Kind of sad.

danieliza1127 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:1cde4e25-18ac-451e-aa23-bedf7d0d9b3c">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : I think this is a horrible idea. Perhaps it would work with a rational, logical human being, but FSIL is obviously not a rational, logical human being. I think all it would do is put her on the defensive, open up a can of worms, and make everything worse.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Yeah I agree on this (re: the suggestion of telling her you're still upset about how she treated you in the beginning). You've tried that before and didnt' get a resolution. There are sometimes in life, and with certain people, you need to realize that you are never going to get the resolution or apology you are looking for. You just won't get what you need from that certain person. Once you realize that, it makes it a little easier to decide to either recognize that and move forward, or remove yourself from the situation.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:e98fd69e-432c-45df-a864-af178b749735">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : This should make you not afraid of your wedding! There will be so many people there, it won't just be the 3 of you!
Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]

<div>It does, and it doesn't---but I think it's just because this past weekend is so fresh in my head, and I just want my wedding to be wonderful, that the thought of it at all turning out this was---well, it's kind of sad.</div><div>
</div><div>I don't want to make a pattern of emailing her after every trip, saying again why I am upset, and apologizing for my reactions to her. There's no point---because she will come out again, and the same damn thing happens. I also don't want to stoop to a level where I'm flushing my conversations with her through Rich---if he wants to read the emails, that's fine. But sending them to him directly? Nah. </div>

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:d737c95b-2f4d-42d6-90cf-16769bb63e6d">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : This behavior is ridiculous. No one said anything to her about this?
Posted by vallyhoo[/QUOTE]

Honestly, this reminds me a little of my FI's middle sister. He gets along a LOT better with his youngest sister, and so do I. His middle sister is very negative and immature about a lot of things. And his mother condones it. If she pulled a stunt like this, she wouldn't be reprimanded - FILs would just shrug and ignore it. (Sister just turned 33.) Example: I made dinner one night when FSIL and FMIL wer visiting - something casual, just some spinach/artichoke dip with tortilla chips and veggies - and she threw a tantrum because she wasn't hungry since we had eaten a big lunch.

I kept a smile on my face and just didn't cook again for the rest of the week. (They wanted to go out every night anyway.) Yeah, I feel like she judges me and makes me nervous to be around her. She sulks a lot and never asks questions about me. But this is what passes for normal in their family - after all, they've dealt with her for three decades. She also lives 3,000 miles away.

It is a slight consolation to me that FSIL and FMIL despised FI's last girlfriend, though I don't think they exactly love me. But since I AM marrying their son/brother, they try some of the time. FMIL is a little better at it than FSIL.

britne28 · February 2010

How does Rich act in other situations that are stressful for you? Does he support you then? I can understand him wanting everyone to be civil but if my sister kept forwarding FI's emails to me I would get annoyed and tell her to knock it off. What about bringing Rich to some counseling with you? There very fact that his future wife is so upset about this should be a flag for him. You had a very good point about the whole who is ordering food for whom.

[Deleted User] · February 2010

how can rich and his family expect you to just "get over" being treated so rottenly, when there was no apology or resolution? that's completely unreasonable, not to mention boorish.

here's what i see happening, from an outsider: the sister has an inappropriate relationship with rich. and rich not only condones this - he encourages it.

at the beginning, she tried to block you from taking her place in rich's life. once you got engaged and the wedding approached, she realized her efforts were futile. so she rode the pendulum to the other side and tried to ingratiate herself to you. by having you on her side, it would lessen the risk that you would come between she and rich.

except that's just not how it works. yet his family just expects you to let bygones be bygones without so much as an apology. meanwhile, rich keep's taking his sister's and his family's side instead of your side. now you're on the brink of marrying someone who isn't playing on your team. no wonder this is so upsetting for you.

you're in a real pickle. your wedding is bearing down on you and of course you're freaking out because there's a major red flag there, and little time to do much about it. at the very least, somehow you need to get rich to understand why you're feeling the way you are and he needs to be supportive...before you walk down the aisle.

the real problem here isn't the sister - it's rich.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:f197005f-fd5f-4e42-a72b-1539bdc26a33">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]How does Rich act in other situations that are stressful for you? Does he support you then? I can understand him wanting everyone to be civil but if my sister kept forwarding FI's emails to me I would get annoyed and tell her to knock it off. What about bringing Rich to some counseling with you? There very fact that his future wife is so upset about this should be a flag for him. You had a very good point about the whole who is ordering food for whom.
Posted by britne28[/QUOTE]

<div>He supports me in everything else---I know he often looks out for me in ways I don't look out for myself (i.e. my health). But, his reaction to family issues and my reaction to family issues are just on opposite sides of the spectrum. And, the bottom line is that we see his sister very differently. </div>

RachNRich · February 2010

FWIW----I really appreciate everything you guys are throwing out for me. It's really helping me think things through

britne28 · February 2010

Would he be willing to go to counseling with you over this issue? It is good he supports you in all the other areas but this is a big one. Because either you have to find a way to be ok with the situation (for your own sanity) or he needs to see that you have to be a united front with his sister.

I hope you are able to find a solution to this.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · February 2010

Why ARE you emailing her? How often does she visit? Would just limiting contact with her be a good idea? Wait for her to contact you? It seems no contact might be less awkward and more peaceful than strained, forced, resentful contact that is pretending to be "okay" with everything.

BecW2be · February 2010

I would just copy and paste Daff's last response right here. Rich's sister is not the problem. How you handle Rich's sister is not the problem. How RICH is handling his sister IS the problem. Right down to him not realizing the difference between ordering food for you vs. ordering food for her. And it's truly sucky. I'm sorry. I wish I could tell you how to fix it, but Rich is going to have to fix this one.

katiewhompus · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:6bd445da-5e70-4216-ab1e-17ac63ddf6d7">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE] here's what i see happening, from an outsider: the sister has an inappropriate relationship with rich. and rich not only condones this - he encourages it. at the beginning, she tried to block you from taking her place in rich's life. once you got engaged and the wedding approached, she realized her efforts were futile. so she rode the pendulum to the other side and tried to ingratiate herself to you. the real problem here isn't the sister - it's rich.
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]

I hate to say it but I think Daff hit it on the head. She realized that being a bitch directly to you wouldn't get you to leave her brother (and give her the attention back), so instead she is just going to make your life miserable (even if she doesn't realize she's doing it) and make the marriage so difficult (as far as family goes) that she gets her brother back to herself.

I honestly don't know how you've been this patient with everything. I think after the "well why can he order your food" comment I would have said "Rich, either you marry me or you marry your sister, but I'm not cool with you being married to both of us." A guy can love his sister and support her without acting like her husband or putting her well being in front of his wife's emotional state.

The only advice I can think of is do the stupid fake small talk. "Hi how was your day" "Oh good how was your day" "oh good, hows work" "good hows your work". Just pretend its a play and you are merely an actor. Then move to Australia...

Judging by past posts (like the one from the last visit) I don't think you are being unreasonable. It's not like you are going home and going "ugh she's a bitch" and intentionally being a drama queen. Having such a huge emotional response is a major indicator of a problem, and I do think Rich needs to buck up and deal with the fact that his sister is having such a horrible emotional impact on the person he loves.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:f2c58354-9bfe-4187-9463-7bf4eff6af24">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : I hate to say it but I think Daff hit it on the head. She realized that being a bitch directly to you wouldn't get you to leave her brother (and give her the attention back), so instead she is just going to make your life miserable (even if she doesn't realize she's doing it) and make the marriage so difficult (as far as family goes) that she gets her brother back to herself. I honestly don't know how you've been this patient with everything. I think after the "well why can he order your food" comment I would have said "Rich, either you marry me or you marry your sister, but I'm not cool with you being married to both of us." A guy can love his sister and support her without acting like her husband or putting her well being in front of his wife's emotional state. The only advice I can think of is do the stupid fake small talk. "Hi how was your day" "Oh good how was your day" "oh good, hows work" "good hows your work". Just pretend its a play and you are merely an actor. <strong>Then move to Australia.</strong>.. Judging by past posts (like the one from the last visit) I don't think you are being unreasonable. It's not like you are going home and going "ugh she's a bitch" and intentionally being a drama queen. Having such a huge emotional response is a major indicator of a problem, and I do think Rich needs to buck up and deal with the fact that his sister is having such a horrible emotional impact on the person he loves.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

DED!

Carameanie1824 · February 2010

Katiewhomp hit it on the head, you need to say it to Rich in plain terms - "you're either marrying me or your sister". He may not realize that this is how their behavior looks from the outside.

This is how I handled it:

FI & I went through a situation that was a combo of your troubles and Danieliza's only w/ FMIL & FFIL. In the beginning FI didn't see the issues either until I said the same thing to him. FIL's would do something that I would take negatively, I would respond and they would view it negatively so on and so forth.

Eventually I realized that I just needed to STOP - literally, stop interacting. Limit your interactions with the her & the family (even though the family isn't the issue, sorta). Once in a while let Rich go alone to a family function that you know she'll be at. Show her that you don't need to be by his side (or that you need to "intrude" on their time together). It'll be hard the first time or two, but you'll find that it will give you less stress. You won't have to interact with her, you won't be there to see him order for her (not that its OK anyhow), you won't have to make smalltalk. If you do need to interact with her say hello, thank you and goodbye. THATS IT.

Once you mastered that, then move on to playing parrot - whatever question she asks you, ask her. It could stay in parrot mode forever and thats just fine b/c you're being civil.

She may bitch and moan to Rich & co. that you're not showing interest etc. but her gripe won't hold water if all you've done the past 6 times you've seen her is say hi, thanks, bye or asked how's work?

(sorry so long)

Pirata13 · February 2010

Rach, since the first time you posted about her and how Rich defends her all the time, I think you knew you can never ever win with this sister situation. I can't even say anything more about it because this is old news and it will never change. Didn't Rich's exes commisserate with you about that whole situation??? How the sister was basically the reason those relationships end?

I'm tired of hearing how things all come back to how YOU are dealing with things and how YOU are making people feel. It's THEM, Rach, it's Rich and his sister. This does not fall on you just the same as half the other crap Rich tries to make you feel responsible for things that really aren't your problem at all.

I can only pray for you and wish you the best, because the writing has been on the wall for a long time and I have no more words of wisdom at this point.

tlv204 · February 2010

I'm super late to this and Rach I don't even know if you're around, and yes I also know that most of this has been said, but I have to say it.

At least from what you say here, Rich is not treating you well. He hides your relationship, doesn't support you in arguments like this, tries to convince you to not have important surgery to figure out what's going on, countless other "small" stories/vents you've told here, and throughout all of this, you claim he's supportive of your health issues. I have to be honest and say I don't even see that as supportive. I honestly think (and clearly I am not a therapist or doctor) that all of this stress is probably one of the major factors in your health issues. I'm not saying all of your issues are psychosomoatic, but he seems so controlling that I wouldn't be surprised if he prefers when you're not doing well because you rely on him so much.

Rich is downright pushy and adamant about weird things that you're stretching to find the good in. You've spent the last several months weakly defending his "support," and I'm not buying it.

Again, I know most of this has been said and I honestly am not trying to be a bitch and stress you out more. That is really not my intention, I know you're already going through a lot without listening to the random opinions of people on a message board, but I'm worried about you. I've never met you in my life and I am genuinely concerned about your physical and mental health. I really hope I'm being melodramatic and just reading too much into your posts, but only you know if I am or not I guess.

I hope that everything gets better -I'm sure therapy would be a good idea for several reasons. I'm really sorry you're going through this and only wish you the best.

katiewhompus · February 2010

You think I'm joking about the moving part dont you :P

Some distance from family can be a good thing. I love my in-laws to death but I'm also looking forward to living an hour away from them. Dh is always "expected" to drop his plans to go over to: do yardwork, clean gutters, put up holiday lights, mow the yard, shovel snow, take care of the pets etc. even though it's not his house.

RachNRich · February 2010

tlv--i really appreciate everything you said. In fact, I appreciate everyone that has ever spent more than two seconds reading my posts about my issues--and giving me guidance and support. That being said--I know I present a very one-sided portrait of my life, and how I view it. In fact, I may be the one at fault.

In the issue with my surgery---he was branching off of what my surgeon said. The doctor himself said there was a 99% chance the lymph node biopsy would provide a diagnosis. Rich, based on the information he had, did not want to see me go through a procedure if I didn't have to---and, I think he tried to get his point across by reaching out to my vain side---did I really want to risk my health by under going an invasive surgery that carried such a low % of diagnosis? I think he wanted me to make sure I was okay with the decision----after all, the biopsy wasn't life or death....I would have lived without it. However, cancer would still be a consideration had I chose not to have it done, as they would not have been able to rule it out completely. I can't imagine, from his point of view, how it must feel to sit back and watch the person you love go under the knife 4 times in a year...and wind up no better for it in the end, especially when so much can go wrong in even the simplest and more routine of surgeries.

As for keeping our relationship secret---well, that is a bit of a misnomer. Is it secret? No. Our friends know. Our families know. His co-workers, however, do not. And, as far as I know, they have yet to ask him what his relationship status is, and he does not offer it as random information either. If they asked, he would tell them. We agreed, when we started seeing each other, that our relationship was not something we wanted to advertise openly. I had my reasons (I didn't want my classmates at the time to think I wasn't earning my own degree) and he had his (first job, new employee, it looked unfavorable). At a certain point, there wasn't any reason to change how we had managed our relationship---there never seemed to be a reason to drop this information on people.

Please don't think I am trying to sway you one way or the other...I realize how poor some of things I've said look. I really believe my relationship is worth fighting for---for all the bad that exists, there is so much good.

I'm greatly in need of therapy--if for no other reason than to find a way to deal with my stress. Just the stress from my health is enough to drive me bonkers. I just don't know how to deal with not liking his sister---I really could use someone trained in that area to help me develop tools to deal with it.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:3c61d1a0-812d-4ad9-b6c2-6c193b565f8c">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]You think I'm joking about the moving part dont you :P Some distance from family can be a good thing. I love my in-laws to death but I'm also looking forward to living an hour away from them. Dh is always "expected" to drop his plans to go over to: do yardwork, clean gutters, put up holiday lights, mow the yard, shovel snow, take care of the pets etc. even though it's not his house.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

<div>bahah! no---you just made me laugh is all...partly because of the randomness of the location you picked for us to move to (although it would mean I'd get to visit thesun!!)</div><div>
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Kind of sad.

Re: Kind of sad.

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