In trouble. Can I have some advice please?

mrsb711 · January 2010

I apologize if this is not the proper place to post this question. I just joined this forum, and I am not a part of any other message board, so I hope it's ok if I post this here. I'm wondering if someone can give me their advice.

About a month ago, fiance and I booked a couples massage at a local spa. On the day of our appointment, we were both feeling sick, and fiance actually had a fever. I probably could have gone and sucked it up, but fiance was in no shape to go anywhere.

I called the spa 6 hours before our appointment to cancel. The receptionist was extremely rude, saying I needed to cancel 24 hours in advance. (24 hours ago was Christmas day, and I couldn't predict illness).

Anyway, I told her we were both ill, apologized and asked to re-schedule. However, she said that I couldn't cancel and that my credit card would be charged the full amount of the session. I said ok, and hung up.

I'm a sneaky one though, and I used an expired credit card to hold the appointment. I always do this, as I don't want them to charge anything before the actual appointment. So clearly since the card was expired to begin with, the charge from the spa didn't go through.

Anyway, fast forward to today where I received a nasty voicemail from the owner of the spa saying because the charge was declined she is having a collections agency come after me for the $180. She does not have my address, or my home phone number, just my cell phone which cannot be traced to an address.

What would you do? Call back and say I'm not paying and to leave me alone? Pay the amount? Or ignore the message. I have never been there before, so they have none of my information on file.

I know it was kind of sketchy cancelling last minute, but I called as soon as I woke up. Plus, the way I see it, the spa should be much more sensitive to H1N1 issues. They should not punish people for staying home when they are ill, nor should they promote people with fevers coming into their spa and potentially infecting their staff and other clients.

Sorry for the novel. I hope someone can help.

FutureMrsL.R.Allen · January 2010

This is not what you want to hear, but you need to pay it. They have a policy in place, I am sure they made you aware of the policy when you booked, you are obligated to pay. The only thing you could do you did, you asked to cancel and not get charged, they said no. Do not ignore the call, they will send it to collections regardless of if they have your home address, and it will ruin your credit. The reason why they have these policies in place is because they have to pay the massage therapist and calling within 24 hours does not give them enough time to cancel with their employee. This is that persons job, their livelyhood. And giving an expired credit card is against the law, they can actually come after you for more than the $180 you owe, so you should be happy that they are not charging you for a declined credit card. Sorry if this is not want you wanted to hear, but it is the truth.

Nebb · January 2010

So you already know what you did is shady, and you have to ask? If they have your credit card number, expired or not, and give it to collections, there is a good chance it will show up on your report. Stop acting like a child and pay your bill. You knew the policy going into it, and after you were told outright.

misspx3 · January 2010

I worked for a hotel for a few years. People would do this all of the time. We could never turn anything over to collections because we did not have a SSN. There is a chance that you might not have to pay this- but at the same time, there is the chance that you will

Izzygrim · January 2010

That's a tough one. Part of me would say forget about it and don't pay, but part of me would be a little worried about it showing up on a credit report. I really doubt that they could take you to collections, so I have NO idea if it would show up or not though, so I'm no help there. I wouldn't think they would even be able to get your name, address, SSN, or anything even if they called your credit card company.

I understand why salons have this policy in place. I understand that they need to pay their employees. However, they are also need to worry about customer service. I think you did the right thing canceling, because, especially with his fever, you didn't want to get their employee or other clients sick. Since you were both sick, whatever you had was likely catchy. Customer service places like that should definitely be sensitive to those situations. And it's not like you just didn't show up, you called as soon as you could. I think it would be a different situation if you weren't originally seriously intending on going. You couldn't call the day before because it was Christmas, and there is no way you could have foreseen this two days prior. IMHO, and this may piss some people off, it's part of the risk she takes owning her own business. There needs to be a little wiggle room in her policy. I would hope that if you called the owner back she would see your side of things too, though if she's been nasty already that might not happen. That sucks, but it's the truth. It's not like you signed a contract with her or something.

Does anyone know if the salon could REALLY take her to collections over this?

TTnoles · January 2010

I have to agree with the majority of the board. The spa booked the appt's with the guarantee that the two of you would show up, a 2 one hour massages missed is a lot of revenue that can't be made up. Last minute cancellations are a HUGE loss of income to the spa/salon but also to the massage therapist (think tips too). In this tough economy I am sure you can understand what that money might have meant to a person. With that being said, yes they can probably send it to a collections agency (although I doubt they will because it would take a lot more manpower without your address and SSN and it might not be worth the time). If i were you I would call back the spa and explain your situation apologize for the missed appt and offer to re-book the services and give them a RELIABLE card this time as well. This way they won't be missing any revenue and you are paying for a service that you will actually receive rather than ponying up $180. Trust me, most spas/salons would rather re-book you. Plus it can't hurt your karma. Good luck!

Nebb · January 2010

Your uncle is an idiot. How can you file a complaint with the BBB for NORMAL business practices in line with their policies that you knew about upfront. Stop being a fucking scum bag.

redheadfsu · January 2010

I have no idea where you are located so I don't know the specific law in your state (plus no one can/should give you legal advice over the internet). But I will say, I don't really agree with your uncle. Committing credit card fraud is never a good thing.

mrsb711 · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:4e64eafa-2a86-4b0f-af73-967d1415dc73">Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]Your uncle is an idiot. How can you file a complaint with the BBB for NORMAL business practices in line with their policies that you knew about upfront. Stop being a fucking scum bag.
Posted by Nebb[/QUOTE]

<div>Do you lash out at everyone like that, or does hiding behind the internet make you feel tough? If it's the former, I really hope you don't have children. I cringe at the thought of how you would react towards them if they did something you found objectionable or something you didn't agree with. </div><div>
</div><div>Was it really necessary to call me a fucking scum bag? Did that make you feel good about yourself? There is a difference between giving constructive advice and being completely rude and inappropriate. </div><div>
</div><div>For your own sake, I wish someone would have taught you it's not what you say, but HOW you say it. </div><div>
</div><div>To everyone else who responded, I truly appreciate all of the other opinions that were written with courtesy and respect. Thank you.</div>

Nebb · January 2010

Uhhuh, doesnt change the fact that youre a scum bag. You know you are too, you said youreself you know what you did was sketchy. You purposely give out credit cards that are inactive to get out of paying things in the future. I just call it like I see it.

jeremys_jacqueline · January 2010

Actually they cannot charge you any service fees if no services were rendered. The court would totally rule in your favor, as I had a similar situation.

I scheduled my ebst friend and I to get massages, and mani pedis to be done the morning of her wedding. we showed up on time, and they told us that our nail lady forgot to bring her stuff and we;d have to wait until she got back, and in the meantime she hadnt scheduled her massage people until after our mani pedis were complete, so now we were just postponed for three hours.... well- obviously that wasnt going to happen so we left and went somewhere else, as time was an obvious issue. Later that month I see a charge for the ENTIRE amount scheduled on my cc statement. I called the credit card company and they reversed, but then she started sending collection lettters. I went to the BBB and they laughed saying this happens all the time, they cannot charge your for services not rendered. You had to have gotten work done, service fees do not apply,even cancellation fees. So obviously they drafted me a letter to the salon owner and she dropped it, its been over a year and nothing since...So- just FYI.

mrsb711 · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:573447ec-519b-4f3a-8eac-885f7e4d6337">Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]Actually they cannot charge you any service fees if no services were rendered. The court would totally rule in your favor, as I had a similar situation. I scheduled my ebst friend and I to get massages, and mani pedis to be done the morning of her wedding. we showed up on time, and they told us that our nail lady forgot to bring her stuff and we;d have to wait until she got back, and in the meantime she hadnt scheduled her massage people until after our mani pedis were complete, so now we were just postponed for three hours.... well- obviously that wasnt going to happen so we left and went somewhere else, as time was an obvious issue. Later that month I see a charge for the ENTIRE amount scheduled on my cc statement. I called the credit card company and they reversed, but then she started sending collection lettters. I went to the BBB and they laughed saying this happens all the time, they cannot charge your for services not rendered. You had to have gotten work done, service fees do not apply,even cancellation fees. So obviously they drafted me a letter to the salon owner and she dropped it, its been over a year and nothing since...So- just FYI.
Posted by jeremys_jacqueline@yahoo.com[/QUOTE]

<div>Thanks very much for your story. So I guess my uncle isn't an idiot after all. I think a good lesson I learned that someone else pointed out is to not take legal advice from people over the internet. </div><div>
</div><div>Thanks again. I'm still going to call BBB tomorrow to see what they say. I'll post their response as a reference for others.</div>

deepcovejackie · January 2010

Asking for legal advice over the internet is about the same as using a fake cc to book an appointment. Both equally "sketchy".

buddhagouda · January 2010

You can call your card company to dispute the charges, or you could have had you used a real card. Using an expired card is fraud. You are an idiot. Your uncle is an idiot. It must run in the family.

Nebb · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:40339c31-7b0f-4bba-b083-a50b42b7cd0c">In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]I apologize if this is not the proper place to post this question. I just joined this forum, and I am not a part of any other message board, so I hope it's ok if I post this here. I'm wondering if someone can give me their advice. About a month ago, fiance and I booked a couples massage at a local spa. On the day of our appointment, we were both feeling sick, and fiance actually had a fever. I probably could have gone and sucked it up, but fiance was in no shape to go anywhere. I called the spa 6 hours before our appointment to cancel. The receptionist was extremely rude, saying I needed to cancel 24 hours in advance. (24 hours ago was Christmas day, and I couldn't predict illness). Anyway, I told her we were both ill, apologized and asked to re-schedule. However, she said that I couldn't cancel and that my credit card would be charged the full amount of the session. I said ok, and hung up. <strong>I'm a sneaky one though, and I used an expired credit card to hold the appointment. I <em>always</em> do this, as I don't want them to charge anything before the actual appointment. </strong>So clearly since the card was expired to begin with, the charge from the spa didn't go through. Anyway, fast forward to today where I received a nasty voicemail from the owner of the spa saying because the charge was declined she is having a collections agency come after me for the $180. She does not have my address, or my home phone number, just my cell phone which cannot be traced to an address. What would you do? Call back and say I'm not paying and to leave me alone? Pay the amount? Or ignore the message. I have never been there before, so they have none of my information on file. I know it was kind of sketchy cancelling last minute, but I called as soon as I woke up. Plus, the way I see it, the spa should be much more sensitive to H1N1 issues. They should not punish people for staying home when they are ill, nor should they promote people with fevers coming into their spa and potentially infecting their staff and other clients. Sorry for the novel. I hope someone can help.
Posted by mrsb711[/QUOTE]
Im just going to quote this, JIC. I truly appreciate all the private message you keep sending me Mrsb711. I needed a laugh today.

tidetravel · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:9ad70c3f-84c2-42d2-a2d6-b6c849c5c3c3">Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please? : Do you lash out at everyone like that, or does hiding behind the internet make you feel tough? If it's the former, I really hope you don't have children. I cringe at the thought of how you would react towards them if they did something you found objectionable or something you didn't agree with. Was it really necessary to call me a fucking scum bag? Did that make you feel good about yourself? There is a difference between giving constructive advice and being completely rude and inappropriate. For your own sake, I wish someone would have taught you it's not what you say, but HOW you say it. To everyone else who responded, I truly appreciate all of the other opinions that were written with courtesy and respect. Thank you.
Posted by mrsb711[/QUOTE]

I would just like to point out that you posted this on a board labeled "snarky brides." What type of responses were you hoping for, exactly.

Oh, and by the way, my father owns a collections business. I 100% assure you that they could find you with a name, phone number and an expired card.

JanoBean75 · January 2010

I wouldn't take advice from any lawyer that can't spell, related or not. I also avoid businesses with misspellings on their Web sites. If their attention to detail is lacking on their marketing materials, then surely it's lacking in their actual work.

What you did was fraud. I will admit, I hate places that have a policy of charging in full if you don't/can't show up for the appointment; even my doctor doesn't charge the full amount. But if that's their stated policy, you have to pay.

Good luck.

lewisc2002 · January 2010

I'm appalled at the behavior some of you are exhibiting. If you have nothing constructive to offer, don't respond. Using profanity or insulting the intelligence of the person looking for advice only reflects poorly on you. That said, if you ever go looking for advice, I hope someone gives you your own medicine and kicks you while you're down.

buddhagouda · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:d2ed6c40-6f99-40b7-9d04-2bb69d325727">Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm appalled at the behavior some of you are exhibiting. If you have nothing constructive to offer, don't respond. Using profanity or insulting the intelligence of the person looking for advice only reflects poorly on you. That said, if you ever go looking for advice, I hope someone gives you your own medicine and kicks you while you're down.
Posted by lewisc2002@hotmail.com[/QUOTE]

<div>I constructively offered that she is an idiot regularly committing fraud. </div>

Nebb · January 2010

Whether calling anyone a scum bag or an idiot reflects badly on me or not, I am not the person continuously committing credit card fraud. Lesser of two evils there.

SarahSmile23 · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:d2ed6c40-6f99-40b7-9d04-2bb69d325727">Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm appalled at the behavior some of you are exhibiting. If you have nothing constructive to offer, don't respond. Using profanity or insulting the intelligence of the person looking for advice only reflects poorly on you. That said, if you ever go looking for advice, I hope someone gives you your own medicine and kicks you while you're down.
Posted by lewisc2002@hotmail.com[/QUOTE]
using an email address as your username reflects poorly on you. i just learned your whole name, where you went to school, and that you are a physician (who specializes in otolaryngology?)

these boards are for honest opinions, not validation. if she wanted validation she could have posted on her local board.

saschaduran · January 2010

Sorry...I have to defend the OP in some ways.

First of all, she never stated that she was aware of a policy that would charge the full amount for a less than 24 hour cancellation policy. She was told after she called. I have never heard of a spa that charges the full amount and I believe she would have a case to only pay a cancellation fee, since the services were never rendered. The spa owner was unwilling to even discuss rescheduling.

Second, is it credit card fraud to RESERVE something on an expired card, or just to PAY for something with an expired card? Sure...I totally agree it is unethical, but I do not think it is actually considered fraud.

But to the OP...it is unethical to purposely give expired cards. If you give a proper card and are mischarged, you dispute it with your credit card company and they can remove the charges. It happens all the time. Thats why it is smart to pay for things with a credit card....you have recourse and proof and someone to back you up.

That being said...I also think the spa owner is unethical and I have never heard of a decent business operating that way.

tidetravel · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:b67df541-a2a3-4ecc-a1ae-f6853e34942d">Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't take advice from any lawyer that can't spell, related or not. I also avoid businesses with misspellings on their Web sites. If their attention to detail is lacking on their marketing materials, then surely it's lacking in their actual work.
Posted by JanoBean75[/QUOTE]

This was my first thought, too.

mishy112 · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_trouble-can-advice-please?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:ba6584f1-9df8-40a0-a09c-8904da0b4a13Post:682113c7-1e81-4fe2-ae3f-1de01c5b7ff5">Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry...I have to defend the OP in some ways. First of all, she never stated that she was aware of a policy that would charge the full amount for a less than 24 hour cancellation policy. She was told after she called. I have never heard of a spa that charges the full amount and I believe she would have a case to only pay a cancellation fee, since the services were never rendered. The spa owner was unwilling to even discuss rescheduling. Second, is it credit card fraud to RESERVE something on an expired card, or just to PAY for something with an expired card? Sure...I totally agree it is unethical, but I do not think it is actually considered fraud. But to the OP...it is unethical to purposely give expired cards. If you give a proper card and are mischarged, you dispute it with your credit card company and they can remove the charges. It happens all the time. Thats why it is smart to pay for things with a credit card....you have recourse and proof and someone to back you up. That being said...I also think the spa owner is unethical and I have never heard of a decent business operating that way.
Posted by saschaduran[/QUOTE]

I agree. OP said she uses expired cards to avoid charges ahead of time, not to actually try to get out of paying for things (granted, this is how it turned out this time). Even if she used a current card, she could get the charges reversed, and she would be in a similar boat. Even if it was spa policy, what about common sense and customer service? Honestly, if you were the spa owner, would you want someone coming in and vomiting all over because they were going to be charged either way? That's just ridiculous. IIt's not like they just didn't show up. Besides, many businesses put a small charge on the card to verify it, which is something the spa could have done to ensure the payment. For future reference though, OP, maybe you could have seen if anyone else could fill the appointments, and you and FI could've partially covered the cost, or you could see if the spa owner will compromise and you could pay less than the full amount for a cancellation fee. Even if they can't or won't really take you to collections, it might be worth it, for karma, y'know? And IMO, calling someone an effing scum bag is beyond snarky. OP asked if she should just pay them; she wasn't just telling us how sneaky she can be.

HappyTummy613 · January 2010

If I were about to drop a bunch of money on some spa appointments, I would research the cancellation policy in advance and, if I didn't like its terms, go elsewhere.

sarabear23 · January 2010

umm, if your uncle is a lawyer, why can he spell schedule correctly?

awilk99 · January 2010

wow this thread is out of control! but i also do have to agree with the majority of this board. when you make appointment at places it is your best interest to know all policies. just because you dont read fine print doest mean your not liable. im not saying its fair, but businesses reserve the right to protect themselves.
I would never go as far as to call someone a scumbag on here, completely not called for..but using an expired card is beyond wrong. maybe the spa treated you that way because they checked on your card and new it was expired..so they didnt see the need to treat you fairly since you didnt give them the same respect. how would they know you would give them the real number asfter services rendered? also i would say handle this properly just for the fact to save your karma...good luck

lyndausvi · January 2010

there are a lot of wrongs by both side.

(1) the OP should never have given a bad credit card. She should have know the policy and realized that even if she was sick, the policy is the policy and that is the chance you take when booking.

(2) since the OP did call and try to reschedule the salon could have been a little nicer about the situation. Most places I know that have such policies will allow you to reschedule because of sickness (who wants to provide a service on someone who is sick?).    Or at the very least give the person a credit. That way the store as the money, but the customer will get the service.

Now, my understanding from a friend who owned a restaurant that had a similar policy, that it is not really legal to charge for service not rendered (especially if they call and just no showed).   He would charge guests for not showing up for a reservation. The credit card company charged back every complaint made by the customer and was told he would lose his credit card privileges if he continued the practice.

From what I understand is most people will not fight the charge. But if customer does fight the charge with the credit card company, then the cc company will reverse the charges. One reason is without a signature, it's hard to prove that the customer actually knew there was even a policy.

Where I work we use to have a ton of no shows and last minute cancellations. We added a 24 hour cancellation policy. We rarely charge for people who cancel under 24 hours, especially if they move to another trips.   But the fear of getting charged has cut down our no shows and cancellations to very low numbers. Which is the whole point of the policy.

erollis · January 2010

First off you should not of given the spa an expired credit card.

Secondly they had no right to charge you the full amount.
Also they should have been understanding if you both were ill.

This is how I feel about businesses and illness: If someone is very ill or has something that could be catching they should not go into work and effect other people (exception: if you work in an office and its just a slight cough please use a face mask and keep to your cube). If you are a client you should not be going out if you are ill and spredding whatever you have around. I think most people like to stay healthy. When I have a cough I use a face mask to keep other people from getting what I have if I can't avoid going out. I also purel and wash my hans like crazy when I catch a cold. I know this sounds gross but I sneeze into my shirt (unless its a really snotty cold) so there is less of a chance for it to go all over the place (my hands also stay cleaner this way).

You both were wrong to some degree. If they did not inform you about the cancellation pollicy or have it posted someplace obvious they should not have charge you for cancelling. Especially if you called well before the appointment.
Be honest and use a card that works. If you don't have a credit card a debit/credit card will work just as well in most casses. Don't be underhanded. People frown upon dishonesty.

In trouble. Can I have some advice please?

Re: In trouble. Can I have some advice please?

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