Just Engaged and Proposals

Married and then Engaged...

Okay so my husband and I had been discussing getting married next year when our parents were going to come visit us in Japan so then at least they would be here.  But then we found out there is a huge inspection and we can't take any time off so they won't be able to visit.  Now our parents aren't coming out until August and we have to get married before then so we can go to our next base together.  So then we decided why not just do it before he deploys (end of the month) since our families can't be here anyways.  Three days after we agreed we figured out what need to be done, got the papers translated and got married at the Japanese city hall on 1 September 2010.  On the 3rd my husband planned on taking me to watch the sunrise on the beach (since I had been bugging him about it) but we didn't wake up soon enough so instead we went the next morning.  We took our lab out there and watched her play.  All of a sudden he got down on one knee and asked me to be his wife.  I started bawling.  I wasn't expecting a proposal until he got back from the desert.  And even though we are already "technically" married it was an absolutely amazing feeling.  I can't wait until our "real" wedding so then we can celebrate with all of our loved ones!

Re: Married and then Engaged...

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:495f9b50-d229-495d-a0da-bbc5b98e4a1c">Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Okay so<strong> my husband</strong> and I had been discussing getting married next year when our parents were going to come visit us in Japan so then at least they would be here.  But then we found out there is a huge inspection and we can't take any time off so they won't be able to visit.  Now our parents aren't coming out until August and we have to get married before then so we can go to our next base together.  So then we decided why not just do it before he deploys (end of the month) since our families can't be here anyways.  Three days after we agreed we figured out what need to be done, got the papers translated and got married at the Japanese city hall on 1 September 2010.  On the 3rd <strong>my husband </strong>planned on taking me to watch the sunrise on the beach (since I had been bugging him about it) but we didn't wake up soon enough so instead we went the next morning.  We took our lab out there and watched her play.  All of a sudden he got down on one knee and asked me to be his wife.  I started bawling.  I wasn't expecting a proposal until he got back from the desert.  And even though we are already "technically" married it was an absolutely amazing feeling.  I can't wait until our "real" wedding so then we can celebrate with all of our loved ones!
    Posted by Victoria Cameron[/QUOTE]

    I have to agree with PP here- even if there were circumstances in which you could get legally married but not consider yourself "married" until you had the big white dress party with your loved ones there (which there aren't)- you call this man your husband. You're married, not engaged. And you need to tell people that when you invite them to your vow renewal.
  • I know you are excited and life doesn't always happen the way you want... but this is all kinds of out of order.

    You guys ARE married.  Your lives together have already begun.  Don't forget that!!

    Be excited and plan a renewal that everyone can come together and enjoy - there's nothing wrong with that - but, please remember to be honest with everyone about the situation. 
  • Wow. Um okay. Moments like this I know I was not raised in the civilian world. 

    I was raised in the military and I heard several stories of things like this happening. I don't know your family or friends but I HOPE they can understand that you weren't trying to fool them, and that rules and orders have to be followed. I also really HOPE no one begrudges you a wonderful reception/public ceremony. You were stuck between a rock and a hard place and am trying to make the best of that. I HOPE that can be understood and accepted. Seems that while following military orders you broke knottie rules. Can't win, huh? For my money you picked the right side.

    Also your proposal sounds wonderful, and your H was a wonderful man for knowing you needed a proposal and giving it to you. Sounds like a keeper. :)
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  • I think it was a vey sweet gesture from your husband.  However you've already had your "real wedding", which is the one where is becomes legal. Some girls will burn you for that one.  However enjoy planning your party but please don't call it a wedding because no one is actually getting married at it.
     
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:ba7ffb2c-277f-4fcc-b26c-55a6c59d9745">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I think it was a vey sweet gesture from your husband.  However you've already had your "real wedding", which is the one where is becomes legal. Some girls will burn you for that one.  However enjoy planning your party but please don't call it a wedding because no one is actually getting married at it.
    Posted by HobokenBride2012[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. It isn't an "engagement" when you're already married. It may have been a nice moment and a beautiful ring, but this isn't an engagement or a "real wedding".
  • Wow harsh! I think what she meant was "real" in the terms of her family and friends being there and it being planned out more.  Some people just get really excited and have a wedding planned in their head and want to have that. Circumstanes are different to everyone... Granted technically it wasnt an engagement but my friends were already planning their wedding when her FI purposed bc he could afford a ring and when he could he proposed even though they were 2 wks from their wedding.  Congrats to you!!! Your circumstances are hard for all to understand and you did what you had to do.. Good luck planning their "wedding".
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:0703ebd7-f905-4774-9498-6094188e9820">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Wow harsh! I think what she meant was "real" in the terms of her family and friends being there and it being planned out more.  Some people just get really excited and have a wedding planned in their head and want to have that. Circumstanes are different to everyone... Granted technically it wasnt an engagement but my friends were already planning their wedding when her FI purposed bc he could afford a ring and when he could he proposed even though they were 2 wks from their wedding.  Congrats to you!!! Your circumstances are hard for all to understand and you did what you had to do.. Good luck planning their "wedding".
    Posted by jessienjeremy[/QUOTE]

    The mutual agreement to get married makes you engaged, not the ring. Maybe they didn't tell people they were engaged when they really were, because people get judgmental about a non-ring proposal.

    Yes, OP's husband was really sweet. It was nice for him to do it. However, people always act like they can just have a do-over & no biggie. In some situations guests might not be offended, but in some they are. Plus, brides come on here say they are not telling their families/ friends that they are married.  They hide it. Then someone finds out (it is public record) and a huge fight & hurt feelings ensue.

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  • I agree with redheadsfu. OP is a married woman planning her vow renewal, not an engaged woman planning her wedding. It was very sweet that her husband gave her the "traditional" proposal that she wanted and did not get before the wedding but you can not be engaged to the man you are currently married to. There is nothing wrong with getting married in a court house and then having a vow renewal down the road so you can have the type of party and ceremony that you want as long as everyone knows it is a vow renewal. You can not marry someone you are already married to but you can renew your vows to them. OP, I hopy you have a beautiful vow renewal and it is everything you want. Congrats on your marriage.  
  • You already had your "real" wedding, you choose to JOP so that in this case is your "real" wedding. The event that you are planning to have next year is a vow renewal.

    I hope you told your families that you are married or you plan on telling them in the near future before the vow renewal.
  • So, for the people who chose to JOP it due to personal reasons, are they not really married? Or is the party what makes the marriage valid? 

    It irks me when people say "when we get married for real", because like redhead said, it sounds a little offensive to those who chose to go that route.

    Maybe I'm being an ass by making assumptions here, but all of the military couples that I know personally that got married did so very young, and have different opinions about what constitutes "getting married".
  • Good god you guys lay off her. Congratualtions on your engagement! Your wedding is what you make of it don't listen to all of the people on here that say you already had your real wedding and stuff, I know it is legal but maybe that was just the paperwork part of it for you! Your wedding will be beautiful whether or not you are already legally married. I personally think that when you say your vows to eachother that is the important part! Everybody on this site is really anal about etiquette. And it seems that they always want to rain down on everyone elses parade! Good luck with all of your planning!
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:f69cf256-ace7-439a-81cf-5be3c978c00b">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Good god you guys lay off her. Congratualtions on your engagement! Your wedding is what you make of it don't listen to all of the people on here that say you already had your real wedding and stuff, I know it is legal but maybe that was just the paperwork part of it for you! Your wedding will be beautiful whether or not you are already legally married. I personally think that when you say your vows to eachother that is the important part! Everybody on this site is really anal about etiquette. And it seems that they always want to rain down on everyone elses parade! Good luck with all of your planning!
    Posted by nbcarlson[/QUOTE]

    Thank you for further proving my point.
  • I think you guys just take everything the wrong way. Some people can go the JOP route and say their full vows and have a beautiful meaningful ceremony. That is their choice and it obviously does not mean they are any less married. But you can also say the most simple of vows with a JOP to get the legal stuff out of the way. Then when it works for you have a religious or more meaninful (to you) ceremony. I personally believe that it is when you say your vows to eachother is when you are really married. Signing the papers is just the legal part. You guys are just a bunch of drama queens who take everything the wrong way.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:9934e24c-1446-4401-a24b-fc94a1d7e5db">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I personally believe that it is when you say your vows to eachother is when you are really married. Signing the papers is just the legal part. You guys are just a bunch of drama queens who take everything the wrong way.
    Posted by nbcarlson[/QUOTE]

    Yes, the solemnization (ceremony) makes you married. Unfortunately, your argument fails because every JOP has a ceremony. Darn, the law is <span style="text-decoration:underline;">so</span> complicated.

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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:9934e24c-1446-4401-a24b-fc94a1d7e5db">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I think you guys just take everything the wrong way. Some people can go the JOP route and say their full vows and have a beautiful meaningful ceremony. That is their choice and it obviously does not mean they are any less married. But you can also say the most simple of vows with a JOP to get the legal stuff out of the way. Then when it works for you have a religious or more meaninful (to you) ceremony. I personally believe that it is when you say your vows to eachother is when you are really married. Signing the papers is just the legal part. <strong>You guys are just a bunch of drama queens who take everything the wrong way.</strong>
    Posted by nbcarlson[/QUOTE]

    No, we're a bunch of posters who have seen girls come and go on these boards asking for advice and opinions.

    You strike me as one taking it the wrong way. The comments made were that it isn't an "engagement" once you're already married, because an engagement is an agreement to be married in the future. And once you're married you can't do that. It's common-sense.

    You're not proving anything to anyone in arguing. It's just poor logic on your part. Personally, I don't care if she has a party or not. It doesn't affect me at all, but what I am emphasizing is that it isn't an engagement. But it was thoughtful of her husband to do that for her.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:0703ebd7-f905-4774-9498-6094188e9820">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Wow harsh! I think what she meant was "real" in the terms of her family and friends being there and it being planned out more.  Some people just get really excited and have a wedding planned in their head and want to have that. Circumstanes are different to everyone... Granted technically it wasnt an engagement but my friends were already planning their wedding when her FI purposed bc he could afford a ring and when he could he proposed even though they were 2 wks from their wedding.  Congrats to you!!! Your circumstances are hard for all to understand and you did what you had to do.. Good luck planning their "wedding".
    Posted by jessienjeremy[/QUOTE]

    I didn't finish reading all the other responses, but I agree with this. don't let these girls take away your excitement. we all have to do things differently in response to our own situations. Enjoy your wedding with friends and family! Most couples "commit" to each other before getting married anyhow [i.e. living together, making babies, buying houses etc]. to me, weddings are just a big parties to celebrate with family and friends. it's not "the beginning of a new life together" because most of us started that way before getting married.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:9934e24c-1446-4401-a24b-fc94a1d7e5db">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I think you guys just take everything the wrong way. Some people can go the JOP route and say their full vows and have a beautiful meaningful ceremony. That is their choice and it obviously does not mean they are any less married. But you can also say the most simple of vows with a JOP to get the legal stuff out of the way. <strong>Then when it works for you have a religious or more meaninful (to you) ceremony. I personally believe that it is when you say your vows to eachother is when you are really married.</strong> Signing the papers is just the legal part. You guys are just a bunch of drama queens who take everything the wrong way.
    Posted by nbcarlson[/QUOTE]

    I hate to break it to you but the law does not work this way. You can not go through the legal actions of getting married and then say "well we haven't had the meaningful ceremony so we aren't really married". By your reasoning someone could have the meaningful ceremony as you describe it but not do all the "legal stuff" and be married which is not the case. You are married whether you like it or not after you have gone through the legal actions that validate the marriage. That is not to say that you can't have a party to celebrate that marriage after the fact it just means that you can't pretend that the marriage didn't happen.
  • Wow thanks ladies.  Honestly you have no idea.  For one our family and close friends know and support us 100% thank you.  And secondly let me tell you something.  Him and I are both active duty and don't have the luxuries you do for being able to sit in one place know that we can still live together by waiting to have our "real" wedding.  And the way we had to go about our wedding is not even close to how they do it at City Hall in America.  I got married in a foreign country where their processes are completely different and some states won't even considered me married.  So next time you decide to try and ruin my dream please remember that not everyone is able to have those dreams like civilian women.  Plus how can you understand if your not military...sorry I realize now I have posted this on the wrong blog.  I will stick to the military one where the women there actually understand.  

    One last thing...its no a vow renewal if vows were never said to begin with.
  • Also for those women who had JOP weddings and are reading my post taking it offensively, I apologize.  In no way am I trying to demean your marriage, or claiming that it is not real.  To be quite honest I would rather have had a JOP then what I did.  The reason we don't call ours a "real wedding" is because there was no exchange of vows, or anything like it.  We signed a piece of paper we don't understand and they claimed us to be married, our witnesses even signed the paper ahead of time and didn't need to be there.  So once again I apologize to you, I'm sorry.
  • I am so happy for your engagement!  I am about to do something very similar to you, and I completely understand that you are having your "real" wedding later!  For those of you who plan to have your wedding done by a JOP... then great... congrats on getting what you WANT... but for those of us who WANT  the dress the church the cake and the friends and family... then it can just been seen as "the paperwork".  I would never judge someone for their wedding choice... and I think it is insane that people are being so mean over something they can't understand.  Ignore them, and good luck planning your WEDDING! It will be amazing! :)
  • Adrini76jessienjeremynbcarlsonBrooklclarkdesert*bridedixiegal1340

    Ladies I wanted to personally thank all of you for your kind words and support.  Although its difficult to explain sometimes I'm glad others can seem to understand that although this isn't our first choice in ways to do this, we did what we had to.  I wish all of you the best of luck planning your wedding and I hope it exceeds your greatest expectation.  Good luck to all and congratulations!!!
  • heyimbrenheyimbren member
    2500 Comments
    edited September 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:eb8452f1-1e22-4d46-8866-b383439f21a7">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Also for those women who had JOP weddings and are reading my post taking it offensively, I apologize.  In no way am I trying to demean your marriage, or claiming that it is not real.  To be quite honest I would rather have had a JOP then what I did.  The reason we don't call ours a "real wedding" is because there was no exchange of vows, or anything like it.  <strong>We signed a piece of paper we don't understand and they claimed us to be married</strong>, our witnesses even signed the paper ahead of time and didn't need to be there.  So once again I apologize to you, I'm sorry.
    Posted by Victoria Cameron[/QUOTE]

    You signed something without understanding it? I would never do that. Is your marriage recognized where you live? Because if so, I can understand not considering yourself married.

    But if you had explained that this was the situation first, you would have been given very different responses. We can only respond based on what you posted. And saying that you were married first, then engaged simply sounds backwards. With this other information, it sounds like you may not have been in a real, legal marriage yet at all. So that's different and I understand that then.

    Nobody here said you shouldn't have the celebration you want.
  • Correct me if I'm wrong but you signed the pieces of paper with the intention of being married right?  I'm sorry to rain on your parade but you are married already.  Be happy - its a wonderful thing!
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  • wow, some people are WAY too technical...you go girl! i thought that was the sweetest story I've ever heard, and I hope you guys have a great ceremony when the time happens!
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:87a98c0a-01b2-4371-bcbb-35c04bd14eb8">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Married and then Engaged... : You signed something without understanding it? I would never do that. Is your marriage recognized where you live? Because if so, I can understand not considering yourself married. But if you had explained that this was the situation first, you would have been given very different responses. We can only respond based on what you posted. And saying that you were married first, then engaged simply sounds backwards. With this other information, it sounds like you may not have been in a real, legal marriage yet at all. So that's different and I understand that then. Nobody here said you shouldn't have the celebration you want.
    Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Well I'm sure you would never do something like that because I'm positive you would never be put into this situation and are obviously too close minded to realize.  What part of we live in Japan do you not understand.  Obviously our choices are limited and if my base legal office is instructing me that its okay to sign this document then obviously I'm going to trust those individuals due to my career.  Also I thought in the original post I had explained that we signed these documents in a Japanese city hall.  I don't know but maybe its just me that it would raise a red flag saying this isn't the "normal" American thing to do.  But hey thats just me and I'm not ignorant or close minded, I was raised military and I thank God everyday for it especially when I read posts from women like you.

    </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:495f9b50-d229-495d-a0da-bbc5b98e4a1c">Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Three days after we agreed we figured out what need to be done, got the <strong>papers translated</strong> and got married at the Japanese city hall on 1 September 2010.  Posted by Victoria Cameron[/QUOTE]


    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:eb8452f1-1e22-4d46-8866-b383439f21a7">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE] We signed a piece of paper we don't understand and they claimed us to be married, our witnesses even signed the paper ahead of time and didn't need to be there.  
    Posted by Victoria Cameron[/QUOTE]

    You got the papers translated, so why did you not understand them? I'm sorry but the intent to marry is what is important. Also, states recognize foreign marrages as long as it was legally done in that foreign country. So you are married in the U.S too.

    I really think it was sweet what your husband did. There is nothing wrong with a vow renewal. GL

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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:363e5f21-d2e3-4087-a8b0-eb990f382b33">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Married and then Engaged... : <strong>Well I'm sure you would never do something like that because I'm positive you would never be put into this situation and are obviously too close minded to realize</strong>.  What part of we live in Japan do you not understand.  Obviously our choices are limited and if my base legal office is instructing me that its okay to sign this document then obviously I'm going to trust those individuals due to my career.  Also I thought in the original post I had explained that we signed these documents in a Japanese city hall.  I don't know but maybe its just me that it would raise a red flag saying this isn't<strong> the "normal" American thing to do</strong>.  But hey thats just me and<strong> I'm not ignorant or close minded</strong>, I was raised military and I thank God everyday for it especially when I read posts from<strong> women like you.
    </strong>Posted by Victoria Cameron[/QUOTE]

    What I said I would never do is sign a piece of paper I didn't understand. It isn't about being close minded, it's the fact that I work in a law firm and have two lawyers in the family. I wouldn't sign something until I was sure I understood it, that's the comment I was making. I understand that you live in Japan, that doesn't change my opinion that I wouldn't sign something I didn't understand.

    I don't see what any of my posts had to do with you being in the military. My comments weren't about you being in the military. And about people being ignorant? I'm not American. So I don't even know what you're referring to as the "proper American thing to do".

    I didn't attack you. In fact:

    [QUOTE] So that's different and<strong> I understand that then</strong>. <strong>Nobody here said you shouldn't have the celebration you want.</strong>
    Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE] Personally, <strong>I don't care if she has a party</strong> or not. It doesn't affect me at all, but what I am emphasizing is that it isn't an engagement. <strong>But it was thoughtful of her husband to do that for her.</strong>
    Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

    Try not jumping all over people who are merely responding to what you've posted next time. I said your husband was thoughtful, I said to have the celebration you want. My other advice was to not call it an engagement once you're married and to not sign papers you don't fully understand. You were the one who said you didn't understand them, but if you feel that you did understand them after all then great! Good for you. My concern was in what you posted, and you corrected that so I corrected my response.
  • What part of we are having a marriage ceremony and reception is hard to understand.  We are not having a "vow renewal".  There were no vows said when we signed those papers.  And if I'm not mistaken this is our day, we can do as we please especially when our families support us 100%.  I hope you women have the day you dream of, good luck.
  • heyimbrenheyimbren member
    2500 Comments
    edited September 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_just-engaged-proposals_married-then-engaged?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:683Discussion:151c9554-e1df-4b4e-947c-842f1cf8db0cPost:2533fe29-a14b-4d18-bc1b-600e401456bb">Re: Married and then Engaged...</a>:
    [QUOTE]What part of we are having a marriage ceremony and reception is hard to understand.  We are not having a "vow renewal".  There were no vows said when we signed those papers.  And if I'm not mistaken this is our day, we can do as we please especially when our families support us 100%.  I hope you women have the day you dream of, good luck.
    Posted by Victoria Cameron[/QUOTE]

    I give up on you, you're not even listening.

    It isn't about the vows- that's not the point being made. Nobody even said anything about a vow renewal in the past few posts.
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