What do you think?

squirrly · February 2010

On all the hunting commentary -

I absolutely think it is completely inappropriate for any gun in any house to be unlocked and accessible at any time. Particularly if there are children in the house. Whether they've been hunting or not - some kids who think they know everything about guns after going hunting once will be a greater danger with guns than those who are too terrified to touch them.

I absolutely think it's the parents responsibility to keep all guns in the house under lock and key, and to manage those keys. Regardless of whether they are a hunting family or not.

After all, it's the parents responsibility to keep alcohol away from their underage children. It's their responsibility to keep drugs out of their house. And it's their responsibility to keep unliscensed drivers from driving, by whatever means necessary - even if the child in question has been driving a truck on the farm for years and is qualified by skill and experience to drive on the road. It would be irresponsible to give that child keys to the car. Just like it's irresponsible to give a child unsupervised access to a gun.

Kati0105 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_think-19?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fcb88b51-5b59-4a18-961d-1420a4b0a81aPost:ce6873cb-d355-4909-820f-d0f40af8514b">Re: What do you think?</a>:
[QUOTE]On all the hunting commentary - I absolutely think it is completely inappropriate for any gun in any house to be unlocked and accessible at any time. Particularly if there are children in the house. Whether they've been hunting or not - some kids who think they know everything about guns after going hunting once will be a greater danger with guns than those who are too terrified to touch them. I absolutely think it's the parents responsibility to keep all guns in the house under lock and key, and to manage those keys. Regardless of whether they are a hunting family or not. After all, it's the parents responsibility to keep alcohol away from their underage children. It's their responsibility to keep drugs out of their house. And it's their responsibility to keep unliscensed drivers from driving, by whatever means necessary - even if the child in question has been driving a truck on the farm for years and is qualified by skill and experience to drive on the road. It would be irresponsible to give that child keys to the car. Just like it's irresponsible to give a child unsupervised access to a gun.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

Yes, this. All of this. I understand that there are regional/cultural differences and I don't want to get into a big argument about gun control, but there is no situation that I can think of that justifies an 11 year old having unrestricted access to a deadly weapon.

squirrly · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_think-19?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fcb88b51-5b59-4a18-961d-1420a4b0a81aPost:8ab8578d-ff6e-4552-b561-89d6b8e1f5d0">Re: What do you think?</a>:
[QUOTE]"However, until you can purchase your own weapon, there is zero reason for him to have access to it unless actively hunting." And February is still active hunting season, at least for ducks, and at least in TN. I don't know the dates for other states, but a 12 year old having access to a gun right now doesn't surprise me in the least. No, it shouldn't have been in his reach right that very second, but it doesn't mean it's that bad parenting. Just a story to prove my point: Shane's uncle and his son go hunting for a full week in January, before school gets back in session. Guns are easily accessible during that week, because they will literally run out of the house in their underwear to shoot any ducks they see flying overhead. They live on their own property, it's perfectly legal, but yeah. It's seriously not that uncommon (in families were hunting is a big part of their lives) for guns to be easily accessible.
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

I get it that it's not uncommon (I'm from Kentucky after all, and went to Murray!). I still think it's wrong, though.

mwhitson14 · February 2010

Oh I know it's probably wrong, and the guns in my house will be completely locked up. But until you've lived in a family (and marrying into one!

) that lives and breathes hunting, it's kinda hard to understand just how easily accessible the guns are. I just think it's incredibly unfair to say that's bad parenting, because my parents and FI's parents, and our grandparents are not bad parents.

SarahPLiz · February 2010

I got a gun for my birthday when I was 12. However, it didn't come out of daddy's closet without his or mom's permission. I was also taught that I had to eat everything I shot.

I agree that a 12 year old does not have the impulse control of an adult. I do think he should be punished, but not by life in prison.

Kati0105 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_think-19?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fcb88b51-5b59-4a18-961d-1420a4b0a81aPost:67622845-d128-42ee-9f99-02533ea1dec6">Re: What do you think?</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh I know it's probably wrong, and the guns in my house will be completely locked up. But until you've lived in a family (and marrying into one! :D) that lives and breathes hunting, it's kinda hard to understand just how easily accessible the guns are. I just think it's incredibly unfair to say that's bad parenting, because my parents and FI's parents, and our grandparents are not bad parents.
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't use the term "bad parent" but I think the father in this case should held at least liable, if not legally responsible. When a teen leaves a high school party drunk and kills someone with his car, the parents of the teen who hosted the party can be held liable. I just don't see how this is any different.

squirrly · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_think-19?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fcb88b51-5b59-4a18-961d-1420a4b0a81aPost:67622845-d128-42ee-9f99-02533ea1dec6">Re: What do you think?</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh I know it's probably wrong, and the guns in my house will be completely locked up. But until you've lived in a family (and marrying into one! :D) that lives and breathes hunting, it's kinda hard to understand just how easily accessible the guns are. I just think it's incredibly unfair to say that's bad parenting, because my parents and FI's parents, and our grandparents are not bad parents.
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

Have I told you about my ex-FI? He's from Charleston, MO. There are ducks and deer taxidermy all over his parents' house. They hunt all the time. But, their guns are always locked up. They have a walk in gun vault in the garage.

Also - current FI is a bit into guns too. The Army'police/range kind. And, they're always locked up.

ETA: And - I didn't say they were bad parents. It takes a lot more than one issue, generally, to make someone a bad parent. But, in my opinion, that's an area that should be handled differently.

mwhitson14 · February 2010

Yes, but some of the comments "WTF kind of parent" implies bad parent, and that's what got my back up.

Kati0105 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_think-19?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fcb88b51-5b59-4a18-961d-1420a4b0a81aPost:9d2b45ba-fe7e-4624-bbb1-3dd418020730">Re: What do you think?</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, but some of the comments "WTF kind of parent" implies bad parent, and that's what got my back up. :)
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

No worries :) I think it's the kind of story that ellicits lots of strong emotions, but without additional info it's hard to really judge anyone. It'll be interesting to see how it develops. I really can't imagine that he will actually receive life.

mwhitson14 · February 2010

Sorry squirrly, I didn't mean you specifically. I'm just addressing the general outrage of a 12 year old having access to a gun.

squirrly · February 2010

It's ok. My outrage is very specific. Not general at all.

MyNameIsNot · February 2010

No way. He's a child.

The whole reason we have a juvenile justice system is because children are not capable of the same pre-mediation and malice that adults are.

In the same way that a 17 y/o cannot be sentenced to death, a 12 y/o shouldn't get life.

A 12 y/o can still be saved. Wasting his life is not going to bring back the victim. There's still plenty of time to rehabilitate.

tenofcups4me · February 2010

Yes. I don't believe an 11-year-old that can murder in cold blood can be rehabilitated. Actually I'm not sure I believe any murderer can.

katiewhompus · February 2010

I have to get off soon so hopefully this won't light a fire but I don't think anyone who kills is thinking of the consequences at that time. When my friend's children were murdered I doubt their stepdad thought "Hm, if I kill my wife and her kids I'll probably go to jail, and have taken them away from their families forever". They just act on their impulse and then have to deal with the consequences, I'm not sure how this is really different. At 12 he should know (especially if he's hunting) that if he shoots something it will die and there will be a consequence.

My uncle has always had guns in his house (WI hunter), even when we were little. He always kept them unloaded with the safety on and we had no clue where the ammo was stored. Even then we knew "don't ever play with these because they are dangerous.

I don't know what the answer would be though. Life in prison does seem a tad ridiculous at his age, but so does letting him out at 18. At that point he's going to be (assumably) a really bitter 18 year old with very limited social skills who then has to live in a world where he is faced with the fact that he was convicted (if he's guilty/if he actually is) with murder when he was only 12. That's a hefty weight to bear and could have a lot of different endings.

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