Difference between Ukranian Catholics and Roman Catholic

Re: Difference between Ukranian Catholics and Roman Catholic

• caitriona87 member

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  I have attended at a Ukrainian church a few times but I'm sure someone who is actually Eastern Rite themselves would know much more.
  
  The Church has various Rites, or liturgical traditions, of which Roman/Latin is the most well-known. A Ukrainian church would be of the Byzantine Rite, I believe. Switching wouldn't be a conversion or leaving the Church because these other Rites are just as Catholic. They are in communion with Rome but grew of a different liturgical tradition. The Byzantine church uses the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom which is fairly different in structure from the Mass of the Latin Rite, and there are some other differences in typical art, architecture, etc. Someone who grew up or practices in another Rite would know much more.
  
  The important thing is that whatever the differences, they are in practice and not in belief. They are part of the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.
  
  I've never been to an Eastern wedding, but I would imagine it looks & feels different than a Latin one. They way they administer sacraments can differ--for example, for the Eucharist there the two species are mixed in a cup and placed into the mouths of communicants by the priest using a spoon. However, the sacraments are valid and "transferable" if you will.
  
  I think it's really interesting how little is known about the other Rites of the Church, in parts of the U.S. at least. I was Catholic over 20 years before I ever heard of such a thing.
  

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• bel138 member

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  Ukranian Catholics are from the Ukraine. LOL, no, I'm sorry. That was mean.
  
  Basically, the traditions are what differs. The Eastern Catholic Liturgies originated in the different sees of the church in the world. While Peter hung out in Rome, the other apostles went to other areas of the world and established their traditions, which have evolved over time, but whose theological meanings are all in accordance with the Catholic church as a whole.
  
  Some quick examples.
  - Instead of statues, there are icons depicting holy beings and scenes. To call them "pictures" would be a disservice; they are windows into heaven. Everything in the painting is highly symbolic, they have symbolic placement around the church. People keep them in their homes the way a Roman Catholic might have a statue of Mary.
  - Some of the Liturgy (or maybe all) would be in Ukranian, like Roman masses were once in Latin, "the language of the people." We went to a Ukranian Catholic church once when we were new to the area and looking for a church. Everything was done once in English and twice in Ukranian. (The Eastern churches are really big on doing everything three times, again with the symbolism.) But at our own church there are parts of the Liturgy every week in Old Church Slavonic.
  - Pretty much everything in the Liturgy will be sung. The Priest will face the altar, not the people. The Liturgy will likely be much longer than a Roman Liturgy. Communion will be given by tincture, with leavened bread actually IN the wine, given on a the tongue with a golden spoon. The people will cross themselves "backwards," going to their right shoulder before their left. Although, if an argument ever occurred, they would say you are the one going "backwards." There will be a screen of icons covering the altar, much like a communion rail. Only the priests, deacons, altar boys (no girls), and other relgious men are allowed behind it. There will most likely be a depiction of the Last Supper behind the altar rather than a crucifix. Don't be surprised if people go up and kiss things - the icon on the tetrapod, the crucifix that the priest holds.
  - The actual ceremony will be very different. If they're traditional, there will be no vows. There will be the ring ceremony as usual. But there will also be crowns. I believe the Ukranians use "royal" type crowns, with the red velvet and all that jazz. They will be placed on their heads to symbolize what awaits us in heaven and also the couple being the king and queen of their own kingdom, the domestic church. They are led by the priest around the tetrapod and gospel book three times. And they hold candles, symbolizing the church and Christ guiding their lives, with the Gospel being the center of their universe. If it is a true "Crowning Ceremony" there will be no communion.
  
  I guess that wasn't quick. And there's a lot more I can tell you, if you have more questions.
  
  Anyway, I'm confused why she would be confirmed Roman if she intends to then change rite to Ukranian and be married in that church. Is her FI Ukranian? Because I can tell you from experience, if she wants to be Ukranian and is confirmed Roman, there is a lot of paperwork in her future explaining why she wants to be a Ukranian Catholic. And the approval of both Bishops, then a letter to Rome. You can also only change rite once in your life. So if she changes to Ukranian and then decides she wants to go back to Roman, she would not be able to. Also, if her FI isn't Ukranian and they want to be married in a Ukranian church, that is also another stack of paperwork and worry. Two Roman Catholics (or a Roman Catholic and a person of another religion) cannot be married in an Eastern Catholic church without good reason and a dispensation. The difference is that in a Roman wedding, the priest "witnesses" the sacrament that the couple confers upon each other. In the East, the priest actually confers the sacrament.
  
  Well, now that I've written you a novel, if you have any other questionsm feel free to ask.
  
  EDIT: When I say that the Liturgy has evolved over time, I didn't mean it evolved from the Western traditions. It has evolved within it's own traditions, like adopting English in the US. It is actually remarkably unchanged for nearly two millenia. I just re-read that and thought it was confusing.

  

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• caitriona87 member

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  Thanks, bel! Very interesting.
  
  I'm curious about the process for changing rites--we asked the priest at the Ukrainian church about it, just kind of out of curiosity, and he said it was a matter between local bishops and did not involve Rome at all, which surprised me. I did know you could only switch once.
  

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• bel138 member

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  It may be different somehow between Ukranians and Ruthenians. But we're going through it right now. Our priest told us that both Bishops will have to approve, and then the paperwork is sent to Rome. I don't know what they do with it there.

  

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• CaylaSummer

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_difference-between-ukranian-catholics-roman-catholic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:5b8d43d8-5778-48e0-b42c-7155b9cfd87dPost:9c26c5b2-cac7-4126-a4f7-48e63b0b80bf">Re: Difference between Ukranian Catholics and Roman Catholic</a>:
  [QUOTE]Ukranian Catholics are from the Ukraine. LOL, no, I'm sorry. That was mean. Basically, the traditions are what differs. The Eastern Catholic Liturgies originated in the different sees of the church in the world. While Peter hung out in Rome, the other apostles went to other areas of the world and established their traditions, which have evolved over time, but whose theological meanings are all in accordance with the Catholic church as a whole. Some quick examples. - Instead of statues, there are icons depicting holy beings and scenes. To call them "pictures" would be a disservice; they are windows into heaven. Everything in the painting is highly symbolic, they have symbolic placement around the church. People keep them in their homes the way a Roman Catholic might have a statue of Mary. - Some of the Liturgy (or maybe all) would be in Ukranian, like Roman masses were once in Latin, "the language of the people." We went to a Ukranian Catholic church once when we were new to the area and looking for a church. Everything was done once in English and twice in Ukranian. (The Eastern churches are really big on doing everything three times, again with the symbolism.) But at our own church there are parts of the Liturgy every week in Old Church Slavonic. - Pretty much everything in the Liturgy will be sung. The Priest will face the altar, not the people. The Liturgy will likely be much longer than a Roman Liturgy. Communion will be given by tincture, with leavened bread actually IN the wine, given on a the tongue with a golden spoon. The people will cross themselves "backwards," going to their right shoulder before their left. Although, if an argument ever occurred, they would say you are the one going "backwards." ;) There will be a screen of icons covering the altar, much like a communion rail. Only the priests, deacons, altar boys (no girls), and other relgious men are allowed behind it. There will most likely be a depiction of the Last Supper behind the altar rather than a crucifix. Don't be surprised if people go up and kiss things - the icon on the tetrapod, the crucifix that the priest holds. - The actual ceremony will be very different. If they're traditional, there will be no vows. There will be the ring ceremony as usual. But there will also be crowns. I believe the Ukranians use "royal" type crowns, with the red velvet and all that jazz. They will be placed on their heads to symbolize what awaits us in heaven and also the couple being the king and queen of their own kingdom, the domestic church. They are led by the priest around the tetrapod and gospel book three times. And they hold candles, symbolizing the church and Christ guiding their lives, with the Gospel being the center of their universe. If it is a true "Crowning Ceremony" there will be no communion. I guess that wasn't quick. And there's a lot more I can tell you, if you have more questions. Anyway, I'm confused why she would be confirmed Roman if she intends to then change rite to Ukranian and be married in that church. Is her FI Ukranian? Because I can tell you from experience, if she wants to be Ukranian and is confirmed Roman, there is a lot of paperwork in her future explaining why she wants to be a Ukranian Catholic. And the approval of both Bishops, then a letter to Rome. You can also only change rite once in your life. So if she changes to Ukranian and then decides she wants to go back to Roman, she would not be able to. Also, if her FI isn't Ukranian and they want to be married in a Ukranian church, that is also another stack of paperwork and worry. Two Roman Catholics (or a Roman Catholic and a person of another religion) cannot be married in an Eastern Catholic church without good reason and a dispensation. The difference is that in a Roman wedding, the priest "witnesses" the sacrament that the couple confers upon each other. In the East, the priest actually confers the sacrament. Well, now that I've written you a novel, if you have any other questionsm feel free to ask.
  Posted by bel138[/QUOTE]
  
  <div>Hey,</div><div>
  </div><div>Thanks for the info. My friend is actually presbyterian and her FI is the Ukranian one. I don't think she really understands what she is getting into or mayhe she does. The way she was explaining things to me was confusing. If her FI is eastern  then why would she get confirmed at a Roman church. From the way you explained the practices are so different. I would assume she should be taking classes or her confirmation at the church she inteds to marry and practice to learn more about it and its the way they carry out the mass.</div><div>
  </div><div>I also said that in a roman church, you have to belong to that parish, not her FI's parents but him in order to be married into one. She said there should not be a problem because the family knows the priest. I don;t think it matters whethere its' a roman one ukranian, I would think the person has to belong to that church for a while. She said there is no envelope for gift offers at her FI's church, I don't know. I was really confused as to what she was trying to you say. </div>

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• Knalexis member

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  I am going through the same exact thing (your friend's intentions with the Church and changing Rites), but my question is, why is this something that interests you so much to post about your friend and her choice to convert?

  
  

  Seems like a lot of answers you have gotten covers a lot of what could be researched on your own, and its a lot of unnecessary details that won't make a big difference in anyone's life on a regular basis.

  
  

  If she has Ukrainian heritage, it could be that she identifies most with the religion and feels at home with their beliefs. If her husband is Ukrainian, this could be something she feels she wants to do to be closer to him. Either way, you have not specified many details about her, but I am sure it would make sense if you knew.

  
  

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• bel138 member

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_difference-between-ukranian-catholics-roman-catholic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:5b8d43d8-5778-48e0-b42c-7155b9cfd87dPost:a07933c8-1d2c-4fbf-a699-d6951a134888">Re: Difference between Ukranian Catholics and Roman Catholic</a>:
  [QUOTE]If her FI is eastern  then why would she get confirmed at a Roman church. [/QUOTE]
  
  Got me. Doesn't make much sense to me. The only thing I can figure is that maybe the Ukrainian parish doesn't have an RCIA program.
  
  [QUOTE] I also said that in a roman church, you have to belong to that parish, not her FI's parents but him in order to be married into one. She said there should not be a problem because the family knows the priest. I don;t think it matters whethere its' a roman one ukranian, I would think the person has to belong to that church for a while. [/QUOTE]
  
  We didn't belong to the church we got married in. We got married in DH's home town. Technically, it was DH's parents' church, even though he was an altar boy there for 10 years. Many churches do not require you to be a member. But many will ask your home parish whether you're an active parishoner. That goes for Roman churches too. I think you'll find there are many women on this board even that didn't get married in their home parish.

  

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• CaylaSummer

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_difference-between-ukranian-catholics-roman-catholic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:5b8d43d8-5778-48e0-b42c-7155b9cfd87dPost:64a917b5-4a57-4668-942b-b084c5249063">Re: Difference between Ukranian Catholics and Roman Catholic</a>:
  [QUOTE]I am going through the same exact thing (your friend's intentions with the Church and changing Rites), but my question is, why is this something that interests you so much to post about your friend and her choice to convert? Seems like a lot of answers you have gotten covers a lot of what could be researched on your own, and its a lot of unnecessary details that won't make a big difference in anyone's life on a regular basis. If she has Ukrainian heritage, it could be that she identifies most with the religion and feels at home with their beliefs. If her husband is Ukrainian, this could be something she feels she wants to do to be closer to him. Either way, you have not specified many details about her, but I am sure it would make sense if you knew. :)
  Posted by Knalexis[/QUOTE]
  
  <div>I simply posted the question because many women on here know a lot about catholicism in general more than I do. I did look it up obviously before I posted on here but I couldn't find anything that I can actually comprehend to truly understand the difference between the two. </div><div>
  </div><div>I am not questiong my friend's choice but merely was trying to undertand myself the difference since im getting married in a roman catholic church and I will likely be in her wedding party though she has not asked me since she has not set a date yet. No she is not Ukranian and she is doing it because she wants to. </div>

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• CaylaSummer

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_difference-between-ukranian-catholics-roman-catholic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:5b8d43d8-5778-48e0-b42c-7155b9cfd87dPost:f192eca7-d859-4a73-9151-b2029e9fbdf3">Re: Difference between Ukranian Catholics and Roman Catholic</a>:
  [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Difference between Ukranian Catholics and Roman Catholic : Got me. Doesn't make much sense to me. The only thing I can figure is that maybe the Ukrainian parish doesn't have an RCIA program. We didn't belong to the church we got married in. We got married in DH's home town. Technically, it was DH's parents' church, even though he was an altar boy there for 10 years. Many churches do not require you to be a member. But many will ask your home parish whether you're an active parishoner. That goes for Roman churches too. I think you'll find there are many women on this board even that didn't get married in their home parish.
  Posted by bel138[/QUOTE]
  
  <div>I was just saying that you had to belong to the parish because this was my experience. My family and I were going to the same parish for a very long time. When I got older i did stop practicing but would go to church on occasions which was not good then I moved. My parish is quite big in members so they give priority to members of the parish. where I am, they prefer that the woman or the man belong to the parish themselves and inquire 1 year before marriage and this is standard across in my city. </div>

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• Knalexis member

  

  April 2011 edited December 2011

  Not to worry about your religious status if you are in her wedding at all!! I was a bridesmaid for my friend at her VERY JEWISH wedding... In fact, I think there were only 4 Catholics invited (myself, another friend, and our dates)! It was fun and it was not a problem that I was not Jewish to be a part of the wedding party!

  
  

  Take in the cultural traditions and differences of the Ukrainian ceremony. There will be a part of the ceremony where she will be blessed and pray to a statue or icon of Mary (if in a church) to be given the gift of healthy children; There is a part where the couple will wear small wreaths on their heads, symbolizing their place as king and queen of their home. At the reception, the parents of bride and groom with the couple will share bread, wine, and salt that has been blessed and each symbolize well wishing to the couple, before they have their grand entrance as husband and wife.

  
  

  We all (RCs and UCs)believe in the same God, bottom line.

  
  

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