Wedding Party

Etiquette and the law

There is a lot of confusion over what etiquette is. The Collins dictionary (I wanted OED, but it's $300 for a year subscription...no) defines it as

a set of customs and rules for polite behavior

I think of it like the law. Where I'm from, EVERYONE goes 5 miles over the speed limit on city streets and more like 10 over on the freeway, to the extent that if you're going 25mph instead of 30 people will be annoyed. This is regional - I know other areas go faster or slower, and on Highway 5 between SF and LA, for example, if you're not going 90 (20 miles over the limit), you're going too slow. But the cops don't accept "but everyone was doing it!" as an excuse because you broke the rules.

That's like etiquette. You can choose to ignore it, maybe even the majority of people in your area do ignore it, but there is no basis for the argument that it's an opinion or that it's subjective. It's a set of social rules, and if someone tells that that what you're doing is poor etiquette, that's an objective fact. Luckily, etiquette is not the law, and you can break it without a fine (I know I have!), but for the love of god, recognize that you're breaking it instead of trying to argue that etiquette is just a frame of mind.

Re: Etiquette and the law

  • Amen Sistah! 

    Well said!
    dont make ur password so easy. gbck2CA2 hahahaha
  • xoxobxoxob member
    1000 Comments
    Hear, hear!!!
  • Unfortunately, I think your target audience is comprised of too many special snowflakes for them to get the message.
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  • My MOH hasn't hit the $2k  mark yet with her couture dress, diamond jewelery, hair, nails, makeup, dyed to match shoes, showers, bachelorette, engagement party, bridal luncheon, bridal tea and spa day yet.  I woudln't be offended if I were her and clearly she's not holding up her end of the bargain.  Everyone I know spends at least $4k on that so I want to kick her out.  Clearly this should be an exception.
  • Can this be posted at the top of EVERY board?  In Bold?
    dont make ur password so easy. gbck2CA2 hahahaha
  • edited April 2010
    Etiquette is like LAW???? That statement is ridiculous on a level I can't even begin to explain. Etiquette is completely subjective, and if laws were subjective then we'd have chaos in our world. The LAW states quite clearly that a certain speed is the legal limit, this is passed by legislative bodies who agree that this is the LAW. While I will admit that often the number that is defined is somwhat subjective, it is written into law and passed through several proceedures to make it law.  Etiqutte is different depending on who you speak to and what region you are in. The law doesn't change like this.  We may have different laws in different jurisdictions, but those laws are solid no matter if you are only visiting that jurisdiction. We cannot claim ignorance of the law to justify an action because it is still written in law somwhere and it is LAW. 

    Every book on etiquette has different beliefs and opinions on what is acceptable. The Knot has etiquette rules about good BM behaviour that you furiously tell people to ignore- a little hypocritical, don't you think? So only Knottie regulars can make the true "LAWS OF ETIQUETTE"???  Ridiculous. There is a big difference between law and rules, Emily. I may have the rule that I can't have candy after 7:00pm in my mom's house, but that's not LAW.   Etiquette is far from a body of law. Please don't try to justify your creation of the "Knottie  Bible" as being like law just because you believe or agree with what the majority of regulars say.
  • Haha, I think I just needed to post this for myself. It's one thing to say "I don't care about etiquette, I'm doing it this way"...I may not agree with your choice, but I'm not the wedding god, I can't stop you. But to justify it by saying "well my etiquette is different" only goes to show that you don't even understand what etiquette is.
  • xoxobxoxob member
    1000 Comments
    do you know what a met-a-phor is?

    Etiquette is universal. If you don't want to follow the rules, that's fine, go ahead and be rude but don't seek validation.
  • [QUOTE]Etiquette is LAW???? That statement is ridiculous on a level I can't even begin to explain[/QUOTE]
    False. You need to re-read.
    [QUOTE]Etiquette is completely subjective, and if laws were subjective then we'd have chaos in our world. The LAW states quite clearly that a certain speed is the legal limit, this is passed by legislative bodies who agree that this is the LAW. While I will admit that often the number that is defined is somwhat subjective, it is written into law and passed through several proceedures to make it law.  Etiqutte is different depending on who you speak to and what region you are in. The law doesn't change like this.[/QUOTE]
    False.
    [QUOTE]We may have different laws in different jurisdictions, but those laws are solid no matter if you are only visiting that jurisdiction. We cannot claim ignorance of the law to justify an action because it is still written in law somwhere and it is LAW. Every book on etiquette has different beliefs and opinions on what is acceptable. The Knot has etiquette rules about good BM behaviour that you furiously tell people to ignore- a little hypocritical, don't you think? So only Knottie regulars can make the true "LAWS OF ETIQUETTE"???  Ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
    False.  Emily Post and Miss Manners teach etiquette.  Knotties try to get you to treat your friends kindly.  The Knot tries to sell you unneccessary wedding related stuff and creating it's own 'etiquette' is a way to do that.
    [QUOTE]There is a big difference between law and rules, Emily.[/QUOTE]
    True.
    [QUOTE]I may have the rule that I can't have candy after 7:00pm in my mom's house, but that's not LAW.   Etiquette is far from a body of law.[/QUOTE]
    True.  But it can be compared to the law.  Using "like" or "as" not "is" or "is the same as."
    [QUOTE] Please don't try to justify your creation of the "Knottie  Bible" as being like law just because you believe or agree with what the majority of regulars say.
    Posted by dea_f[/QUOTE]
    False. Again, see the well accepted etiquette sources.
  • xoxobxoxob member
    1000 Comments
    edited April 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-law?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:da6a296a-54f4-41a4-8e54-655c085dc52ePost:651e9dd0-5dfe-49c1-b694-ea2803265182">Re: Etiquette and the law</a>:
    [QUOTE]XOXO, you seem to really enjoy making snarky posts when you really don't have your own point to prove. It is called a debate. No need to attack me, I've already had my wedding and I treated my guests wondefully thank you. I am not arguing that there aren't socially acceptable ways to treat people or that I wouldn't follow them. I followed what I knew was acceptable within my own region, society and family.  I am a student of logic and I am starting a debate because #1 the comparing laws to etiquette is invalid because they aren't alike and I've proven that; #2 Etiquette is not universal and you will all continue to believe that it is without being able to prove it, while I can put holes in that argument easier than you can all defend it. You cannot say that everyone must follow the rules of etiquette YOU know because they aren't universal.  That is my point
    Posted by dea_f[/QUOTE]

    You're standing alone in your argument.

    I firmly believe they are universal - or, if not universal, they are universally known. (ie, in what region is it considered acceptable to invite people to the birdal shower when they aren't invited to the wedding - everyone shoul know that) How could they not be? I think that regionally accepted trends that are called "etiquette" because they are done in your neighborhood are not "etiquette". They are "cultural norms" that do not necessarily fall into the global sphere of what actually is correct.

    The reason why there are these universal guidelines is so that when you have OOT guests coming to an event you can be prepared that they will be taken aback or perturbed by what is deemed "etiquette" in that region. But, it's not etiquette, it's just accepted in X City, X State.

    You, most definitely, with your redudant justifications are not going to change my mind.
  • xoxobxoxob member
    1000 Comments
    And obviously, I am talking about social rules and regulations, not statutes.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-law?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:da6a296a-54f4-41a4-8e54-655c085dc52ePost:651e9dd0-5dfe-49c1-b694-ea2803265182">Re: Etiquette and the law</a>:
    [QUOTE]XOXO, you seem to really enjoy making snarky posts when you really don't have your own point to prove. It is called a debate. No need to attack me, I've already had my wedding and I treated my guests wondefully thank you. I am not arguing that there aren't socially acceptable ways to treat people or that I wouldn't follow them. I followed what I knew was acceptable within my own region, society and family.  I am a student of logic and I am starting a debate because #1 the comparing laws to etiquette is invalid because they aren't alike and I've proven that.[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Actually, laws and etiquette are very much alike. You even mentioned how laws differ between countries and sometimes cities, states, and counties. Etiquette is social law. You can break it, but there will be social consequences, just as if you break the law, there are legal consequences. It is actually the perfect metaphor, and you are really not that smart.
    <div>
    </div><div>[QUOTE]#2 Etiquette is not universal and you will all continue to believe that it is without being able to prove it, while I can put holes in that argument easier than you can all defend it. You cannot say that everyone must follow the rules of etiquette YOU know because they aren't universal.  That is my point
    Posted by dea_f[/QUOTE]

    </div><div>Actually, as far as at least the U.S. and Canada go, any rules of etiquette that have EVER been discussed here, are universal. It would be completely inappropriate anywhere in either country to only invite some people to dinner, and then everyone to dancing, to kick out bridesmaids for not "helping you enough," to charge for things at a hosted event, etc. So, no, every single rule of etiquette is not universal everywhere. But for all practical purposes, the rules discussed here are universal in the U.S. and Canada (and I suspect pretty much all of the rest of the world).</div><div>
    </div><div>But you are right, there are rules of etiquette that vary be region or country. One example would be in the American South. In the South it is considered polite to respond with "Yes, Ma'am" or "No, Sir." This is a sign of respect in the South, but people would look at you like you are crazy in the North. This actually happened to me by the way. I used to work summers at the Mall of America running rides. I was checking the carousel to make sure everyone was buckled in and I said something to a little boy and he said in a southern accent, "Ma'am?" and I was so confused. I had no idea that he meant, "What?" Anyway, long story short, yes, the rules of etiquette can vary by location, but within the confines of the rules discussed on this forum and where the people posting come from, they are for all practical purposes, universal.
    <div>
    </div></div></div>
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  • can we talk about fun things like beauty and attire.  every time i post a question on there my question is almost ignored and unnoticed.. but about bridesmaids and ettiquette, it seems thats all people wanna talk about now a days.. drama
  • xoxobxoxob member
    1000 Comments
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-law?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:da6a296a-54f4-41a4-8e54-655c085dc52ePost:74ab15ed-983a-46ec-a0f7-037d559d45ed">Re: Etiquette and the law</a>:
    [QUOTE]can we talk about fun things like beauty and attire.  every time i post a question on there my question is almost ignored and unnoticed.. but about bridesmaids and ettiquette, it seems thats all people wanna talk about now a days.. drama
    Posted by healyl99[/QUOTE]


    There are boards for that. Maybe you should just stick to those.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-law?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:da6a296a-54f4-41a4-8e54-655c085dc52ePost:74ab15ed-983a-46ec-a0f7-037d559d45ed">Re: Etiquette and the law</a>:
    [QUOTE]can we talk about fun things like beauty and attire.  every time i post a question on there my question is almost ignored and unnoticed.. but about bridesmaids and ettiquette, it seems thats all people wanna talk about now a days.. drama
    Posted by healyl99[/QUOTE]

    Healy, in all seriousness, I'm not trying to run you off the boards.  I am suggesting that based on your posts, you will probably be more comfortable on the forums of weddingwire.com or weddingbee.com.  You should check them out - they're much more welcoming and accepting there.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-law?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:da6a296a-54f4-41a4-8e54-655c085dc52ePost:651e9dd0-5dfe-49c1-b694-ea2803265182">Re: Etiquette and the law</a>:
    [QUOTE]XOXO, you seem to really enjoy making snarky posts when you really don't have your own point to prove. It is called a debate. No need to attack me, I've already had my wedding and I treated my guests wondefully thank you. I am not arguing that there aren't socially acceptable ways to treat people or that I wouldn't follow them. I followed what I knew was acceptable within my own region, society and family.  I am a student of logic and I am starting a debate because #1 the comparing laws to etiquette is invalid because they aren't alike and I've proven that; #2 Etiquette is not universal and you will all continue to believe that it is without being able to prove it, while I can put holes in that argument easier than you can all defend it. You cannot say that everyone must follow the rules of etiquette YOU know because they aren't universal.  That is my point
    Posted by dea_f[/QUOTE]
    Being repetitive =/= being right.
  • et·i·quette   [et-i-kit, -ket]
    –noun
    1. conventional requirements as to social behavior; proprieties of conduct as established in any class or community or for any occasion.
    2. a prescribed or accepted code of usage in matters of ceremony, as at a court or in official or other formal observances.
    3. the code of ethical behavior regarding professional practice or action among the members of a profession in their dealings with each other: medical etiquette.

    -------------------------------

    There, I've now added my two cents...lol
  • etiquette, name for the codes of rules governing social or diplomatic intercourse. These codes vary from the more or less flexible laws of social usage (differing according to local customs or taboos) to the rigid conventions of court and military circles, and they extend to the legal, medical, and other professions. All cultures include forms of etiquette; often, etiquette has been used to enforce class distinctions, as well as safeguarding against conflict in social interactions.

    - Quote from the Columbia Encyclopedia
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