. My income would allow me to pay back my loans in full over the course of maybe 40 years. Do I think it's awesome that they forgive at 10 if you work in the public sector, like being a city or county attorney, or work for the gov. Yup. I think that encouraging graduates to work in public service, which is inherently underpaid, and give back to their communities. I DON'T think going into the public sector feeds the entitlement generation that I do think is a problem now. I think knowing you are going into a low paying, usually thankless profession for a long haul is honorable. I don't think people that choose to do this are like, "FREE RIDE! WHERE'S MY FORGIVENESS, YO?!?!?!" They know they will be doing public work. They know it's low paying so they won't be making dolla, dolla bills. Forgiveness in this way makes sense to me. I'd love for people who want to be teachers, firefighters, or doctors who commit a certain number of years to inner city hospitals to be able to have loans forgiven.

But do I think this is a good program for all, no matter what. No way. Like most Bills it's got a ways to go, but there are some things in there that I would love to see take place.

lennonkdc · March 2012

I took out nearly $140,000 in loans to pay for Law School and my undergrad degree. I was told time and time again, by the school, by my parents, by other lawyers I knew- that every dime in loans was worth it. It was an investment in myself, and as a lawyer I would be able to pay it back painlessly. In fact, if I spent 10 years in public service, say, as a prosecutor, my loans would be forgiven.

I started Law school one year before the economy started to tank, and by the time the legal profession saw just how deep the rabbit hole went, I was getting my diploma. Due to budget cuts at all levels, that prosecutor's job I had been working so hard for (worked as a clerk for 2 years, interned at our county's office) is a long shot. Private firms aren't hiring people from 'state' schools when the market is flooded with people from private law schools.

So I work 2 jobs, 7 days a week. One is legal but pays less then $200 a week but hey, I'm gaining experience, they other as a hostess. I've applied for non-legal jobs and have been told my JD makes me 'over qualified'. I worked hard, got good grades, and wanted nothing more then a job that would let me serve the public, pay back my loans, and maybe buy a modest house and a car that isn't 12 years old. And the worst part is that these loans are NEVER dischargeable in bankruptcy. So until the market gets better, I'm stuck.

So, yeah- if someone wants to help me out- I'll take it. I'd prefer that the $$ for a bailout went into a stimulus to create jobs so I could work and pay my loans off. But if not, I'll take any port in the storm.

DanieKA · March 2012

I also think, like Elle said, there needs to be a discussion in tandem about making education more affordable. Sure, everyone who can't afford to pay for law school or medical school could just not go and start working instead. But then you leave these careers to people who are rich and already elite. Maybe the answer is scholarships. Or maybe the answer is income based tuition as opposed to standard tuition for all students. But I refuse to say that just because someone is poor and has to take out loans to become a doctor or a lawyer that they just shouldn't have done that and just shouldn't be a doctor or lawyer if it's "financially irresponsible" (in whose eyes?)

And I choose those two career because you will hardly find a law school or a med school that will run you less than $80,000. (not saying it can't be done, but c'mon...it's not common). It's NOT the same as undergraduate where you can get a good education at a state school as opposed to harvard or yale undergrad. Any ABA-Approved law school, even if you are in-state, even if you live at home and work part-time (I know in full time law school programs at all ABA-approved schools, there is a cap on the amount of time you can work outside of school. ABA rule=20 hrs a week work cap for any student taking more than 12 hours of course work), is going to cost you a pretty penny. So it's not as if ALL of the kids are lazy @sses and choose not to work through school.

And I don't think professions like doctors or lawyers should be reserved for the wealthy. Especially when the hardship and perspective of someone who didn't grow up like that could be just what the profession needs.

Swazzle · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:1b5a35f0-89c8-48fb-ae8d-83bd4a24361d">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]I also think, like Elle said, there needs to be a discussion in tandem about making education more affordable. <strong>Sure, everyone who can't afford to pay for law school or medical school could just not go and start working instead. But then you leave these careers to people who are rich and already elite. Maybe the answer is scholarships. Or maybe the answer is income based tuition as opposed to standard tuition for all students. But I refuse to say that just because someone is poor and has to take out loans to become a doctor or a lawyer that they just shouldn't have done that and just shouldn't be a doctor or lawyer if it's "financially irresponsible" (in whose eyes?)</strong> And I choose those two career because you will hardly find a law school or a med school that will run you less than $80,000. (not saying it can't be done, but c'mon...it's not common). It's NOT the same as undergraduate where you can get a good education at a state school as opposed to harvard or yale undergrad. Any ABA-Approved law school, even if you are in-state, even if you live at home and work part-time (I know in full time law school programs at all ABA-approved schools, there is a cap on the amount of time you can work outside of school. ABA rule=20 hrs a week work cap for any student taking more than 12 hours of course work), is going to cost you a pretty penny. So it's not as if ALL of the kids are lazy @sses and choose not to work through school. And I don't think professions like doctors or lawyers should be reserved for the wealthy. Especially when the hardship and perspective of someone who didn't grow up like that could be just what the profession needs.
Posted by DanieKA[/QUOTE]

<div>I completely, 100% agree with all of this. </div>

bethsmiles · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:399f0458-2f21-40bd-81d9-57aa45edffef">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]I'd love it if my loans were paid off, or if someone would just pay off the rest of my mortgage. But it's ridiculous to enter into a financial contract with the expectation to pay the bare minimum for 10 years, and then it just goes away. I think what bothers me is the sense of entitlement, as other people have said here. "Well I had to take out loans to go to college, and that's NOT FAIR, so I shouldn't have to pay back my loans." I feel bad for people who took out loans not knowing that they wouldn't get a well-paying job after college, I really do. But there are also people who went to state schools, took on part time jobs during school, and worked at sucky jobs after graduating to pay off their loans. I don't think enough people did that, which is why I think that all this loan money that the government will be paying back will be better spent on creating a way to educate high school students on real life situations. I think it would be great if a gap year was strongly encouraged for students, where they would work in real life environments while also dealing with personal finances for the first time (the point being that they'd get a salary or stipend for working). I'd rather my money go towards that than someone who made the decision to take out $100,000 in student loans because they couldn't figure out what major they wanted to take and would rather hang out at the bar than work to have money for living expenses. I think I wouldn't have an issue with this petition if it wasn't forgiving 100% of loans for people who are currently paying them back. The cap of $42,000 for new borrowers seems reasonable, but I still think there should be more to earn loan forgiveness than just paying back 10% each month. Like someone mentioned - working for the public sector or something like that should be required before we (as taxpayers) pay your loans for you. There are programs like that right now, also. <strong>If you go into the Peace Corp, if you are a nurse (I think you may need to work in underserved regions), if you are a doctor, nurse practitioner, or PA in an underserved area, etc - these are all ways to get some of your loans forgiven because you're sacrificing your livelihood to help others. </strong>
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]

That's what BF's sister's plan is.

And also, Yaga bringing up that there are programs like this already (which I knew I just forgot) makes me evern more against this.

leia1979 · March 2012

I think the better plan is making education more affordable in the first place rather than forgiving loans. I also better prefer qualifications like you would be eligible by working in public service in an underserved region.

There was something like that once in California. If you taught for X number of years in a place where it was hard to keep teachers, you could get money for school.

I was fortunate that a large part of my school tuition was paid by the state via the CalGrant program. While that program still exists, the grant amounts are far lower now than when I went to school. I think restoring programs like this would allow more students to graduate with less debt, making loan forgiveness unnecessary.

DanieKA · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:be69d934-3e5c-4c32-86f1-26e14c12cc2e">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]I would be curious to know if there is a significant correlation between people's opinions on this matter, and their own student debt, economic background, and projected income for their career.
Posted by polo1425[/QUOTE]

<div>Haha! Good call. I will openly admit that I have huge law school debt. I knew I was going to have the debt going in. I could have stayed at my dead end customer service job, making $28,000/year with no growth potential, but I wanted to be a lawyer. I always have (well, lawyer and writer. I want to be John Grisham.) I also plan to go into public work (I work in the pub sector now, but as a contractor. The jobs...they are tough to find). But not because of loan forgiveness, but because I firmly believe at the root of my soul that everyone deserves a good defense. So I made up my mind that I wanted to be a public defender. It's certainly not glamorous work. It's not something that's going to get me elected into pub. office (most people with an eye towards public office become prosecutors. Tough on crime and all that. I defend criminal-and innocent people. Not the perception to run for governor or anything). </div><div>
</div><div>I wouldn't give up my education for anything. Was it expensive? Hell yes. Did I know going in? Hell yes. Could I have chosen something different? I suppose so, but I believe my lifelong service will speak for itself and that I in no way was ever looking for a handout or a free ride. </div><div>
</div><div>I should note that I had no debt going into law school (no undegrad) and aside from mortgage and student loans, I have no debt now (do we count my $300 target credit card? If so, I have law school, plus mortgage, plus $300 in debt then). I work hard. In the public sector. For people who don't often have an advocate. I don't <em>EXPECT</em> anything. But I'm awfully appreciative that it's there. </div>

deburnin · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_student-loan-forgiveness-your-thoughts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a7c8ebae-2aad-4dee-9721-3799ae103802Post:15b48650-0737-4314-b8fc-71d6b480af33">Re: student loan forgiveness - your thoughts</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I think the better plan is making education more affordable in the first place rather than forgiving loans.</strong> I also better prefer qualifications like you would be eligible by working in public service in an underserved region. There was something like that once in California. If you taught for X number of years in a place where it was hard to keep teachers, you could get money for school. I was fortunate that a large part of my school tuition was paid by the state via the CalGrant program. While that program still exists, the grant amounts are far lower now than when I went to school. I think restoring programs like this would allow more students to graduate with less debt, making loan forgiveness unnecessary.
Posted by leia1979[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree that making college more affordable is a very needed step. IMO, higher education should not just be something for the wealthy. At the same time changing costs of college does not help those that have already graduated. And sometimes neither do the loan forgiveness programs that are already in place. There's loan forgiveness for those working in public libraries, but you have to be working full time in the field for ten years. Ha, good luck. In my area they're replacing retiring full timers with part timers or just not hiring to fill the position at all. Sure I could try moving, but then FI would lose a job he loves or I'd be moving on my own, and I'm not willing to live states apart.</div><div>
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student loan forgiveness - your thoughts

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