HIS Family's Catholic Wedding Demands

doctabroccoli · August 2011

Travelagent -
We are agreeing with you, and we are giving you substantial reasons to tell his family as to why you shouldn't get married in the Church.

Please don't go through with your Catholic ceremony. Stand up to his family and (calmly) explain to them why you shouldn't have the Church ceremony. You asked for advice, and we gave it to you - use what we told you to your advantage (i.e. don't just tell them it's because you want an outdoor ceremony, because that's not the huge issue here). You no longer consider yourselves to be Catholic, which is really why you should not have a Catholic ceremony.

Good luck!

monkeysip · August 2011

Travel Agent,

I think you've received plenty of backing on why you shouldn't have a Catholic ceremony, and of course, even though your family should be concerned, they shouldn't refuse to talk to you over it.

I would love to address your points about the faith one by one (and I could if you like), but since I probably only have your attention for a short time, I'll only address the one about unconditional love and the "rules" of the Church.

I love my FI unconditionally. And yet, I expect him to remember my birthday. Call me at least once a day. I expect him to never cheat on me with another woman. I expect him to stay with me even when I'm sick. I expect him to hold my shopping bags when I need to look through my purse for something. I expect him to put the seat down on the toilet when he's done using it. And for crying out loud, please change the roll of toilet paper when it's empty. There's probably a hundred little things I expect him to do. Will he fail a lot of times? Sure. Do I still love him no matter what? Of course. And he has expectations of me, that I will surely disappoint him on from time to time. And he'll still love me.

The point is that there are expectations in any relationship. The relationship between God, his Church, and each individual is the same. God loves me unconditionally, and I, Him. But God also desires certain things of us both for our own good and to express our love for Him. This doesn't make the love any more unconditional, and NO "rule" in the Church is arbitrary--they all make completely rational sense for the good of humans.

Jasmine&Rajah · August 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_his-familys-catholic-wedding-demands?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:6e2a4fb3-3b02-4901-afb5-48b8023f656ePost:2d5ea1b1-4ca7-49f7-968f-45376c6023f7">Re: HIS Family's Catholic Wedding Demands</a>:
[QUOTE]we don't want more people than necessary to see the church service.
Posted by travelagent717[/QUOTE]

travelagent, I am going to presume that you have no idea how immensely disrespectful that sentiment alone is.

If I were a friend or family member of yours, and I somehow found out that you'd had a church wedding that you hid - as if you were ashamed - I would be incredibly insulted as a Christian Catholic who believes in the institution of marriage as a holy sacrament. Not to mention that it is terribly offensive to ask your guests to witness the outdoor ceremony that is - as you yourself put it - just a "show," since you'll already be married.

I cannot say it strongly enough - please reconsider this. As another poster wrote, you will only face this problem again in the future with your children - their education, their baptisms, their confirmations . . . it will just go on and on.

We're all only trying to help you. You see that no one here is advising you to lie. Even though you and I obviously don't share the same beliefs, I would never say, "Yes, you should have a Catholic ceremony just to keep the peace." If neither you nor your husband-to-be believe in the Real Presence, in the Truth of the One Church and in Christ as our Redeemer, then you should certainly not pretend that you do.

ElisabethJoanne · August 2011

Haven't read PPs. But marriage is a sacrament. It imparts grace, if you're open to receiving it. That's a priceless gift, literally the difference between eternal bliss and burning in hell for all eternity. [Though of course there are other ways of receiving salvific grace beyond sacramental marriage.] All sacramental grace comes from the Catholic Church. If you want to get married, truly, sacramentally married, you have to follow the Church's rules. They're not really the Church's rules, anyway. The Church is God's minister on earth. Her rules are His rules.

blush64 · August 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_his-familys-catholic-wedding-demands?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:6e2a4fb3-3b02-4901-afb5-48b8023f656ePost:519da798-796e-449b-a2cf-46ef22e14f83">Re: HIS Family's Catholic Wedding Demands</a>:
[QUOTE]Trust me, I've done quite a lot of research on the Catholic religion and dozens of other religions. I was born a Catholic, went thru CCD and had communion, confirmation, etc. etc. But once I got into high school and college and let my mind be open to other religions, <strong>my ideas totally changed. I was born a Catholic, but I do not consider myself Catholic</strong>. In fact, I consider myself absolutely nothing at all. I don't believe that anyone needs religion. If anything, I believe in evolution and that's that. And my fiancee is exactly the same way. We do not believe in these laws and rules and teachings and preachings, yet we are going to have to stand up on an Altar and go thru all of this just to please his grandmother and family. And we told them this, and it does absolutely no good. And I do think<strong> it's ridiculous because look what it's doing between my fiancee and myself, my family and his family - it's driving them apart. All because of 1 little ridiculous rule, our families barely speak to each other.</strong> So I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from when I say that I'm upset.

<strong>EDITED</strong> Everyone before me already gave wonderful answers. After reading everything over I want to add to what I already wrote.

I am doubting how serious you are. (as another poster said, MUD maybe) Why come onto a Catholic board when you really seem to dislike the religion. However...

It's not the ridiculous rule that is preventing your family from speaking, it's your family being ridiculous. It's easier to blame religion though. The only thing driving your family apart is your family. --

I get that you're angry but real issue is the behaviour of those you love, not the religion. People use religion to excuse a lot of things and people usually hate religion for a lot of man-made problems.

Be adults, get married where you want to get married. Your family will react as they will react. You can't live your life trying to keep thing ok with them. What happens when you have kids (if you do) and those kids must be raised Catholic? Will you stand up to them then?

Bottom line, don't use the church as an excuse. Make your own decisions and stick by them. (and deal with the consequences, that's what adults do.)

ootmother2 · August 2011

I haven't read the previous posts but I'll give my opinion anyhow.

Honestly, at this point in your life, you probably shouldn't get married in the Catholic Church given your views. Your family will attend or not attend, that's their choice and marriage by force went out a long, long time ago.

Your bio doesn't say how old you are but I'm guessing in your early to mid twenties.

It's pretty normal to have a time of rejecting the political views, traditions and even the religion that you grew up in and/or explore other ways of life.

Please understand, I've been there. Not before I got married (I was barely 21 at that time) but a little bit later. It's totally normal to reject some parts of how you were raised, what you do or don't believe in, and also to find new ways to live your life.. You can accept or reject what your parents and other family members believe in.

I'M NOT talking down to you. Many people have what the Catholic Church calls "a crisis of faith". That may or may not be true in your case.

It hurts no one or even God to explore what your beliefs are. There are no bad religions so explore them!

A good number of years ago, I took a course on World Religions. Not for any religious reasons, curiosity mostly. I learned a great deal about Judaism, Christianity, even Buddism I have to admit that they were all fascinating as I had learned only Catholicism.

I'm not quite sure what exactly brought me back to Catholicism. No great beam of light came down and enlightened me. I think perhaps it was the accepting & nurturing that the Church gives. I was at a point in life that I needed peace. and calm.

I'll probably get flamed to tell you to explore other religions. Maybe Catholicism is right for you. Maybe it's not. You won't find out by just bitching about the religion you were raised in. My problem with that is that it's really just poor manners to badmouth religion, yours or anyone else's.

God bless you on your search. I do hope it will give you peace.

Kamakanani · August 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_his-familys-catholic-wedding-demands?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:6e2a4fb3-3b02-4901-afb5-48b8023f656ePost:519da798-796e-449b-a2cf-46ef22e14f83">Re: HIS Family's Catholic Wedding Demands</a>:
[QUOTE]<span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;" class="Apple-style-span">My fiance and I are both Catholics. Him moreso than I am, I really don't believe in anything and have major issues with the Catholic church. </span>
Posted by travelagent717[/QUOTE]

<div>So, if you say here you don't believe in anything, and have major issues with the Catholic Church, and on a later post, you said you don't consider yourself Catholic, may I ask why you started this entire thread with the sentence "My fiance and I are both Catholics"? Perhaps "were baptized and raised Catholic" would be more appropriate here.</div><div>
</div><div>As someone who has had her own challenges with the Church (though I have returned to Her), I must agree with PP. Marriage is an adult decision not to be taken lightly, whether done in a religious or civil ceremony. Even civil-only marriages can somehow be taken more lightly than they should. It's my humble opinion that if you and FI are making the "adult" decision of marriage, then you should make the "adult" decision of how the marriage will begin. My first marriage was done the way I thought I wanted it at the time. Many of my friends and family disagreed with the choices I made (including the choice to marry my ex in the first place). But, since they loved me and supported <em>me, </em>they found it in their hearts to be supportive and be there for us on the day of the wedding.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm not suggesting you get all "Bridezilla" on his family (you know, "but it's MYYYYYYYYYYY DAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!") but I again agree with PP - you and FI need to make your decision and stick with it. If the family truly loves him/you, hopefully they'll find it in themselves to find a way to be supportive of the decision, even if they don't approve of the decision itself.</div>

Louisa1000 · August 2011

Giving the grandmother the ceremony will not get her what she wants. This catholic ceremony will be invalid. Surely she can understand this. If it is truly your souls she is concerned for, surely as a catholic, she can see that this invalid sham will be worse for your souls than doing without it. Would it be possible to try to reason with her on this? Either she truly hasn't realized it, and there's hope in keeping the peace when you (please!) tell her it's off, or she is really wanting this for social reasons (which seems pointless since you would hide the ceremony). If she is just cermudgeony and won't listen and wants to be controlling for it's own sake, I'm truly sorry, and I agree with pp's. She'll just be that way about something else. Now is the day to set the tone and stand up for yourselves. Good luck.

agapecarrie · August 2011

I'm going to give one more shot at this.

I would hope, and I assuming, that the OP would never go into a church and physically vandalize it-- painting, breaking statues, stealing the Eucharist, etc.

What the OP is planning on doing is the same thing, spiritually. The first statement of intention is "coming freely". another is bringing up kids in the Catholic faith. To lie about these things in a sacrament, in church, to the priest and family, is spiritual vandalism.

prettyirishgirl · August 2011

OK I have read almost all of these so if i recap I'm sorry it was a lot. I did however want to post from an understanding point of view - so maybe it will help, maybe it wont. That is up to you and what you take from this.

I've very new to this board and all of these women have been very helpful to me in a few posts regarding the rules and technical speak of the church. It can look harsh but I believe it is meant with all the best intentions of being informative and trying to help us all make informed educated decisions.

So to my relatable "wisdom" : I was raised catholic I am from New Orleans, my whole family on both sides is still extremely religious. (not that this should matter greatly - but i am one of only 2 granddaughters and the oldest girl second oldest child out of 15+ grandsons (this is the case on both sides oddly enough) - and as a side note this means a lot to them because they are very traditional about heirlooms and handing things down generations etc) When I met my current FI we had a choice to make if I wanted to see him or spend any time with him the only way to do it was for me to move cross country during my breaks and live at his house because I couldnt afford to rent an apartment there as well as keep my mortgage in another state where I went to school. Because of this my grandmother flat out at lunch in the middle of a crowded room told me I was living in sin, was going to hell and I should be ashamed for ever moving into a mans house before I was married and I wasn't even engaged. I'll also throw out there since I'm spilling my life story that we werent even sleeping together because we made a choice when started dating not to because of my religious reasons as well as the practicality of the dent it could put in our relationship since it was long distance and it was bound to add emotion to an already emotionally charged situation, not that I felt the need to scream that across a restaurant at lunchtime. She proceeded to preach at me about church and how i was raised a good catholic girl I was dishonoring my family (I was the first out of my entire family (both sides) to move into someone's house). So believe me when I say my FI and I do understand what you two are going though. This was all after I already had a huge family fight on the other side of my family and my other grandparents disowned my mother and one of her brothers - there-by disowning me and my siblings. It meant everyone on that entire side of my family who I saw daily all of a sudden as an 8th grader stopped speaking to me. My godmother hung up the phone on me saying that the people i was asking for didn't even live there anymore, and it was like that until about a month ago which even now it is not often any of us speak. My grandmother refused to talk to me or see me at anything that wasnt a family function (even then she woudlnt talk to me, she just couldnt help but see me) for about a year and a half until FI and I got engaged. It was so hurtful and painful to not have lost just one side of my family, but then to lose the only grandparent I had left for something that to me was so trivial at the time and although I understand the rules the church has behind it to us we couldn't see each other at all if I didn't go cross country since he couldn't even get off work to come visit me. We made our choice and took the consequences for it, but it was our choice and ours alone to make.

Now you would hope that by getting engaged it would solve all our issues haha! The one thing I ever planned about my wedding, seriously the only thing, was to get married in the church I went to every day, at the school i attended form the age of 2 all the way through 18. And to have a mass and have my family there. Well guess what I cant have mass as of the moment because as we jokingly call my FI (he started the joke btw so we aren't being mean) the heathen isnt baptized so no mass and if you look into some other posts, specifically mine on marrying a non catholic, you would find that the church doesn't consider it a sacrament unless he is baptized. So we can all just imagine how my grandmother will take that news when I see her next week. Now this may not mean anything to you and you may not want the same things as me. In fact it looks like you and the FI both want to have a ceremony outside with an officiate that is very close to you. This is amazing and great! and I think you should stick to your guns. If you and FI want that you need to do what will make you happy.

This is going to sound very melodramatic and depressing, but his grandmother will die and your have to live with your choice. You wedding and marriage is about you and your FI no one else. You need to decide what make you happy and what you are willing to do for your extended family. Coming from a family that has been torn apart because one grandmother is to stubborn to admit she was wrong and another so deeply imbedded in her ideas and feelings not to look past the end of her nose. I would not change my actions. If you want the world to be fair and loving like you said the catholic church should be maybe you can make that step. Accept what they want and forgive them for pushing it on the both of you. They may be being selfish, but it is probably with good intent. But with that same hand make a choice and accept your choice. If you are going to have the church ceremony before you have your other one then do it and accept it and embrace it. If you don't believe in it then don't insult the church that his family holds so highly by receiving a sacrament that you don't want as well as God because do you really think he would want you to go to mass or your own wedding and be sitting there going through the motions and really only thinking why the hell am I doing this it is stupid and useless etc.. If it means that they stop talking to you believe me it is painful. The most painful thing in the word and it isnt fair or right to do that to family. But you live through it and you can forgive them. You can miss what might have been but you get over being upset and you cope. And I'm sure that if I at 13 and again at 20 could deal with basically losing my entire family both sides I'm sure you would find a way to handle it if you had to. Some of us would and are doing anything in our power to be able to get married in a church and have that sacrament, and we aren't doing it for my grandmother or my parents, we are doing it because it is what we want.

ps. forgive any weird spelling or odd word choices my ipad auto correct has a mind of its own and at this length I'm bound to miss something.

Edit add: I also considered when i was confirmed not getting confirmed to the point of a knockdown drag out with my mother and have since studied many different religions and am happy with my choice to be confirmed and proud of being catholic. Every religion, even the lack of one, has it's failings because they are maintained by humans even if their word is from a divine source. remember that when you come to a religion specific board looking for help. It isn't like we are all close minded and set in our ways, following blindly and just accepting doctorate because it was put in front of us.

AmandaSC1988 · August 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_his-familys-catholic-wedding-demands?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:6e2a4fb3-3b02-4901-afb5-48b8023f656ePost:fbf6e3e6-c670-4c8c-8a5b-195d96dde90f">Re: HIS Family's Catholic Wedding Demands</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, we are scheduled for pre-cana this weekend. Are we looking forward to dropping $125 on this? No Posted by travelagent717[/QUOTE]

Tell your story to any priest and they will refuse to marry you. Normally, the Priest has to sign off on your marriage, and if they don't feel you are marrying in the church for the right reasons it is their duty to refuse the sacrament of marriage to you.

I urge you not to lie when you meet with the priest....

lalaith50 · August 2011

Comments like this really bother me, because I LOVE (not) how people have no problem dropping thousands and thousands of dollars on their wedding DAY, but whine about how they have to shell out $125 on a weekend or day which will help them to prepare for their MARRIAGE for the REST of their LIVES.

(I know at least one person for whom the discussion at their pre-cana day was what helped them to realize that this was not the person they should marry! I would say that's worth it!)

monkeysip · August 2011

@ lalaith

Yeah, on that same note, it bothers me when people complain that they had to spend $500-1000 on all the church stuff (church fee, organist, altar servers, etc.), but they're spending $15,000 on the reception. Isn't the ceremony the most important part? Do they not understand how much it costs to run a parish?

ootmother2 · August 2011

After all these replies, I'm going to call MUD.

This is the OP's first and only post on the knot and I'm just not buying her story. I think the twitter comment set my mind off but after all this, she hasn't come back to say anything more.

or maybe I'm just praying that it's MUD

Calypso1977 · August 2011

i honestly dont know who im disgusted with more - OP, her FI, her grandmother or the priest that is actually going to follow through with this sham.

Jay&Marissa · August 2011

In case this truly isn't MUD, I just want to clarify one thing...Catholics have no problem with evolution IN THE CONTEXT of a God-created world. (i.e. evolution was the means God used for creation)

That comment alone leads me to believe you don't have a full understanding of your faith--you *think* you do, based on what others (and the media) say Catholics believe.

I'm also going to guess you have issues with the following, but have never bothered to truly understand the reasons why they are "rules":

--No sex before marriage
--No abortion or artificial birth control
--Women cannot be priests

I'm also going to guess you believe all priests are pedophiles and the Church is a wealthy, corrupt, male-driven organization that hoards money and takes advantage of people

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