Wedding Etiquette Forum

Is This Tactful?

I know I'm opening myself up to some harsh criticism, and that's fine. In short, my best friend and maid of honor have had a serious falling out to the point where I really cannot see it being salvaged. She cheated on her husband, expected me to be fine with it, wanted to invite the new guy, and he's a felon. It's just something I can't get over.

Because I hate conflict, and cannot govern my thoughts and words well verbally, I wrote her this email. Please, honestly tell me what you think. Names have been changed to protect identity...and no, I'm not a "troll".

"Hi. I know we haven't spoken in a long time. And you deserve to know why, at least from my end. I don't claim to know why you haven't bothered to contact me. It really doesn't matter, I suppose.

I don't expect anything I say to have an effect on you, nor should it. You're an adult with a 100% right to make her own decisions without the nosy opinions of others around you. However, some of those decision really rankle with me, and while it ultimately doesn't matter, I think it just best for us to cut our ties respectfully and without a huge fuss. You may make one, and that's your right, but I won't respond to it.

First off, let me say that I have valued our friendship over the years. Highly. I love your children and think the world of them. I truly, sincerely, hope for the best for you all. You should know this decision for me has not been easy.

You have the right to know why I have come to this decision. I certainly have no desire to point fingers and lay blame. There is no blame to be had, only a strong difference in opinion. It's not anyone's fault. Not really. We're just two different people now with two different worlds of thought. Be that as it may, here are the why's:

You told me for months that you loved Dan and everything was going well, all the while lying to me and having a relationship on the side. I hate being lied to. Even when I told you I was mad at you, and we jokingly laughed it off at the time, I was still very hurt and very frustrated. I really was mad, even if I didn't voice it more strongly.

You know I despise Dan, for what he's done to the kids and to you over the years. I certainly can understand why you'd cheat, but I have zero respect for it. No one can choose when, where, or who they will love. It just happens. But in this case, I cannot bring myself to condone or support that action. However justifiable it may be to you, I hope you can understand that it is not for me.

I have known of yours, been told by you, and have shared with you the horrifying experience of having lost your virginity by means of rape. You mentioned countless times over the years the devastating effect that had on your life growing up. And I understood completely because I'd been there myself. However well I may have disguised my feelings to you, I am and have been horrified that your chosen lover is your rapist. I was physically ill and vomited. I tried very hard to get over it, and I can't. Your capacity for forgiveness has always been greater than mine, but I absolutely cannot fathom this. Who you love is your decision and certainly no business of mine. But I can't respect it. I can't understand it. I can't embrace it. I can't get over it.

I really want to continue our friendship. I do. But I could not keep silent about these things any more. You deserved to know. And I don't honestly think we can salvage a friendship with so much disagreement and lost respect. I'm certain there are choices of my own over the years that you, too, disagree with. I would love for you to still be there by my side when Henry and I get married, still be there for our wedding day and all the festivities. I know that that is no longer an option. Even if we were able to put aside all of this, which I highly doubt, I know that I could never allow that expense to you and your kids. As much as I would love to foot the cost of all it would entail, I cannot. Any money that would have been spent on such an occasion should rightfully be put towards your children. There's no such thing as giving them too much of their basic needs.

You should know that while you are not at my side on our wedding day, no one will be taking your place. You are not someone to be replaced, or a pawn to be moved aside. I respect what we had far too much to dishonor it's memory that way, even if it can no longer be.

I wish I had the strength of character to look past all this and just get over it. I wish I had your capacity to forgive and forget. But I don't, and I can't pretend to. Perhaps one day I will regret having ever said these words, having ever acknowledged my disagreements of your actions. Perhaps one day, I'll come to you and ask forgiveness. Maybe you will, maybe you won't. But I hope that in being honest with you about my feelings you can respect that I never made this decision to be hurtful. It is less about who you are and more about who I am and the differences between us now.

You have always been an amazing person. My opinion has not changed. There are just some things that are better to let go of, rather than cling to in hopes of repair, or pieced together from past memory.

I truly wish you and Jenny and Robert and Matthew all the best.

Most Sincerely,
lv2011"
image
Ovarian cyst lapro: '01, '04, '09 Conal biopsy: '01- results negative Dilation: '03 for cervical scarring Pcos test: '05, FSH and LH normal Mirena removed July '12 My Ovulation Chart
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Re: Is This Tactful?

  • Wait... So, is her husband the one who raped her or the felon?
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  • You "not allowing" her to choose to attend b/c expense of attending the wedding is wrong.

    I don't care if you end the friendship with her, but leave the wedding out of it. Especially, when you are basically saying she is too poor to attend and you can't allow her waste her money like that. Who are you to decide what she does with her money?

    Planning Bio
    Married 9/15/11

    image
    *This is Not Legal Advice*
  • You are acting like she cheated on you. I don't really understand why her personal relationship problems have such a bearing on your friendship. 
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  • crash2729crash2729 member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 5 Love Its
    edited April 2012
    I think you flip flop.
    You tell her how no one's "nosy" opinion matters, but you go on to voice yours.

    Also, I hope you used fake names in this letter.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:e06a40f2-1e11-4f66-980d-6605f480d7a6">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Wait... So, is her husband the one who raped her or the felon?
    Posted by ILoveToRobot[/QUOTE]

    I missed one hell of a backstory...going to look at post history now.

    Planning Bio
    Married 9/15/11

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    *This is Not Legal Advice*
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:2ddfebae-c262-480e-b8bc-f8b05341e4ff">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]You are acting like she cheated on you. I don't really understand why her personal relationship problems have such a bearing on your friendship. 
    Posted by RupertPenny[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Yeah. 

    </div>
  • That was pretty rambly. I had some trouble following what you were trying to say, and I'm a reasonably intelligent person. 

    Also, you included a ton of information not at all relevant to your point. Speaking of, what WAS your point? Kicking her out of the wedding party? Telling her how much you disapprove? 

    I hope you didn't already send that.
  • ILoveToRobotILoveToRobot member
    500 Comments First Anniversary
    edited April 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:65e6e6b7-58a1-4acd-a556-0affac1e8c90">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is This Tactful? : I missed one hell of a backstory...going to look at post history now.
    Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

    I take it you skimmed her post. It's all in this one. She talks about how the friend was raped and the friend fell in love with the rapist. She just doesn't make it clear as to which person was the rapist her husband or the man she's cheating with.
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  • edited April 2012
    I just read that again and all I can really say is WTF. 
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  • This all seems like a train wreck.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:65e6e6b7-58a1-4acd-a556-0affac1e8c90">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is This Tactful? : I missed one hell of a backstory...going to look at post history now.
    Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

    It's burried in the middle of the rambling.
    <em>I have known of yours, been told by you, and have shared with you the horrifying experience of having lost your virginity by means of rape. You mentioned countless times over the years the devastating effect that had on your life growing up. And I understood completely because I'd been there myself. However well I may have disguised my feelings to you, I am and have been horrified that your chosen lover is your rapist. I was physically ill and vomited. I tried very hard to get over it, and I can't. Your capacity for forgiveness has always been greater than mine, but I absolutely cannot fathom this. Who you love is your decision and certainly no business of mine. But I can't respect it. I can't understand it. I can't embrace it. I can't get over it.

    </em>OP, the e-mail is too long and judgy. It's fine if you can't be friends with this person anymore. But I think you have to make it more to-the-point.
  • edited April 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:f9b1a926-425d-479d-9a96-24ca24cb9dd5">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]If you want to put it right out there, just say "Mary, I know we were the best of friends, but I don't agree with your life choices and I think you know why.  I wish you the best and hope that someday we can be friends again, but we need to go our separate ways." Then be prepared for her to tell everyone, and for a lot of people to call you judgemental. 
    Posted by EaglesBride2012[/QUOTE]

    This. The email is way too rambling and melodramatic. And ditto Duds for saying it in person.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:66bd1645-b83f-457d-9d3c-e21357d63218">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is This Tactful? : I take it you skimmed her post. It's all in this one. She talks about how the friend was raped and the friend fell in love with the rapist. She just doesn't make it clear as to which person was the rapist her husband or the man she's cheating with.
    Posted by ILoveToRobot[/QUOTE]

    Oh, ok. I thought it was clear the guy she cheated with was the rapist. Thus, the question might have referenced other posts.

    Planning Bio
    Married 9/15/11

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    *This is Not Legal Advice*
  • I wouldn't have made the email so long, and I wouldn't have mentioned the money part of the wedding. It's kind of like ripping a band-aid off as opposed to slowly peeling it off. 
  • She cheated on her husband with her rapist?  I get not agreeing with that choice at all, but if that's what happened she's going to need good friends in her life.  Friends that treat her better than you do.  Her new relationship is clearly incredibly unhealthy, and probably extremely abusive, and if he is all she has she will never be able to escape that.
    image
  • edited April 2012
    I think this is out of line.

    My friend is cheating on her husband.  Claims she's in love with both men.  I think it's absolutely disgusting and i have no respect for her on that aspect.   But she isn't cheating on me...so i thought it was foolish to "break up" with her.

    What is more important to you?  the 95% of her that you love or the 5% of her that you don't like? 

    The felon/rapist thing needs more clarification. (ETA:  caught up on this in posts that came in while I was typing) 
    And I agree with Eagles...this really could be a few paragraphs shorter.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:249cda5d-55e0-41e3-8659-14fa903e88d0">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]You "not allowing" her to choose to attend b/c expense of attending the wedding is wrong. I don't care if you end the friendship with her, but leave the wedding out of it. Especially, when you are basically saying she is too poor to attend and you can't allow her waste her money like that. Who are you to decide what she does with her money?
    Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

    This! I totally don't see the point in adding this little tidbit to the letter.

    Also the letter is way to long, you're kind of going off the subject which is that you don't want her in your wedding anymore.
    imageimage
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  • I think, if you really do care about this person that much, you should call her or talk in person, regardless of if you don't express yourself as well.  If you want, print this out, and tell her you have a spiel you wrote down and want to get through before she says anything, then read this.  But I think to throw all of this in her face (and I agree with some others, it's a lot, it's very judgy, and it has a lot of implications - with the friendship, the wedding, etc), she deserves to be able to respond to you.  Writing her a letter and then saying "You may make one, and that's your right, but I won't respond to it" is very dismissive and very rude.  You're not doing this without a fuss - you're writing her an epic letter about how wrong all of her life choices are.  She has the right to respond and to get some response from you.  Frankly, if you just send this and cut all ties, you are completely in the wrong.
  • If you were raped, and the man she is cheating with is a rapist (though not the man who raped either of you), I agree that it's pretty fucked up and would be hard to be around him.

    That said, Eagles' wording is way better than that novel you wrote up there.
  • edited April 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:f9b1a926-425d-479d-9a96-24ca24cb9dd5">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]If you want to put it right out there, just say "Mary, I know we were the best of friends, but I don't agree with your life choices and I think you know why.  I wish you the best and hope that someday we can be friends again, but we need to go our separate ways." Then be prepared for her to tell everyone, and for a lot of people to call you judgemental. 
    Posted by EaglesBride2012[/QUOTE]
    <div>
    </div><div>This.</div><div>
    </div><div>And no, to answer your question I do not think your original email is tactful. I think this proposed wording by Eagles is as tactful as it possibly can be.</div>
  • Well, I can understand this, but I also think that Eagles has it right in how you should approach this.  Her past is not the issue now. Her behavior now is. It's fine to not agree with a friends life choices. I don't agree with a lot of my friends life choices, and I tell them that. And sometimes it goes okay and sometimes it doesn't. But that is the choice that I make, knowing how it could possibly go. My H says all the time that my morals are not everyone else's and it's wrong of me to put that on others, but I say that the people I am connected to should represent my morals. If not, then we have no business being friends or more. Call it judgemental if you will, but that's what it is.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:ff99c294-295f-4d40-83e6-b28d096d9da1">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]She cheated on her husband with her rapist?  I get not agreeing with that choice at all, but if that's what happened she's going to need good friends in her life.  Friends that treat her better than you do.  Her new relationship is clearly incredibly unhealthy, and probably extremely abusive, and if he is all she has she will never be able to escape that.
    Posted by kcscejal[/QUOTE]

    This. I had a really good friendship that I ended harshly like OP is doing. We eventually made up and are great friends again. However, I still to this day consider myself an awful friend for doing what I did. I thought she was the one in the wrong but when I came to my senses I realized that I was just as bad if not worse for ending the friendship when she clearly needed a good friend.
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  • Also, without knowing who is a felon or what they crime was or whatever, I think it's really shitty to no invite someone to your wedding because they are a felon. The way you say that makes me think they were probably convicted and served their time, and it's hard for them to make a life for themselves if no one is willing to give them a second chance. It is not your place to punish them for past mistakes by refusing to socialize with them. I mean, would I hire a murderer to babysit my kids? No. But I didn't run a background check on everyone on my guest list either. 
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  • edited April 2012
    I think this would be much better handled over the phone or in person. This email is much to ramble-ey.
  • There is a lot of back story, and i didn't want to drag all of that out. It's not posted anywhere. I know that having someone no longer in the wedding is a friendship breaking move. I also am a firm believer that, while it's none of my business what someone else does in his/her life, if you can't respect it, you shouldn't be friends. That's pretty much the case here. I can't respect her decisions. It's not her fault. It's not mine. We're just in two different spheres and no longer compatible as friends.

    I'm admittedly a coward because I can't do this in person, or by phone. I hate confrontation and probably would have let this go with no communication whatsoever all the way until after the wedding. I thought this was better. Maybe not.

    To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist.

    Also, she is living with that man, refusing to get a job, and is letting him foot all her bills. I refuse to have his money play a hand in any involvement to her being part of the wedding. It's a moot point really, because I can't respect her any longer to maintain friendship anyway.
    image
    Ovarian cyst lapro: '01, '04, '09 Conal biopsy: '01- results negative Dilation: '03 for cervical scarring Pcos test: '05, FSH and LH normal Mirena removed July '12 My Ovulation Chart
  • I agree with Eagles...extremely overdramatic.  This email easily could have been a paragraph long and still said the same thing you said in your 11 paragraph novel.

    Honestly, you should have left your wedding out of it.  Her finances are none of your business and you should not dictate to her what she should or should not spend her money on.

    It seems that some crazy things have happened and she is making some poor decisions that you do not agree with or condone.  You have decided that because of these decisions that you and her can no longer be friends because there will always be this big disagreement between the two of you.  I don't think you are wrong for wanting to end the friendship but in your email you went back and forth about ending it then wanting to stay friends but that it would be too hard so you want to end it but that she has been a great friend but that you want to end it.  To me, it is slightly confusing.

    But I will say that being a friend does not mean that you have to agree with everything each other does or condone each others actions.  The point of being a friend is to be a support for that other person.  You may hate what she has done but if she has been such a wonderful friend up to this point and since her decision in her love life has no real physical effect on you and your life...I just feel that this friendship could be salvaged.  It seems like she is crying out for some help (cheating on her husband with the man that raped her), IMO.

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-this-tactful?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a5e50970-9d42-408d-80d2-0d498dd0fc92Post:ee044917-06a7-4875-a9a6-d0a02317653e">Re: Is This Tactful?</a>:
    [QUOTE]There is a lot of back story, and i didn't want to drag all of that out. It's not posted anywhere. I know that having someone no longer in the wedding is a friendship breaking move. I also am a firm believer that, while it's none of my business what someone else does in his/her life, if you can't respect it, you shouldn't be friends. That's pretty much the case here. I can't respect her decisions. It's not her fault. It's not mine. We're just in two different spheres and no longer compatible as friends. I'm admittedly a coward because I can't do this in person, or by phone. I hate confrontation and probably would have let this go with no communication whatsoever all the way until after the wedding. I thought this was better. Maybe not. To clarify a previous question, she cheated on her husband with the man she's currently seeing. That man, not her husband, is her rapist. Also, she is living with that man, refusing to get a job, and is <strong>letting him foot all her bills. I refuse to have his money play a hand in any involvement to her being part of the wedding. </strong>It's a moot point really, because I can't respect her any longer to maintain friendship anyway.
    Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

    <div>That's the most bullshit excuse I've read on here in a long time.</div><div>
    </div><div>Do yourself a favor. Use Eagles' wording. Make it a short email and get it over with. Try to save everyone's dignity.</div>
  • Dude, I totally get this.  I'm currently not speaking with my aunt because she's cheating on my uncle with a homeless bum (well that and she's a raging alchy).  She raves to me about how in a family love is supposed to be unconditional - but I mean, I do love her.  I just can't support her hot mess of a life and I don't want to surround myself with it or concern myself with it.

    I did not, however, write her a long ass email about this.  You need to be more concise, less judgy.  I did leave an open door for my aunt - I told her, I will always love you, and when you get your life together I am here for you.  That's the best I can do.

    You don't have to be friends with her anymore if you don't want, but don't give her that long fuckyou of an email.
    panther
  • Also, I mean you obviously don't have to stay friends with this girl if you don't want to, but it sounds like she could use a friend. 
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  • Maybe I am an awful person for thinking this, but she sounds like a habitual liar who may have embellished the details of her "rape." If she is now happy and living with this man, and cheated on her husband and father of her children with him, it seems like she had a bitter breakup and wanted to make up details for everyone to hate him. I have known a couple of people who make up awful lies just to get people to like them or to get attention.

    I just cant see how a woman was raped, went on to be married and have kids, and somehow end up cheating on her husband and moving in and being in love with said rapist.
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