Moms and Maids

FMIL Advice - Heartbroken and Confused (Long!)

So, just to preface, I really just need a place to vent because my FI and I are all talked out over this, and I don't feel like I need to involve talking to my own mother because I don't want more drama to get started.  I figured if anyone would be able to sympathize or offer advice, the lovely Knotties would be the ones.

My wedding is just over a year out.  So, of course, we're in the initial planning stages plus securing a venue.  Since we're starting our journey, we've had to sit down and make a budget.  At this time, my mother is paying for the entirety of the wedding (on her own accord, mind you).  However, just so that my FI's family didn't feel left out, we asked if they planned on contributing for any of the traditional groom's family expenses with the emphasis that if not, we'd pay for all of those things ourselves.  This is where the current trouble began.

I guess I should go back just a bit.  Things have been very, should I say, testy between his family, and FI and me for awhile now.  Over Christmas we had a huge blow-up over his family's "expectations" of me, and the reality that FI and I don't agree with them.  However, we smoothed things over after FMIL called me to apologize at how she had acted.

Recently, FMIL and FSIL have called or written to FI asking if they can help with the wedding.  FI directed them to me, and while I haven't heard from FMIL, I told FSIL that she could help with decorations when the time comes, but that is a LONG time from now.  We've also been very careful to bring up the wedding with FMIL because she has very much tried to take over at several occasions already and we didn't want to give her more reason to do so.

So, back to now, last night we called just to discuss the budget with his family since we don't live in the same area, and while FFIL was very happy and open to helping, FMIL became hostile towards FI.  She said they'd pay for a rehearsal dinner and only offered to pay for the officiant after she found out we were using the one from their families church.  Everything else she insisted that FI pay for himself because SHE had to pay for her wedding so FI should, too.  She then went on to say that she didn't feel like she had much say in the wedding (which has bothered my mom from the get-go because it is my mom who is footing the entire bill).  FMIL is also upset that we're only having 80 or so people at our wedding and even outright told us last night that if we didn't invite people not to expect gifts from them.  We knew this, of course, but we couldn't believe that his mother would be so gift grabby and rude!  She also said that we are always throwing stuff on her.  The engagement was "thrown on her", us not wanting a large wedding was "thrown on her", us not wanting a wedding party was "thrown on her", us trying to include her is "thrown on her", yet she gets upset when we don't talk to her about the wedding.  It truly feels like no win with her.

At this point, my mother has become increasingly annoyed with FI's family because of the way it has hurt FI (and myself) so much, and she has also decided that she will pay for everything.  This has made FMIL angry.  I don't understand.  She said that they wouldn't pay for things because it should be FI's job, but she is upset because my mom has offered and is not making us pay for the wedding on our own.  FI says that this is just her backwards way of feeling guilty that someone else has offered to pay.

In the end, there is just so much stuff with FMIL and it feels like it never ends.  FI has talked to her on multiple occasions and every time she bursts into tears, makes it all about her, and then says she'll never do anything again.  Then she goes off and adds something else to the mix.  FI feels like there is nothing more he can say to her without becoming disrespectful and I'm feeling so hurt at the way she has treated us.  There is so much more, but I have a hard time putting all of it into words because it is so lengthy and hurtful.

I know this is long, and maybe WE are the ones completely in the wrong.  Hopefully someone will read this and comment because I don't know where to go or who to talk to anymore.  FI and I need some advice or words or wisdom or even some comfort.  Or, depending on what people think, a swift kick in the rear for causing trouble.

Just, please, if someone reads this, help.  I don't know where else to go.

Thanks in advance.

Re: FMIL Advice - Heartbroken and Confused (Long!)

  • AutumnFairAutumnFair member
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Alright, just to let you know you are not wrong. Your FMIL is being a major drama queen. Personally, I would not involve her in the wedding anymore besides what she is paying for.

     It sounds to me that your FMIL has A LOT of issues including resentment for no one paying for her wedding (which no parent has to pay for their kid's wedding, she's probably one of those Brides with 'entitlement issues'). 

    Right now you have a double edge sword, she b*tches at you when you talk to her about wedding, she b*tches at you if you don't. Basically, if she has something snarky things to say I would leave her out of it. If she doesn't then just tell her your plans or ask her opinion and let be.

    As for your mom, don't share anymore drama with her. She shouldn't have to know about FMIL actions unless it relates to the guest list. It sounds like she is getting aggravated by the lack of support and rude attitude your FMIL is giving you and your FI and she just doesn't need that kind of stress. So I know it may be hard but just keep your mom away from this drama.

    The MAJOR thing that needs to be done is that your FI needs to set up boundaries for his mom. She needs to learn that her throwing a damn tantrum like 3 year old is not going to get her way. If she starts being crazy he needs to tell her that her actions are not acceptable and he is not to talk to him or you until you two decide to.

    I feel bad for your FFIL, I'm pretty sure he married a crazy drama queen. Good luck to you and your FI.
  • MeganAngelaMeganAngela member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Thank you so much for your response!

    Last night when we called just to see if they wanted to contribute any money to the budget, FI's father was very go with the flow about it and agreed to help however he could.  He told us that when he got married to FI's mom, his family ended up paying for most of the wedding because FI's mom came from a poor family and couldn't afford it (and neither could she).  When we talked to FI's mom, she said that she had to pay for what she could and that FI should do the same.  So, yes.  I could fathom that she has some issues with the fact that her family couldn't afford a wedding and mine can (well, it isn't that we can so much as that we budget, save and start early!).  When we announced our engagement, she saw my ring and complained because hers is 1/3 karat and mine is 3/4.  And she complained IN FRONT of FI's dad.  I can't even describe the face he made when she said that.  It was a mixture of sadness, disappointment, guilt, and so many other emotions.

    You're right.  We shouldn't involve my mother.  We really, really shouldn't.  But FI feels like she is the only parent he has right now that he can go to, if that makes sense.  He puts his foot down constantly with his mother, but she truly just does not listen.  FI thinks that his mom has some issues that he'll never be able to fix because they are just too engrained, and I hate to say that I agree.  I'm not absolving him of his duty, but I don't think that him talking to her more is going to make it better.  It just puts more strain on FFIL because she takes it out on him.  Part of the reason our holidays were so bad is because FI ran interference on something his mother did to me, and she burst into tears and ran and told on him to his dad (AND made it sound worse than it was), and he called us back screaming until FI told him what actually happened.  Then FFIL apologized for jumping the gun.

    I don't know.  She's just making this so hard.  I think that the biggest issue is that I want her to like me.  I've never met parents who didn't.  So I'm dealing with that for the first time and it isn't easy for me.  I need to put on my big girl pants, but it is still hard, y'know?  I'm dress shopping next week and haven't told FMIL or FSIL and I know that it is going to be a big issue when they find out/figure out I've gone without them.  So, I'm just trying to brace myself for the next big "why isn't this about me?" fit that they'll throw. (Just an FYI, but FSIL is a mini version of her mom.  Poor FI and FFIL!).

    In the end, it is just a mess, but I do want to thank you for your response and advice.  It is nice to hear that maybe I'm not crazy and that maybe she is in the wrong and that it isn't me and FI.
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_fmil-advice-heartbroken-confused-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:98b50373-0f11-46e0-b9ad-adc9669839f4Post:b14948ea-5442-47f2-8963-acca586a51b4">FMIL Advice - Heartbroken and Confused (Long!)</a>:
    [QUOTE]So, just to preface, I really just need a place to vent because my FI and I are all talked out over this, and I don't feel like I need to involve talking to my own mother because I don't want more drama to get started.  I figured if anyone would be able to sympathize or offer advice, the lovely Knotties would be the ones. My wedding is just over a year out.  So, of course, we're in the initial planning stages plus securing a venue.  Since we're starting our journey, we've had to sit down and make a budget.  At this time, my mother is paying for the entirety of the wedding (on her own accord, mind you).  However, <span style="font-weight:bold;">just so that my FI's family didn't feel left out, we asked if they planned on contributing for any of the traditional groom's family expenses with the emphasis that if not, we'd pay for all of those things ourselves.  This is where the current trouble began.</span> I guess I should go back just a bit.  Things have been very, should I say, testy between his family, and FI and me for awhile now.  Over Christmas we had a huge blow-up over his family's "expectations" of me, and the reality that FI and I don't agree with them.  However, we smoothed things over after FMIL called me to apologize at how she had acted. Recently, FMIL and FSIL have called or written to FI asking if they can help with the wedding.  FI directed them to me, and while I haven't heard from FMIL, I told FSIL that she could help with decorations when the time comes, but that is a LONG time from now.  We've also been very careful to bring up the wedding with FMIL because she has very much tried to take over at several occasions already and we didn't want to give her more reason to do so. So, back to now, l<span style="font-weight:bold;">ast night we called just to discuss the budget with his family since we don't live in the same area, and while </span>FFIL<span style="font-weight:bold;"> was very happy and open to helping, </span>FMIL<span style="font-weight:bold;"> became hostile towards </span>FI<span style="font-weight:bold;">.  She said they'd pay for a rehearsal dinner and only offered to pay for the </span>officiant<span style="font-weight:bold;"> after she found out we were using the one from their families church. </span> Everything else she insisted that FI pay for himself because SHE had to pay for her wedding so FI should, too.  She then went on to say that she didn't feel like she had much say in the wedding (which has bothered my mom from the get-go because it is my mom who is footing the entire bill).  FMIL is also upset that we're only having 80 or so people at our wedding and even outright told us last night that if we didn't invite people not to expect gifts from them.  We knew this, of course, but we couldn't believe that his mother would be so gift grabby and rude!  She also said that we are always throwing stuff on her.  The engagement was "thrown on her", us not wanting a large wedding was "thrown on her", us not wanting a wedding party was "thrown on her", us trying to include her is "thrown on her", yet she gets upset when we don't talk to her about the wedding.  It truly feels like no win with her. At this point, my mother has become increasingly annoyed with FI's family because of the way it has hurt FI (and myself) so much, and she has also decided that she will pay for everything.  This has made FMIL angry.  I don't understand.  She said that they wouldn't pay for things because it should be FI's job, but she is upset because my mom has offered and is not making us pay for the wedding on our own.  FI says that this is just her backwards way of feeling guilty that someone else has offered to pay. In the end, there is just so much stuff with FMIL and it feels like it never ends.  FI has talked to her on multiple occasions and every time she bursts into tears, makes it all about her, and then says she'll never do anything again.  Then she goes off and adds something else to the mix.  FI feels like there is nothing more he can say to her without becoming disrespectful and I'm feeling so hurt at the way she has treated us.  There is so much more, but I have a hard time putting all of it into words because it is so lengthy and hurtful. I know this is long, and maybe WE are the ones completely in the wrong.  Hopefully someone will read this and comment because I don't know where to go or who to talk to anymore.  FI and I need some advice or words or wisdom or even some comfort.  Or, depending on what people think, a swift kick in the rear for causing trouble. Just, please, if someone reads this, help.  I don't know where else to go. Thanks in advance.
    Posted by MeganAngela[/QUOTE]

    It was wrong of you and fi to ask anyone to contribute to your wedding. If they want to contribute, they will let you know. Suggesting that you and fi would cover their family's 'traditional expenses' was rude, even though you didn't mean it to be. Neither set of parents is obligated to contribute $$ to your wedding. That was a major faux pas, on your part. And as you say, that's where the trouble started.

    Your ILs have offered to host the rehearsal dinner and pay the officiate. That was very generous of them. They are not obligated to cover <span style="font-style:italic;">any</span> expense. You should let them know that you are very thankful for this gift. And since they are hosting this party, it is theirs to plan.

    Don't discuss with either set of parents what the other set in contributing. That should be a private matter between you and fi and each set of parents. You are creating resentment between them.

    I can see your MIL seems to be a very dramatic. You are correct that since she is not paying for the wedding, she really shouldn't try to take control of the planning.Your mom is paying, so she has control over the guest count.  If there is some aspect of the wedding that you feel you can trust her with, let her help out. Remind her that you would like her help with decorations, if she is interested. When the conversations with her turn negative, excuse yourself from the situation. Hang up or walk out. There's no point in arguing with someone who is being unreasonable. If you don't engage her bad side, she might try another strategy, like being nice.

    I'm curious: What were the fils' expectations of you?
                       
  • MeganAngelaMeganAngela member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    @MairePoppy - I guess from your highlighting you are suggesting that we shouldn't have broached the budget topic with them.  I know it is wrong to assume that family will pay for anything, but they had expressed interest in the past for helping out however they could.  Since we are budgeting, we just wanted to get some clarification.  I don't see how that is wrong.  We emphasized that it wasn't expected and that we had already planned to pay for it ourselves, but we wanted to make sure they hadn't planned on paying for something and hadn't told us.  Communication with his family is strained at best, but his mom has been harping on wanting to help out and no one asking, so we asked.

    Sorry if I'm reading you wrong. :)
  • edited December 2011
    Now, I've read and re-read your op. I don't see where you mentioned that his parents initially offered to contribute. I based my answer on the information you gave in your op. Did I miss something?

    If your fils are the ones who offered to help out, then it's okay to clarify exactly what they mean by that.
                       
  • MeganAngelaMeganAngela member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    @MairePoppy

    You're right!  I guess I should have included that.  Like I said, this whole situation has me in such a daze that I can't put all my thoughts in coherently.  My mom offered to and has been setting aside money to pay for the wedding without asking and has kept us abreast of what she will and won't pay for.  When we announced our engagement to FI's family, they immediately declared they'd pay for the rehearsal dinner and help out in anyway they could, but have not said what that would mean (it seemed at the time like they would wait until we came to them on it).  Considering that my mom is paying for the bulk of things, FI wanted clarification on what "anyway they could" would mean for our budget, plus since his mom seemed to want control of some thing the things he tried to discuss with her last night were things like his tux or the corsages and boutonnieres for his family.  Y'know, typical groom stuff.  And, as I said, FI stressed to them that he would pay for it all and had planned to, but since they wanted to contribute here was what was available if they wanted.  Obviously, FMIL does not want, although FFIL does.  Don't know how THAT is going to go over.

    As far as the FIL's expectations, it comes down to how FI's family is more traditional than mine.  We were raised in very different ways and so we have clashes when those differences show.  In my family, you don't get volunteered for things unless you are asked first and you approve.  Also, as a guest, you don't get asked to do chores or do anything outside of your physical capabilities.  In my FI's family, once you are a part of the family it is expected that you are ALWAYS available for whatever a family member needs and that you don't have to be asked to do anything.  It is just expected or you are told with no regard to your own feelings.  I was told I was working a church service over Christmas at my FI's family church even though I don't go there and the service was a bit offensive to me (LONG story).  His family threw a fit saying that if I was part of the family now I'd just need to get over that kind of stuff because it was expected.  Another issue is that I have a back injury that keeps me from doing strenuous heavy labor and his family is very unsympathetic to it and expects me to just help them do heavy labor even if it hurts.  FI rages about that because he thinks that is ridiculous, but that is how their family is.  I mean, there is a lot of stuff (could take ages to write it all).  We probably overreact to most of it, but it's just that there are things that differ from our beliefs that get blown up at times.  Does that make sense?
  • edited December 2011
    Thanks for clarifying. I really read that several times and thought I was losing it : )

    Your fils have no right to volunteer you for things or to expect you to join in their religious services. It would be so much nicer if they would invite you and then accept your decision. At any rate, they have no right to force their religious beliefs on you. At least you and fi are on the same page and he is willing to stand up to his mother.
                       
  • MeganAngelaMeganAngela member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    No, you definitely aren't losing it!  I might be, hence the really unclear post!  When I get emotional about something I have a hard time putting things into words and things always seem to get left out.

    Basically, what you said is how I was raised.  That clashes against with how FI was raised, and while FI definitely thinks like me (mostly because his parents treated a lot of his friends growing up like their personal workers when they would come over and he lost a lot of friends over it), it still makes things harder on us.  Like you said, luckily he stands up to them.  It doesn't seem to do any good, but at least he does it!

    It's just all these little things that keep building and building.  The fact that my FI told me last night that from his mother's attitude that he can tell that she is building to a point where she is going to say something she's going to regret (and she's done it before), it doesn't bode well for things to come. :(
  • edited December 2011
    You and your FI are not in the wrong. You want peace then dont talk about the wedding at all with your MIL. Just tell her the date and time to show up. She is trying to control you guys and you need to stop it now. If she asks about the wedding just tell her the planning is going smoothly...
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  • wegsmomwegsmom member
    Fifth Anniversary 100 Comments 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    While I have to say I agree with previous posters about the fact that you have done nothing wrong, I might suggest that in an effort to be the bigger person and create family harmony, remember she'll be your mother-in-law forever (pause in horror)...............you may want to ask her if there is something special she would like to particpate in.  While I wouldn't give her full control of anything, it might be a step in the right direction to bridging the distance between you too.  Maybe she can select the groom's cake or help her some pick out his tux.

    One more thought:  your FMIL's issues may not be personal.  If she's a control freak, which it sounds like she is, she may be having her own issues accepting the fact that she's not the woman your fiance depends on and confides in anymore.  Some Mom's can't accept that their sons have grown up and starting their own families.

    Best of luck.

    PS  Kudos to your betrothed for taking such an active roll in trying to resolve this problem.  :)
  • LoveMuffinsLoveMuffins member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    FMIL sounds like a pain, and you are definitely not in the wrong. It sounds like she's having trouble letting go of her son, and also having trouble not being the center of attention. Also, perhaps she didn't get the wedding she truly dreamed of, since it was the groom's family who contributed the most financially. And she sounds rather materialistic, so it might be hard to see someone else's wedding dreams come true while hers didn't. Not that any of this makes her behavior acceptable, but it might make it easier to deal with if you start thinking about why she might be acting like such a crazy person and using that to find solutions/ways to deal with her.

    I would definitely not talk to her about any part of the wedding that she's not involved in. Maybe play up the parts that she is... like see if she wants to do a special dress shopping trip for her dress, make sure FI gets her input on the mother/son dance, etc. Maybe even make sure there's some special time set aside for her and FI while he's getting ready. Make her feel a little bit more included on those things, but keep her away from the bulk of the planning.

    Granted... she could also just be one of those impossible people with whom none of this will work because they just aren't happy if they're not having it their way all the time. In which case, the best thing you can do is grin and bear it and have your FI and yourself standing firm as a united team. Definitely don't involve your own mother anymore, and maybe even ask her not to indulge in FMIL's histrionics with any attention. Truthfully, the best thing to do with people who HAVE to be the center of attention is ignore them unless they're behaving properly.

    I hope, for your sake, that she's just going through some issues and is having trouble adjusting to the new situation and that she isn't just BSC... but even if she is, it sounds like you have a wonderful mother of your own, and a wonderful FI who is willing to stand by you and defend you, and if you keep those two things in mind then hopefully the stress will melt away a little =)
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  • MeganAngelaMeganAngela member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_fmil-advice-heartbroken-confused-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:98b50373-0f11-46e0-b9ad-adc9669839f4Post:93589906-2fa0-4380-9a7d-b8960a55e068">Re: FMIL Advice - Heartbroken and Confused (Long!)</a>:
    [QUOTE]While I have to say I agree with previous posters about the fact that you have done nothing wrong, I might suggest that in an effort to be the bigger person and create family harmony, remember she'll be your mother-in-law forever (pause in horror)...............you may want to ask her if there is something special she would like to particpate in.  While I wouldn't give her full control of anything, it might be a step in the right direction to bridging the distance between you too.  Maybe she can select the groom's cake or help her some pick out his tux. One more thought:  your FMIL's issues may not be personal.  If she's a control freak, which it sounds like she is, she may be having her own issues accepting the fact that she's not the woman your fiance depends on and confides in anymore.  Some Mom's can't accept that their sons have grown up and starting their own families. Best of luck. PS  Kudos to your betrothed for taking such an active roll in trying to resolve this problem.  :)
    Posted by wegsmom[/QUOTE]

    <div>The sad part is that we HAVE tried to include her at times, but she insisted that we were just throwing things on her.  The things she has expressed interest in are things that my mother is paying for.  She wants control of those things, but doesn't want to contribute money for said things.  Also, she is not interested in getting FI a groom's cake.  I know he doesn't NEED one, but I know it is something he was looking forward to.  She would have control of that and she won't take it.  She wants control over MY parts of the wedding (i.e. my dress, my bridal party, the guest list, etc.)  That is where the biggest problem lies.  She wants to have her hand in the bride stuff, but not the stuff for her own son.  And it isn't like she is his only child.  She has a daughter about our age, as well!</div><div>
    </div><div>And, yes.  She can't handle that she isn't woman number one anymore and has said as much, but she refuses to change her behavior even though she says she knows it is "wrong". :(</div>
  • MeganAngelaMeganAngela member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    @LoveMuffins, as I said to PP, it seems that his mother wants nothing to do with FI's end of things.  She just wants to have a say on my end of things and is constantly trying to step into my mom's territory.  That is what has made it so hard.  How do I give up control of things that really aren't mine to give up?  How do I make my mother give up control to appease FMIL when she won't help FI with his things instead?

    Then again, some of this could go back to the "expectations" thing I was talking about earlier.  In FI's family the females entering become more of the husband's family than their own, but that is so against anything I am used to.  Plus, on my end, it just isn't going to happen.  If anything, FI has integrated more into my family because they accept him as he is with no expectation and just love him so unconditionally.  He gets love and respect from them that he doesn't get from his own family.  But I'm digressing.

    Either way, thank you so much for your advice.  It has been really helpful!
  • edited December 2011
    While I agree with PPs that said don't talk to her about wedding stuff at all, it seems as though she is bringing it up even when you aren't talking about it.  Sooo...ask her what she would like to contribute to, say thank you, and let it be.  Initially I agreed that you should not necessarily have asked if they wanted to contribute to "traditional" expenses, however if they offered, I think you were fine in asking.  If they're complaining about not being involved, then I don't see a problem asking what they would like to contribute.  I think the biggest problem is the differing opinions between FFIL and FMIL in regards to what to contribute.  FMIL is definitely unhappy that her parents could not pay for her wedding and yours can.  It seems as though she is a bit jealous of your situation, especially after reading your comment about not being woman #1 in FI's life anymore.  

    I would decline their financial help, honestly.  Just avoid the hassle.  And have FI deal with that.  Don't tell your mom what's going on with his parents.  

    And wow, I cannot believe she made that ring comment in front of FFIL! I can't even express how mean that is.  I feel so bad for him!
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