Healthcare Mandate

dmiller9274 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:a38ce8f7-c3bd-4015-8ed5-206b3ae04448">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : The cost of COBRA depends on the insurance plan you had with the employer. It is not a different type of insurance. COBRA gives you the option to continue coverage under the employer's plan for the total cost plus an administrative fee (which I believe is around 2%). Most people with coverage through work don't pay the entire amount of their premium - the employer usually pays a good chunk. In my case, I pay about 30% and my employer pays the other 70%. If I get laid off, I can keep my coverage for a period of time but I have to pay what I was paying AND what the employer was paying, plus the adminstrative fee. So, it doesn't matter where you live - it's dependent on what the employer plan is.
Posted by annie912[/QUOTE]
Uhm, yeah, I know that but the cost of insurance varies by location. It's a lot more expensive if you live in a high COL area (like Boston where Star is, and mentioned the monthly expense)

maratea · June 2012

Oh, I'm not advocating for uninsured people to use the ER as their source of primary care. I think that's stupid and I'd like to punch those people. I was just trying to point out the different between health care and insurance, but didn't do a good job of it.

annie912 · June 2012

Also, while an ER can't turn you away, they can and will still bill you - regardless of your ability to pay. Just like anything else, they are providing a service and should be paid for that service. However, for someone who truly can't pay, saying "just go to the ER, they'll treat you" misses what comes after the ER visit. An ER visit is considerably more expensive, so now the person who couldn't pay for regular healthcare in the first place has a huge ER bill that they have to pay, and likely cannot. They will be sent to collections, wages garnished, etc. Unless they can file for bankruptcy (either a full bankruptcy, which is harder to do, or a "medical bankruptcy"), in which case their credit is trashed making it that much harder for them to move up financially and afford insurance in the future, the hospital gets screwed, meaning that they have to up the charges for everyone else to offset what was written off, and you and I are still paying for it in the end.

chelseamb11 · June 2012

So if Obama isn't re-elected, will this mandate still go through or would Romney (assuming he's the GOP candidate) be able to shoot it down?

dmiller9274 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:558359e6-daf6-41c5-b1dd-3c5467782c81">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : I know you guys won't see it this way but regardless of how you feel about the law I think this is a Victory for our court system. The law was passed. Clearly even a VERY conservative justice agreed that it was written in a way that it passes constitutional muster. The system works when you work within the system. I don't think getting angry at the court is useful.
Posted by Starmusica[/QUOTE]
I guess if you feel that the constitution gives the federal government the power to force what services we purchase, then the system worked. I don't feel that way. <div>
</div><div>I'm not angry at the court. I'm disappointed in the fact that so many people are willing to throw their hands up and give the government full control of their lives. Disappointed and disgusted. </div>

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:89ff80f8-4e84-468e-acad-65d0da460a42">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]So if Obama isn't re-elected, will this mandate still go through or would Romney (assuming he's the GOP candidate) be able to shoot it down?
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

The ruling is an enormous victory for the Obama administration.

But no President can just strike shiiit down. Can you imagine that? That would be cray. Nope, it takes a hell of a lot of stuff for that to happen. Since the supreme court has already ruled that the mandate is constitutional it's going to be extremely difficult for a potential Romney administration to get any tracks on it

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:b0a92b43-278c-4ddb-a254-d2b9747e4a64">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : Uhm, yeah, I know that but the cost of insurance varies by location. It's a lot more expensive if you live in a high COL area (like Boston where Star is, and mentioned the monthly expense)
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

But there are different coverage levels - honestly, mine would be about the same as Star's and I'm in Wisconsin which is not really a high COL area. But that's because of the type of coverage I have - covers darn near everything. If I worked where my fiance worked (also in Wisconsin) and had his plan, which doesn't cover as much, my COBRA cost would be lower because the actual plan cost was lower. Location is part of it, but not the primary part because every plan is slightly different. I get what you're saying, though.

maratea · June 2012

Either way you spin it, this whole thing is crap.

One side you have the insurance costs going up, ER non-payers, etc., that have been discussed here already.

Then on the other side, you have those people who don't get coverage, refuse to pay the tax, may get charged with tax evasion and wind up in the already overcrowded jail system. So either way, I'm thinking tax payers are still going to end up getting the bill.

chelseamb11 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:6f6edb3e-48d1-4afb-9801-e56dd77e2cca">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : The ruling is an enormous victory for the Obama administration. But no President can just strike shiiit down. Can you imagine that? That would be cray. Nope, it takes a hell of a lot of stuff for that to happen. Since the supreme court has already ruled that the mandate is constitutional it's going to be extremely difficult for a potential Romney administration to get any tracks on it
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

Very true. I kinda figured, but I wasn't sure. I just feel like it's not going to change anything. Not many people out there are uninsured by choice. If you couldn't afford insurance then, you won't be able to afford it now, unless the cost of insurance goes down.

dmiller9274 · June 2012

Here's where I'd like some clarification from you law school folks. This whole bill was sold on the premise that it's not a tax. Then SCOTUS is saying that it's a tax. You don't need to go through the SCOTUS to do away with a tax, so realistically couldn't this still go away? (I'm aware that it wouldn't be something so simple as to just make it happen, but if moved through the proper channels, couldn't the mandate still be removed since now it's being considered a tax?)

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:8b6440c3-ec6c-4385-b130-04882a8f3b25">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]How is this tax going to work? I am employed and have insurance through my employer. Does this mean that I now have to pay for my premiums as well as an additional tax?
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

I don't know for sure but maybe it just comes out of your paycheck like SS and Medicare?

Starmusica · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:89ff80f8-4e84-468e-acad-65d0da460a42">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]So if Obama isn't re-elected, will this mandate still go through or would Romney (assuming he's the GOP candidate) be able to shoot it down?
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

No. and I doubt a romney adminsitration would be able to get enough votes to repeal it now.

allisong23 · June 2012

On an unrealted note, H's mom is cousins with John Roberts. She wrote him a letter after he was selected congratulating him, and he replied back. If we are ever in DC when the court is in session, we are invited in to see it. Pretty cool.

allisong23 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:8b6440c3-ec6c-4385-b130-04882a8f3b25">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]How is this tax going to work? I am employed and have insurance through my employer. Does this mean that I now have to pay for my premiums as well as an additional tax?
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

No.

Starmusica · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:ff44cb54-4c2a-4b06-9499-d50fa15bae6e">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : I guess if you feel that the constitution gives the federal government the power to force what services we purchase, then the system worked. I don't feel that way. I'm not angry at the court. I'm disappointed in the fact that so many people are willing to throw their hands up and give the government full control of their lives. Disappointed and disgusted.
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

Honestly... and I am definitely more to the left on this but I am ok with government oversight in some sectors- like health care..

The ACA has been critical to getting coverage for a LOT of people. I think a lot of the claims that businesses will simply stop providing insurance is BS. Companies that don't won't be able to attract the same level of talent as companies that do. Businesses need attractive benefit packages to retain employees.

maratea · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:8b6440c3-ec6c-4385-b130-04882a8f3b25">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]How is this tax going to work? I am employed and have insurance through my employer. Does this mean that I now have to pay for my premiums as well as an additional tax?
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]
No, I think what's happening is if you don't have insurance, you'll have to get it through some carrier, or you will pay a fee. So you are ok, since you have insurance through your employer.

Dmills, I wonder if they could get around that, because technically it's not a tax, is it? I mean, it's an 'option'. You can get insurance, or you can pay a fee, either or. I mean, they aren't really taxing anything...right?

chelseamb11 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:a2cae2f2-85d5-4fda-a686-d3cd6a360909">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]On an unrealted note, H's mom is cousins with John Roberts. She wrote him a letter after he was selected congratulating him, and he replied back. If we are ever in DC when the court is in session, we are invited in to see it. Pretty cool.
Posted by allisong23[/QUOTE]

That would be such a cool experience! I'd love to watch it firsthand.

Starmusica · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:3a43184e-f3c4-4188-96ed-5dbd084054f7">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Here's where I'd like some clarification from you law school folks. This whole bill was sold on the premise that it's not a tax. Then SCOTUS is saying that it's a tax. You don't need to go through the SCOTUS to do away with a tax, so realistically couldn't this still go away? (I'm aware that it wouldn't be something so simple as to just make it happen, but if moved through the proper channels, couldn't the mandate still be removed since now it's being considered a tax?)
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

Scotus states that there is existing precedent in which laws that were passed and do not call themselves as a tax, but still effectuate a tax, have been upheld. That is how SCOTUS reached the tax and spending power. Honestly- where one of the more conservative chief justices states this- I am inclined to agree.

And yes- congress could in turn overturn this but I think this won't happen.

maratea · June 2012

Oh, I also wanted to add: I think this decision may actually hurt Obama's chances of re-election. There are plenty of undecided voters and I'd bet that many of them are going to see this as "Obama imposes tax on Americans!" and run the other way when it comes to voting. People don't like the word 'tax'.

allisong23 · June 2012

Here is a short and sweet summation of the verdict.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/the-health-care-decision-explained-in-1-paragraph-on-scotusblog/259097/#

Smash Adams · June 2012

Dammit, I want to read and participate in this thread but I have 7 people lined up to interview.

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:ff44cb54-4c2a-4b06-9499-d50fa15bae6e">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : I guess if you feel that the constitution gives the federal government the power to force what services we purchase, then the system worked. I don't feel that way. I'm not angry at the court. I'm disappointed in the fact that so many people are willing to throw their hands up and give the government full control of their lives. Disappointed and disgusted.
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

I guess I look at it as the government isn't saying what type of insurance I need to have, but that I need to have insurance. In Wisconsin, we have a requirement for car insurance. I have to have insurance or I can't drive. I can get it from which ever carrier I want, but I have to have it. (I'm going to ignore for a moment the obvious arguement that I can just choose not to have a car, yes that's my choice so in effect I am chosing to buy the insurance.) While I may be upset that the state is telling me I have to buy something (and also ignoring the difference between the state mandating something and the federal government mandating something), the fact that the 16 year old who just rear ended my because she was texting and sent me to the ER with severe whiplash was also required to pay for insurance is pretty reassuring.

I get that this is a really charged issue on both sides, but I am not just throwing my hands up and giving the government control of my life. I am, however, in agreement that the system was flawed, costs aren't going down, insurance companies aren't going to lower premiums if they're forced to increase payouts, and so far neither the healthcare industry or insurance industry have been able to get a handle on this themselves.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:eba93bac-4ecc-4d32-89f2-212170f72c46">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh, I also wanted to add: I think this decision may actually hurt Obama's chances of re-election. There are plenty of undecided voters and I'd bet that many of them are going to see this as "Obama imposes tax on Americans!" and run the other way when it comes to voting. People don't like the word 'tax'.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

Oh this, I agree with. I just think it's a victory for the administration because he was elected on the promise of this health care thing, and it's the law now. What happens in its aftermath is yet to be seen.

maratea · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:b94b3f60-ae9a-48c1-b3c8-a0ed23b11faf">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : so far neither the healthcare industry or insurance industry have been able to get a handle on this themselves.
Posted by annie912[/QUOTE]
I quite like you and hope you stick around because you are very well-informed, but this made me giggle. Because LOL at thinking the govt is going to do any better.

Starmusica · June 2012

ok interesting. http://www.scotusblog.com/2012/06/dont-call-it-a-mandate-its-a-tax/

That review actually states it's MORe likely to get repealed now.

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:6a23cf36-3b96-4b00-9e44-dd3a03dd868d">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : I quite like you and hope you stick around because you are very well-informed, but this made me giggle. Because LOL at thinking the govt is going to do any better.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

Very true. Normally I don't give the government the benefit of the doubt like that. Not sure how that slipped past me....

Blueyed228 · June 2012

Im pretty disgusted with the decision.

Im all for healthcare reform, but I would have liked to see it done on a smaller scale so that we knew exactly what each reform bill said and meant. Taking a huge bill and passing it through leaves a lot of room for big problems. If they had come out and done it in smaller sections, like "here is a bill to make it possible for pre-existing conditions to have access", great, pass it. Things like that.

One whole big bill that we "had to pass to know whats in it" is scary to me and too Big Brother for my taste.

Blueyed228 · June 2012

Also- cant wait to see how high my premiums go up in the next few years because of this.

Starmusica · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:c554efd2-541b-4605-8bc3-aa96dc67f96a">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Im pretty disgusted with the decision. Im all for healthcare reform, but I would have liked to see it done on a smaller scale so that we knew exactly what each reform bill said and meant. Taking a huge bill and passing it through leaves a lot of room for big problems. If they had come out and done it in smaller sections, like "here is a bill to make it possible for pre-existing conditions to have access", great, pass it. Things like that. One whole big bill that we "had to pass to know whats in it" is scary to me and too Big Brother for my taste.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

this is interesting. I actually agree. I think both Democrats and Republicans do this far too often. Omnibus bills don't help us because we cannot understand what is actually hidden in there. It's something I would like to see reformed on a congressional level. Won't ever happen though- neither party wants to give this up.

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:b4e7b84d-6ee7-433d-b01b-8cb2eb414fd8">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : Re. the bolding, I don't think you can ignore that difference. I think in passing this law, the federal government way overstepped their bounds.
Posted by djhar[/QUOTE]

The reason that I'm ignoring it is because in the dicussions that I've had with friends/coworkers/family that were against it, they were against it regardless if it was a federal mandate or a state mandate. It seems like people are just (understandably) opposed to being told that they need to do something. If people thought it was such a good idea at the state level, how come more states haven't done this? I have a hard time believing that for many, not all and maybe not the women on this board, that it is truly just an issue of the federal government versus state government. In many of the discussions I've had, it was the actual mandate itself, regardless of where it came from.

As far as whether or not the federal government overstepped its bounds, determining that was the job of the Supreme Court. I get the disagreement, and actually do have a bit of trouble with that myself. But, when all is said and done, I think people are overlooking some of what the plan actually means and what it really can and can't do.

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