Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides

smahama · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:19bb3722-f5e2-4596-93bf-effe57ca7fe3">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : I usually ignore accusations of trolling, because it's juvenile and rude, but I'm starting to get annoyed. When the f*ck did it become trolling to discuss uncomfortable issues? UGH! In my circles, we frequently have open debate and discussion about sociological and political issues. Perhaps that's because we all have 7+ years of education beyond high school, but even high school graduates can engage in thought-provoking and stimulating conversation. It does not equate trolling. If you aren't intelligent or interesting enough to have thoughtful conversation about unusual or controversial subjects, it doesn't make everyone else a troll. In short, get off my back.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

<div>Jesus. You are SO pretentious. </div>

artbyallie · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:a34e9443-1cb9-433d-beac-eb8cefe0c80c">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : It seemed like a very extreme, offensive extrapolation.
Posted by Gabrielle76[/QUOTE]

<div>Ditto. And thus my point about talking to a brick wall. OP, you clearly don't need us for this conversation, given how many of the things you're responding to were not actually even said by anyone. For someone with so much supposed education, you seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension.</div><div>
</div><div>I am a Christian, by the way. And I don't 'submit' to my husband. We work together. As do most Christian couples I know. So don't lump us in with, say, Fundamentalists. That's pretty narrow-minded.</div>

saacjw · February 2012

As a feminist, I have decided to adhere to certain traditions in my wedding that may have sexist origins. Some of that is because of family traditions, some is related to the service in my church, which is very traditional (read old), despite the fact theat the church docterine itself is very progressive (I grew up with a female priest, a gay bishop, and the complete understanding that everyone was on equal ground) so I find your example of "good Christian soldiers" extreme.

Traditions I'm adhering to, regardless of sexist original intent (some of these have multiple origins):

Wearing a veil- don't want him to see me and balk

Wearing a white dress, with corset- purity! (I realize that this wasn't the original meaning, but it has certainly become that) movement restriction! feminine ideal form!

Having my dad and step dad walk me down the aisle- property exchange!

Having a best man- has to help FI kidnap me and force me into marriage

Placing the groom on the right side of the alter- has to defend me from other suitors and angry family you know

Ring exchange- literal symbol of my new ownership!

Not wearing pearls- no tears in marriage because it's totally luck if you're happy and have no say.

I realize I might be taking these to the extreme, but so much of the traditional wedding has it's origins elsewhere that by the logic of "it's sexist" we should scrap the whole thing. Which is fine if you want to do so, but I like the traditions of my family and my religion.

MyNameIsNot · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:e1ccb976-fcc1-48b7-9228-753c70677eb7">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : Um, you're right. No one said any of those things. It was a hypothetical example used to illustrate the concept of taking "feminist choice" to an extreme.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

<div>No, it was overexaggeration to fuel the fire and insult people that don't agree with you. </div>

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

Goodness. I really tried to be open minded about you, OP... but you're coming across as a pretentious college student who has made it her god-given duty to enlighten the masses. You're annoying. I'm not saying your discussion isn't worth it, but you need a better approach and to be a bit more open minded and bit less "THINK LIKE ME OR YOU'RE DUUUUUUUMB!"

I'll be off making Christion soldiers now. Apparently that's what I do... or something.

redheadfsu · February 2012

VegasCalling,

I don't know if you realize how harsh you sound. While I tend to agree with most of your points, your tone/ your wording is very offensive and off-putting. You remind me of my 18 year old self. This thread reminds me of what is wrong with how people talk to each other theses days (like in politics)...People get so passionate about their position that they don't care about offending people. But by offending people you actually lose.

And no one attacked you...sounds like you can dish it, but can't take it.

em01092 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:aaa8c37b-270f-48bb-989f-092fec0a1093">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>em and laura, what if the women receiving those invitations want to be addressed as such?</strong> Making that choice for them is just as presumptious as other people addressing you as Mrs. John Smith. Two wrongs don't make a right. vegas, what if the man chooses not to continue with schooling? Is he antifeminist? Or are just women who choose to discontinue schooling antifeminists?
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>....Oh well? I addressed all of my wedding invitations to Mr. and Mrs. Smith. That may not be as formal or whatever, but it's not wrong, and it didn't make me cringe as I was writing it. I also could have just done Sarah and Joe Smith, which also would not have been incorrect in terms of addressing the couple. </div><div>
</div><div>One of my BMs has all of her invitations names/addresses in Excel as Mr. and Mrs. Scott Smith. Did I say anything? No. Like I said, it's something I'm going to be dealing with my entire life. </div>

rlavach · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:19dd4d41-1dc4-4102-ab17-087d9417d19f">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : No, it was overexaggeration to fuel the fire and insult people that don't agree with you.
Posted by MyNameIsNot[/QUOTE]
Exactly.<div>
</div><div>The type of women you described are a rare breed in 2012. For those that chose that life, more power to them. While I will not be procreating Christian soldiers, I will be abiding by some of your illustration. Not because I'm a feeble minded little girl, but because that is my choice and my desire. My choice makes no impact in your life, so it truly is irrelevant...just like this entire thread.</div>

jemmini6 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:2862f8a0-6134-4102-baed-f7deb4c2824a">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]VegasCalling, I don't know if you realize how harsh you sound. <strong>While I tend to agree with most of your points, your tone/ your wording is very offensive and off-putting.</strong> You remind me of my 18 year old self. This thread reminds me of what is wrong with how people talk to each other theses days (like in politics)...People get so passionate about their position that they don't care about offending people. But by offending people you actually lose. And no one attacked you...sounds like you can dish it, but can't take it.
Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

This exactly. I agree that there are some wedding traditions that I find to be overly sexist, and I didn't incorporate them into my own wedding because of it, but you come off like such a pretentious know-it-all that I find myself NOT wanting to agree with you for fear of being lumped into the same category as you.

I think the biggest issue I had with your statements isn't the sexism debate and what it means, it's the fact that you are using your level of education as saying that <em>that's</em> the reason you are so 'enlightened' and that anyone with less education than you is obviously a moron incapable of determining what feminism and equal rights are. As I said before, education /=/ intelligence and by flat our flaunting your education makes me assume that you lack actual intelligence. Most intelligent people don't need to back up their opinion with how many degrees they have...

MyNameIsNot · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:beacc240-c8fd-496c-9e82-6220b6a719c6">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : This exactly. I agree that there are some wedding traditions that I find to be overly sexist, and I didn't incorporate them into my own wedding because of it, but you come off like such a pretentious know-it-all that I<strong> find myself NOT wanting to agree with you for fear of being lumped into the same category as you</strong>. I think the biggest issue I had with your statements isn't the sexism debate and what it means, it's the fact that you are using your level of education as saying that that's the reason you are so 'enlightened' and that anyone with less education than you is obviously a moron incapable of determining what feminism and equal rights are. As I said before, education /=/ intelligence and by flat our flaunting your education makes me assume that you lack actual intelligence. Most intelligent people don't need to back up their opinion with how many degrees they have...
Posted by jemmini6[/QUOTE]

<div>This is exactly how I feel. </div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>Also, since I have 7+ years of higher education, I think I'm qualified to say that you are obnoxious. </div>

TiffannieF · February 2012

Amen sisters!

zitiqueen · February 2012

You've heard the phrase "educated beyond their intelligence"?

VegasCalling, you are a textbook example.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:c84687cf-a40c-4948-93cb-1592f8cced0c">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : Exactly. The type of women you described are a rare breed in 2012. For those that chose that life, more power to them. While I will not be procreating Christian soldiers, I will be abiding by some of your illustration. Not because I'm a feeble minded little girl, but because that is my choice and my desire. <strong>My choice makes no impact in your life, so it truly is irrelevant</strong>...just like this entire thread.
Posted by rlavach[/QUOTE]

People choosing traditional and/or patriarchal lifestyles actually does impact society as a whole. Think about how hard it is to destroy some gender stereotypes or traditional roles. I'm not criticizing any choices you make, because that's your right, and I don't actually know the exact choices you are making, but it's naive to say that choices don't affect others.

For example, many women who work at companies with generous maternity leave policies decide to take maternity leave, pretend they will be returning to work, and then inform their employers at the end of their leave that they have decided to quit and be a SAHM. This may 100% be the best choice for these women and for their families. Additionally, they reap the benefit of the employer's leave policy, which might include paid time off, health care coverage, short term disability, whatever. However, the employer is likely to not be thrilled with someone taking advantage of those benefits and not returning to the company. The employer may, in fact, decide to recind those benefits in the future, which is detrumental to other women who work for the company and would like those benefits.

This is what I was talking about before when I was discussing how choices are your right, and might be right for your family, but aren't necessarily "feminist" choices. In this instance, doing something like this reinforced the stereotype that women who have children will just quit their jobs, often without notice, meaning that employers feel less desire to give women of childbearing age positions of importance, or raises commesurate with their male peers, or flexible schedules which would allow for better family balance. Something like that hurts women as a gender on the whole, even if it's the right choice for you.

Simply Fated · February 2012

^ I think she was talking about women choosing to be a stay-at-home mom... not someone who screws their company over before doing so. I think you're example, though very realistic (I know someone who did something similar), is a bit extreme for what rlavach meant.
Both are choices, but the woman who made the choice to just be a stay-at-home mom shouldn't be thought of as inferior or held on the same level just because another woman particpated in shady dealings.

kimiandgary · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:673b9405-99ca-4703-bb79-fc5584d44fb9">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree with PP. My FI asked my dad for permission to marry me, and I loved that. I think it shows respect to the man that raised me. And my dad will walk me down the aisle too. I don't think of it as sexist at all. To me it is something that a father (at least mine) looks forward to, and it is an honor. He is blessing and accepting my marriage to my FI and I wouldn't want it any other way! IMO I think some traditions should stay but I see more and more of them lacking, but to each their own.
Posted by caterpillar85[/QUOTE]
100%

housewifehobbiest · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:0f1efae2-233d-46eb-bf6d-e4f09c2b4aa6">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, I am absolutely dreading being referred to as "Mrs. Scott HisLastName." We are asking the preacher not to say this after the ceremony ( I now pronounce you...). I have my own first name., I don't need to be referred to by his. I know most people don't care, and I have to get over it because we will receive mail like this, but it irks me. This DOES make it seem like I have no indentity other than my FI's/H's wife, though I know it's not true. I wish this one would die, but it probably won't.
Posted by em01092[/QUOTE]

TBH this does bother me, and I will not be addressed as Mrs. HISFIRST HISLAST NAME. I think this one is dying, thank god.

VegasCalling · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:7ddbb5ae-8dd9-403e-b4d5-d80c19b4a5dc">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]You've heard the phrase "educated beyond their intelligence"? VegasCalling , you are a textbook example.
Posted by zitiqueen[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>OOooo, a "you're stupid" post. How mature. And interesting. Zzzz</div>

VegasCalling · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:0d244858-1062-4317-854d-33fb4bb95a0f">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok, we all get it. You like "discussion." You like to throw flame-bait out just so you can justify whatever it is you're doing by telling everyone who gives you an opinion that they are wrong and you are right. Good for you. To me, that is trolling. I'm not saying you are a troll, I am saying that you tend to engage in trollish behavior. Maybe if you became involved in discussions instead of always starting a new thread with some "shock me, shock me, shock me, with that deviant behavior" then people would want to have a discussion with you. You start off adversarial, not like you want to have a real discussion, and no matter how educated you may be, I find that pretty immature [/QUOTE] <div>If you consider it trollish to post a discussion about sexist wedding traditions in the (gasp!) "Customs and Traditions" board, I would have to disagree. I think you are just offended because it's an uncomfortable subject. That doesn't make it trollish. And I don't see anything particularly inflamatory about the WAY I started the discussion either. </div><div>
</div><div>[QUOTE] Also, while you wanting to lose that much weight in a relatively short period of time is your choice , as someone who doesn't know you, I might wonder if you were doing this to satisfy both the outward and the inward "male gaze" that makes so many women in society feel as though they are not worth as much if they don't live up to certian expectations. I highly recommend the book "Fat is a Feminist Issue." [/QUOTE]</div><div>Uhh, have you considered that I actually <em>need </em>to lose that amount of weight? I don't care what anyone says on this website, 10 pounds a month is <em>not extreme </em>weight loss. My doctor doesn't consider it extreme, and I've never had a doctor or weight loss consultant who expressed that 10 pounds a month is extreme. The wedding was finally a reason to put the fork down. As far as "why" I want to lose weight before the wedding (other than for health): the answer is, I really don't think very many women want to look like a tank on their wedding day, and neither do I. </div><div>[QUOTE] And, because this just made me roll my eyes, so you have a male attendant and believe in gay marriage as a right. Whoop-di-do. So do a great many people on this website. Did you want some sort of pat on the head for being a trail-blazer, if so, you're a little late to that party.</div><div>Posted by divinemsbee[/QUOTE]

</div><div>Yeah, you really need to go back and read my post on that again. I DIDN'T POST THE GAY ATTENDANT FACT TO COME ACROSS AS A TRAIL BLAZER. If you read the post you would see that I was defending the recent discussions I've posted about on these boards and showing that none of the topics I've posted about are extreme or trollish. So basically I was doing exactly OPPOSITE of what you are accusing me of here in the aforementioned quote. </div>

Tandra&Devin · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:0f1efae2-233d-46eb-bf6d-e4f09c2b4aa6">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, I am absolutely dreading being referred to as "Mrs. Scott HisLastName." We are asking the preacher not to say this after the ceremony ( I now pronounce you...).<strong> I have my own first name., I don't need to be referred to by his.</strong> I know most people don't care, and I have to get over it because we will receive mail like this, but it irks me. This DOES make it seem like I have no indentity other than my FI's/H's wife, though I know it's not true. I wish this one would die, but it probably won't.
Posted by em01092[/QUOTE]

Finally, someone else who sees a problem with this. I have no problem whatsoever taking my FI's last name. To me, a last name is just a signifier of community, of a social unit. Throughout history, it wasn't uncommon for a whole group of unrelated people to go by the same name, such as Indian tribes or Scottish clans, so changing my last name to me just signifies a shift in community. My first name, however, is unique to me and I plan to guard it. I will become Mrs. Tandra Griffiths, <strong>not </strong>Mrs. Devin Griffiths. "Tandra Griffiths" isn't a catch-all identity that could be applied to anyone, like "Mrs. Devin...."

As far as being walked down the aisle, I agree with most of the PPs and see it just as a way to honor my parents. Both my father and mother will be escorting me down the aisle. They loved me and cared for me when I couldn't take care of myself, and their taking me to be with a new person who will do the same thing. Someone who loves me and will support me and care for me if need be.

We're doing similar things for FI's mother and my two living grandmothers. If I learned anything in my schooling at a very liberal all-female college, the best way to combat sexism is to take its old customs and make them your own.

Tandra&Devin · February 2012

FWIW, I do agree with the whole "losing weight" thing on your behalf, VegasCalling. I don't think being a photoshopped stick is anything to want to be, but God did not give me the love handles I have now. I and a large army of Oreo cookies and mcnuggets are responsible for those. I'm shooting for a medically healthy weight of 130lbs. The fact that I have a freakin' FABULOUS dress to be photographically immortalized in was my motivation, and better now when I'm barely 23 and can reverse the damage than when I'm 40-something with decades of bad habits to combat.

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:37995271-1047-4dca-a56c-6cc6a3cf0943">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : If you consider it trollish to post a discussion about sexist wedding traditions in the (gasp!) "Customs and Traditions" board, I would have to disagree.<strong> I think you are just offended because it's an uncomfortable subject</strong>. That doesn't make it trollish. And I don't see anything particularly inflamatory about the WAY I started the discussion either.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

That confuses me. It's <em>not</em> an uncomfortable subject. Tons of wedding traditions have sexist origins, and could still be seen as sexist by people who are very strongly and strictly feminist. We realize it, we just don't care. We are offended by your implication that it makes us ignorant or stupid.

I think you would have gotten more of the type of discussion you wanted if you had started by saying "I've just been noticing how many wedding traditions seem sexist, like being given away by your dad. I'm a feminist, and it's really been bothering me. How do you all feel about traditions like that?"

redheadfsu · February 2012

The topic isn't offensive. We have these discussions all the time. LURK! Again Vegas it is your tone. I agree with your points but HOW you word things is offensive. I hope to gosh you don't act like this in real life. I agree with you but I really want to type something really bitchy just to piss you off because you are rude.

LauraChristin · February 2012

OP, are you wearing an engagement ring? Is your FI?

rlavach · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:c3dbabdd-dd17-4a2a-a464-7ff396ce8b46">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]^ I think she was talking about women choosing to be a stay-at-home mom... not someone who screws their company over before doing so. I think you're example, though very realistic (I know someone who did something similar), is a bit extreme for what rlavach meant. Both are choices, but the woman who made the choice to just be a stay-at-home mom shouldn't be thought of as inferior or held on the same level just because another woman particpated in shady dealings.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]
Thank you, Simply Fated. While I agree that it is an abuse of benefits for a new mom to use employee benefits and then just stay home, that is far beyond what I was speaking about.

zitiqueen · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:1f5191f5-2c55-48fd-a5ff-4b5cac0715ae">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : OOooo, a "you're stupid" post. How mature. And interesting. Zzzz
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

It's funny that you think mine was the first post in this thread to point out that education =/= intelligence.

MarissaY · February 2012

This idea DID bother me - I personally identify as a feminist and there are a lot of bridal traditions I eschewed because of their overwhelmingly patriarchial overtones. I love my husband and I see our marriage as a partnership of equals, so we just made it about our love and our relationship rather than a celebration of traditions neither of us really cared for.

That said, I walked down the aisle by myself. I asked my mom if she WANTED to walk me down, and she pretty much said, "Why? You're the one who got you to where you are today. You're strong and independent and that's why *husband* loves you. Be proud of that." So I was. And I rocked that aisle.

Squishy'sGal · February 2012

So then you shouldn't want a great big expensive ring which grew from the days when a man would kidnap his bride and shackle her around the waist inside his home so she wouldn't escape.

Look, many of these things came from ancient traditions and some of it is even from myth. As time passes new meaning is given to many traditions.

The white dress was a sign of purity, now it's just the traditional color (blue used to be the traditional color, to be more like the Blessed Mother).

The honeymoon used to last a whole month (from new moon to new moon) and you were supposed to stay holed up in your husband's home and make a baby.

The traditional wedding march comes from an opera where the "bride" is kinapped and raped by the "groom" during the song.

I think it's ridiculous that women get upset over stuff like this. If you don't like the traditions, don't do them but don't judge others who want to do these things that have lost the negative connotation generations, even centuries ago.

Squishy'sGal · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:43640855-4d9e-4603-b2e0-1f75da2504d4">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : Historically yes, it was because the woman essentially became the man's property, and most predominant European cultures were/are patriarchal, but no one views it like that anymore. Church and government record keeping was done through the man's last name. Plenty of societies, such as Native American tribes, were actually more matriarchal in nature but I can't really speak on their name traditions or how they distinguished themselves.
Posted by em01092[/QUOTE]

<div>It's funny, in Korea, women traditionally don't take the husband's name because they don't have the bloodline. I spoke with a woman from Korea who's daughter is in my son's class and she says they see it as offensive that the groom's family won't accept them as part of the family because they don't share blood. So go figure that.</div>

divinemsbee · February 2012

This has gone on longer than I thought, and I do feel as though some really interesting discussion has been had, which I've really enjoyed.

Redhead and Merry-You are both awesome and have been saying the things I've been trying to say in much more concise ways, thank you.

It's about tone. If you had posted a question and a few examples of things that make you feel uncomfortable because of their implications and seeming capitulation to the patriarchy, then I feel as though we could have had much of the same discussion, without the drama. But you didn't. You couched what you wanted to discuss in very flame-bait terms. You came in here, guns blazing, like you just got out of Women's and Gender Studies 301. That's cool, but there are a lot of women on here who have taken that same class. We get it. But you don't have to be adversarial to make a point. I'm not uncomfortable with the subject, otherwise I would have just left or posted something totally reactionary. It's your tone, they way you come across.

As far as the weight thing goes, I get losing weight for health. I've been doing some of that myself for almost a year now. I just have never been told by anyone that over 1-2 pounds a week is considered healthy, but if your doctor says that, by all means, I'm sure he or she knows more than I do. My point with that is that you say you don't want to look like a tank on your wedding day. I don't either. And that's okay. But how we look, not our health, and what society considers beautiful, is a large part of discussions about feminism and the "male gaze," and I felt as though you had left a valid opening to discuss this topic.

I agree with a good bit of what you're putting down, but the way you put it down just rubs everyone the wrong way. You come off as though the way you think and what you know is going to be some huge revelation to the wee ladies of The Knot. It isn't, things like this are discussed all the time. If you wanted to continue or start a new discussion about it, fantastic, but you are not Moses come down from the mountain with the new tablets of feminism.

divinemsbee · February 2012

I sympathized with you when you posted about how the majority of your and your FI's family weren't going to be able to make it to your wedding because it was in Vegas. I'm in a somewhat similar situation, and I get how much that sucks. That was not a trollish post at all, and the reason that I'm saying I know you're not a troll. You put it up as a vent, realized that you were being a little silly but you had total cause to feel a bit hurt, and all of the advice was generally good.

Also, you said that you haven't posted anything trollish or extreme, but you were on the E board the other day talking about how you were inviting the majority of your friends using Facebook and how you had been posting all of your wedding stuff on there. And not even using a FB group for the purpose, but pretty much saying "the more the merrier." You knew, when you posted it, what kind of response you would get because you posted a poll pretty much saying you knew it was tacky. That was more than a little flame-bait-y/trollish. You knew that the E board would say it was tacky and that you were setting yourself up for a world of chaos, but you didn't care. It definitely seemed like you posted that just to justify yourself and get attention, knowing that it was a bad idea. Trollish behavior.

Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides

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