Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides

SugarFoote · February 2012

I don't feel like intelligence has anything to do with this tradition.

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

I find it very ironic that in the same breath you would talk about sexism in weddings, and your desire to lose 60 pounds in a dangerous way before your wedding. So honoring your father in a way that used to be sexist is antifeminist, wrong, and unintelligent, but putting your body at risk to better conform to a beauty ideal is a-ok?
That just seems weird to me.

Also, I don't know if my opinion counts, as I only have 4 years of education after high school (I am still working on it though, I'm 1/2 way through my masters)....

But I agree that a lot of these traditions started out in a sexist way, and 50 years ago, these would be totally valid complaints. Now, though, brides have something that our predecessors could hardly dream of. Choice. Not only can we choose who we want to marry (a newer right than you might think), we can choose to marry them however we want, be it in a church, at a museum, or underwater.

Your dad can walk you down the aisle, or your mom, or you can go alone, doing handsprings and singing the French national anthem. After you tie the knot, you can stay home and raise kids, or keep your job, or travel the world. You can do it with your own last name, his last name, or you can get really creative and enter married life as Mrs, and Mr. Consuella-Banana-Hammock

There are without a doubt sexist things in the world today, but I don't think that weddings are one of them.

rlavach · February 2012

If you have such a problem with all of the 'sexist traditions' surrounding marriage, then why are you getting married?

Simply Fated · February 2012

I agree with Ramona in that you sound pretty hypocritical. OP, I think you're misunderstanding what constitutes as antifeminism. rlavich raises a good point, too. Marriage in of itself fates back to a pretty sexist tradition. If marriage has evolved to be a non-sexist tradition, why can't you believe other traditions have done the same?

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:9f65a9d9-4824-4376-99a0-76b1115da2ed">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]If you have such a problem with all of the 'sexist traditions' surrounding marriage, then why are you getting married?
Posted by rlavach[/QUOTE]

I wanted to ask this last night!

SugarFoote · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:9f65a9d9-4824-4376-99a0-76b1115da2ed">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]If you have such a problem with all of the 'sexist traditions' surrounding marriage, then why are you getting married?
Posted by rlavach[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

morenachica110 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:9f65a9d9-4824-4376-99a0-76b1115da2ed">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]If you have such a problem with all of the 'sexist traditions' surrounding marriage, then why are you getting married?
Posted by rlavach[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree. Aren't there bigger things to worry about int he world than men "oppressing" women? I can assure you that my FI and I are a team are are equal to each other. We support each other and love each other as partners. I'm not his property and he's not mine. I'm also not my dad's property. He will walk me down the aisle because I respect him and love him. Just because I want to share that moment with my dad and later will take FI's last name doesn't mean that I'm ignorant.</div><div>
</div><div>Also, I find it funny that you claim to not want to "ruffle feathers", but used words such as "disgusting" and insinuated that those who aren't offended by the "sexism" must not be "intelligent, educated, successful, and thoughtful women".<font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12px;"> *gag*</span></font></div>

morenachica110 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:53116ea1-c8e2-4fff-84e1-81f56c935406">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : Just because you don't understand my ideas doesn't mean that they are extreme. And you are right, I am not trolling. I am for real. The following ideas that I've posted about in the last couple days are neither extreme nor trollish, and in sum, they include the following: 1. I'm bothered by the sexist origins of many wedding traditions, and am further disturbed that they continue. (That's not extreme or trollish) 2. Sending out any type of communication, other than perhaps legal notices, such as subpoenas, is outdated and unnecessary. (that's not extreme or trollish - it's a fact) <strong>3. I am having a gay male attendant (that's not extreme or trollish, unless you are an antiquated homophobic bigot).</strong> 4. I believe that gay marriage is a fundamental human right that is being violated (this is not extreme or trollish for the same reasons cited in #3). 5. I have entertained the idea of ordering my dress 2-3 sizes smaller than my current size because I am dieting and plan to lose 10 pounds per month (this is not extreme or trollish either. People may think it's unwise, but it is not extreme or trollish) There. That's pretty much all of the topics I've posted in the last 4 weeks. I might be missing some, but those are the memorable ones. As an aside, I appreciate the conversation that has taken place by several of the other members, and welcome anyone's input on the OT.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

<div>I'm not sure what the bolded is about as your planner is now private (surprise), but I wanted to say that it feels like this is a big attention ploy. "Look at me! Look at me! I'm unconventional! I'm so different and unique and rebellious!" My MOH is a lesbian, but I haven't announced it to the world because that fact doesn't matter in the slightest. Actually, aside from this post, I don't think I've mentioned it on TK. Know why? Because she's not my tool for more attention. Why does the fact that you have a gay male attendant matter at all? Why would that come up? My MOH is y best friend and I don't care what she looks like or who she likes, I would want her to stand with me. Would your "gay male attendant" be less special if he were straight? Or a female?</div>

zitiqueen · February 2012

Why aren't you making your FI take your last name? That's an option too, you know.

divinemsbee · February 2012

Ok, we all get it. You like "discussion." You like to throw flame-bait out just so you can justify whatever it is you're doing by telling everyone who gives you an opinion that they are wrong and you are right. Good for you. To me, that is trolling. I'm not saying you are a troll, I am saying that you tend to engage in trollish behavior. Maybe if you became involved in discussions instead of always starting a new thread with some "shock me, shock me, shock me, with that deviant behavior" then people would want to have a discussion with you. You start off adversarial, not like you want to have a real discussion, and no matter how educated you may be, I find that pretty immature

Plus, we could sit here and go into issues of privilege all day.Of course sexism and misogyny played huge roles in society, and, I would argue (especially looking at the "beat me, Chris Brown" tweets after the Grammys) that they still do. There are obviously still issues of privilege in society and issues of internalized misogyny (Female Chauvinist Pigs, anyone). BUT, here's the deal. Feminism, as others have put, is about choice. It's about having choices to live as a fulfilled and whole individual, without having to take on society's view of what you should be just because you were born with certain sex organs.

Also, while you wanting to lose that much weight in a relatively short period of time is your choice, as someone who doesn't know you, I might wonder if you were doing this to satisfy both the outward and the inward "male gaze" that makes so many women in society feel as though they are not worth as much if they don't live up to certian expectations. I highly recommend the book "Fat is a Feminist Issue."

And, because this just made me roll my eyes, so you have a male attendant and believe in gay marriage as a right. Whoop-di-do. So do a great many people on this website. Did you want some sort of pat on the head for being a trail-blazer, if so, you're a little late to that party.

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

divinemsbee, can I cosign everything you just said?

artbyallie · February 2012

*applauds msbee*

Beautifully said.

SugarFoote · February 2012

morenachica110 and divinemsbee, I agree 110%.

littleluckypenny · February 2012

The point of feminism is about CHOICE. That also incorporates that if a woman chooses to take her husband's last name, or a woman chooses to stay at home and raise children, she has the right to do that. A woman also has the CHOICE to keep her last name, work outside the home, have her father walk her down the aisle, or even not wanting to get married!

Yes, having your father walk you down the aisle started out with sexist roots. However, like most traditions today, it has evolved into something with entirely different meanings. It is viewed as an honor for an important person in the bride's life, whether it is her father, grandfather, or even both her parents. She can even walk alone is she prefers. It's symbollic of the importance of that person in her life.

Rarely does an officiant say "who gives this woman", because it is outdated. I know our officiant will say "who gives their support to this union", and our entire chapel filled with people will respond "we do".

By the way, using your education to degrade and feel superior to others only makes you and what you stand for look foolish. I have 2 bachelors degrees and a masters degree. I don't have the same opinions you do, and do not consider myself any less intelligent because of it.

TiffannieF · February 2012

I *personally* do not view a father giving his daughter away as sexist. But if you are not comfortable with it then don't do it.

I understand that you were just wanting to get a discussion but when you start a conversation saying 'as an educated, intelligent, blah blah woman' you are strongly implying that because you won't have your father give you away you possess these traits and if you have your father give you away then you do not possess these traits. If you want a productive 'discussion' on a matter then don't insult the opposing side.

Everything I have done (changing my name, father giving me away, etc) were based on religious beliefs and traditions...it had nothing to do with sexism.

jemmini6 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:83239112-473e-4b58-97d7-404521a2235c">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree with Ramona in that you sound pretty hypocritical. OP, I think you're misunderstanding what constitutes as antifeminism. rlavich raises a good point, too. <strong>Marriage in of itself fates back to a pretty sexist tradition. If marriage has evolved to be a non-sexist tradition, why can't you believe other traditions have done the same?</strong>
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

This. And if you can't see the hypocirsy in your assumptions, then it's YOUR intelligence I'm doubting.

BTW...education /=/ intelligence.

Aks3131 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:0f1efae2-233d-46eb-bf6d-e4f09c2b4aa6">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, I am absolutely dreading being referred to as "Mrs. Scott HisLastName." We are asking the preacher not to say this after the ceremony ( I now pronounce you...). I have my own first name., I don't need to be referred to by his. I know most people don't care, and I have to get over it because we will receive mail like this, but it irks me. This DOES make it seem like I have no indentity other than my FI's/H's wife, though I know it's not true. I wish this one would die, but it probably won't.
Posted by em01092[/QUOTE]

I totally feel the same way! I DO NOT want to be referred to as Mrs. His FirstName & His LastName. I actually kind of hate that and it makes me cringe. I have my own first name thank you very much feel free to use it lol. I've already made it very clear to the priest and dj how I want to be introduced that day... Mrs. MY FIRSTNAME & his last name. I know I'll receive mail like this but if it's from any family memebers I will tell them to stop.

entropicbeauty · February 2012

If my father won't be offended, I plan to just walk down the aisle together with my FI (we're doing a first look photo session anyways, so we'll have been hanging out all morning anyways).

I do see a lot of the traditions as being pretty stifling for women, so other than exchanging vows our wedding isn't going to include much "tradition".

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:40fcc990-ab82-4567-b576-6e33bb494d7b">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]If I choose to make him dinner, then does that make me anti-feminist? I mean, if the role of the woman isn't in the kitchen anymore, does that mean I can't cook for my bf/fiance/husband anymore? The logic just kills me.<strong> Feminism is about choice.</strong> Women can stay at home and raise kids if they want to. Women can change their names to what ever they want to. I'm an adult now, but I was my parent's property for a damn long time. They changed my diapers, made sure I was fed, put clothes on my body and kept a roof over my head. If they want to walk with me down the aisle as I head towards the next step in my life, then wtf do I care? I don't see how that has anything to do with feminism. At all.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

No, feminism is not about choice. Feminism is about equality.

Not all choices are equally "feminist." However, this does not mean that 1) people do or should use feminism as the basis for all of their decisions (as other factors can certainly trump the nebulous "cause of feminism" in your own personal life), or 2) that people aren't entitled to make whatever choice they want. But don't conflate being able to make that choice with "feminism."

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · February 2012

Anyway, I am anti-having my father give me away. We did not include any language to that effect. I wanted to walk myself down the aisle, but my dad REALLY wanted to do it. I realized that my parents had ALSO always thought of what my possible wedding day would be like, and my dad might have been considering walking me down the aisle before I even knew what a wedding was. Honestly, both my parents were a mess on my wedding day! They were so happy, but they were so emotional. It was a very important day for both of them, so I didn't want to take away part of my dad's experience.

And yes, I considered having both of my parents walk me down, but my parents are divorced and can't stand each other. My dad walked me, I hugged him, I hugged my mom, then I walked up the steps at the end of the aisle with my then-FI.

Simply Fated · February 2012

Choice does figure into current feminist trends. If it's considered "anti-feminist" to be a stay at home mom or to wear a dress instead of pants, then a discussion about "choice" is appropriate.
Feminism has everything to do with equality, but some women take that to mean that any woman who complies with traditional gender roles is an anti-feminist.
There is a difference between choosing to be a stay at home mom and having your husband force you to be a stay at home mom. "Choice" plays a big role in feminism, even if it wasn't the initial intention of the feminist movement.

lauraminn · February 2012

I think part of being a feminist is being aware of why we feel pressured to make certain types of choices when men do not:

-changing your name upon marriage

-working a part time job or stopping work altogether to care for children and later in life to take care of aging parents

-working the 'second shift' of housework and cooking

You can be a feminist and whole-heartedly make any one of these choices. I also believe that we will not be equal until men feel the same amount of burden to think about these choices.

Since joining the knot I have thought a lot about the sexist traditions that are inherent in a lot of planning, such as addressing invitations to Mr. and Mrs. John Smith. I refuse to do that. I have also known since I was very young that I would not take a future husband's name.

I may ask both my parents to walk me part of the way down the aisle, but I do not want them to "give me away". I also did not want my fiance to ask my father or mother for permission to marry me - I think they would have told him that he was asking the wrong people!!

em01092 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:ce0087a5-0493-46f7-bebc-1800e09e48d8">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]I think part of being a feminist is being aware of why we feel pressured to make certain types of choices when men do not: -changing your name upon marriage -working a part time job or stopping work altogether to care for children and later in life to take care of aging parents -working the 'second shift' of housework and cooking You can be a feminist and whole-heartedly make any one of these choices. I also believe that we will not be equal until men feel the same amount of burden to think about these choices. Since joining the knot I have thought a lot about the sexist traditions that are inherent in a lot of planning,<strong> such as addressing invitations to Mr. and Mrs. John Smith. I refuse to do that.</strong> I have also known since I was very young that I would not take a future husband's name. I may ask both my parents to walk me part of the way down the aisle, but I do not want them to "give me away". I also did not want my fiance to ask my father or mother for permission to marry me - I think they would have told him that he was asking the wrong people!!
Posted by lauraminn[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Thank you! =D

</div>

lauraminn · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:aaa8c37b-270f-48bb-989f-092fec0a1093">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]em and laura, what if the women receiving those invitations want to be addressed as such? <strong>Making that choice for them is just as presumptious as other people addressing you as Mrs. John Smith</strong>. Two wrongs don't make a right. vegas, what if the man chooses not to continue with schooling? Is he antifeminist? Or are just women who choose to discontinue schooling antifeminists?
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

<div>I disagree, because I have a first name and it is not my husband's (or future husband's). If I know someone who adopted her husband's first and last name then I would address it as such. </div><div>
</div><div>I don't see how being addressed by your first name could be insulting. However, having it omitted and replaced by your spouse's is another story. I am happy to agree to disagree, but I still refuse to address any envelope to Mrs. and Mr. John Smith. </div>

Simply Fated · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:579e2007-af5b-4c22-845c-47efb7d11d78">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : I disagree, because I have a first name and it is not my husband's (or future husband's). If I know someone who adopted her husband's first and last name then I would address it as such. I don't see how being addressed by your first name could be insulting. However, having it omitted and replaced by your spouse's is another story. I am happy to agree to disagree, but <strong>I still refuse to address any envelope to Mrs. and Mr. John Smith. </strong>
Posted by lauraminn[/QUOTE]
What if they prefer it that way?

It's not your choice to make for someone else.

I just look at it the same way as the whole Mrs vs Ms controversy.

I've always thought it was unfair that men always got to be Mr, no matter their age, marital status or profession, but women were labeled as Mrs or Miss. However, some women prefer to be Mrs or Miss instead of Ms. Just because it's not something I agree with, I'll still refer to them by their preferred name. It's their name, not mine.

lauraminn · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:ad46d486-122b-41ff-8a1b-f9773ca9272c">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : What if they prefer it that way? It's not your choice to make for someone else. I just look at it the same way as the whole Mrs vs Ms controversy. I've always thought it was unfair that men always got to be Mr, no matter their age, marital status or profession, but women were labeled as Mrs or Miss. However, some women prefer to be Mrs or Miss instead of Ms. Just because it's not something I agree with, I'll still refer to them by their preferred name. It's their name, not mine.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree!</div>

VegasCalling · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:fd7c6c32-b0f3-43a7-a263-ab49de05ccd3">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think you were personally attacked, and<strong> I don't think ANYONE said anything about saying 'obey', or serving their husband or creating Christian soldiers.</strong> So... umm... way to stereotype?
Posted by Gabrielle76[/QUOTE]

<div>You're right, no one said any of those things. It was a hypothetical example to illustrate a concept. </div>

VegasCalling · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:fd7c6c32-b0f3-43a7-a263-ab49de05ccd3">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think you were personally attacked, and<strong> I don't think ANYONE said anything about saying 'obey', or serving their husband or creating Christian soldiers</strong>. So... umm... way to stereotype?
Posted by Gabrielle76[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Um, you're right. No one said any of those things. It was a hypothetical example used to illustrate the concept of taking "feminist choice" to an extreme. </div>

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:e1ccb976-fcc1-48b7-9228-753c70677eb7">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : Um, you're right. No one said any of those things. It was a hypothetical example used to illustrate the concept of taking "feminist choice" to an extreme.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]
It seemed like a very extreme, offensive extrapolation.

divinemsbee · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:1bc9d9f1-1708-4db8-a265-f48ccce89f78">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Well, I am impressed by some of your responses (that weren't personal attacks of me), and I've enjoyed hearing about how quite a few of you not only have felt ambivalent about some of the the sexist traditions that every feminist-identifying woman planning a wedding has to confront, but also how you have modified the ceremony in a way that didn't feel demeaning. I can see the points about how once-sexist traditions can evolve to have other meanings, as culture is fluid and dynamic. I especially enjoyed the post about feminism being as much about equality as it is about choice. <strong>It seems that some women have extrapolated the idea of "feminist choice" so far to say, "Yes, I said that I will obey my husband during our ceremony, and I totally agree with my religion that I should stop pursuing education after getting married because I am supposed to serve my husband and create Christian soldiers, and I decided to teach my daughters to pursue marriage rather than education, and in my marriage my husband makes all of the decisions because man is to be the head of the woman, but it's TOTALLY OK and I'm still a feminist since I CHOSE all of this".</strong> -Um, sure. Regarding the personal attack posts, I'm so totally assuming all of the emotion permeating your posts is because you truly find this topic to be such a "non issue" and completely frivolous. Yes that's sarcasm.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

If you spent any, and I mean any, time on feminist websites or sites with a predominately feminist commenter base both when Michelle Dugar became pregnant and when she lost her pregnancy, you would have seen a lot of discussion about this very idea. The idea is that women should be given equal rights and equal choices as men. Unfortunately, that means that there will always be some women who will choose a lifestyle or have one chosen for them, or bend to the will of an outside force and have a lifestyle that is flat out anti-feminist. Merry put it very well earlier, we all have choices, and part of supporting women is to support their right to make choices, but that doesn't mean we have to support the choice they make.

Example: I don't really support the choice that young teen moms who have no means of support, who choose to either continue with their pregnancies without the intention to give the baby up have made. It seems to force most of them into a cycle of poverty that is very hard to break. But, I also support WIC, Headstart, and more opportunities to give these women child care and job training. I don't support the choice they made, but it was theirs to make. I really don't support anything the Duggars do. I don't care if they seem nice, they give money to organizations that I find pretty abhorrent and I don't really feel as though their children are given a true choice. But I don't try to, or give money to try to, make their choice illegal, but it's certainly anti-feminist.

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