This just makes me sick.

shanding4787 · October 2012

I dont know how someone could live with themselves after something like this...wrong, just plain wrong.

http://www.kmov.com/home/Lawsuit-filed-against-local-clinic-after-baby-decapitated-during-birth-173379051.html

shanding4787 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:3a7c2160-25d3-4d5c-8a37-1758d5b2b448">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]Well, maybe you'll get lucky and the offending doctor and his team will all commit suicide. Would that make you feel better?
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

If he did, I wouldn't be upset about it. My sisters have all delivered in this hospital as have many of my friends. It hits a little close to home.

courtski2004 · October 2012

OMFG, I used to live in Creve Coeur! That story is so sad. I would imagine that if, as a doctor, you had to pull so hard on the baby's head that it would separate from the spine, you are doing something very wrong.

How could they live with themselves? It isn't like it was an intentional act. I'm sure it affected the doctor who did it in some capacity though.

shanding4787 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:26939718-e39c-4f4b-967d-190f4943a688">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]OMFG, I used to live in Creve Coeur! That story is so sad. I would imagine that if, as a doctor, you had to pull so hard on the baby's head that it would separate from the spine, you are doing something very wrong. How could they live with themselves? It isn't like it was an intentional act. I'm sure it affected the doctor who did it in some capacity though.
Posted by courtski2004[/QUOTE]

The fact that he tried to hide it is what's inexcusable.

shanding4787 · October 2012

That assclown is not in a low paying job by any means...and exactly HIGH risk. He knew she needed a c section and was scheduled for it and chose not to do it, therefore killing the baby.

shanding4787 · October 2012

No he hid the fact that that's what happened.. he didn't tell them that's why the baby had gauze around its neck.

lyndausvi · October 2012

Yeah, I'm not sure what the right procedure is for presenting a decapitated baby to a parent. Giving them the baby in "parts" doesn't seem correct either. I'm sure not showing them at all wasn't an option either. Basically I don't think there is a right answer here. I would think the way they did it was the lesser of 2 evils.

lyndausvi · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:9f8d4e77-1d96-4abb-90e6-2d71e00bf938">Re:This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]No he hid the fact that that's what happened.. he didn't tell them that's why the baby had gauze around its neck.
Posted by shanding4787[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>wait you actually think he was trying to hide the fact the baby was decapitated. Fairly sure that would come out in the autopsy. Unless the doctor was completely traumatize at the situation and just went into complete shock, I have a hard time believing he was trying to hide the fact, and was more than likely trying to make it "less" traumatic (if that is even possible).</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

courtski2004 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:30732807-0533-45a0-ada7-666af1809933">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This just makes me sick. : The fact that he tried to hide it is what's inexcusable.
Posted by shanding4787[/QUOTE]

Ok, gotcha. I didn't see that the first time I read it.

I just don't understand the logic of wrapping gauze around the neck to hide the fact that the head is not attached to the body. This whole story is confusing to me. I was just envisioning an internal decapitation where the head was just no longer attached to the spinal cord. Is it possible that the parents were just in such complete shock that they don't recall the entire 'presentation' of the facts accurately? I feel like that is just something that you couldn't miss. I'm not blaming the parents here, I just don't know how you could just <em>not</em> know.

lyndausvi · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:06444525-5b31-4ee9-8a5b-489126a3baac">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This just makes me sick. : Ok, gotcha. I didn't see that the first time I read it. I just don't understand the logic of wrapping gauze around the neck to hide the fact that the head is not attached to the body. This whole story is confusing to me. I was just envisioning an internal decapitation where the head was just no longer attached to the spinal cord. Is it possible that the parents were just in such complete shock that they don't recall the entire 'presentation' of the facts accurately? I feel like that is just something that you couldn't miss. I'm not blaming the parents here, I just don't know how you could just not know.
Posted by courtski2004[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I think the baby was internally decaptated, but they had to be physcially decapited in order to get it out of the canal. Again, I don't really see how this could have gone 'well' either way. Either the parents get a baby in parts, or they see the dead baby in one piece. Either way the baby is dead and it's pretty traumtic.

</div>

freebread03 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:9b1698f6-195d-4451-ab72-6d0959b20125">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This just makes me sick. : If he did, I wouldn't be upset about it. My sisters have all delivered in this hospital as have many of my friends. It hits a little close to home.
Posted by shanding4787[/QUOTE]

<div>While this article is really horrible, it's actually you who makes ME sick. I can't imagine thinking that someone deserves to die for an unintentional mistake, no matter how grave. Are you an obstetrician yourself or do you work in that hospital? Because if you don't, I don't think you have any ground to stand on when it comes to speaking authoritatively about what was right or wrong in this situation. (I'm also assuming you're not some other type of medical expert who could appropriately analyze this situation).</div><div>
</div><div>Horrible thing that happened, yes, but definitely no reason that someone should committ suicide or not be able to live with themselves as you so pleasantly stated.</div>

Shlby81 · October 2012

That is awful ans sad, but I don't think the Doctors deserve to dye. They probley feel bad enough.

shanding4787 · October 2012

Yes maybe I was a little irrational earlier...no he shouldn't die but I still think it's a horrible thing that he chose not to do a scheduled c section and an innocent life was lost because of it. And yes I do have a lot of insight on the details because FI and his parents all work for the hospital

freebread03 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:849a6c53-27d2-42f5-99cf-af3643a634c5">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes maybe I was a little irrational earlier...no he shouldn't die but I still think it's a horrible thing that he chose not to do a scheduled c section and an innocent life was lost because of it. And yes I do have a lot of insight on the details because FI and his parents all work for the hospital
Posted by shanding4787[/QUOTE]

<div>Well, I'm pretty sure your FI is probably violating HIPAA; and now you've just shared all of that on the internet to a bunch of strangers. I'm sure the family would really appreciate you sharing this with a bunch of strangers. Before you judge others like you judged these doctors so hastily, I think you need to look at yourself and what kind of person YOU are. </div>

shanding4787 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:929c13fe-d763-4e59-a138-48715463ee6f">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This just makes me sick. : Well, I'm pretty sure your FI is probably violating HIPAA; and now you've just shared all of that on the internet to a bunch of strangers. I'm sure the family would really appreciate you sharing this with a bunch of strangers. Before you judge others like you judged these doctors so hastily, I think you need to look at yourself and what kind of person YOU are.
Posted by freebread03[/QUOTE]

He hasn't revealed anyone that hasn't already been in the news.

afeliz79 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:e7038307-983c-459e-987d-76c868c3e321">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]Christ on a christmas tree. Whatever. You obviously have deep extending personal knowledge into facts that the rest of us don't know. I can only assume you were IN the room, or know this couple personally, because you have all sorts of information that isn't in the article you posted. You think people should DIE for mistakes. That's fine, that's your opinion. I think YOU are overly emotional and bloodthirsty with a complete lack of empathy, who jumps to conclusions and then refuses to back off and consider other scenarios, and that you're probably the kind of American that is the reason other countries hate us. That's my opinion.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

This is my opinion too! I know you have now said you were rash earlier, but, seriously! If that is your first reaction, you lack empathy, and that is what makes me sad.

J&K10910 · October 2012

How can you have more insight into the details than everyone else if they haven't revealed anything that hasn't been in the news? Does it hurt your legs to peddle backwards so quickly?

J&K10910 · October 2012

Ok, I just read the article. When they say "hid the neck wound" I absolutely read that as "hid it from view", not "tried to pretend it didn't happen." I do not for one second believe that he showed them that baby without first telling them what happened.

sonya+adam · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:4903a2f5-1def-455e-86a8-15f8b73d28c9">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This just makes me sick. : He hasn't revealed anyone that hasn't already been in the news.
Posted by shanding4787[/QUOTE]

<div>Clearly he has, if a lot of what you are saying isn't even in the article. </div><div>
</div><div>Yes, it's awful that this happened, but when you're a doctor, things happen, and unfortunately not everything goes as planned. I don't think that he really tried to hide the fact that the baby was decapitated. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If it was a normal vaginal birth, the mother had to have been awake to push, so she would have been aware of what was going on. If he had to pull that hard, I'm assuming that the head was already outside of the birth canal and the enlarged abdomen is what got stuck in the canal. It would have been clear what happened, what with the blood gushing everywhere, as the article said.</div>

samantha24p · October 2012

Something like this happened in Okeechobee, Fl years ago. It was awful.

BriLeigh89 · October 2012

My friend and her husband lost their first baby because he was too big and she needed a c section but the doctor told her to just keep pushing and it crushed his scull, they were devastated and almost got divorced but thankfully they got through it..... that was about a yr ago and she is about to have their first but technically second child. it is traumatic when this happens and you do for a time blame the doctors but things happen and we have a good bit of technology now but even my friend knows that its still not an exact science. She is not entirely healed over the loss of their baby, she never will be, but she never has stated her dr should die, nor does she blame him for it. it was a mistake and horrible as it was it happens. I was supposed to have twins when I had my son but I miscarried one... it was traumatic but I'm ok. things just happen but ppl can heal and move on so I send sympathy and prayers for both the parents and their family but also to the medical staff because no one who works in the maternity ward "purposely" kills a baby. Its just a sad/horrific experience that makes me grateful for what I have.

Avion22 · October 2012

One in four people loses a friend, relative, or loved-one to suicide. I am one of them -- I lost my first husbad to suicide five years ago this week. Suggesting that someone should end their own life, or that you wouldn't be upset if they did is HORRIBLY offensive to those of us who have actually lived through that kind of pain. Shame on you.

lyndausvi · October 2012

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216497/Doctors-decapitated-baby-birth-tried-hide-parents-dead-infant-delivered-C-section.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

This article gives a little more detail. But again, I can't really jump on the bandwagon that he concealed the wound and really think he just concealed the view. Which is different in my opinion. Handing already traumatize parents a head then a body doesn't seem like a good plan either. Not letting see the child at all wasn't even an option either.

I think he acted in good faith trying to let the parent's view the child in the best possible way given the situation. Even funeral homes make-up bodies to look the best possible way for family and friends, regardless of how they die.

ETA - I'm also commenting on that part of the lawsuit. I think the lawsuit in general is valid.

On another note, it's odd to find a doctor who refuses a c-section when reports are doctors are c-section happy.

J&K10910 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:df35da44-3a3c-44a9-b257-c61a12974a1f">Re:This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]Exactly. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an investigation, though i imagine there already was. I'm not saying he shouldn't maybe deserve to lose his license depending on the outcome. I'm not even saying the couple shouldn't sue him. I just think acting like he had malicious intent or implying that he's not remorseful and haunted by the experience is cold and unfeeling.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Precisely.

Plus, sharing information that shouldn't have been shared with you in the first place , and admitting that someone in your family is guilty of a HUGE HIPAA violation is idiotic.

GoodLuckBear14 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:849a6c53-27d2-42f5-99cf-af3643a634c5">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes maybe I was a little irrational earlier...no he shouldn't die but I still think it's a horrible thing that he chose not to do a scheduled c section and an innocent life was lost because of it. And yes I do have a lot of insight on the details because FI and his parents all work for the hospital
Posted by shanding4787[/QUOTE]

Doing what? Unless they have direct knowledge as either a doctor or RN who was in the delivery room or are supervising doctors or are legal counsel, they know jack. If they are any of these people and they are discussing this case with you, they are violating HIPAA and if they are legal counsel they are violating the canons of practice and can be brought up on disciplinary charges before the state Supreme Court. I'm going with your relatives know rumors and gossip.

Ali092011 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:df35da44-3a3c-44a9-b257-c61a12974a1f">Re:This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]Exactly. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an investigation, though i imagine there already was. I'm not saying he shouldn't maybe deserve to lose his license depending on the outcome. I'm not even saying the couple shouldn't sue him.<strong> I just think acting like he had malicious intent or implying that he's not remorseful and haunted by the experience is cold and unfeeling.</strong>
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I have an acquaintance who's an ER surgeon. She mourns every single person she's ever not been able to save. When you're in a high-pressure situation and you have to act immediately, you may make the wrong decision despite years of training and experience. There are often several ways you can approach a problem. This doctor did the wrong thing, but not because he didn't care to do his job right or was incompetent.

GoodLuckBear14 · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:805877ba-db59-4395-9e28-8b80fb305167">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This just makes me sick. : I was waiting for you to drop by.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

I had to stop myself from discussing my time practicing med mal and the bad baby cases. They are just heartbreaking and I never once saw a doctor who wan't torn apart over them either. That's not to say that there are not some who really need to specialize in another area.

beardo1111 · October 2012

Speaking from a doctor's point-of-view - OP you are sick. Suggesting that a physician who made a mistake should kill themselves makes you a horrible person. Bottom line is you have NO IDEA what really happened unless you were there. And your fiancee sharing anything with you is a HUGE HIPPA violation - if you don't get that both of you should re-read the law.

I hope you think long and hard about how YOU live with yourself on a daily basis. Beats me.

RMcDougle · October 2012

This is definitely a horrible and traumatic way to lose a child, and I hope that the parents stay strong

Very sad..

But what a horrifying way to lose a patient too, right? I'm sure even a seasoned doctor would be traumatized by something like this

Also, it's unfair to make assumptions without truly knowing all of the circumstances. There are a variety of reasons why a doctor would reasonably decide to change the delivery plan. A C-section is a major surgery and is sometimes very risky to the mother, so who knows what the justifications were.

emichele87 · October 2012

I don't get how a doctor can refuse to do a C-section when it was the birth plan to begin with. And couldn't it be verifyed by the chart or records? That's the part that is inexcusable to me. There was a pre-existing condition surrounding the birth, the doctor should have followed the plan already laid out to avoid complications in what was a high risk birth.

RMcDougle · October 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_this-just-makes-me-sick?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4c6f7b13-3c0c-4615-a02f-9db9d7023dafPost:1462468c-0fac-47b1-b155-6036cd88de78">Re: This just makes me sick.</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get how a doctor can refuse to do a C-section when it was the birth plan to begin with. And couldn't it be verifyed by the chart or records? That's the part that is inexcusable to me. There was a pre-existing condition surrounding the birth, the doctor should have followed the plan already laid out to avoid complications in what was a high risk birth.
Posted by emichele87[/QUOTE]

Yeah you're probably right, I just meant that I would hope/assume there were justifications to change the delivery plan. Maybe the mother had grossly uncontrollled diabetes and the risk of infection post-operation outweighed the risks of vaginal delivery. Or maybe the relative size of the baby in the final ultrasound indicated that vaginal birth was favorable. I'm not entirely familiar with what circumstances favor vaginal vs. c-section.. but we don't know those details based on a simiplified (and could be dramatized) news article.

Still none of this belittles the loss of those parents. It's just upsetting when people demonize a doctor who made a mistake.

This just makes me sick.

Re: This just makes me sick.

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