Should you have to speak English?

kewltif · May 2010

This is based off of the post below where there are people who seem to feel strongly on both sides. I'm interested to see the results from an anonymous poll.

I purposely didn't put answers like "Maybe" or "It would be helpful, but not necessary," because I think it dilutes the actual answers.

kewltif · May 2010

I don't know why those "\" are appearing in the answers.

Anyway, my answer is no, I don't think you should "have to" learn English. I think we sometimes forget how difficult it can be for an older person to learn a new language. DH moved here when he was 8 and he said after three months he was taken out of ESL and by the nex year he moved up to Gifted and Talented.

It's a whole different story with adults though. His mother speaks fluent English because she had the time to sit down with a tutor and learn. She taught a woman Polish and that woman taught her English. It was sort of a barter system. DH's father can barely speak English because he was busy working the night shift and then building their house on weekends.

mbcdefg · May 2010

I put Special Snowflake ... I don't think people should be forced to learn English, but I also don't think that companies and such should have to bend over backwards making special accommodations for every single person who might not speak it. There are so many languages out there and not enough resources to accommodate everyone.

Julephenia · May 2010

I'm with mbcd.

We don't have an official language, but our education system also doesn't do a great job of teaching both proper English, nor with creating fluency in other languages. (Most European countries have children learning 2 or 3 languages by late elementary school.) So, English is the default language for most children in this country - but that is changing. This may end up creating a need for an official language... which will actually go against what the "Founding Fathers" decided. Even as English colonies, we had many communities of Dutch, German, Swedish, French, and so on speakers. Not to mention the Native American nations and their languages.

On the other hand, the majority does speak English, and the best way to assimilate, advance, and reach the "American dream" is to speak English. This again comes down to education - there are few government-funded, free programs for immigrants to learn English... almost everyone I see is a private company or schools offering classes for a fee - and I have no idea if these are even regulated.

It's terribly complicated. Obviously, moving here and starting life over, frequently with nothing more than a small nest egg, a boatload of guts, and some modicum of skill is horrifically difficult. Adjustment isn't easy, nor is it cheap. Sometimes language is the hardest part.

gibribuz · May 2010

I voted no and I agree with you, Tiffany. People forget how difficult it is to learn a second language. Being able to learn different languages is a skill that not everyone has. I teach high school Spanish and know that there are some students that will NEVER be able to speak it or understand it.

It is also important to remember that many people who do not speak English are too busy providing for their families to be able to formally study the language. Some people work two or three jobs and do not have the time or money to enroll in a county college or English language school.

Even though I don't think people should be forced to learn a second language if they do not want to or are unable to, I do believe that companies with customer service departments should hire people with advanced/superior English skills. I specifically mentioned customer service departments because there are some jobs that do not affect anyone if the employee speaks English or not.

uppereastgirl · May 2010

I'm with you, MB, and Julephenia (ETA: and gibribuz)

And I think that people should cut others slack when they're learning the new language, and shouldn't assume that people who are new to the country are illegal.

jrgoogrl · May 2010

Being first generation born here and growing up speaking English as my first language, I agree with pp. My mother came here when she was 9 and learned English in one summer just listening to the other kids in her neighborhood. My father came to this country in his 20's and lived in Miami, so unfortunately my father still has a sharp accent to this day. But he made an effort to learn how to read, write and speak English. I'm not saying adults from other countries should know how to speak English when they come to this country, but I give the ones who do learn a lot of props for trying to learn the language at their age. It's a difficult task to learn a language at any age, but once you're older it becomes more difficult.

mbcdefg · May 2010

I also find it hilarious that many people who complain that everyone ought to speak English cannot even speak English themselves.

Someone on my Facebook list is a fan of one of those, "Speak English or Get The Fuckk Out of America!" groups. Here are some of the oh-so-intelligent wall postings (underlining is mine):

The best is when i go in2 a store or other business and everything is in spanish.... i live in Chelsea, MA aka lil puerto rico (rite nxt 2 Boston).

I would never have the gull to go a Foreign country and not #1 Have some with me who could translate or #2 know the language.

What about when you do press 1 and you don't get a english speaking person?

what in the hell is rong with america

if u live in this country learn are language

It may not have an official language documented but 82% of america speeks english. Hard to argue with those numbers

cherylanddan0706 · May 2010

Yes you should, I didn't put special snowflake, but I would give x years, if you spend 95% of your time in this country you should speak the language, if you have your life here (I'll say 10 years to be fair) then you need to get with it sorry. You cannot go to another country (France I know specifically) and not speak the language, you are forced to learn it because they will not speak to you in any other language. When 80% of your country speaks a language fluently you learn it, if american became a duel national language of say English and Spanish, and I at my age was forced to learn Spanish I would.

I was talking to this about my girlfriend T who is from South Africa (then London, then America but spend her school age years in SA) when she was there there were two national languages, English and Afrikaans, you had to take both of those, if you failed either you failed school. We speak english in schools here, our money is in english, our street signs are in english, knowing that people don't care about others being forced to learn the language scares me. You want someone driving that has no clue what they are reading? (I'm not speaking of the obvious signs, stop, yield etc)

That being said, if you are not here for most of the year, if you aren't planning on staying, etc then I can definitely understand, but I would think most intelligent people would want to learn it to help them better (like you said with your MIL Tiff)

hollyberry88 · May 2010

If you are here for vacation or an extended trip....no. If you are planning on living here....then you should at least make the effort. My best friend's husband has a friend from Costa Rica who has lived here for 9 years and still does not know how to speak anything but a spattering of English. That I have a problem with.

ffbride_0813 · May 2010

I think this country was built on people who came from other countries and that diversity is what makes this country so awesome. So I would not expect everyone to speak english.

There are however people I do expect to speak english. I expect anyone who does buisness with us to try to speak english. For example I work with people from india and china and I expect them to speak english because they are working for an american company. I also expect people who work for call centers answering US based calls to speak english. And teachers.

And none of these people have to speak well. They just have to understand and be able to hold a pretty basic conversation where we both can understand what the other is saying. .

akmackay · May 2010

"And teachers.

And none of these people have to speak well. They just have to understand and be able to hold a pretty basic conversation where we both can understand what the other is saying. "

You don't think teachers need to speak well? They don't need to be able to have more than a basic conversation? That scares me.

If people are living here they should make the effort to learn and speak English. For some reason it's not showing a poll- but I would vote yes. If they are vacationing here no, but if they are here for an extended period (1+ years) they need to learn some, and longer then that they need to learn to have conversations. I've been there, done that.

ffbride_0813 · May 2010

Well I think teachers do need to speak english. The and teachers should have been after. Clearly I dont speak english well.

But I still dont think that the entire country needs to speak english unless they need to to get by in their everyday life.

mbcdefg · May 2010

If you can't speak English, you're also doing yourself a giant disservice if you want to go outside your community.

If you only speak, say, Portuguese, but you live in Newark, you'll likely get around without a problem because the community is Portuguese and you'll find others who speak the language. If you want to leave Newark to move somewhere else, or go on a vacation, you're screwed without a translator.

If I moved to another country, I admit I'd feel more comfortable living in an area where everyone spoke English if I could find it. But I'd also go stir-crazy living in the same area for my entire life.

MelanieK2011 · May 2010

What frustrates me the most is when non-English speaking patients come into the hospital and we use a translator (typically a staff member who is fluent in the language the patient speaks) or a translator phone service and the patient complains about it. It just annoys me that we're trying to accommodate non-English speakers, and then they have the nerve to complain it's not good enough.

lucreciac · May 2010

My parents came here in their late 20's from South America, and learned to speak English. If they can do it, why can't other people? Granted, if you are elderly, that's one thing, but I think that if you move here to make a better life for yourself, you should learn the language as part of that move. If an American moved to another country, you would be expected to learn another language. I think it's just part of moving to another place. Is it difficult, yes. But it doesn't mean that you shouldn't try.

NJMom050911 · May 2010

I voted Special Snowflake. My parents came here in their 40's when I was 12, for me it came easy I was taken out of ESL within 6 months and put in honor classes. My dad started working with people who spoke English so he picked it up, my mom however settled on working as a cleaning lady and doesn't interact with people (most of the time no one is home when she's there) so she never learned. She tried going to classes etc and just can't pick it up. I think as long as you're not in work position that requires you to clearly communicate I don't think it's necessary to speak the language. However, I do think that you should at least try to learn.

jtheiss · May 2010

I don't think anyone should be forced to learn English or that we should dictate what people can speak in their own homes. But I think that if you're going to live here you need to know enough English to get by in public. Know how to have a transaction with a sales clerk, know how to order your meal at a restaurant, know how to ask for directions. Some of the basics would be helpful.

But I don't get people who get up in arms about not being able to understand a customer service rep and saying things like "if you live here learn our language." Were they speaking to you in Spanish, Chinese, Indian? No. They're speaking to you IN ENGLISH! It may be choppy, you might have to listen more carefully due to their thick accent or incorrect grammar, but they're at least trying to speak "your" language. I think companies should stop outsourcing this type of work to foreign countries or screen employees better for English proficiency to alleviate some of the stress for customers, but we shouldn't get mad at the poor sap who has to field angry customers all day because she/he doesn't speak ENGLISH perfectly.

akmackay · May 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_should-speak-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local Wedding BoardsForum:90Discussion:6469febb-6b66-4e3b-b3ed-62c662191e15Post:94aeb0a5-35e1-464a-9bd5-dcfc40052ed0">Re: Should you have to speak English?</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think anyone should be forced to learn English or that we should dictate what people can speak in their own homes. **No one said that they need to speak English at all times of the day- of course they can speak what they want in their homes** But I think that if you're going to live here you need to know enough English to get by in public. Know how to have a transaction with a sales clerk, know how to order your meal at a restaurant, know how to ask for directions. Some of the basics would be helpful. But I don't get people who get up in arms about not being able to understand a customer service rep and saying things like "if you live here learn our language." Were they speaking to you in Spanish, Chinese, Indian? No. They're speaking to you IN ENGLISH! It may be choppy, you might have to listen more carefully due to their thick accent or incorrect grammar, but they're at least trying to speak "your" language. **I'm sorry, is English not "your" language?** I think companies should stop outsourcing this type of work to foreign countries or screen employees better for English proficiency to alleviate some of the stress for customers, but we shouldn't get mad at the poor sap who has to field angry customers all day because she/he doesn't speak ENGLISH perfectly. **They chose to have a job where they need to speak English ALL day to angry customers. Why should we feel bad for them and spend 3x the amount of time on the phone b/c of misunderstandings? I just don't understand your reasoning here- it's their job. They chose it. They need to learn to speak English fluently, it's part of their job!**
Posted by jtheiss[/QUOTE]

jtheiss · May 2010

akmackay - I never said we should feel sorry for them, this is the job they chose and if they don't like it they can find a new one. But how about a little patience and compassion? Someone thought their English skills were good enough to do the job. Just because they have a thick accent or use adverbs inappropriately shouldn't disqualify them from doing this kind of work. It would be rather discriminatory to only employ people who speak perfect English in a pleasing dialect.

akmackay · May 2010

I have patience and compassion until it gets to the point where neither of us understand eachother. Honestly, I've only had this issue once or twice- I'm just saying that perhaps it isn't the best idea to have someone who is not fluent in English (not saying perfect) to be working that kind of job- particularly when that person decides that they are going to get mad at ME for not understanding them and I ask to speak to someone else.

Lalanav · May 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_should-speak-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local Wedding BoardsForum:90Discussion:6469febb-6b66-4e3b-b3ed-62c662191e15Post:e2d95800-1472-4941-ac21-d8f3220d28ec">Re: Should you have to speak English?</a>:
[QUOTE]I have patience and compassion until it gets to the point where neither of us understand eachother. Honestly, I've only had this issue once or twice- I'm just saying that perhaps it isn't the best idea to have someone who is not fluent in English (not saying perfect) to be working that kind of job- particularly when that person decides that they are going to get mad at ME for not understanding them and I ask to speak to someone else.
Posted by akmackay[/QUOTE]

I would posit the following: what about those who speak English fluently (presumably, anyway, because they were born and raised in this country, but with the way education varies wildly, who really knows who is 'fluent' and actually knows English anymore?), but speak it with a thick Southern accent? I'll admit, I've never had trouble understanding customer service representatives from India or China, but I've had SIGNIFICANT difficulty understanding the few deep-south American customer service reps I've spoken to in the past. Where is the line drawn? Fluency? Accent? Because I certainly can't understand the deep South drawl, and they certainly can't understand my "fast city-speak" but we both speak English (and yes, one woman asked me to please slow my "fast city-speak" so she could better understand me).

I'm also curious about another point that I see a few people making - that immigrants should at least try to learn English. Maybe that's true (and I agree with others who have said that for any position that requires English to get by, it should be a requirement, but I do NOT think that everyone must speak English just because they are here - as I said in the other post, English is not the national language, and it is that way for a very specific reason), but how does anyone know that non-English speakers are not trying? Because they can't speak it? That seems like a very broad assumption of laziness, and most likely wildly incorrect.

Inability to speak a language =/= lack of effort to learn that language.

akmackay · May 2010

Obviously some that try and put forth an effort are still never going to learn the language. I still don't understand how this is an argument. As Cheryl said in one of her posts... English is the language spoken in schools here. If you don't speak English, you take ESL. Yes, there are a lot of other languages spoken and that is amazing that we do have such a "melting pot" in this country. While not official, English is the main language spoken here. Perhaps one day it won't be- and heck maybe the Census will prove me wrong- but I do believe that we are an English speaking country and those living here should try to speak it. Not at home, but when they need to. Maybe I'm being ignorant, but I stick with my saying that I've done it- when you live in a foreign country you learn and speak that language out of respect.

As far as different accents within the US, I used to work in a call center in the South and dealt with many accents. I have never had difficulty understanding a Southern drawl- and yes a few times I was asked to slow down and they laughed at me being from NJ working in FL. But, we never had issues understanding one another it was more making fun of one another b/c we sounded so differently.

Lalanav · May 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_should-speak-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:90Discussion:6469febb-6b66-4e3b-b3ed-62c662191e15Post:c4a8fe26-43b2-4fa3-89a5-7f15394ad2f7">Re: Should you have to speak English?</a>:
[QUOTE]Obviously some that try and put forth an effort are still never going to learn the language. I still don't understand how this is an argument. As Cheryl said in one of her posts... English is the language spoken in schools here. If you don't speak English, you take ESL. Yes, there are a lot of other languages spoken and that is amazing that we do have such a "melting pot" in this country. While not official, English is the main language spoken here. Perhaps one day it won't be- and heck maybe the Census will prove me wrong- but I do believe that we are an English speaking country and those living here should try to speak it. Not at home, but when they need to. Maybe I'm being ignorant, but I stick with my saying that I've done it- when you live in a foreign country you learn and speak that language out of respect.

As far as different accents within the US, I used to work in a call center in the South and dealt with many accents. I have never had difficulty understanding a Southern drawl- and yes a few times I was asked to slow down and they laughed at me being from NJ working in FL. But, we never had issues understanding one another it was more making fun of one another b/c we sounded so differently.
Posted by akmackay[/QUOTE]

I don't see the difference between you never having had a problem understanding a Southern accent and me never having had a problem understanding an Indian or Chinese or something else accent. If you should be able to speak with those people without difficulty, I should be able to speak with people from the South without difficulty. Or is the problem really that they're not American?

And I stick with what I'm saying - you learn to speak the official language out of respect. When there is a country that has no official language, and there are several that are spoken by a large percentage of people, there is no one language that has to be spoken out of respect.

Respect, to me, means acknowledging and accepting that we are a nation of many languages, not just one.

Should you have to speak English?

Re: Should you have to speak English?

The best is when i go in2 a store or other business and everything is in spanish.... i live in Chelsea, MA aka lil puerto rico (rite nxt 2 Boston).

I would never have the gull to go a Foreign country and not #1 Have some with me who could translate or #2 know the language.

What about when you do press 1 and you don't get a english speaking person?

what in the hell is rong with america

if u live in this country learn are language

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