The Chalice

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

Since we've talked a lot about Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist and the distribution of communion, I thought you would be interested in the new policy released by the Diocese of Phoenix this week:

Distribution of Communion Clicky

Of course people are really divided on the issue. I found out at a friends event where most of the people were fairly "liberal" (still hate the politicization of the term) Catholics who are displeased with the Bishop generally, so they were up in arms. I was surprised, but believe I owe my Bishop prayerful consideration of the change before I freak out about it. Besides, I know that lots of very orthodox thinkers agree with this interpretation of things.

The official reason for the change is not the use of EMEs, but I cannot help but see it as an underlying cause/piece of the puzzle.

Thoughts? Opinions? Debate? Go!

[Deleted User] · September 2011

I saw this story on my phone a few days ago.

Hope61 · September 2011

I think it mut be an overall good. First of all, it should be emphasized that nothing is being taken away--you receive the fullness of the Body and Blood of Our Lord in either form. Also, as the letter said, apparently the US churches aren't supposed to be distributing both body and blood, so its a nice step towards closer union with Rome.

From what I've seen, the Precious Blood is the form that is most often irreverenced (is that a word?). People joke about drinking wine at church, the EMHCs/EMEs who "get to finish off the wine", etc. People don't seem to remember that its the Blood of Christ as easily as they remember that the host is the Body of Christ. So maybe this will increase overall proper respect to the Eucharist.

Meg1036 · September 2011

This doesn't bother me. I grew up in a church where only the bread was distributed on a regular basis, so I rarely take the wine when it is offered (which is, at any parish I have attended since then, every week). At the church I grew up in, we were always taught that receiving either the bread or the wine is the full sacrament with all of the graces involved, so to be honest, I never actually understood the need to take both.

caitriona87 · September 2011

I have a hard time understanding the opposition to it. First of all, it's adopting a *universal* norm of the Church, issued by the Holy See. The Bishop absolutely can't be faulted for that, that's what he's supposed to do--make sure his diocese is in conformity with Rome and the universal Church. We had temporary permission for something which has now expired--it was never a mandate or a "right" of some sort.

I go to TLM half or more of the time, so I'm not used to receiving from the chalice anyway, and I know I've said before that I'm not a fan of huge numbers of EMHC's. I have no idea whether that had anything to do with the Bishop's decision here but I think that, especially in light of this instruction from Rome, having both species isn't a sufficient reason to employ such numbers (as I normally see, at least--not being anywhere near Phoenix.)

lalaith50 · September 2011

I also have a hard time understanding the opposition. I personally almost never receive from the chalice, and from what I can tell, the only reason people might be opposed to not having the option would be that they don't believe that they are receiving the "fullness" with just the Host?

(ETA: I don't intend to offend anyone who IS bothered by this directive...feel free to explain further/correct my misconception of the reasons someone would be upset!)

GeorgiaPeachMarie · September 2011

I never take of the Blood because I wasn't raised Catholic and I can't get over the shared cup thing. I always feel as though since I am around twenty-two little kiddos on a everyday basis I might be exposing others to their germs. That might make me a bad person not to be able to get over the icky factor, but I really don't feel the need to partake as the full graces are also in the Body.

HandBanana · September 2011

I'm raised Catholic and I received blood for the first time at my wedding. I have two fears. The germs. I get sick easily and sharing a cup with my congregation probably wouldn't help. Also, I have this fear of dropping the cup or sneezing while drinking. Really weird but a big fear.

I really do not object to this but I completely understand those that.

And.... our church has already begun some of the changes in mass that will be going into effect at advent.

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:a103a5fa-c2dc-4b17-a463-bd64310e1228">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE] And.... our church has already begun some of the changes in mass that will be going into effect at advent.
Posted by HandBanana[/QUOTE]

Was this the weekend that the changes were allowed to be introduced before they become mandatory at Advent? My parish had a lengthy post-homily video introducing the new translation (I think the first in a series of instructional videos) with promises that elements of the missal are getting introduced next week. I also caught a few minutes of the cathedral mass on TV yesterday and noticed that they were singing the new Gloria. It was funny to even see the priests reading the lyrics as they sang! I'm so excited for the new translation, it's not even funny! :)

lalaith50 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:5fad5d26-ad71-474e-ba96-e51ca8c71707">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Chalice : Was this the weekend that the changes were allowed to be introduced before they become mandatory at Advent?
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]
The USCCB said back during the summer that starting immediately, the local bishop could <strong>decide</strong> if he wanted to let his diocese begin the <strong>musical</strong> settings of the mass early. (Some bishops said it could start immediately, some started on a particular weekend, some not til Advent.)

Calypso1977 · September 2011

there shoudl be no issue here. i think people are upset because it takes away the need for EM's. someone's "job" will be taken away, and thus it affects their social standing within the church as they will have less involvement.

people are not receiving less communion/sacrament.

but again, i'm biased too as i grew up never receiving the blood. ever. to this day i never have.

zelis42 · September 2011

Sorry - my brain is a little fuzzy from congestion. So, they're starting to offer just the bread?

debbiem56 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:56cbf18b-b5bf-4b7b-968a-60e42dddc905">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Chalice : The USCCB said back during the summer that starting immediately, the local bishop could decide if he wanted to let his diocese begin the musical settings of the mass early. (Some bishops said it could start immediately, some started on a particular weekend, some not til Advent.)
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

Our archbishop decided we could begin the music next week.

debbiem56 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:51ff52ba-1c04-4c9a-9578-fc701725a2e6">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]there shoudl be no issue here. i think people are upset because it takes away the need for EM's. someone's "job" will be taken away, and thus it affects their social standing within the church as they will have less involvement. people are not receiving less communion/sacrament. but again, i'm biased too as i grew up never receiving the blood. ever. to this day i never have.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

I disagree. At least in my parish there will still be a need for EM's since we only have one priest to distribute. We just won't have to be scheduled 2 or 3 times a month. It definitely is not a social standing issue. There are many ways the EM's are involved in the Church and give of themselves.

I think it is simply change. Those of us who are older and made the change from Latin Masses with the priest facing the alter, the changes in prayers and songs etc over 40 years ago, finally adjusted to that change. We "learned" that is was "better" to receive the body and the Blood of Christ.

Change is never easy.

Louisa1000 · September 2011

I saw an article about this change in the AZ Republic ---seriously, you'd think the reporter would consider having a Catholic at least proof read it before it went out. So many wrong implications. Our priest had to address it before his homily to clarify what was really going on. Personally, I haven't met anybody who is bent out of shape about it here in Phoenix.

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:d91580a9-cca2-4ba1-b7f7-9df5a7eba260">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]I saw an article about this change in the AZ Republic ---seriously, you'd think the reporter would consider having a Catholic at least proof read it before it went out. So many wrong implications. Our priest had to address it before his homily to clarify what was really going on. Personally, I haven't met anybody who is bent out of shape about it here in Phoenix.
Posted by Louisa1000[/QUOTE]

LOL -- clearly you aren't friends with many of my friends! Many of them are pretty anti-Bishop Olmstead, and are also super "liberal." I love them, but often disagree with their views. Do I know which parish you attend?

Intellectually, I get that there isn't any "less" sacrament when it is only distributed under one species. Emotionally, I have always received both when offered, so it seems sad that it won't be offered regularly. I will be happy to have fewer people to wrangle when serving as sacristan, and fewer times to serve as EME per month/year, no worries about social standing here!

For those who clarified about using the music settings for the new translation, thanks for the info!

Meg1036 · September 2011

Bibli - I find it funny that your "liberal" Catholic friends are the one with the issues here. I guess its because the parish I grew up with - which did not offer the wine - was quite "liberal." So, without thinking about things any further, I just assumed that more "conservative" parishes would offer/want to offer the chalice where more "liberal" ones would not.

And that's why I hang out on this board. I think about and learn things.

HandBanana · September 2011

We started this week with the new translations. I'm worried though. Our parish is the kind that when we started with the new translation explanation, you could see them shaking their heads in disagreement.

I really hope they do some sort of theology on tap or something to discuss it. Not that it is up for discussion but I just would like to have a better understanding of the changes. My cousin has told me about some changes in wording that I'm not so excited about but I would like to hear them explained atleast.

Riss91 · September 2011

I think that the Church needs to do a much better job at explaining why these changes are an improvement. Many people do not understand the reason for the change and so they take offense because it goes against what they were taught and what they had been led to believe. I think if they were explained and linked to doctrine, it would be easier to accept.

lalaith50 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:fea26ebe-1682-4235-8c07-5a3b566c4677">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]We started this week with the new translations. I'm worried though. Our parish is the kind that when we started with the new translation explanation, you could see them shaking their heads in disagreement. I really hope they do some sort of theology on tap or something to discuss it. Not that it is up for discussion but I just would like to have a better understanding of the changes. My cousin has told me about some changes in wording that I'm not so excited about but I would like to hear them explained atleast.
Posted by HandBanana[/QUOTE]
Really? Most parishes that I'm around have been putting a little blurb in the bulletin every. single. week. for the past year, explaining either the broader reasons "why" for the new translation, or explaining specific texts that will change. (I think if you actually read it every week it would be helpful.) Other people's parishes don't do something like that?<div>
</div><div>But... some people just don't like ANY change, and will complain about anything! I betcha that 6 months after the new translation they won't even remember that it's new!</div>

agapecarrie · September 2011

It's been in our diocese newspaper, pastor's columns, workshops in the diocese, announcements at mass, programs (videos) at the parishes, and the USCCB web site.

I don't know how else our diocese could be doing more.

Riss91 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:3e72c0d9-aa69-4e7c-939b-437e030ef095">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]It's been in our diocese newspaper, pastor's columns, workshops in the diocese, announcements at mass, programs (videos) at the parishes, and the USCCB web site. I don't know how else our diocese could be doing more.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

That's terrific, our parish has been very thorough with the teaching. Unfortunately, I don't think everyone has had the same experience...

lalaith50 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:572dd362-7800-49d6-95e1-c620a54dd4e3">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Chalice : That's terrific, our parish has been very thorough with the teaching. Unfortunately, I don't think everyone has had the same experience...
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]
Well, at the very least, it's been all over the USCCB website, so if people actually cared enough to do a little research themselves (with the ease of the internet!) I'm sure all that these parishioners would have to do is a little google search!

Riss91 · September 2011

I agree that the information is out there... I just think it is the priests' responsibility to communicate and teach. I also know my own parents wouldn't know about a USCCB website, nor would they think to Google anything - it's just not natural to them. I think that's the case with many people. Yes, everyone should seek out the information for themselves - that is ideal. But sadly, I don't think it is the reality.

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

I've seen the bulletin blurbs/letters around here, too. My parish, like I said, is doing a big series of educational videos in the masses. I agree that all parishes need to be working on it, though I think some have a more "deal with it when it's happening" attitude than "let's drag this out forever" attitude.

For anyone who's interested, this is a video by a great, young, local priest that's floating around internetland that explains a lot of the why stuff.

http://catholic-video.blogspot.com/2011/08/fr-john-muir-explains-new-translation.html

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_chalice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:39dd7901-5d44-42c9-99ce-14a01cad23ebPost:471d3513-5736-4b2b-868a-f2bba5012696">Re: The Chalice</a>:
[QUOTE]Bibli - I find it funny that your "liberal" Catholic friends are the one with the issues here. I guess its because the parish I grew up with - which did not offer the wine - was quite "liberal." So, without thinking about things any further, I just assumed that more "conservative" parishes would offer/want to offer the chalice where more "liberal" ones would not. And that's why I hang out on this board. I think about and learn things.
Posted by Meg1036[/QUOTE]

Sorry for double posting.

That is interesting. I think the distribution of the blood at mass is also somewhat regional, since it has definitely been the norm around here, even in the most orthodox parishes. Since the routine offering of the chalice came into practice after Vatican II, I think many, including ladies here, think of it as a "new" thing.

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