Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)

misssunshine17 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:c8e91fe5-912f-4867-a464-7e5835afc1cf">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>Since you don't work for a religiously affiliated employer, I'd talk to HR. What she is doing is harassment.</strong>
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

<div>This. I would refuse to discuss anything but work related things with this person. </div>

musicalsunlight · April 2012

I fail to see what reporting to HR will do unless it becomes an continued issue that makes it hard for you to work in a such a hostile environment. I agree with Dmill. Leave it be for now and serve for a lesson of what not to bring up anymore. She was out of line talking to you like that, but if it is a one time thing, I'd just drop it.

allisong23 · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:d009a9c9-12ea-4509-9f23-e7b03362ea1a">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]Honestly, I would refuse to discuss anything of a religious nature with anyone you work with, or while at a work event in the future (including any other companies you work for in the future) That's one of those things that people will judge you for, right or wrong, people do it. Sure it's against the law for them to treat you differently and they shouldn't be able to get away with it, but honestly if everyone in the office is the same way, it's probably not going to do you any good to complain. Unless they outright say "we're giving you X disciplinary action because we don't see eye to eye on religious beliefs" it's your word against theirs and it'll most likely just make things more uncomfortable. I'm sure a lot of people don't agree with me.
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

I think you are right, unfortunately. I swould stay far away from the subject, and if they continue to bring it up, go to HR.

Anysunrise · April 2012

Yeah, I've told a couple people at work because they've outright asked me, and they've all been absolutely baffled that I don't believe in God. None of them have ever gone off on me like that though, I think the worst I got was a "Well, I wish you weren't, but I'm not going to try and convert you."

That said, I'd take PPs' advice and just not ever bring it up again. If she continues in such an agressive manner, then I'd see about HR and lawyers and all that.

egeurts · April 2012

Fun Facts about Christmas (from an atheist attending divinity school):

-No one knows when Jesus was born, it's theorized in April, but they just picked December because that's when it was convenient due to pagan holidays (thus the tree).

-Only Luke and Matthew have Nativity stories, and it's possible that they were not original to the Gospels; they were possibly later additions.

- When it comes to presents, no one knows how many magi there were. The bible says 3 gifts, but its only assumed that there were three magi to bring them, for all we know, it could be one guy with 3 presents, or 10 guys with 3 presents. Oh- and we don't know if there even were magi, one gospel has magi and one has shepherds. Most people conflate the gospels and show both.

- Jesus wasn't born in the manger. He was born in a cave and only later did they get to town. (fun fact about the virgin Mary, to prove her virginity post-birth, the midwife inspected her and her hand fell off after touching her intact hymen).

- Never forget, Jesus was Jewish.

That's all I've got for now, but next time someone brings up Christmas... whip out one of those fun facts.

Oh, and ya know, the idea of the afterlife varied greatly in the ancient world than it does for us. It wasn't until 40-50 years after Jesus died and people were starting to realize that he hadn't come back yet that they might need to amend their plan and the idea of an afterlife to consider what it might include to be in for the long haul here on earth. "1 day in heaven is 1000 years on earth" - 2 Peter

gaiajuliacaesar · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:89232c63-446e-4d2b-ac0f-9a0ae8d58eea">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz) : Oh ffs, why do some religious people think they can basically threaten others into converting? Unfortunately, I think pps are right in that she or other employees would have to say something on the jobsite for it to be something you can complain about.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

That's the problem. Those people have RELIGION. Not FAITH. At any rate, If this gal was truly in Christ, she would be listening to his word. "LOVE EVERYONE AS I LOVE YOU". I agree with everyone here. Except the Buddha sticker thing. It was funny, but I think you're trying to avoid conflict. Might I ask that you are coming from a "religious" locus? Depending on what area of the country you live in, you may (unfortunately) need to tread carefully.

Viczaesar · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:c4cef7ee-3329-4037-b22f-1c0c0deb35b6">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]Fun Facts about Christmas (from an atheist attending divinity school): -No one knows when Jesus was born, it's theorized in April, but they just picked December because that's when it was convenient due to pagan holidays (thus the tree). -Only Luke and Matthew have Nativity stories, and it's possible that they were not original to the Gospels; they were possibly later additions. - When it comes to presents, no one knows how many magi there were. The bible says 3 gifts, but its only assumed that there were three magi to bring them, for all we know, it could be one guy with 3 presents, or 10 guys with 3 presents. Oh- and we don't know if there even were magi, one gospel has magi and one has shepherds. Most people conflate the gospels and show both. - <strong>Jesus wasn't born in the manger. He was born in a cave and only later did they get to town. (fun fact about the virgin Mary, to prove her virginity post-birth, the midwife inspected her and her hand fell off after touching her intact hymen)</strong>. - Never forget, Jesus was Jewish. That's all I've got for now, but next time someone brings up Christmas... whip out one of those fun facts. Oh, and ya know, the idea of the afterlife varied greatly in the ancient world than it does for us. It wasn't until 40-50 years after Jesus died and people were starting to realize that he hadn't come back yet that they might need to amend their plan and the idea of an afterlife to consider what it might include to be in for the long haul here on earth. "1 day in heaven is 1000 years on earth" - 2 Peter
Posted by egeurts[/QUOTE]
Why would you privilege the Infancy Gospel of James over the canonical gospels? It was probably written ~150 CE, as opposed to the late first century dating of Matthew and Luke. I think you're using the word "fact" a bit disingenuously.

egeurts · April 2012

No one knows the dating on the Infancy Gospel of James, and just because it wasn't canonized doesn't mean its less legitimate- at least from a historical perspective.

I will concede that "fact" when referring to biblical trivia is a loose term.

Starqueg · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:b060fed8-95a0-4319-acbb-a7f1e84f7de4">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]Clearly if you are not Christian it would be inappropriate to have a decorative tree in your house or hang colorful socks. FFS.
Posted by jsbt2014[/QUOTE]
My fiance's mother is Jewish, father is Episcopalian. We spent the first night of Hanukkah decorating the Christmas tree and then playing dreidel under it. After lighting about 6 different menorahs. It was wonderful.

monkeysip · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:9d726782-2a4e-4f67-a5d6-9fa0bc4c8347">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz) : <strong>That's the problem. Those people have RELIGION. Not FAITH. </strong>At any rate, If this gal was truly in Christ, she would be listening to his word. "LOVE EVERYONE AS I LOVE YOU". I agree with everyone here. Except the Buddha sticker thing. It was funny, but I think you're trying to avoid conflict. Might I ask that you are coming from a "religious" locus? Depending on what area of the country you live in, you may (unfortunately) need to tread carefully.
Posted by gaiajuliacaesar[/QUOTE]

You may not have meant it this way, but I'm slightly offended by this. To me, my religion is my faith. I don't view religion as the problem. I view hypocrisy as the problem (a problem for both religious and non-religious people).

monkeysip · April 2012

I've never heard of a dating of the infancy gospel of thomas before the 2nd century.

Also, there was a common tradition in the early church to celebrate Jesus' conception around the time of the passover. This would place his birth around december. That's why it eventually got assigned to that.

Of course, I'm not trying to argue that Jesus was definitely born on december 25th or even in december. I'm just saying that date wasn't pulled out of nowhere. Obviously it doesn't really matter which day he was born.

Simply Fated · April 2012

"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."

Viczaesar · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:68295329-4448-430b-9843-463ecbcc162e">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]No one knows the dating on the Infancy Gospel of James, and just because it wasn't canonized doesn't mean its less legitimate- at least from a historical perspective. I will concede that "fact" when referring to biblical trivia is a loose term.
Posted by egeurts[/QUOTE]
We have just as good an idea of the dating of the IGOJ as the canonical gospels, and I never said that the fact that the canonical gospels are canonical means that they're more legitimate from a historical sense. However, they are the earliest gospels that we've recovered, possibly barring the Gospel of Thomas, and yes, the fact that they contain earlier traditions than the IGOJ and were written down a good 50-70 years before the IGOJ does mean something. You're misusing the evidence if you're claiming that the IGOJ is more "factual" than the canonical gospels. What the IGOJ really shows us is how the issue of Mary's virginity and the concept of perpetual virginity was being worked out by some Christian communities in the second century. Similar to how the Infancy Gospel of Thomas was working out the question of whether or not Jesus was divine from birth.

Viczaesar · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:68295329-4448-430b-9843-463ecbcc162e">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]No one knows the dating on the Infancy Gospel of James, and just because it wasn't canonized doesn't mean its less legitimate- at least from a historical perspective. <strong>I will concede that "fact" when referring to biblical trivia is a loose term. </strong>
Posted by egeurts[/QUOTE]
Also, referring to the bolded, you can indeed talk about fact when referring to Biblical trivia. Just not some of the things you claimed as fact.

And for the record, I'm non-religious, have a Masters in Theological Studies, and am working on my PhD in Religious Studies, specializing in early Christian identity formation and non-canonical gospels.

egeurts · April 2012

Ok, one of the reasons I posted the story from the IGOJ is that it's one of my favorites, and no one recognizes it (because they either don't know about it, or because it's non canonical), it is simply an alternative version of Jesus' birth. If someone brings up the nativity, it is one possible story that you can bring up in response- no one has to.

gaiajuliacaesar · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:e57e471c-85a1-4dab-a452-c6b4a59badb6">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz) : You may not have meant it this way, but I'm slightly offended by this. To me, my religion is my faith. I don't view religion as the problem. I view hypocrisy as the problem (a problem for both religious and non-religious people).
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

Not my intent at all and thank you for calling attention to my lack of explanation on my view. What I am getting at is something my Pastor was talking about in a sermon. You get people who think that because they go through the motions and read the bible and can quote it (The list can go on) they have faith and therefore are righteous enough to condemn and judge everyone else around them. Hypocrisy, yes. So they think they have faith, when in fact all they are doing is the "religion" part, and a step further by judging and pointing fingers. They never point the fingers at themselves. If this girl believes she was doing her "mission" she is going about it in a messed up sort of way. I have seen people turn to Jesus with a gentle nudge here and there more quickly than pointing fingers. Hostility and hypocrisy do not lead people to Jesus. The religion part does not apply to everyone. You can have both faith and religion. In fact, I think it quite nice if you do! :)

monkeysip · April 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_welli-didnt-expect-that-non-religious-people-help-plz?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ef0702db-d532-4d15-8209-a8ce7ded2a5cPost:795c1445-d481-4d33-9f0d-8706bf4fe7c1">Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz) : Not my intent at all and thank you for calling attention to my lack of explanation on my view. What I am getting at is something my Pastor was talking about in a sermon. You get people who think that because they go through the motions and read the bible and can quote it (The list can go on) they have faith and therefore are righteous enough to condemn and judge everyone else around them. Hypocrisy, yes. So they think they have faith, when in fact all they are doing is the "religion" part, and a step further by judging and pointing fingers. They never point the fingers at themselves. If this girl believes she was doing her "mission" she is going about it in a messed up sort of way. I have seen people turn to Jesus with a gentle nudge here and there more quickly than pointing fingers. Hostility and hypocrisy do not lead people to Jesus. The religion part does not apply to everyone. You can have both faith and religion. In fact, I think it quite nice if you do! :)
Posted by gaiajuliacaesar[/QUOTE]

Thank you for clarifying, and yes, I agree.

I also think some people are just a**holes, and they use their beliefs (whether religious or atheist) as an excuse sometimes.

brittneyh4 · April 2012

I'm w/ Gaia on this one...my pastor says we must beware of the "bible thumping religious folk" and seek fellowship with the spiritual. Religion/faith to my church is about having a relationship with God, and loving others even if you don't want to/it's "too hard" to. Our church is soo laid back that if my pastor heard there was someone from our church doing this, he would ask them to leave. Hostility is NOT the way to give testimony. Living your life is the best way.

OP, I'm sorry you had to deal with crazypants coworker, but know we're not all like that! I wouldn't discuss this anymore with her and if there is an issue during work (I'm sure now everyone knows what a rotten non believer you are by now! *note sarcasm*) I would go to HR for harassment. If you gave them all a load of crap about being religious and how stupid they are for believing in God and thinking there is afterlife, you would probably be fired. Double standards aren't okay.

jkott31316 · April 2012

Not sure where you live, but I am a not a religous person and I live in the south (shocker....) and I see situations like this all of the time. Anyways, people are suggesting that you complain to HR, etc. I have to say as sad as it is: complaining about the treatment to HR or someone else probably will not do anything. It seems like these ppl have their views set and will not change...regardless of who slaps them on the wrist. If practically the entire office behaves in this manner, then it is highly unlikely that they will be given a punishment that results in anything more than a slap on the wrist. My advice? Suck it up and ignore it or look for another job. Unfortunately, in this economy your best bet is to just ignore it.

In the future: no politics and/or religion should be brought up at work....it never ends well.

jeffsgirl505 · April 2012

There are several things you should not bring up in the work place and religion is one of those things. If you are harassed at all over your gender, sexuality, religious beliefs, or race you have the right to report that person. I'm agnostic and it's very hard to work around people like that. (My own sister says stupid crap like that to me.) It's a challenge. You kind of just have to smile and say "Thanks but no thanks.'" But seriously, unless you work for a religious organization or a church, I'd report that girl. TOTALLY UNPROFESSIONAL. NOT TO MENTION JUST FLAT OUT WACKY. GOOD LUCK! From one non-believer to another. LOL!

pomundson0 · April 2012

google 'pagan origins of christian holidays' and if she bring it up again, feel free to share the knowledge

I live in a very religious area, and at work have had to bite my toungue many a time simply to not rock the boat. I had one coworker who honestly didn't care what I was, we were both good people who had our theories on how things worked, and it was GREAT. At the same company I was in another building temporarily, and during lunch breaks it was bible study, and I wasn't comfortable simply because I was afraid I was going to get asked and treated differently or harassed. Here in South Carolina they don't need a reason to fire you, they just can, so I felt I had to stay under the radar. I agree to document it, just in case things progress in a negative fashion, so you have some evidence of discrimination.

Good luck!

Well...I didn't expect that (non religious people help plz)

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