SoftCups

MedStudent13 · February 2013

Anyone use them? I switched over to them a year ago and I really prefer them over pads or tampons, but one of their advertised features is that you can wear them during your period for mess free sex being as they are essentially a diaphragm working in reverse. Do you think it is acceptable to use them during sex? The intended use is that of a tampon or divacup, but I suppose it could have contraceptive properties by preventing sperm to enter the uterus. The website says that they are not intended to be used as a contraceptive device, but then again so does my basal body thermometer. I can't remember if I had talked about this before on this board or on Catholic Answers.

chelseamb11 · February 2013

Honestly, if they're not made to be contraceptive, then I wouldn't worry about it. They are not skin tight like a diaphragm is, so I'm guessing sperm CAN get in there (I'd be willing to bet they have a bigger dislcaimer there that you can get pregnant if you have sex with one in lol). Not to mention, the chances of you ovulating during your period are EXTREMELY slim, so as long as you're not using one at other points in your cycle, I wouldn't worry about it

agapecarrie · February 2013

When a couple undergoes fertility testing, and they need to test sperm, the only moral way to do it is to use a perferated condom-- so the act is still open to life, but their is a sample collected to test.

I would imagine it's about the same thing. However, the idea of a "barrier" of any kind might play into the emotional and psychological aspects.

TeaForMe · February 2013

If you ever go on the TTC boards, some people ask about using them to help *get* pregnant, though in that case I assume it is putting it in place after having sex to "keep the sperm in". There is an ick factor for me, there...

lalaith50 · February 2013

I've used them before! Using them *will* cause some hindrance to sperm, but since they explicitly say they can't be used as a contraceptive, I wouldn't worry about the moral aspects, unless you have any bit of "hope" that it will deter sperm, ya know what I mean?

*However,* we did try to have sex with it in once (TMI ALERT) and while it "worked," it definitely wasn't ideal and I wouldn't bother with it again - I'm 95% sure I had it in correctly, and I could tell he couldn't go in as far, and afterwards he said that he kept "bumping" it and it was uncomfortable. Maybe my vagina is short or something???

I use a Lunette cup now; I love that it's reusable. Way cheaper! It fits a bit differently than the softcup- you definitely can't have sex with it in.

monkeysip · February 2013

I wouldn't really use the fact that the website says it isn't contraceptive as evidence that it isn't. The company I'm sure has to say that so that a bunch of idiot couples don't blame them for getting pregnant using it.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't block a very significant amount of sperm. With the perforated condom, very little of the sperm is blocked. Most gets through.

I'm not saying that it must be immoral, just that I wouldn't go simply by what the website says to determine whether it is contraceptive at all.

Calypso1977 · February 2013

sex during period = YUCK

lalaith50 · February 2013

<span style="font-size:11px;line-height:14px;">[QUOTE]sex during period = YUCK</span>
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
the point of using them during your period is they keep the "mess" up in you.

Resa77 · February 2013

Divacups/softcups/whatever FREAK ME OUT! I use Creighton, though, so I can't have sex during the heavier to medium part of my period. And then when I'm the lighter part, it's not really messy at all, so it doesn't bother me or H.

Calypso1977 · February 2013

the point of using them during your period is they keep the "mess" up in you.

no....the mess must exit body as soon as possible. get it out! out! ew!!!!

Resa77 · February 2013

no....the mess must exit body as soon as possible. get it out! out! ew!!!!

Lol

professorscience · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:a32c2651-3c8f-49c2-a9ed-6a5ea66f29df">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]the point of using them during your period is they keep the "mess" up in you. no....the mess must exit body as soon as possible. get it out! out! ew!!!!
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

<div>Hahahaha!</div><div>
</div><div>Also, from a medical standpoint, DTD during the heavy days is just pretty unhealthy.</div>

CrazyCatLady3 · February 2013

I have some questions for discussion on the birth control issue.

Why must all sex be open to the creation of life? Why is it not sufficient to serve as a strengthening of the marital bond and expression of love within your marriage?

I did some rudimentary research and the answer I got was that, when birth control is involved, you are not fully and freely giving yourself to your partner. But what if neither partner wants to have children? What if the couple already has more than they can comfortably afford? Wouldn't each partner be able to more fully emotionally and intellectually connect with the other if they know they have the protection of birth control and are not hoping in the back of their minds during the act, gee, I really really hope we don't get pregnant? Couldn't it get to the point in a marriage where one partner is withholding this element of physical affection for justifiable fear of more children, thereby damaging the relationship?

I get that NFP is permissible, but if you are abstaining during fertile periods, aren't you still then not fully "giving yourself" to your spouse in your marriage?

Riss91 · February 2013

I think Christopher West does the best job at explaining this in "Theology of the Body for Beginners"

The idea of marriage is to emulate God/Jesus' relationship with His Church. You are expected to give/sacrifice for your spouse and like God, you are exepcted to be fruitful (according to nature). Creating another life out of your love is the pinnacle of marriage. It literally turns your love into life. If you remove the possibility of children through barriers or pills, the sexual act is no longer fully giving. The sexual act cannot be separated from the procreative. It's purpose is for BOTH love AND procreation. If you don't want to have children, you are called towards a chaste life. This is why the Catholic marriage vows include the statement "Will you accept children willlingly from God?". A couple that doesn't want to have children wouldn't be eligible for marriage in the Church.

NFP gives us the ability to space out children, though you aren't making it impossible to conceive. You are still fully giving yourself and open to children, though you have determined that the liklihood of conception is less. Plenty of natural births come from those that thought they were infertile. We are not all-knowing. God can intervene!

CrazyCatLady3 · February 2013

So if neither partner has any parental instinct but still has the basic human instinct for exclusive love and companionship, they can never be in the good graces of the church?

This is the hardest part for me when I contemplate if I could be catholic--it just seems so strong on the childbearing and I have no maternal instinct whatsoever.

Resa77 · February 2013

Riss explained it very well, but I just want to address specifically a couple of questions you brought up...

1. What about a couple who has good reasons to avoid a pregnancy (financial, health, whatever)? I think this is something that holds a lot of people back from fully embracing the Church's anti-BC stance. Here's the thing...the churches allows for the use of NFP is there are legit reasons to avoid conception. Despite common belief, NFP is as effective as BC. If 99.9% isn't good enough for you, and you have super-duper serious reason to avoid pregnancy, you should be abstaining. Even if Catholics could use BC, you should still be abstaining, as it's the only 100% way to avoid pregnancy. Which brings us to your next question...

2. Doesn't abstaining negatively impact a marriage? Well, statistics would say otherwise. NFP users have a SUPER low divorce rate compared to everyone else. Obviously abstinence isn't breaking up marriages. The thing is, abstaining means sacrificing your own desires for the good of your spouse, and the good of your family. By abstaining for a week or 2 each cycle, you are training yourself to make big sacrifices for your family. When both spouses are in the habit of putting their spouse and their family first, their bond is strengthened.

I will share with you some of my experience in the last 7 months of marriage. During periods of abstinence, I really miss connnecting with my H in that way. There is a level of intimacy that I long for. My H definitely feels the same way, and he also struggles more with desiring sex in a more physical way. During abstinence, we have to be careful to still be intimate, but in a non-sexual way. We spend time talking about deep things; we cuddle and kiss; we do nice things for each other. By the time we're past that fertile window, we're so excited to be reuinited in that physical way, and it makes the anticipation totally worth it. Plus, we both feel like our relationship is strengthened because we HAVE to put effort into connecting on various levels. We also know that neither of us is withholding sex out of spite or any other negative reason, but rather, out of love and respect for one another.

3. When you're abstaining during fertile times, aren't you being closed to life, as opposed to open? Not really...this one is a little trickier, but I know you're very smart, so hopefully I can explain this well! As Catholics, we believe that every individual act of sex must be open to life. When you use contraception, be it physical (condom) or chemical (pill), you are having sex that is closed to life. When you use NFP, you aren't using any barrier. Therefore, each act of sex is open to life (although there's a slim chance of conception). You are not having sex that is closed to life...you're just not having sex during a certain time. So it really comes down to the difference between doing something (using BC) to avoid pregnancy, vs not doing something (aka not having sex) to avoid pregnancy. Does that kinda make sense?

I think you have awesome questions, and I'm so glad you're posting on this board

monkeysip · February 2013

@ Crazy cat

Two people can love each other... and there's nothing wrong with that, but it isn't marriage.

Marriage and sex are by definition life-giving (by nature, if not in reality, so infertile couples can still be life-giving).

It a person really didn't want children, it would be prudent for them not to marry because that's part of what marriage is all about.

I will also add that a lot of mothers didn't have maternal instincts at first. My mom didn't really see herself having children, but my older sister was a bit of an "oops" with my dad. Once my sister was born, she became an amazing mother and was so grateful for my sister, and years later, me.

CrazyCatLady3 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:2baa82cd-de23-4361-a9c8-02c982a35f2b">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]@ Crazy cat Two people can love each other... and there's nothing wrong with that, but it isn't marriage. Marriage and sex are by definition life-giving (by nature, if not in reality, so infertile couples can still be life-giving). <strong>It a person really didn't want children, it would be prudent for them not to marry because that's part of what marriage is all about.</strong> I will also add that a lot of mothers didn't have maternal instincts at first. My mom didn't really see herself having children, but my older sister was a bit of an "oops" with my dad. Once my sister was born, she became an amazing mother and was so grateful for my sister, and years later, me.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

<div>If both partners feel the same way about not having children and want a mutually exclusive, loving, life-long partnership, do you still feel that way? Obviously, if one party wanted children and the other didn't, that would be a different story.</div>

CrazyCatLady3 · February 2013

I think you have awesome questions, and I'm so glad you're posting on this board

Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

Thanks

agapecarrie · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:7af15fd2-1300-4943-a7d8-98e9d24043fa">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: SoftCups : If both partners feel the same way about not having children and want a mutually exclusive, loving, life-long partnership, do you still feel that way? Obviously, if one party wanted children and the other didn't, that would be a different story.
Posted by CrazyCatLady3[/QUOTE]

<div>The basic understanding of what marriage is is for the purpose of children. IT's in the vows in order to be a valid marriage---to be open to children. </div><div>
</div><div>Children bring us out of our selfishness-- they make us be able to sacrifice. This also aids in the marriage relationship. </div><div>
</div><div>Marriage is about giving onself completely to the other, including fertility. Marriage images the love of Christ to His church-- which is at the cross, and where he gives us new life. It also images the trinity-- the love between Father and Son is so complete that it begets a 3rd being-- the Holy SPirit. Children incarnate -- put flesh to the love of the husband and wife. </div>

monkeysip · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:7af15fd2-1300-4943-a7d8-98e9d24043fa">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: SoftCups : If both partners feel the same way about not having children and want a mutually exclusive, loving, life-long partnership, do you still feel that way? Obviously, if one party wanted children and the other didn't, that would be a different story.
Posted by CrazyCatLady3[/QUOTE]

It's not about whether they're in agreement. Like I said, marriage is inherently life-giving. It's the joining of man and woman into one body... and the most supreme fruit of this is a whole new body (a child). There may be circumstance where it isn't possible or prudent to have children (infertility, or circumtances in which the couple could not support a child). But each sexual act should be open to life and completely self-giving.

lalaith50 · February 2013

so... softcups...

(haha...)

monkeysip · February 2013

haha.... don't most of our conversations end up like this?

MedStudent13 · February 2013

Lol. yes. yes they do

MedStudent13 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:a3eacda8-e637-4566-92d6-8c870c74ad86">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't really use the fact that the website says it isn't contraceptive as evidence that it isn't. <strong> The company I'm sure has to say that so that a bunch of idiot couples don't blame them for getting pregnant using it.</strong> That doesn't mean that it doesn't block a very significant amount of sperm. With the perforated condom, very little of the sperm is blocked. Most gets through. I'm not saying that it must be immoral, just that I wouldn't go simply by what the website says to determine whether it is contraceptive at all.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

<div>I'm pretty sure this is the case, which goes back to my point that it is basically a diaphragm working in reverse. Which of course means if it can stop stuff from coming out, it can stop stuff from coming in. But seeing as it is NOT meant to be used with spermicide my guess is that it wouldn't be effective due to insetion/removal.</div><div>That being said... even if it is contraceptive, since the intent is something other than to prevent conception (catch menstrual flow) then it would be permissible, correct? This being a similar situation to using BC pills to treat PCOS or endo instead of to contracept (and yes, we all know it is not the best method of treatment). Anyways, just food for thought. Not to meantion, as was said before, chance of conception the first five days into a cycle are miniscule anyways</div>

MedStudent13 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:2baa82cd-de23-4361-a9c8-02c982a35f2b">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]@ Crazy cat Two people can love each other... and there's nothing wrong with that, but it isn't marriage. Marriage and sex are by definition life-giving (by nature, if not in reality, so infertile couples can still be life-giving). It a person really didn't want children, it would be prudent for them not to marry because<strong> that's part of what marriage is all about.</strong> I will also add that a lot of mothers didn't have maternal instincts at first. My mom didn't really see herself having children, but my older sister was a bit of an "oops" with my dad. Once my sister was born, she became an amazing mother and was so grateful for my sister, and years later, me.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

<div>Although I agree with you, I think we need to realize that CrazyCat isn't Catholic. I think we can all appreciate how vastly different Catholic marriage is from the secular view of marriage (or from other Christian denominations for that matter)</div>

monkeysip · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:f3e8006b-5734-4ccb-a0a7-9d56713227cf">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: SoftCups : Although I agree with you, I think we need to realize that CrazyCat isn't Catholic. I think we can all appreciate how vastly different Catholic marriage is from the secular view of marriage (or from other Christian denominations for that matter)
Posted by MedStudent13[/QUOTE]

True, but she's obviously inquiring into the Catholic perspective, so I'm going to give her the Catholic perspective.

Our society has completely severed sex/marriage from babies, as evidence by contraception, reproductive technologies like IVF, and gay marriage. But even from a secular perspective, undermining the reproductive aspective of sex and marriage has completely shattered societies... leading to broken and unstable families. Marriage has become meaningless, and I think secular people and even protestant christians are struggling to defend marriage as an institution at all.

monkeysip · February 2013

Also, using contraception is only permissible for serious reasons, like serious health issues. I'm not sure if wanting to avoid messy sex would be a legit reason.

professorscience · February 2013

I don't really know anything about soft cups/diva cups/etc, but I just keep thinking one thing:

What if it falls out?

I mean, I get that you're trying to avoid a mess and I suppose that's great, but seriously. That's not a surprise I'd be willing to deal with.

lalaith50 · February 2013

<span style="font-size:11px;line-height:14px;">[QUOTE]I don't really know anything about soft cups/diva cups/etc, but I just keep thinking one thing: What if it falls out? I mean, I get that you're trying to avoid a mess and I suppose that's great, but seriously. That's not a surprise I'd be willing to deal with.</span>
Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]
If it's inserted correclty, I think that's pretty much impossible...The sofcup sits like behind your pelvic bone (I think), it is seriously wedged in there. To get it out, you have to consciously <em>push,</em> and <em>pull</em> with your finger. The vagina narrows/gets tighter as it approaches the exit of your body; it's not just going to like "suprise" pop out.

professorscience · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_softcups?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:ad87de2b-67eb-44ea-8129-27848afdbac2Post:bc9e8576-a3bd-47e0-b7f7-0b8683958682">Re: SoftCups</a>:
[QUOTE]If it's inserted correclty, I think that's pretty much impossible...The sofcup sits like behind your pelvic bone (I think), it is seriously wedged in there. To get it out, you have to consciously push, and pull with your finger. The vagina narrows/gets tighter as it approaches the exit of your body; it's not just going to like "suprise" pop out.
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

<div>That's all probaby very true, but I've heard of girls whose contraceptive ring fell out during sex, so anything's possible.</div>

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