UPDATED Started Marriage Counseling

Time2PlanAWedding:-) · October 2011

*I would like to report that at almost 2 months in or so, I have truly lost track, that my fiance and I have been doing great at abstaining from sex! I'm so proud of us. I truly believe that all the prayers we have been praying have been answered. Only 5 more months to go!*

My fiance and I started marriage counseling last night with our pastor and yesterday also marked 7 months until our wedding. My fiance and I live together and have been living together for about 2 years. We have been together for about 3 1/2 years. Before counseling started the pastor knew we were living together and he basically put two and two together and knew that we where having sex as well. Both my fiance and I had no idea what to expect when it came to marriage counseling and one thing we did not expect was to sign a contract with a few rules. Well, rule #2 on the list was no sexual intercourse until our wedding night. So, that would be 7 months without sex. I don't see this as a big issue for me but I do see it beginning an issue for my fiance. He has already come up with ideas to help him out with it, like play more video games and work out to get rid of any tension or what have you. I will be honest, I didn't expect this rule and it scared me a little because I don't like change, I don't like things to change but this is something we need to do. Our pastor told us that we won't regret doing this, that is will probably be one of the best things we could do for our relationship. So, I'm trusting the pastor and I'm praying that he is right. We had decided to do counseling early to get it out of the way so it would be one less thing we would have to worry about before the wedding, maybe we should of waited a little while longer. ;-) Anyways, I just look at this as a new challenge to our relationship and it is only 7 months. I keep saying we have so much time for the wedding but it will be here before we know it. 7 months will fly by, it is closer than we think. I believe we will make it through this, it is just a new challenge. We will just pray for strength and for the time to pass quickly. Thank you for listening!

fpaemp2011 · October 2011

We'll be praying for you.

Since you've signed a contract with your pastor, is there any way the two of you could find other living arrangements until the wedding, to help with the temptation? I know some couples can live together and remain abstinent, but I've heard about more who struggle with it than succeed.

Just something to think about if it's getting too difficult to stick to the contract and submit to the authority of the pastor you've placed yourselves under.

Time2PlanAWedding:-) · October 2011

Thank you for the prayers. We are going to need them.

We don't really have any other options for living arrangements until the wedding but we do have a second bedroom with a bed. We have already talked about sleeping in separate beds if it comes down to that.

Our pastor was telling us about a few situations where couples have slipped up but he said as long as you come clean right away it will be fine. He said he had one couple who only had to do it for 96 days and slipped up once. We still have 212 days, lol!

I truly and honestly believe that we can do this! We might have to find other ways to channel that tension or whatever you want to call it. Like working out or finding a hobby or something along those lines but I truly believe we can do this. It was a shock at first but it is only 7 months. It could be worse, plus we still have a lot to do with the wedding and life is busy, so, we will find other things to do. Our pastor said we wouldn't regret doing this and I trust him 100%!

WestCoastGirl05 · October 2011

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing... so forgive me. Also, please keep in mind I'm a youth pastor so... I get the whole ministry side of this.

I struggle with pre-marital counseling for this reason exactly. I have a bit of a problem with forced conviction. If this isnt something you and your FI came to of your own accord.. because you were convicted of the Spirit.. then I really dont see how another person has the right to tell you how to handle your relationship. I know I am going against the grain on this one.. and trust me, I applaud you being so open-minded about it. But I worry that most of the last part of your original post sounds like you were trying to convince yourself. I'm not saying you shouldnt abide by your pastors rules... but I can say if some other person other than God put that on me.. I would have walked out and found another person to counsel me... but then again... that is just me. I wish you and your FI all the very best of luck, and I will be praying for you.

Bett2012 · October 2011

I agree with PP to a certain extent, however, as Christians, we are called to lovingly and graciously confront other Christians if we believe they are gripped with a sin. If the pastor made you sign a contract, I think it's evident that he thinks that having sexual relations before marriage is a sin (as do I). The contract may have been his way of confronting you, and when it was signed, he thought all was good. Not sure, just speculation.

And sometimes you just have to do things or not do things because you know it's the right thing to do, or because someone told you to, even if you're not emotionally sold on the idea.

I really hope you guys can hold firm - I think it will make the wedding night and beyond so much better:)

iamjoesgurl · October 2011

I'll be praying too. I hope that you will be able to be open in talking about your struggles with this as I believe it will not be easy. I also believe that God will help you honor this commitment.

Time2PlanAWedding:-) · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:0ab5937e-9b3b-4ee1-abaf-ad7ddfd3c28c">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing... so forgive me. Also, please keep in mind I'm a youth pastor so... I get the whole ministry side of this. I struggle with pre-marital counseling for this reason exactly. I have a bit of a problem with forced conviction. If this isnt something you and your FI came to of your own accord.. because you were convicted of the Spirit.. then I really dont see how another person has the right to tell you how to handle your relationship. I know I am going against the grain on this one.. and trust me, I applaud you being so open-minded about it. But I worry that most of the last part of your original post sounds like you were trying to convince yourself. I'm not saying you shouldnt abide by your pastors rules... but I can say if some other person other than God put that on me.. I would have walked out and found another person to counsel me... but then again... that is just me. I wish you and your FI all the very best of luck, and I will be praying for you.
Posted by briannamarie87[/QUOTE]

I guess you could say I'm struggling with this as well. I'm trying to keep a positive attitude about all of this. We love the church we are attending, the people and the pastor. We love the way the pastor preaches and we have had a long long road trying to find our church home. We feel like we have finally found it. So, I guess we can live with this rule for the next 7 months. My FI is ok with it and for some reason it bothers me because I thought he wouldn't be ok with it. I'm still struggling with trying to understand why that rule is in place when we have already been having sex and he has had other couples in the same situation. I have been praying a lot of strength and I know for sure that God put this situation in front of us for a reason and I pray that we come out with an amazing result. The pastor told us we wouldn't regret this, so, I'm trying to have faith in him. At the same time though I feel confused and scared and a billion other things. I'm not sure why this is getting to me so badly when it isn't bothering the FI at all. I guess we will just see how things play out!

FaithCaitlin · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:0ab5937e-9b3b-4ee1-abaf-ad7ddfd3c28c">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing... so forgive me. Also, please keep in mind I'm a youth pastor so... I get the whole ministry side of this. I struggle with pre-marital counseling for this reason exactly. I have a bit of a problem with forced conviction. If this isnt something you and your FI came to of your own accord.. because you were convicted of the Spirit.. then I really dont see how another person has the right to tell you how to handle your relationship. I know I am going against the grain on this one.. and trust me, I applaud you being so open-minded about it. But I worry that most of the last part of your original post sounds like you were trying to convince yourself. I'm not saying you shouldnt abide by your pastors rules... but I can say if some other person other than God put that on me.. I would have walked out and found another person to counsel me... but then again... that is just me. I wish you and your FI all the very best of luck, and I will be praying for you.
Posted by briannamarie87[/QUOTE]

I was going to keep my mouth shut but I just have to agree with this post.

OP- I will be praying for you!

sessionswedding · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:0ab5937e-9b3b-4ee1-abaf-ad7ddfd3c28c">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing... so forgive me. Also, please keep in mind I'm a youth pastor so... I get the whole ministry side of this. I struggle with pre-marital counseling for this reason exactly. <strong>I have a bit of a problem with forced conviction. If this isnt something you and your FI came to of your own accord.. because you were convicted of the Spirit.. then I really dont see how another person has the right to tell you how to handle your relationship.</strong> I know I am going against the grain on this one.. and trust me, I applaud you being so open-minded about it. But I worry that most of the last part of your original post sounds like you were trying to convince yourself. I'm not saying you shouldnt abide by your pastors rules... but I can say if some other person other than God put that on me.. I would have walked out and found another person to counsel me... but then again... that is just me. I wish you and your FI all the very best of luck, and I will be praying for you.
Posted by briannamarie87[/QUOTE]
THANK YOU!

FWIW, FI and I have only been living together for a couple of months, we've been together for 3.5 years, and the wedding is only a few weeks away. About a month ago we decided to try the waiting until the wedding thing, and made it about 2 days. We did make it a week one time, but that sucked. If we had been under a contract to abstain, we would have either had to lie about it or break the contract. I'm just saying that if you're not personally convicted by the Spirit to wait, it's hard to make it 7 days, much less 7 months. And it doesn't matter if you're living together or not. Even if he moves to another state, you will still see each other before the wedding. It can happen just about anywhere.

RebeccaJac · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:e1582b18-d662-4e17-8105-1363a3a0aa3f">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Started Marriage Counseling : I guess you could say I'm struggling with this as well. I'm trying to keep a positive attitude about all of this. We love the church we are attending, the people and the pastor. We love the way the pastor preaches and we have had a long long road trying to find our church home. We feel like we have finally found it. So, I guess we can live with this rule for the next 7 months. My FI is ok with it and for some reason it bothers me because I thought he wouldn't be ok with it. I'm still struggling with trying to understand why that rule is in place when we have already been having sex and he has had other couples in the same situation. I have been praying a lot of strength and I know for sure that God put this situation in front of us for a reason and I pray that we come out with an amazing result. The pastor told us we wouldn't regret this, so, I'm trying to have faith in him. At the same time though I feel confused and scared and a billion other things. I'm not sure why this is getting to me so badly when it isn't bothering the FI at all. I guess we will just see how things play out!
Posted by Time2PlanAWedding:-)[/QUOTE]

<div>The rule is there because it's not a matter of if you've done it before, it's a matter of doing it at all is no bueno. There is a lot of positive outcomes to waiting. It might seem like your pastor is just being a prude, but they go through a lot of training before they can do premarital counseling so it's not stuff he's just making up. </div><div>
</div><div>If your FI is ok with the waiting thing, is it possible that he did feel convicted before but didn't want to say anything? If you feel God put the situation in front of you, I wouldn't back down on it. It could be confusing, but if you're relationship is stronger than sex (and I'm assuming it is!) you'll be totally fine!
</div>

ravenray · October 2011

I read you post on SB too but didn't respond so I am going to reply in part to that one as well.
If you have any fears of him leaving you because you aren't having sex, talk to him about it. Say " I know this is really stupid but I am having fears about you leaving me because we aren't having sex" I am pretty sure since you said he isn't bothered by it he will say "I love you, our relationship is worth more to me than sex." Talking to him about your fears will help alleviate them. Perhaps you are feeling a little insecure and sex makes you feel wanted? (I have no idea if this is true I am just throwing some ideas out there) I find more comfort then I thought I would in resisting because it shows his devotion to you. I will be praying for you. It is hard to resist but I do believe God will reward you for your choice. God clearly acknowledges that people make mistakes and sin all the time, however for those who turn away from their sin, there is a reward. Good luck, I pray that through this time of prayer and fasting for you, you will grow closer to God and to your FI.

achiduck · October 2011

I'm sorry, but can someone please explain the point of this forced abstinence to me? I really don't see how it could be a positive thing.

ravenray · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:c550ae52-77a1-4f92-be81-50e7b5a821c6">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm sorry, but can someone please explain the point of this forced abstinence to me? I really don't see how it could be a positive thing.
Posted by achiduck[/QUOTE]
<p class="MsoNormal">It was hardly forced since she signed the contract of her own free will. What do you want to know? Premarital sex is a sin so part of being a Christian is working on not sinning. The pastor is within every right to ask them not too and she is within every right to pick someone who doesn't ask her to do that. So nothing is forced about it. I am confused by your question.<span> </span></p>

achiduck · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:019166bd-2123-4626-baf1-5bad88f4d98d">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Started Marriage Counseling : It was hardly forced since she signed the contract of her own free will. What do you want to know? <strong>Premarital sex is a sin so part of being a Christian is working on not sinning.</strong> The pastor is within every right to ask them not too and she is within every right to pick someone who doesn't ask her to do that. So nothing is forced about it. I am confused by your question.
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

You can be a Christian and have premarital sex. No one was smited because of it that I'm aware of.

Never mind. I'm not even going to start in on this.. it's not worth my time.

mrandmrsbrist · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:3b2797c0-9957-4266-9932-aae974fc25d8">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Started Marriage Counseling : You can be a Christian and have premarital sex. No one was smited because of it that I'm aware of. Never mind. I'm not even going to start in on this.. it's not worth my time.
Posted by achiduck[/QUOTE]

She didn't say that you can't be a Christian if you're having pre-marital sex. For someone who's time this isn't worth, you sure are trying to start a fight. Sheesh.

OP - I will be thinking of and praying for you! Abstaining was difficult for us, and we hadn't already been having sex. And honestly, I don't think that YOU can do it.You're going to need to be in prayer about it and trusting God.

achiduck · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:a381240a-a431-4538-9c4c-e81209dac4d4">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Started Marriage Counseling : <strong>She didn't say that you can't be a Christian if you're having pre-marital sex. For someone who's time this isn't worth, you sure are trying to start a fight. Sheesh. </strong>OP - I will be thinking of and praying for you! Abstaining was difficult for us, and we hadn't already been having sex. And honestly, I don't think that YOU can do it.You're going to need to be in prayer about it and trusting God.
Posted by mrandmrsbrist[/QUOTE]
Nope, actually not trying to start a fight. I didn't say you're not worth my time. I said IT'S not worth my time.<div>
</div><div>I asked the question because I really don't see the benefit of all of a sudden changing such a big part of a relationship at someone else's request and I was curious what people seem to think the "positive" is in that but she got super defensive and wouldn't answer the question. Not my fault.</div>

ravenray · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:fe0e48c7-754f-425c-804e-e681889254d7">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Started Marriage Counseling : Nope, actually not trying to start a fight. I didn't say you're not worth my time. I said IT'S not worth my time. I asked the question because I really don't see the benefit of all of a sudden changing such a big part of a relationship at someone else's request and I was curious what people seem to think the "positive" is in that but she got super defensive and wouldn't answer the question. Not my fault.
Posted by achiduck[/QUOTE]
<p class="MsoNormal">Nope I never said that you weren't a Christian if you were having premarital sex. Heck you can still be a Christian even if you think it is ok to have sex before marriage.

I am hardly "defensive" I just didn't understand your question. You talked about being forced and I said no one was forced. The "positives" would be following God's law which if you do that will bring rewards either in Heaven or on Earth. God's law is not always fun or easy but doing it will bring you a reward, just because I can't tell you what that reward is hardly makes me defensive. Did I answer your question?</p>

achiduck · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:d4784a6d-5bc0-4145-bf32-547b41f6f8c7">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Started Marriage Counseling : Nope I never said that you weren't a Christian if you were having premarital sex. Heck you can still be a Christian even if you think it is ok to have sex before marriage. I am hardly "defensive" I just didn't understand your question. You talked about being forced and I said no one was forced. The "positives" would be following God's law which if you do that will bring rewards either in Heaven or on Earth. God's law is not always fun or easy but doing it will bring you a reward, just because I can't tell you what that reward is hardly makes me defensive. <strong>Did I answer your question?</strong>
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]
Nope.. I meant benefits within your relationship with your FI. As in how is it supposed to make your relationship better?

Bett2012 · October 2011

If your relationship with God is better, your relationship with FI will be better too (so long as FI is also committed to God). So by following God's law as PP was saying, the relationship with FI will improve too. (Picture a triangle with God on top, FI and you on the bottom corners. As FI and you get closer to God, you can't help but get closer to each other)

Also, it's just good to practice things needed in marriage such as self control, sacrifice, selflessness, etc.

I don't think that stopping to have sex with FI during engagement will cause a fallout, and if it does, it might be wise to reconsider how deep your friendship/relationship is and if marriage is right at this time.

again, best wishes!

RebeccaJac · October 2011

Oye. The premarital sex fight just keeps rearing it's ugly head-- achiduck, lurk before you stir things up and your questions will get answered.

Ditto the benefits Bett said. I think it would be totally worth it for you and your hubs. It'll be hard-- really hard, but worth it.

achiduck · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:23c81d07-bfc9-4adb-9a94-177eecfaa1a4">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]Oye. The premarital sex fight just keeps rearing it's ugly head-- <strong>achiduck, lurk before you stir things up and your questions will get answered.</strong> Ditto the benefits Bett said. I think it would be totally worth it for you and your hubs. It'll be hard-- really hard, but worth it.
Posted by RebeccaJac[/QUOTE]
I wasn't trying to stir things up. If I wanted to I would have said something much different. I posted here because I genuinely wanted an answer to my question but so far haven't gotten anything that rings bells with me so I'm leaving it alone. Thanks anyway.

RebeccaJac · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:4cdf6049-e052-457f-99f0-a03a583fa868">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]I<strong>f your relationship with God is better, your relationship with FI will be better too (so long as FI is also committed to God). So by following God's law as PP was saying, the relationship with FI will improve too. (Picture a triangle with God on top, FI and you on the bottom corners. As FI and you get closer to God, you can't help but get closer to each other) Also, it's just good to practice things needed in marriage such as self control, sacrifice, selflessness, etc. I don't think that stopping to have sex with FI during engagement will cause a fallout, and if it does, it might be wise to reconsider how deep your friendship/relationship is and if marriage is right at this time</strong>. again, best wishes!
Posted by Bett2012[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>There's an answer. Premarital sex is something around here that people hold to their convictions deeply-- on either side and no ammount of arguing over it is honestly going to change anyone's perspectives.

</div>

WestCoastGirl05 · October 2011

I think that what is important to remember is this... no amount of us arguing is going to change what is Biblical... does that mean everyone abides by it? No... I know I dont... yes I know it's wrong, and I know that God isn't a fan of it. But God also created me knowing who I am, and who I was going to be. For what it's worth, my FI is the only man I have slept with.. why.. because I knew long before we were engaged that I was going to marry him... does that make it right in God's eyes simply because my intentions were good? No... it doesnt.. but it does change how I see it. My FI and I go to church every Sunday... and we have talked about not having sex until our wedding night... but the thing is... neither one of us are conviced about it... and there in lies the ENITIRE POINT of what I was trying to say.

I am assuming that all of us on here are Christians... however, we are not going to have the same convictions.. some of us seriously stand for this one... others of us dont... that doesnt make some of us good and some of us evil and here is the reason why.. because as Christians we ALL SIN... so even if some girls arent out there having sex... that doesnt make them any more holy in the eyes of God than those of us who are... the ground is level at the foot of the cross.. and for those of you girls out there who are waiting... honestly I commned you... I know it's difficult.. and I am in now way, shape or form trying to make you seem like the judegmental ones out there who are trying to make us (those of us who havent waited) feel guilty... I am merely trying to bring what I had originally stated into perspective. Not all of us have the same convictions.. just like not all of us have the same spritiual gifts. God created all of us different, with different limits... and with different capabilities. That doesnt justify pre-marital sex, the Bible is clear it's wrong... but regardless of our individual capacity to follow each and every one of His commandments... He loves us...

My advice with it is this... your only God is God.. not your Pastor.. the part that makes me mad about the OP is that the Pastor is trying to put convictions on you that God clearly did not.. that is not your Pastors place.. it is your Pastors place to guide and lead you and your FH into a Godly relationship.. not put you in "grown-up-time-out" by making you sign a contract that you wont have sex... thats just uncomfrotable... but I applaud you for doing what you feel is best... I just hope that you do it for you... and for all of us girls out there who are ever in this situaiton... I pray that we make decisions that are right with ourselves, our FI, and God... not another sinful human being who feels like they have the right to tell us what to do... just a thought

RebeccaJac · October 2011

So, essentially what you're saying is it doesn't really matter what God wants because whatever you want trumps what he wants... seriously, correct me if I'm wrong.

You use the argument that we need to do what is right with ourselves our FI and our God all the while stating many times that premarital sex is not biblical or sanctioned by God. I don't understand that logic at all.

It totally have struggles and sin patterns and FI and I push the envelope when it comes to physical boundaries and I won't ever deny that, but it's a heart issue. In my heart I truly desire to honor God in my physical relationsip with FI and yes, I will screw up and yes, grace has been handed out over and over and over but be very careful when grace begins to easily dispensable. When grace becomes a mean to justify our actions. That grace came at much to high a price to justify whatever you want. The "everyone sins" argument doesn't cover it. You can't argue that you shouldn't hold yourself to the standards of others, all the while using their sins to justify your own.

I can't put into words how deeply offended I am by your abuse of grace.

WestCoastGirl05 · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:bdb43f06-f3e3-4a79-a715-0f7db7f8a8f8">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>So, essentially what you're saying is it doesn't really matter what God wants because whatever you want trumps what he wants.</strong>.. seriously, correct me if I'm wrong. You use the argument that we need to do what is right with ourselves our FI and our God all the while stating many times that premarital sex is not biblical or sanctioned by God. I don't understand that logic at all. It totally have struggles and sin patterns and FI and I push the envelope when it comes to physical boundaries and I won't ever deny that, but it's a heart issue. In my heart I truly desire to honor God in my physical relationsip with FI and yes, I will screw up and yes, grace has been handed out over and over and over but be very careful when grace begins to easily dispensable. When grace becomes a mean to justify our actions. That grace came at much to high a price to justify whatever you want. The "everyone sins" argument doesn't cover it. You can't argue that you shouldn't hold yourself to the standards of others, all the while using their sins to justify your own. I can't put into words how deeply offended I am by your abuse of grace.
Posted by RebeccaJac[/QUOTE]

I never said that. I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. Neither was it to argue with you. I am in no way "trying to justify" what I do. I was simply stating what is... Yeah I am sure that what I said sounded a little contradictory.. but that is mostly because what is Biblically sound often contradicts human life. You dont have to understand my logic, and frankly, I am not trying to make you. I know that when all of this is said and done you live your life according to what you believe is best, and I will do the same with mine. But be careful, everything you just said sounded awfully judgemental. I am glad that you are doing such a wonderful thing for God by obeying his laws, truly I am... but making me sound like a horrible person by not doing it... not winning anyone over.

In terms of holding myself to others standards, it was never about others standards.. I am not so self-conscious about my standards and how they match up with anyone elses (I am not suggesting that you are). I was simply stating what is true in many cases. There is no justifcation to doing what is wrong, I am not trying to find one. In terms of it being a heart issue, your absolutely right it is a heart issue. But I am curious, if you honestly believe what you said, then why would you attack someone for not possessing the same "heart issue"? Christians are called to be people who point to Christ, people who lead one another to God, and who share in life with one another through the difficult things. If you were a close friend of mine it would make sense for you to say something like, "ya know what, I love you, and I fear for you because this is wrong." And if you were a close friend of mine who knew me, and who knew my heart... I may listen to you... but to be so blatantly rude to stranger because we dont share in beliefs, let me ask you.. did you honestly think that would accomplish something? I do not mean to be rude, and my intention was never to offend you. I wish you and your FI all the very best of luck, and I pray that you continue to find strength in your relationship. I also pray that while you hold strong to your convictions, you do not feel the need to punish others for their lack of the same conviction. Blessings.

RebeccaJac · October 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_started-marriage-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:05dc51dd-4c58-447e-97f7-e64d818d91d3Post:df52a073-9b13-4fa9-bcfa-c51498f55dc3">Re: Started Marriage Counseling</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Started Marriage Counseling : I never said that. I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. Neither was it to argue with you. I am in no way "trying to justify" what I do. I was simply stating what is... Yeah I am sure that what I said sounded a little contradictory.. but that is mostly because<strong> (1)</strong> <strong>what is Biblically sound often contradicts human life</strong>. You dont have to understand my logic, and frankly, I am not trying to make you. I know that when all of this is said and done you live your life according to what you believe is best, and <strong>(2) I will do the same with mine</strong>. <strong>(3) But be careful, everything you just said sounded awfully judgemental</strong>. I am glad that you are doing such a wonderful thing for God by obeying his laws, truly I am... but making me sound like a horrible person by not doing it... not winning anyone over. In terms of holding myself to others standards, it was never about others standards.. I am not so self-conscious about my standards and how they match up with anyone elses (I am not suggesting that you are). I was simply stating what is true in many cases. There is no justifcation to doing what is wrong, I am not trying to find one. <strong>(4) In terms of it being a heart issue, your absolutely right it is a heart issue</strong>. <strong>But I am curious, if you honestly believe what you said, then why would you attack someone for not possessing the same "heart issue"? </strong>Christians are called to be people who point to Christ, people who lead one another to God, and who share in life with one another through the difficult things. <strong>(5) If you were a close friend of mine it would make sense for you to say something like, "ya know what, I love you, and I fear for you because this is wrong." And if you were a close friend of mine who knew me, and who knew my heart... I may listen to you... but to be so blatantly rude to stranger because we dont share in beliefs, let me ask you.. did you honestly think that would accomplish something? </strong>I do not mean to be rude, and my intention was never to offend you. I wish you and your FI all the very best of luck, and I pray that you continue to find strength in your relationship. I also pray that while you hold strong to your convictions, you do not feel the need to punish others for their lack of the same conviction. Blessings.
Posted by briannamarie87[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>1. What is biblical only contradicts life if you allow it to. </div><div>
</div><div>2. It is impossible to live the best life possible at the same time recognizing and choosing to go against God's design. You cannot serve two masters. </div><div>
</div><div>3. I so do not care that I sound judgmental. Frankly, I would be ashamed of myself if a sister in Christ blatantly and intentionally went against scripture and encouraged others to do it and I stood by and said nothing. I have a good deal of crap in my own life I need to work on and if I posted it on the internet, I would hope other Christians would call me out on it. </div><div>
</div><div>4. Sin is the heart issue. You agree that premarital sex is a sin, therefore you have that heart issue. I'm not talking about conviction. I'm talking about sin. You have a heart issue you are unwilling to deal with. That's the difference. It's not one that you "don't have" it's one you are CHOOSING not to deal with. </div><div>
</div><div>5. This is a public forum sweetheart. I can post in response to whatever you say however I want to. Again, I would hate myself if another Christian was deliberately abusing the grace of God and I said nothing. I highly doubt anything I say is going to change your mind. Hell, what the God of the universe says matters nothing to you, so why should some anonymous person on the internet matter? </div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>There have been previous posts on this issue in which I have disagreed, but have never, ever been as offended as I am with your post and the thing that makes all the difference in the world is that you are making the decision to go against God's design for you and encouraging others to do the same. You are recognizing what is in scripture and making the clear choice to say "to hell with it. I'm going to do what I'm going to do because I can." That is very dangerous ground. You are making a choice here. </div><div>
</div><div>If I were you I would spend some serious time with God and let him show you whatever he wants for you. </div><div>
</div><div>

</div>

RebeccaJac · October 2011

So I also just read you're a youth pastor which I just have no words for. That makes this so much worse. So, so much worse.

As a fellow youth pastor, please tell me what you teach on this subject. If your students came to you and asked about premarital sex, what would you tell them? Would it be acceptable for them to be sleeping with their boyfriends?

I am completely speechless. Which is probably a good thing.

WestCoastGirl05 · October 2011

You may call yourself s Christian, but no Christian leader has ever belittled or judged me as horribly as you have For your information, I do teach my youth that pre-marital sex is wrong, because I is. I am not encouraging other girls or telling them it is ok, these women are all adults, they stand for what is right by them, and I know that no amount of me saying one thing or the next is going to change their mind The thing that should really cause one to be speechless is not only that you can refer to God while simultaneously using words like "crap" and "he'll" by that you could br so cruel and judgemental to a complete stranger, and you call yourself a Christian? The Pharisee's thought they had it right to, but we all know how far their self-righteousness got them. regardless o what you think of me, would never belitle, criticize, or judge a brother or sister in Christ, you do not know me from Adam, the idea that you think you can speak into mu life without hardly knowing me is staggering, how is that tactic working for you in the real world "sweetheart"?

RebeccaJac · October 2011

I absolutely agree that I'm getting harsh because I absolutely hold Christian leaders to a higher standard-- and so does God. I have no problem speaking into your life because the thing is, you're leading young adults astray. Students are looking to you to be modeling the life your are telling them to live and you're not doing it. I am not ok with sticking my head in the sand and pretending like what you're doing is no big deal-- because it's a HUGE deal.

Again, the issue is not the sin pattern. The issue is your unwillingness to recognize it as a problem. Everyone sins, everyone has issues they're dealing with and I certainly have mine, but it is my job as a leader to recognize those in my life and by the grace of God work on changing them. As a youth pastor it is my job, my God-given responsibility to ALWAYS be conducting my life in such a way that if a student were to be able to see everything I did, they would not be lead down the wrong path. You are called to live above reproach. I am not judging you as a person. I'm sure you're a great person, but the decision you are making is wrong and you know it.

You cannot lead a double life and have no negative consequences. It will be found out. You need to protect yourself and your FI here. It will ruin your life. I've seen it happen-- with people very close to me and their lives were never the same.

Yes, I do use harsh language for effect. Yes, I have intentionally studied passages on the use of language. Paul used the greek form of sh** in his letters. The foul words are not the problem-- the heart placement is and my heart is in a place of fiercely wanting to protect teenagers and the gospel of Christ. This issue is kinda like poking the mama bear in me.

You have evoked two things I am incredibly passionate about-- teenagers and the gospel and as a result, I will speak to you with intensity. It is the hypocrisy of leaders that causes teenagers to turn away from their faith-- I'm sure the youth ministry books you're reading speak to that.

I'm begging you to reconsider this. You need to come clean to your senior pastor. If what you're doing is peachy, you have nothing to worry about but hidden sins like this will KILL your ministry and no one wants that. I sincerely apologize if I came off as cruel, but I will not apologize for saying the things I've said. Do not let satan get a foothold here. I'm serious it will kill you.

You might interpret this as cruel, but I honestly intend nothing but love. As a fellow pastor, I want you to be protected from this junk. I want your students to be protected. I want your ministry to thrive and it won't as long as Satan has this foothold.

Don't listen to me. Take it worth a grain of salt and move on, but at the very least take some time and pray about it. Let God speak to your heart.

fpaemp2011 · October 2011

Brianna,

Being the wife of a youth pastor, I can say that I'm having the same thoughts as Rebecca right now. I am appalled that you would risk the hearts of your teenagers for selfish, personal desires.

I also have to say that if my children were in your youth group and I knew this about you and your FI, my husband and I would no longer allow them to be under your leadership, and would question a church leadership team who allows someone who is sleeping with a person they are not married to, to be in that position.

You are no longer a baby Christian. You are in an extremely important leadership position, teaching and shepherding the most vulnerable hearts.

‎"Grace does not grant permission to live in the flesh; it supplies power to live in the Spirit." ~ John MacArthur

In Christ,

Emily

sessionswedding · October 2011

"Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them."
- Romans 14:1-3

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