Coloring books and toys to church?

ootmother2 · September 2011

Funny, I'm in the middle of write a letter of nursery school recommendation for the son of M's best friends. The little boy will be 2 on Friday.

She asked me because M went to that nursery school and I'm friendly with the director. It's rather fun to think of things that will make this little boy stand out from the other 5,000 applying for a class of 30 (2 classrooms per grade) They are applying to 20 schools in the city, the competition for these spots is tough!

This is very serious business here. The public schools in NYC are sadly lacking (there are exceptions) and private schools are the only out. Parochial schools are closing by the day.

If you want your child to get into a decent primary school, they must attend 2 years nursery school, so that's one consideration.

Another is that they learn to socialize at an early age with all different types of children. If they just mix with family and neighbors, they don't get much exposure to different people, do they?

ETA: My degrees are in Economics and Business Administration, not teaching

doctabroccoli · September 2011

Why has all the fighting occurred lately when I haven't been online? Gah.

Calypso, please do not imply that OOT (or anyone else) is dumb in any sense. That's a line you don't want to cross, and continued use of such wording would put Riss and me in a tough position.

HandBanana · September 2011

Biblio- I compltely agree with you and I often find myself retracting statements about a supposed bad parent. Well, minus when I run into a parent with their kid at my work and if that happens, you are a bad parent.

My mother uses the phrase "There but for the grace of God go each and every one of us." towards judgemental phrases about parenting.

Why can't there be a happy medium between a nurturing parent who provides education and the social environment of a school?\

I just dislike this attitude of blaming parents when you have little knowledge of their entire situation. Most couples economic situation leaves very little opportunity to have a parent at home. My parents were especially unlucky financially but I was blessed to have a grandmother who provided childcare. Not everyone has this kind of support and to make blanket statements about what parents now a days is just a generalization.

It also reaks of the entire "In my day, we did everything right. I use to walk uphill to school, both ways!"

ootmother2 · September 2011

It also reaks of the entire "In my day, we did everything right. I use to walk uphill to school, both ways!"

In the snow and rain, with an armload of books?

We must be related, my parents had to do that too!

Riss91 · September 2011

I think children can succeed in both ways - homeschooled (properly) or in a pre-school setting.

There are pre-schools that are not so great, where a child might be better taught at home. There are also homeschooling parents that are not great and their childen might benefit from going to preschool.

I don't think you can say that one is absoultely wrong and one is absolutely right. And I don't think it is right to tell anyone that their decision will lead to an immarture, poorly educated child.

Regardless of whether your child attends a preschool or not, as a parent you should be heavily involved in their development - both behavior-wise and intellectually. The growth shouldn't start and stop and the doors of the daycare.

Calypso1977 · September 2011

Reported? Seriously? Go ahead.

im still just blown away that somoene would think that as a parent, they cant teach their child how to read. because they dont have a degree. in education.

i would think that as a parent, one of the great joys would be able to teach as many things as possible to your child. my parents never paid for swimming lessons, they taught me how to swim. they taught me to read. they taught me so many things. i also received all my religious ed from my parents. they never sent me to CCD. i grew up very well rounded and was never socially awkward. i ended up in a very social profession.

I just think its a shame that many today have been told by society that they arent capable enough or smart enough to teach their own child things that they themselves are well versed in.

If you want your kid in a preschool, that's fine. but dont do it becuase you think that your kid is going to be a failure otherwise.

HandBanana · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_coloring-books-toys-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9ef4ffd1-c319-46db-98b7-6cab705b32d8Post:fb646fa4-070d-4814-b266-86f561d38d5d">Re: Coloring books and toys to church?</a>:
[QUOTE]It also reaks of the entire "In my day, we did everything right. I use to walk uphill to school, both ways!" In the snow and rain, with an armload of books? We must be related, my parents had to do that too!
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

That or they attended the same school where it was somehow possible to walk uphill coming and going.

catarntina · September 2011

So ... um...

What's the general concensus? Small toys -- such as a doll, an action figure, or a children's picture Bible -- are OK in church as long as they are not distracting to other people up to say the age of 4? And by 5 most children should know how to sit still without toys in church?

I'm not sure what I'll do with this little guy, and I was genuinely curious about how other people felt on that topic. My parents never allowed toys -- but they were pretty strict if we acted up in public. It was something they did not tolerate. My husband has a series of genetic disorders that make it hard for him to sit still -- even at the age of 29 -- so if this little guy happens to inherit them too, I'll have to come up with some kind of 'acceptable' means to make him sit still and not disrupt people in church.

I do like the idea of keeping toys and other things Bible/church related and I think that's very appropriate if the children are sitting quietly.

I didn't mean to start a debate on whether preschool was good for children, or whether parents should homeschool their children.

Calypso1977 · September 2011

I didn't mean to start a debate on whether preschool was good for children, or whether parents should homeschool their children.

you didnt, i did.

ootmother2 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_coloring-books-toys-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:9ef4ffd1-c319-46db-98b7-6cab705b32d8Post:a0f17d6c-d669-4308-b6f3-33a6d3f67129">Re: Coloring books and toys to church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Coloring books and toys to church? : That or they attended the same school where it was somehow possible to walk uphill coming and going.
Posted by HandBanana[/QUOTE]

haha

I heard it from both parents so it must be located somewhere in Massachusetts. ;)There are those crazy hills that just go up but never come down

mica178 · September 2011

I think, in light of what you told us, catarntina, a non-noisy toy like a doll or figure or a Bible-related book would be fine if your child is too young to be able to sit still for the full hour of Mass. Better that the little one be in attendance and quiet than either absent or distracting others, right?

I hate sweeping generalizations, but I think that wise parents know their strengths and weaknesses. My mother isn't the most patient woman, so for things she knew she'd have a hard time teaching, she sent us to school. For things she knew she'd be good at teaching, she taught us. I don't think my parents were wasting money making the decision to get us the best education we could get. It's not like my mother was staring off into space while we were in preschool. She was doing productive, important things during that time too.

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_coloring-books-toys-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9ef4ffd1-c319-46db-98b7-6cab705b32d8Post:54c41aa7-e6f4-4a2e-846c-148b1f0272f3">Re: Coloring books and toys to church?</a>:
[QUOTE]So ... um... What's the general concensus? Small toys -- such as a doll, an action figure, or a children's picture Bible -- are OK in church as long as they are not distracting to other people up to say the age of 4? And by 5 most children should know how to sit still without toys in church? I'm not sure what I'll do with this little guy, and I was genuinely curious about how other people felt on that topic. My parents never allowed toys -- but they were pretty strict if we acted up in public. It was something they did not tolerate. My husband has a series of genetic disorders that make it hard for him to sit still -- even at the age of 29 -- so if this little guy happens to inherit them too, I'll have to come up with some kind of 'acceptable' means to make him sit still and not disrupt people in church. I do like the idea of keeping toys and other things Bible/church related and I think that's very appropriate if the children are sitting quietly. I didn't mean to start a debate on whether preschool was good for children, or whether parents should homeschool their children.
Posted by catarntina[/QUOTE]

I think that most of us can agree that this is fine. I agree with Mica that it is better to have him there and not paying 100% attention (even a child without the distractability would find the attention span long and content difficult to process through mass and would probably do some zoning out anyway) than not there or being a disruption.

Also, did we know it was a him? Either way, congrats! Have you guys picked a name yet? (I"m a name nerd and can't help but ask; feel free to not share if you're not comfortable.)

ootmother2 · September 2011

Bibli, I really hope that you, Meg, & Georgia didn't take offense to the school bashing that went on in this post.

I am well aware of what it takes to teach children and you all have nothing other than my admiration.

Meg1036 · September 2011

I want to apologize for being part of brining this post down. I took exception to Calypso's comments, but I was pretty aggressive about it, and that was wrong.

Also, OOT, I have a PhD, so I'm big on education, and I'm big on things that have been studied and proven. That said, I'm not actually a teacher (anymore - I taught in grad school, of course), so I definitely have no hard feelings about anything said here.

I think that we can all agree - whether we've done it or not - that raising children is difficult, and that there are probably many great ways to do it. And that great teachers are most often part of that mix - so a thank-you to those ladies doing that work.

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

No, OOT, I was not offended at all. I bash schools all the time -- there are myriads of problems in the education system. I just hope to be part of the solution by being a good teacher with high expectations for my students. I also participated in the home schooling bashing, which probably wasn't necessary, so I apologize for that.

In the end, I agree with Church teaching that parents are the child's first teachers and they must make decisions, based on what their options are, what their resources are, etc. that will best benefit the child. I think we can all agree with that.

catarntina · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_coloring-books-toys-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9ef4ffd1-c319-46db-98b7-6cab705b32d8Post:5c4b8b11-22ce-43dc-b8a1-4744edcf9220">Re: Coloring books and toys to church?</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, did we know it was a him? Either way, congrats! Have you guys picked a name yet? (I"m a name nerd and can't help but ask; feel free to not share if you're not comfortable.)
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

I found out at the end of August that it's a HIM! :)

We've decided on "Nathan Robert" as the name.

bibliophile2010 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_coloring-books-toys-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9ef4ffd1-c319-46db-98b7-6cab705b32d8Post:8d15057c-47a7-4492-842e-2e7e8a47fc6e">Re: Coloring books and toys to church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Coloring books and toys to church? : I found out at the end of August that it's a HIM! :) We've decided on "Nathan Robert" as the name.
Posted by catarntina[/QUOTE]

Yay! Great name! I love Nathan, and my life is full of amazing Roberts (seriously, there are like 5 in my phone just under R). How exciting! Is your DH thrilled to be having a boy? I feel like many of the guys I know "don't care" until they find out it's a boy and then the testosterone kicks into high gear and they are psyched!

MopsieB · September 2011

NO! I don't know what has happened to church in the last 10 years, but they all seem to have torn out their cry rooms (remember those?) and seem to think that all of us attending Mass should have to put up with their screaming, disrespectful kids. My mother used to leave my brother home with my dad sometimes when he was very young. They also used to take turns in restaurants when we would be on vacation. It's called being respectful of others- a value nearly every parent I meet today could use. I don't understand why the church won't address this. A couple weeks ago, we were visiting my husband's mother in the Kansas City area and we went to mass at her church. There was a girl who had to have been 10 years old, who was coloring and playing with dolls and looking around and not facing the altar...Let me just say that my mother wouldn't have tolerated that for two seconds when I was that age (and younger!) I have a five-year-old nephew who is able to sit and be quiet in church for an hour but even so, I wonder what my brother is doing to educate him about God. The pull-outs for children are a good idea. Special masses for children are a good idea. But until pastors get it together make it clear that your children need to have respect in church, this idiotic brand of "parenting" will continue. As a single person, I felt very excluded from the church and now as a married person with no kids, it continues. It seems as though there is no respect for anyone until and unless they choose to have children. And I don't understand that.

Coloring books and toys to church?

Re: Coloring books and toys to church?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards