NFP Question

Riss91 · July 2010

I am charting (to avoid at the moment) and learned the method through the book TCOYF. We don't use any barrier/other contraception, so I basically consider myself practicing NFP, though we never took an official NFP course. We may take one at some point, but in the meantime I was wondering....

What other main ideas are taught in the course besides charting?

I've heard that they recommend exclusive breastfeeding as it is healthy for the mother and the baby and it extends your infertile period post-partum. Is there an issue with the Church's teachings if someone chooses not to breastfeed or chooses to only breastfeed for a short period of time so they may attempt to have another child sooner than later?

Is there anything else of note that I've missed?

Thanks ladies!

mica178 · July 2010

I know that the Ecological breastfeeding recommendation is exclusive breastfeeding for six months, which would likely space out kids by at least 15 months. Is that too long a time between kids?

From a medical perspective, babies really benefit from a minimum of 6 months of breastfeeding, and most pediatricians recommend at least a year. Obviously, not all women can or will breastfeed, but if your body is capable, breast is best.

Riss91 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:78a5f683-2db8-41ef-81ef-a58286cec35e">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE]I know that the Ecological breastfeeding recommendation is exclusive breastfeeding for six months, which would likely space out kids by at least 15 months. Is that too long a time between kids?
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

No, I don't think it's too long a time! ha! I am more interested in if the Church had a stance on breastfeeding. Is the Church unaccepting of those who choose not to breastfeed?

What about those who choose to breastfeed for only a few months or choose not to <u>exclusively</u> breastfeed?

I haven't decided what we will do, once we get closer to that point in our lives I will do more research on the health benefits, etc, but I was looking at it more from the belief side than the medical side.
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Calypso1977 · July 2010

i had asked abotu this on some other thread... dont remember which one. but the breastfeeding thing is promoted by couple to couple league.

i dont see how the church could be against it formula feeding your baby. they dont have any say over what you eat, other than meat-less or fasting days, and even then, babies arent at the age of reason and therefore dont have to abide by those rules.

i personally will not breastfeed, unless the milk is pumped and placed in a bottle. however juvenile or ridiculous this may sound, i am repulsed at the thought of a child nursing on me. i feel like its creepy since breasts are very sexual in nature, even though their primary purpose is for nourishing a child.

also, my mom didnt breastfeed. i dont think i'm any dumber or less healthy than my counterparts who were breastfed. my sister and i have never had any chronic illness or medical issues, and neither of us were immunized either. so im not sure how i feel abotu those studies that say its better for health, intelligence, etc.

Riss, i'm self taught from TCOYF too, on chart 16. i love it! i think there is a chapter or 2 on breastfeeding and menopause. i didnt read them as it didnt apply at the time.

mica178 · July 2010

Here's what Pope John Paul II said in 1995:
http://cclsanantonio.org/resources/article.asp?cid=1&AID=72

Calypso1977 · July 2010

i skipped to the last para.

looks like they recommend it, when possible, but they dont require it and its not a sin to choose not to breastfeed.

Riss91 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:81ee31fc-6422-47d3-aa2b-03812c19cf08">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE]Here's what Pope John Paul II said in 1995: <a href="http://cclsanantonio.org/resources/article.asp?cid=1&AID=72" rel="nofollow">http://cclsanantonio.org/resources/article.asp?cid=1&AID=72</a>
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

Thanks - I will check that out!

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:45bd28de-a6ca-42a6-a043-bb357d059546">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE] also, my mom didnt breastfeed. i dont think i'm any dumber or less healthy than my counterparts who were breastfed. my sister and i have never had any chronic illness or medical issues, and neither of us were immunized either. so im not sure how i feel abotu those studies that say its better for health, intelligence, etc.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

My mother didn't breastfeed me or my two sisters, but she did breastfeed my brother somewhat. Out of the four of us, he has had 20x more health problems. I don't think it is because he was breasfed, but I think, like your situation, it certainly helps the argument that you can have very healthy, successful forumla-fed children.

Other than breastfeeding, are there other ideas that are taught at NFP?

TerriandJoe · July 2010

Hi Riss - If you decide to take a class - you should look for the sympto-thermal method. Because that's what's taught in TCOYF. (I just bought the book on friday and have found it very informative!) BUT, we are taking classes that teach Creigton and so it differs from the book. The charts are completely different. And the rules are as well. So I'm reading TCOYF to get more info (esp about CM and days of my cycle that might be "ok"). I've found Creighton a little more challenging, but I don't know if talking my temps would help. My instructor said it would confuse me. So now on my fourth chart I'm looking for sameness or differences in CM. Basically "Is today the same as yesterday".

So look for a sympto -thermal class if you want to continue charting the same way as you are now.

But in answer to your question - our book that teaches Creighton and mentions the Church teachings throughout DOES have charting examples of breastfeeding and non-breastfeeding mothers. I don't have it with me so I can't look up what it says. But I know the charting examples are in there, so I would assume that both are ok.

GL! HTH!

TerriandJoe · July 2010

And, the main difference between FAM and NFP is that FAM allows for the use of condoms during the fertile times.

Creighton teaches SPICE - getting to know your spouse on a Spiritual, Physical, Intellectual, Creative and Emotional means of intimate communication.

Not sure about the other methods. (We went with our instructor based on a recommendation. We had 2 to select from based on location)

ALSO - We have one instructor that we meet with every few weeks.

The couple to couple league you meet with well, a couple.

[Deleted User] · July 2010

TerriandJoe - I have been reading this thread and was curious where you take the classes. H and I are both Catholic and I would like to go off of the pill. We don't want any kids for awhile and are interested in starting NFP. Do we contact our priest for info on classes? I know their is a website with instructors on it, so should I just go that route. What did you guys do if you don't mind me asking?

Riss91 · July 2010

Terri- thanks for the info! I'm not really interested in the charting aspect because FAM is simple and easy enough for me, though it's good to know that the sympto thermal method is closer to FAM.

I'm just trying to determine whether I'm missing anything "big" by having only read the FAM book and knowing about the breastfeeding recommendation. If there isn't much more to the NFP course, then I might not make it a priority to take one!

caitriona87 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:e2ab938c-70cc-426f-96bc-8293b3a90c4f">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE]IOther than breastfeeding, are there other ideas that are taught at NFP?
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

In our class they just put more emphasis on the Church teaching aspect of it than (I would imagine, haven't read the book) TCOYF would (being a secular book.)

For example, they talked about being generous/open to life and not just using NFP with a contraceptive mentality...things like not having a set number of children in mind but discerning God's will for your family size as you go along. They talked about the fact that NFP is much more conducive to this mindset as it often forces you to revisit the question often of whether you have sufficient reason to avoid at the moment.

KatieM2010 · July 2010

MissySue, you can check on your diocese's website. Most of them have links to classes for marriage prep, which include NFP classes. If your diosese doesn't have a link, you can check the couple-to-couple league website. They have links to classes in your area. I would imagine that there are several in the Atlanta area.

Actually, after a quick search, here's a link that might help get you started: http://www.archatl.com/offices/ofd/family/nfp-classes.html

Hope this helps!

I'm self taught using TCOYF as well, but our pre-cana classes covered the basics and gave us a voucher for a free class, so I might take the class in the fall, partly just to meet other couples who are using the method to act as a support network when I have questions.

bellashauntee · July 2010

My diocese offers classes, all I had to do was search NFP classing in San Diego Diocese and a few popped up. You could try that to find a class near you.

TerriandJoe · July 2010

Missy - What the pp said will probably be much more help. It varies by diocese. We went to the flrl.org site (in NY) and it lists by county the options available. Their were two classes near us. So since Joe's priest recommended one of the teachers, we went with her. She teaches Creighton. So that's why we are learning it.

Riss - You never know, taking one class might be beneficial. Like an intro class. www.flrl.org

GL!

Calypso1977 · July 2010

i agree, TCOYF is taught from a very scientific and secular view point. but that is actually what i liked best. since we dont hear abotu natrual methods from our doctors, and so many folks seem to scoff or joke at natural methods, i loved learning about the facts and science behind it. made me feel a lot better about practicing it - and selling it to my H.

bel138 · July 2010

Most women can breastfeed during a subsequent pregnancy. So obviously, breastfeeding doesn't always extend the infertile period. I believe that you need to nurse on demand to have the best chance of delaying fertility.

Riss91 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:e89897bd-1ccb-47ac-adb0-95407bde416c">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE]i agree, TCOYF is taught from a very scientific and secular view point. but that is actually what i liked best. since we dont hear abotu natrual methods from our doctors, and so many folks seem to scoff or joke at natural methods, i loved learning about the facts and science behind it. made me feel a lot better about practicing it - and selling it to my H.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

Me too. I just had my first obgyn appt since beginning charting and was a bit anxious that the discussion wouldn't go well and I'd have to find a new doc. But, though I think she was a bit skeptical, she wasn't against the idea or condescending about it. And I felt confident knowing all of the scientific/medical background.

And it seems like there isn't much more taught at NFP, so I don't feel as bad that we haven't taken the official class yet. Though I'd consider it down the road, especially if we want to be a teaching couple.

agapecarrie · July 2010

www.omsoul.com gives a list of doctors that are NFP-only, and know how to diagnose from charts-- most use creighton method because that is the scientific method of observation- it is the medical health related one. My doc found several issues with me that I never would have known without charting. He can look at a chart and see that a woman is low in zync, magnesium, or progesterone, amoung many other things

Riss91 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:d64c2a18-f9bf-44b4-97cc-b1a2886170e9">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE]<a href="http://www.omsoul.com" rel="nofollow">www.omsoul.com</a> gives a list of doctors that are NFP-only, and know how to diagnose from charts-- most use creighton method because that is the scientific method of observation- it is the medical health related one. My doc found several issues with me that I never would have known without charting. He can look at a chart and see that a woman is low in zync, magnesium, or progesterone, amoung many other things
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

That's amazing! Though there are teachers listed in my area, there are no docs <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-frown.gif" border="0" alt="Frown" title="Frown" />.

KatieM2010 · July 2010

Riss, that's a great point about taking a class to one day become a teaching couple. If all goes well, maybe it's something fi and I could think about doing in the future.

You might be surprised by what your doctor says. I was nervous about discussing it with my doctor, but she actually recommended the classes. She recommends it to all of her patients struggling with fertility as a first step, because it's amazing how often people miss ovulation and think they are infertile when they clearly are not. She also finds it helpful in diagnostics. Basically, she's awesome, and spends at least 30 minutes just talking with me during visits, unlike other docs I've had who do the exam and leave me with a nurse for questions.

agapecarrie · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:b40f3265-0d3c-4994-ad9a-c50300d3efd4">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NFP Question : That's amazing! Though there are teachers listed in my area, there are no docs .
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

People drive from 4 different states to go to the 3 nfp-only docs in my city. Knowing what I know now about how they heal the person instead of covering it up, I would never go to anyone else if at all possible. I would drive many hours to keep going to them.

Riss91 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_nfp-question-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:d3099261-3cc5-4e9d-b930-c5b328015fe7Post:bbbf5c7d-b7ef-462b-bc23-8a984742c640">Re: NFP Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NFP Question : People drive from 4 different states to go to the 3 nfp-only docs in my city. <u>Knowing what I know now about how they heal the person instead of covering it up</u>, I would never go to anyone else if at all possible. I would drive many hours to keep going to them.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

I'm really interested in what you mean by this! Care to share some of the details? I would love to go to an NFP-only doctor, but the thought of being that far away from my doctor/hospital is very scary to me.

Calypso1977 · July 2010

i would love to find an nfp/pro-life doc, but here in MA, its impossible (at least they arent publicly saying they support these concepts - that website listed only one doctor in my area).

my doc is supportive. my first appt since charting went really well. however, if i do decide to get pregnant some day, she is not a baby doctor and i'll have to find someone else. she's also about an hour away. i dont mind driving into the city for my yearly exam, but if i'm pregnant i know i'll have to go more often. i am really going to stress to her to recommend someone to me that will not bring up the subject of abortion during my pregnancy as it wont be an option. ever. the doc most likely will be pro-choice, but as long as they dont attempt to sell their beliefs to be, we'll be good. if i'm told my baby has a developmental issue, i want support on how i'm going to raise it and deal with it, not support for how i should consider "getting rid of it".

but it is frustrating that the only time they really discuss the nfp method is if you are having trouble getting pregnant. never if you want to do it for health or to avoid, etc.

[Deleted User] · July 2010

TerriandJoe and KatieM2010 - thanks so much for the info, I will definitely check it out. H and I attended an EE weekend back in late winter and we were supossed to have a NFP lady there, but she had another obligation that weekend. So, we did not get the info I was hoping for. Since we are getting more and more settled from the wedding, we will definitely be looking into it. Thanks so much!

Jasmine&Rajah · July 2010

I highly recommend The Couple To Couple league. Fully in line with our faith, and our teachers and classes were absolutely wonderful. We were taught the sympto-thermal method.

I can't imagine learning it straight out of the book without the help of instructors, though. We had so many questions throughout the process and it was great to have a "support system" in place.

Here's the direct link (you can also find it through the Family Life Respect Life link above):

www.ccli.org

Jasmine&Rajah · July 2010

I forgot to add that if anyone is eager to find a doctor who will respect your beliefs, and you are not near an NFP-only doctor, you can always do what DH and I did - find out which groups take your insurance, then call around and ask the offices to suggest someone in the practice who is a good fit for you.

I've been with my current OB-GYN for four years, and before ever meeting him, I spoke to one of his staff members and said, "We're practicing Catholics, so birth control, IVF, etc. would never be options for us . . . is there a doctor in your group that will be respectful and understanding?" And she immediately said, "Dr. X is for you - you'll love him," and she was right! (I still blless her for it every time I'm at my appointments!)

agapecarrie · July 2010

I'm really interested in what you mean by this! Care to share some of the details? I would love to go to an NFP-only doctor, but the thought of being that far away from my doctor/hospital is very scary to me.

Well, through charting, a few different symptoms came up that pointed to Polycystic ovarian syndrome and low progesterone (however some symptoms could point to pre-cancer--- which I was tested for just in case).

PCOS- most docs give the pill for this. This is the worst thing to do. The pill is poison, it makes the body stop working the way it is supposed to. It is only a fake period that happens. Instead, my doc gave me blood sugar tests, and I went on blood sugar meds, which fixed my cycle (I don't know how they are connected, but they are). I will be fixing the blood sugar thing with diet and exercise and until then, my cycle is working corretly.

2^nd was progesterone. I had symptoms of depression and anxiety with other cycle issues- he looked at my charts, told me to get a blood test for progesterone on certain days post peak, and found that I'm low. So I take a natural progesterone post peak that makes my body produce its own naturally. This is especially important to know cause if one is low in progesterone, she will likely miscarry. Some docs would just have given me prozac to medicate the problem, instead of fixing it.

In the creighton book, there is about 4 pages of paragraphs of different symptoms and the problems it could point to.

I know of people that drove 2-3 hours to deliver their babies with my doc (and his partners). These docs pray with their patients, they give them rosaries, one put the televised 24 hour adoration chapel on the tv for my friend to meditate on while giving birth. They don't do cesarians unless absolutely necessary (because they can cause scarring and more health issues, meaning its more difficult to carry pregnancies after the fact).

Riss91 · July 2010

agape - Thanks for the info! I completely agree that many doctors a pill-pushers and that winds up doing more harm than good. Definitely a lot to consider here!

mjsmc10 · July 2010

I go to an amazing NFP only doctor and I also have PCOS. Before seeing him, my old doctor suggested the pill for my irregular/absent cycles... she admitted that she had no idea what was wrong with me but insisted that the pill would fix it by "regulating my cycle". Luckily I knew better and declined, so she decided to do a few blood tests. She still did not know what it was, and recommended the pill again. Fortunately my friend suggested her doctor who is NFP only and he is incredible. He actually took the time to figure out what was messing up my cycles and now that we know what it is we are working on finding the right treatment. The first step is learning NFP and charting. This was suggested before I was engaged- NFP is definitely the key to understanding your own body and its issues, it is way more than just knowing when you can and cannot conceive. It's awesome... I don't know what I'd do without it!!

ohfour · July 2010

Try reading this. It's NFP that is religion based as well.
http://www.nfpandmore.org/NFPManual.pdf

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