I've deleted this post to the best of my ability

smithca88 · June 2010

Thanks to all the people that gave me great ideas for my wedding.
However, due to the controversy I've just deleted as much of this post I could so that this will stop being so offensive to everyone.

I'm sorry to those that I did offend with my opinions.

I hope all of you have your amazing dream wedding with everything you've ever dreamed of or wanted in them, just like I hopemy FI and I will.

aerinpegadrak · June 2010

I'm sorry, I'd walk out of any wedding where Confederate flags were displayed without hesitation, and probably would seriously reconsider my relationship with the couple. How awful.

Pirata13 · June 2010

You put this out on a public message board so put your Big Girl Pants on and deal with the fact that people are telling you honestly that you run a great risk in offending your guests by outright displaying the Confederate flags? Are you also going to let guests know that it is acceptable to wear KKK robes and hoods?

If I walked into a wedding saw Confederate flags openly displayed, I would take my gift and hightail it out of there.

Just because part of my heritage is Crow Indian doesn't mean I should have pictures up of a Crow Indian scalping his enemy. Learn that there is a line you have to draw on things, and the Confederate flag is one of them.

tldh · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:aa8aca4f-c4db-41a5-bd4d-4c31e59055f1">Re: plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't believe there offensive there part of the southern heritage. My fiancee and I have several hanging up in our house and its something he would greatly like to incorperate into the wedding since it is his heritage. If they don't offend any of our guest I don't see the problem in using them as accents, its not as if I'm decorating the whole reception hall in rebel flags.
Posted by smithca88[/QUOTE]

No matter how you try to spin it, that flag has become a universal symbol for hatred. However, it is part of our country's heritage which is why I said they don't belong anywhere but on a re-enactment battlefield.

tldh · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:2bc33bab-ed37-4c83-98f4-aa886ff5f571">Re: plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>The american flag is offensive to me but no one apologizes when they display it on the forth of july or any other time of the year.</strong> So why should I apologize for displaying the confederate flag? Personally though I think that since this topic was about ideas for a Southern Plantation Themed Wedding we should get back on topic, and stop bashing one wedding idea that was brought up.
Posted by smithca88[/QUOTE]

You do realize that you are an American right? I take it from this post that you wish the south had won the war. If not, why would your country's flag offend you.

jenn.daniel · June 2010

I don't think the confederate flag would be tacky. If you think your guests will have a problem with it, use your state flag. Either way, it says "states' rights" to me.

Apparently having a bridal portrait of you displayed at the reception is common in the south. Also a groom's cake.

Have plenty of sweet tea. Could your transportation be a horse-drawn carriage? Fans as favors.

Do you like Gone with the Wind? How about a cake topper?

bbyckes · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:121628cf-3926-44a2-9656-d10639aed90a">Re: plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]Would rebel flags be to tacky at a reception even if there in small accents like the guest books, napkins, ect.?
Posted by smithca88[/QUOTE]

Are you effin' kidding me? I knew there was a reason why I was avoiding this flippin' post. What about lawn jockeys and mammies too, right? This is so effin' offensive.

cuddleberry · June 2010

Is the flag itself tacky...no. Its what the flag represents that has everyone in an uproar. While I agree with what they are saying it is YOUR wedding. DO what you want. Just be mindful of your guests feelings, and if you think it may be tacky, most likely it is. Just my $.08.

jedaniel · June 2010

OMG I cant believe you actually thought of having confederate flags at your wedding. When I read that, I started laughing because that is ridiculous. I'm from Texas and that wouldnt even be ok down this south.

MAGNUM06 · June 2010

It's unfortunate and most of all sad that you even have to ask this question. "Would the Confederate flag be offensive?" Of course, it is YOUR wedding and you should absolutely do what you and your FI are comfortable with...

If you even have to consider it... That is your answer.... Yes, in alot of circles, the flag as well as the representation of it IS OFFENSIVE.... Yes, it is a part of your history, just as it is anyone else's that has been born and raised in the United States. That goes without saying... but at some point, one must exercise common sense. In this case, you must consider your crowd....You stated you have the flags displayed in your home.. and if your crowd does too.. then no-one will be offended... but if you invite anyone of any ethnicity or different from you.... They are offended... and that's all that they will remember.

I see that you are either from or atleast live in North Carolina.... With that being said, you KNOW EXACTLY what the flag represents as well as any hidden inuendo behind it.

I'm sure, if you exercise some creativity, you can execute your Old South/Plantion theme wedding with the utmost taste and beauty. There is much about the south that is beautiful.

In closing.... Do your thing!!! and let the chips fall where they may.

missrekaeagle · June 2010

This post just made me ashamed of the state I've called my home for my entire life. Yes a rebel flag is tacky and offensive. But honestly, it is your wedding and of course you will choose to do what you wish.

IFEFAD · June 2010

Ok sweetie, you asked a question and people responded so deal with the responses. Do i think it is tacky---YES. I also think it is tasteless and CLASSLESS to have NOT ONLY A CONFEDERATE FLAG but a SOUTHERN PLANTATION WEDDING but then again, that is his history and he must be proud of the actions of his ancestors. Do as you please though because it is YOUR day and as long as you are happy in your skin, GOOD FOR YOU.

mattesmagic · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:1d8f02ac-2edd-4078-bfef-2905b447165d">plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]I have decided to incorperate my fiancees family history into our wedding and go with a Old South/Plantion theme wedding. The only problem I have is not knowing how to exactly go about putting this theme together without it going over the top with hoop skirts and the whole nine yrds. Any ideas on how I can subtly do this theme?
Posted by smithca88[/QUOTE]

Original post....just in case....

Catwoman708 · June 2010

"your right I did ask, but I asked if it would be tacky? I did not ask if it was offensive"

Yes Honey Chile, having a Confederate flag displayed at your wedding IS TACKY, very tacky actually, because it is offensive. Not just to them damn Yankees or the "coloreds" either, but to a large portion of the population, even true Southerners. It is a symbol and reminder of a tragic period in American history, and a symbol of oppression and slavery. Much like a swastika is a symbol of the haulocast.

Now, about your dream wedding .... I am picturing a "Southern plantation/old South" theme wedding as elegant, refined, traditional, and ultra charming and mannerly. Guests sipping iced tea, mint juleps, champagne punch or mimosas. White magnolias, gardenias and roses. Porch swings, program/fan favors, table linens, china, and stemware.  Like something right out of a Southern Living magazine. Are you picturing this too?

Nowhere in that picturesque vision is a confederate flag.  A conferderate flag does not say "elegant and timeless", it screams REDNECK and PREJUDICE.

If you insist on displaying the confederate flag, then you simply must have a coon dog for a ring bearer, a barefoot flower girl walking down the aisle sipping a bottle of Dr. Pepper, a cammo groom's cake, and a rusted old antique pick up truck instead of a limmo. Maybe you could hire some local darkies to serve food and call guests "massa" and 'ma'am". And while you are at it, you might tell the parents and grandparents of the groom they should bring their shotguns, and that teeth are optional (they just get in the way of a good fist fight). Cousin Billy Joe has a ass whoopin comin anyways.

*Intended in fun, to make a point, not to offend anyone.

tldh · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:918693d1-0d61-4f9c-ba23-5a519d75159a">Re: plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: plantation wedding theme : just to clarify I'm Irish not american and there have been more crime commited under the american flag then under the confederate thats why its offensive to me I would like to thank people for the other ideas though thats were not related to this misjudgemnt of incorporating the confederate flag. I never thought of going with a Gone With the Wind kinda feel, and I love the horse draw carriage idea! Also, since I have my big girl panties on, I will ask that if my wedding idea offends you then don't reply about it. That would be the GROWN UP thing to do atleast. I believe there was a post made by a moderator on here that specifically said, just because something isn't to you taste doesn't mean its wrong. And not to belittle people with opinions and ideas different from yours or what you would deem acceptable.
Posted by smithca88[/QUOTE]

You know, before I even got to your second post and had only read the first one, I was going to tell you to be elegant but very <em>very </em>careful because anything that has to do with the southern side of the civil war can easily cross the line into offensive.

If you were truly born and raised in Ireland, I will give you the benefit of the doubt but I think you may not have a good grasp on US history. If your home has Confederate flags hanging, I can only imagine the US history lessons you have received since arriving here. Think of the Penal Laws enacted on the Catholics in Ireland a few centuries ago. I don't know if you are Catholic or Protestant but either way, you should know what I am talking about.

Very briefly: The one state right the south wanted to hold onto badly enough to go to war was slavery. When it lost the war, it enacted Jim Crow laws to deny equal protection to African Americans; these racist laws were in effect until Congress, with the backing of Presidents Kennedy and LB Johnson, passed the1964 Civil Rights Act. Guess what symbol was held high by racist supporters, including southern politicians: the Confederate flag.

I'm not going to repeat what has already been said, you have already seen how all but one poster feel about this. What has been said on this board is mild and reserved compared to what I have seen happen face to face when people see that flag displayed. Posters were trying to warn you about this.

So, I will again say, be extremely careful with how you pull off the wedding you want if you are doing a plantation theme. Stick with lemonades (including pink), sweet teas, coconut and pineapple cakes, pearls, parasols. If you want a flavor of the style, dresses should have tight bodices, loose, flowing skirts and cap sleeves. The men should be in grey suits. Use local, in season flowers. Tapered candles in silver holders. Crystal stemware and china with linen napkins and silver (or silver plated) utensils. Hand out fans to the guests and carry a lace fan yourself. Hold a small family prayer book and do the readings from the family Bible. MOB and MOG can wear wide brimmed hats. BMs should have flowers in their hair.
.

One more thing...please call it a southern wedding, not a plantation wedding.

tldh · June 2010

Just out of curiosity, what part of Ireland are you from? I've been there many times and am Irish-American. What made you come to the US?

You might want to incorporate a ceili dance into your reception. Fiddlers would work for a southern theme and Irish music would fit right in.

As for the many attrocities....we're not angels but overall I think the good we have done vastly outweighs the bad and doesn't come close to what the south wanted to continue.

I also think you may be too young to realize that were it not for the Irish-American societies in the US sending money to support family still there or our ancestral towns, Ireland would have fallen to third world status long ago and the Celtic Tiger economy of the last twenty years would have never had the opportunity to take off.

I'm not saying you or Ireland owes us but please remember this the next time you decide to say you're ashamed of the flag many of us have fought under and still salute. This is the country that took us in, though with far from open arms (bigotry against Catholics - No Irish Need Apply) when we were starved out of Ireland. At least we had a fighting chance here - I'm proud to say my family was in the Five Points of New York City the first couple of generations (though I'm not proud of everything that happened there). It is the country that whole heartedly joins us now in our St. Patrick's day celebrations every year, Savannah Georgia having one of the largest, and most Americans look for an Irish twig on their family trees on 03/17.

It is also the country where I may spend every breath to the last opposing what you believe and what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. That is one of the most basic promises of an American citizen. Think of that when you see Old Glory.

jenn.daniel · June 2010

I was assuming OP was planning on having the wedding at a plantation, so calling it a planation weddng makes sense to me. I saw several venues online with planation in the name because that's what they were. Bad history, but beautiful architecture.

I'm having a church wedding. Should I not call it that because Christians went on crusades and killed I don't know how many people over the centuries? Or because churchs killed people they thought were witches?

Can my Egyptian friend not have an Egyptian wedding because Egytians had slaves? No Roman themes either because Romans had slaves?

aerinpegadrak · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:4bc6d079-e821-43e5-82f7-f6e1dd838d41">Re: plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]I was assuming OP was planning on having the wedding at a plantation, so calling it a planation weddng makes sense to me. I saw several venues online with planation in the name because that's what they were. Bad history, but beautiful architecture. I'm having a church wedding. Should I not call it that because Christians went on crusades and killed I don't know how many people over the centuries? Or because churchs killed people they thought were witches? Can my Egyptian friend not have an Egyptian wedding because Egytians had slaves? No Roman themes either because Romans had slaves?
Posted by jenn.daniel[/QUOTE]
American slavery was historically different than anything else that had come before. In other cultures, slaves were taken as spoils of war, they could buy their freedom and integrated normally into society once they had, their children were born free, and it wasn't necessarily a racial thing. It was closer to the indentured servitude system that brought a lot of workers into the country in the early days.

I think I can safely presume that your church won't have anything on display which symbolizes, "Gee, I wish we could go back to the old brutality, that was fun." Which is basically what the confederate flag is.

Pirata13 · June 2010

Yeah I hate to say it but you posted on a public message board and people are entitled to comment on it. You asked if the flag would be tacky and we are all telling you that besides tacky it would be offensive. Several people have given you valid alternatives on how to have a Southern theme without having to have the flag as a part of it. I agree that if your only schooling on the North-South issue is from your fiance and his family who openly hang Confederate flags in their homes, you may be getting a very skewed view on the history. Maybe you agree with them, who knows. But if you really don't understand what the flag represents, please educate yourself more before making a decision. Consider if you went to a wedding where people had something displayed that was a hot-button issue in Ireland and offensive to several other people in attendance.

jenn.daniel · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:08c54647-c562-4875-a9d1-87dddca660ae">Re: plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: plantation wedding theme : American slavery was historically different than anything else that had come before. In other cultures, slaves were taken as spoils of war, they could buy their freedom and integrated normally into society once they had, their children were born free, and it wasn't necessarily a racial thing. It was closer to the indentured servitude system that brought a lot of workers into the country in the early days. I think I can safely presume that your church won't have anything on display which symbolizes, "Gee, I wish we could go back to the old brutality, that was fun." Which is basically what the confederate flag is.
Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

There were also blacks who owned slaves in this country. Egyptians enslaved the Jews because of religion, I don't think that's much different from enslaving because of race. I'm pretty sure that our Jewish friend isn't offended by pyramid (symbol of Egypt and pyramids were built by slave labor) items in our Egytian friend's house.

The thing is, to many of us the confederate flag does NOT represent slavery, repression, or brutality. To FI it represents his great-great-grandfather, who had the same name as FI. Yes, he fought for the South. That's FI's heritage, and it's important to him.

tldh · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_plantation-wedding-theme?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:b7667332-d9e3-45ec-ab98-6c905bcf1d82Post:4bc6d079-e821-43e5-82f7-f6e1dd838d41">Re: plantation wedding theme</a>:
[QUOTE]I was assuming OP was planning on having the wedding at a plantation, so calling it a planation weddng makes sense to me. I saw several venues online with planation in the name because that's what they were. Bad history, but beautiful architecture. I'm having a church wedding. Should I not call it that because Christians went on crusades and killed I don't know how many people over the centuries? Or because churchs killed people they thought were witches? Can my Egyptian friend not have an Egyptian wedding because Egytians had slaves? No Roman themes either because Romans had slaves?
Posted by jenn.daniel[/QUOTE]

Not all Egyptians or Romans had slaves (which btw was not like American slavery) and I'm sorry but you are literally comparing ancient history to a history that can still be handed down orally - when I was young I had conversations with people whose grandparents were slaves. Not all churches were part of the Crusades or falsely convicted people of witchcraft. Show me the civil war southern plantation that did not have slaves and then your analogy might have something to it.

aerinpegadrak · June 2010

The Egyptian-Jews thing was more tribal than religion. Not race, but politics. (I also want to say that the generally accepted depiction of that relationship, i.e. The Ten Commandments, is wildly inaccurate and that the Jews weren't treated nearly that poorly and had quite a lot of power while they were in Egypt, but I don't have the sources handy to back me up.) That also happened thousands of years ago. The American Civil War was a century and a half ago. Much more recent, much more raw.

The swastika symbol has been around in many cultures throughout recorded history, but after being co-opted by the Nazis, it's been stigmatized, and even cultures in which it carries a completely different traditional meaning avoid using it in today's society. Even if a symbol isn't offensive to one person, if it carries the potential to offend others, then one must be sensitive to that.

tldh · June 2010

In Response to Re: plantation wedding theme:
The thing is, to many of us the confederate flag does NOT represent slavery, repression, or brutality. To FI it represents his great-great-grandfather, who had the same name as FI. Yes, he fought for the South. That's FI's heritage, and it's important to him.
Posted by jenn.daniel[/QUOTE]

This is why when I moved north to Cleveland ten years ago, I worked damn hard to completely lose my Southern accent. I never wanted to be assumed to have this mindset. To most people in the country, including me, this is exactly what that flag represents. It was front and center when the KKK decided to march in Cleveland a few weeks after I arrived there.

bablingbrooke · June 2010

Dear smithca:

The civil war is over. You lost. The rest of the country has moved into the 21st century and equates the confederate flag with bad things. I STRONGLY recommend you follow suit and abandon this horrible idea.

People like you give the whole south a bad name to us yankees and westerners.

CA2MT4EveR · June 2010

If you are non-appreciative of the American flag, then get the fvck out of this country! There are plenty of people in the world who would give anything to be here, so for someone to live here and disgrace the name is completely shameless. And I'm going to outright say this right now (and I am fully willing to take the flame for it), but I am willing to bet you have some sort of government assistance and take all that is given to you for granted.

Yes, your idea is beyond tacky. "Rebel" flags are completely offensive to the name they give and the symbol they carry. Are you trying to draw attention to yourself as one of the most white trash weddings that ever were? As PPs have stated, there are plenty of ways to have a Southern feel to your wedding, without having a racist, tasteless, offensive wedding- regardless of who your guests are and what they may or may not believe.

ETA: *Disclaimer*- I am all for government assistance to those who need it. But I don't like people who abuse it.

pixiedust84 · June 2010

Wow. Really OP? Thank goodness for tldh who said everything better than I ever could.

Question - if you went to a German wedding and a swastika was on displayed would you be offended? Seriously I'm asking?

I would march out of any wedding that had a confederate flag (or swastika) on display. Both have stigmas attached which are unavoidable based on the history. I garauntee you would offend people having a confederate flag. Frankly I'd feel uncomfortable going to your house since you have them there.

Stick with lemonade, tea and corsets. Avoid the symbols of hate.

SarahPLiz · June 2010

I didn't read all the responses here, but Southern Plantation style =/= Confederate flags. Southern Plantation Style= relaxed, hospitable, charming. Confederate Flag= backwoods, ultra conservative, hateful, narrow world view and ignorance of other cultures. That's just what it stands for. Sorry. There is no reason it should be part of any occaision except maybe a history lesson on the perils of racism and the caste system. I grew up in the south and so did both of my parents. Neither one of them wants anything to do with the symbolism of the confederate flag, even though their ancestors lived during the Civil War. There is a reason we, as a society, have moved on from such hatred. You might as well have all of your waiters be in blackface and have separate restrooms for non-whites.

OP, I'm with the first response on mint juleps, lemonade, lots of lace and parasols. You could also incorporate a band and some old-time waltzes. Perhaps you can have actual dance cards (google it), lace gloves, and a big dress. Hoop skirt is not required, but Southern charm is.

banana468 · June 2010

[QUOTE]The thing is, to many of us the confederate flag does NOT represent slavery, repression, or brutality. To FI it represents his great-great-grandfather, who had the same name as FI. Yes, he fought for the South. That's FI's heritage, and it's important to him. [/QUOTE]

I know people who had a grandfather fight as a Nazi. He was young and had no choice. NONE of them think that anything from that period that commemorates Hitler or the Nazis is appropriate...because it's completely offensive - yet they still respect their heritage.

I respect what my elders have done - but I can't respect anything that was bigoted, and neither can many people. Any polarizing symbols have absolutely no place at a wedding (and IMO, they have no place in your home either).

hugz415 · June 2010

So the general concensus is BAD IDEA. I like the idea of accentuating your southern heritage...but highlight the good and not the bad. Focus on awesome southern food (consult Paula Deane for some menu ideas?) and the beautiful backdrop. I am willing to bet that at least some of your guests (if not all) would be offended by a confederate flag. Southern hospitality should dictate that you do not want to make anyone uncomfortable.

abbiewebster · June 2010

This is just sick..

bablingbrooke · June 2010

Too bad that to those of us living in reality, it does.

That's like saying I should have had swastikas at my wedding because they did not symbolize anything horrible to me. (They DO symbolize something horrible to me, just to be crystal clear). Everyone else would have been horrified.

Why don't you grow up a bit and then get married once you learn what the confederate flag actually means? Maybe get out of the south for a bit?

I've deleted this post to the best of my ability

Re: I've deleted this post to the best of my ability

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