Opinions about animals

katiewhompus · November 2010

The post on E got me thinking about all of the "normal' things we do to animals that can be controvercial. Things like tail docking, ear docking, debarking, declawing, wing trimming (for birds), tail amputations (for rodents, yes they do this), etc.

How do you fall in topics? I've researched a bunch and find it morbidly interesting how every single thing has "valid" (I quote because I don't think it's valid) reasons behind why it's done.

Here's my stance
Declawing - Insanely inhumane and I would only do it as a last resort (aka, cat will be euthanized without it)
Debarking - Insanely inhumane and not happening period
Body alterations (docking) - I don't know. I want to say inhumane on this one because 99% of the time it's purely cosmetic, but I also don't think (and could be wrong) it will affect the dog negatively in the long run. That being said, I would never do it to my own animal.
Wing trimming - I'm wishy washy on this. Yes birds love to fly and it's what they do, but it does keep them safer while in captivity and doesn't hurt them (as long as it's done correctly)
Tail amputations for rodents - I think these people need to go to jail.

Anysunrise · November 2010

I'd never do any of those things to my pets.

Nebb · November 2010

My cat as a child was declawed, but that was my moms choice. I have to admit it meant fighting with the cat was a lot more enjoyable than with my cat I had later in life who had her claws. Not to say I WOULD, but... eh, it is what it is. Im not so vehemently against it as most people. I think there is a stark difference between doing it as a young kitten as opposed to as an adult.

jasmineh7777 · November 2010

I disagree with all of the things you mentioned. Some are more ostensibly disgusting, but I think docking is just as bad.

My parent's neighbors docked their poor pitbull's tail by themselves. (And the sheriff won't do shiit about it). An animal is not an accessory and you should not alter parts of their body to achieve some sort of look. I don't care if it is the "look" for the breed. Stop disfiguring the breed and it won't be the look anymore.

If you are truely concerned about your cat destroying yoru furniture, then don't get a cat. It is not okay to amputate part of them because of your material shiit.

Can you tell I get a little heated about this?

Lenore2010 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:c0e8120f-fd86-4a1c-9ea8-33866e56602d">Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]The post on E got me thinking about all of the "normal' things we do to animals that can be controvercial. Things like tail docking, ear docking, debarking, declawing, wing trimming (for birds), tail amputations (for rodents, yes they do this), etc. How do you fall in topics? I've researched a bunch and find it morbidly interesting how every single thing has "valid" (I quote because I don't think it's valid) reasons behind why it's done. Here's my stance Declawing - Insanely inhumane and I would only do it as a last resort (aka, cat will be euthanized without it) Debarking - Insanely inhumane and not happening period Body alterations (docking) - I don't know. I want to say inhumane on this one because 99% of the time it's purely cosmetic, but I also don't think (and could be wrong) it will affect the dog negatively in the long run. That being said, I would never do it to my own animal. Wing trimming - I'm wishy washy on this. Yes birds love to fly and it's what they do, but it does keep them safer while in captivity and doeNosn't hurt them (as long as it's done correctly) Tail amputations for rodents - I think these people need to go to jail.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div><strong>Debarking - No</strong></div><div><strong>Declawing - NO, NO, NO</strong></div><div><strong>Wing clipping - Maybe, but I am not in love with it.</strong></div><div><strong>Ear and tail clips- No, 99% of the time. I am told though that sometimes the structure a of dog's ears makes them susceptible to infection in some breeds.</strong></div><div><strong>Tail amputation for rodents? Is that a fetish or something? NO!
</strong>
</div>

Nebb · November 2010

I have to say I dont even know what half of the things you meantioned ARE. I have just never had any pets that would be... candidates (??) for that kind of thing.

jasmineh7777 · November 2010

Why the hell would you amputate a rodent's tail? That is awful.

[Deleted User] · November 2010

I agree with you, katie, on all your points. I'd never even heard of debarking until I worked at a vet's office and it was heartbreaking when I first encountered it. I've also had to assist during declawing procedures and it is stomach-turning. The surgeries, and seeing the cats while they woke up/healed, was too much for me.

My dad's girlfriend has a boxer, but his ears and tail aren't docked. She refuses, and no longer goes to her old vet because every time she brought him in the vet wuld insist on doing the docking. I can't believe he would encourage doing that even after she repeatedly refused.

jasmineh7777 · November 2010

I kind of want to remove the voice box and any person that debarks their dog.

anna.oskar · November 2010

I'm against any alteration unless it would increase/protect the animal's quality of life.

I think declawing cats just to save your furniture in the stupidest thing I've ever heard. We didn't intend to declaw our cats but it was recommended (just the fronts) by our vet when poor Charley was hurting herself. She is prone to infections and irritation due to a wonky ear structure. The poor thing was tearing up her skin and hair whenever she had even a tiny ear problem. Now she can massage her ear as much as she wants without having all the deep scratches that hurt and the nasty antibiotic cream that apparently was torture whenever i put it on her.

cupcakesfrosting · November 2010

I'm against all of it, except the de-clawing one. I'm a little iffy on that one. I agree with Nebb, that it is different when it's a tiny kitten, than a full-blown adult.

I do have to say though, when I think about getting a pet, I look at the de-clawed, de-barked ones first. It would make my life a little easier; Although, if we had a house, I wouldn't care. I think it's just because I live in an apartment. My views will change when we get a house, I'm sure of it.

ETA: I would definitely look into a different type of nail filing for the cats. I would never DO the declawing, personally, but I weigh the options of getting one that has already been done. Does that make sense?

kimheartsscott · November 2010

Docking and cropping have their purposes. That said, a lot of people do them for cosmetic reasons which I do not agree with.

My cats are declawed but that was my parent's decision. I wouldn't do it now.

Debarking is just no.

Wing clipping I don't really know much about at all. Neither of my birds were clipped, though.

I didn't even know there was such a thing as rodent tail amputation. My rats had/have their tails and they are perfectly fine.

katiewhompus · November 2010

I had so many people who wanted to do the tail amputation because "rats are so cute but their tails make them disgusting, can I just cut off the tail?"
No, and guess what? You are now on my districts "never sell a rodent to X" list biitch.

You just need to know what you're getting into with animals. Dogs bark, cats claw, it just happens, get over it. It's not like you would have a kid and give it some surgery so it doesn't poop or something.

We once had a declawed cat in the adoption center (found that way) and his paws were so weird. He was a real sweetheart unless you started annoying him and then he'd just sink his teeth into you with no warning.

jemmini6 · November 2010

I had a cat when I lived with a roommate and he was so insistent on getting him declawed that he offered to pay for it (he wanted to play with the cat and not get scratched). I said absolutely not, nail trimmers work just fine, if it gets to be a problem (such as scratching furniture) then you can buy those little silicone nail caps that just glue on like fake nails.

My mom bought a mini schnauzer puppy and got her at 8 weeks and the breeder already had her tail docked, but not her ears. They offered my mom to have her ears docked too and my mom told them she would've preferred if they hadn't already docked her tail. They were so confussed because otherwise she wouldn't look like a 'real' schnauzer.

Anysunrise · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:0b2b653d-3b56-4f57-b5ee-ede831cec21e">Re: Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]I kind of want to remove the voice box and any person that debarks their dog.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

<div>It's not fun =(</div>

sosterhout · November 2010

Sorry I am a huge animal lover but:

Declawing - I agree ONLY if this is strickly an indoor cat.

Debarking - what is the purpose?

Body alterations (docking) - Usually done when they are less than 1 week old so there is no pain, or bleeding etc. In some breeds it is prefered.

Wing trimming - usually done for "pets" so they don't fly away

Tail amputations for rodents - i don't quite understand this either

katiewhompus · November 2010

I'll admit when I first got my rats the tails were a bit weird to get used to, but I couldn't imagine taking that away from them. It grosses out non-rat people but they would use their tail's to hug me along with balancing and just..you know, existing because they are supposed to have tails!

I once had a customer ask if I could wing trim her finch. Um..no, get out my store.

kimheartsscott · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:d8dfe458-8039-4b04-8bdc-71df5ba47e2c">Re: Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry I am a huge animal lover but: Declawing - I agree ONLY if this is strickly an indoor cat. Debarking - what is the purpose? Body alterations (docking) - <strong>Usually done when they are less than 1 week old so there is no pain</strong>, or bleeding etc. In some breeds it is prefered. Wing trimming - usually done for "pets" so they don't fly away Tail amputations for rodents - i don't quite understand this either
Posted by sosterhout[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Are you confusing "no pain" with "pain, but they are so young they don't really remember it so they don't hold it against you" ??

</div><div>
</div><div>Another question: dew claw removal. Annnnd go.</div>

katiewhompus · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:4d18bd74-f32b-4b21-9510-fc6ad3cf0ff2">Re: Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Opinions about animals : Are you confusing "no pain" with "pain, but they are so young they don't really remember it so they don't hold it against you" ?? Another question: dew claw removal. Annnnd go.
Posted by kimheartsscott[/QUOTE]

Yeah, pretty sure they can feel pain when they are young...

Here's my problem with declawing indoor cats. At any point they have the ability to become outdoor cats even if the owner has the best of intentions. If they somehow get out of the house they now are even more screwed because along with no experience with danger, they have no way to defend themselves.
I also think most (not all, but most I've dealt with) owners who are willing to declaw their cat are also not willing to deal with other behavior issues, so chances are the cat will be put in a shelter or on the streets eventually. I know that's a big leap, but that's just in my experience.

Lenore2010 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:d8dfe458-8039-4b04-8bdc-71df5ba47e2c">Re: Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry I am a huge animal lover but: <strong>Declawing - I agree ONLY if this is strickly an indoor cat.</strong> Debarking - what is the purpose? Body alterations (docking) - Usually done when they are less than 1 week old so there is no pain, or bleeding etc. In some breeds it is prefered. Wing trimming - usually done for "pets" so they don't fly away Tail amputations for rodents - i don't quite understand this either
Posted by sosterhout[/QUOTE]

<div>It is not right for indoor cats, either. Claws are part of what they use to walk, and not having them can cause joing pain and issues later in their lives. Many vets are refusing to do it now.</div>

saxy414 · November 2010

My two cats are declawed, but I wouldn't do it again. All my cats growing up were declawed, so I just figured it was what you did to indoor cats. My one kitty has scars on her paws, and it makes me feel terrible that it was my choice to do it to her. And I think karma is coming for me--they STILL find ways to tear up the furniture, either by kicking with their back paws or biting. So, I lose.

I think de-barking is ridiculous and horrible.

Docking for cosmetic purposes is cruel, but if it needs to be done for the animal's welfare I don't have a problem with it. I know it's somewhat different from a dog, but I grew up on a farm and we had to dock all the lamb's tails because otherwise all kinds of gross stuff would get stuck in them and they'd get infections.

And cutting off a rat's tail? Huh? That's crazy talk. I'm glad that lady wound up on your "no rodents, biitch" list.

katiewhompus · November 2010

We had a lot of biitch lists. It was pretty awesome. I once had a manager who wouldn't allow me refuse the sale of chinchilla's to a certain customer after he returned 2 dead ones (they had lived in the store for over 4 months and were perfectly healthy) and told me I had to continue selling the customer a chinchilla. Hm...strangely no chinchilla's were available for 2 years, imagine that.

NatesGirl16 · November 2010

I had never realized that declawing was so bad. When we had our family cat declawed, she was limping and it hurt her. Eventually, she was fine, but my mom regretted doing it.

I couldn't even consider debarking. It seems crazy and cruel.

katiewhompus · November 2010

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about dew claws and haven't done enough research. I do know that it's a huge problem with dogs getting groomed if they have long fur and the owner doesn't tell the groomer they exist. I've also heard one story where a puppy got his dew claw stuck in a blanket and ended up severly hurting himself because it twisted the claw around so much it almost ripped it off.

NatesGirl16 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:d19c9cad-ab4f-43be-a34c-c8f20e0d07da">Re: Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm honestly not sure how I feel about dew claws and haven't done enough research. I do know that it's a huge problem with dogs getting groomed if they have long fur and the owner doesn't tell the groomer they exist. I've also heard one story where a puppy got his dew claw stuck in a blanket and ended up severly hurting himself because it twisted the claw around so much it almost ripped it off.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]
My dog has ripped his dew claw off twice. We keep his nails short, but he always snags it. My vet said it just happens to some dogs (which sucks because it hurts him and it's expensive to get anitbiotics to put him on), so I'd consider having them removed as a puppy if we had him then.

Chi_Chi · November 2010

My pits were born with their ears and tails and they will die with them. I specifically name my pits because I know they are the most popular for ear/tail docking. And docking was done to dogs (pits) so when they fought them, they would result in less injuries without them and so other dogs wouldn't have an advantage by having something to grab on.

I don't own animals that the rest apply to, but I wouldn't do it.

kimheartsscott · November 2010

Cindy has her dew claws. We trim them and keep them healthy, but she is also a very very calm dog so she doesn't really have the chance to accidentally catch them on something. They make me nervous though.

katiewhompus · November 2010

I love pits and dobermans who haven't been docked. They look so much more sweet and cuddly.

amber2123 · November 2010

I wouldn't do any of these things without reason. The one example I can think of is my friend's dog is some pure bread that is HUGE. Like standing to all fours, his head is past FBIL's waste, and he's 6'4''. Now with this particular bread, the ears have to be docked because of the way the sweat in the ears collect when their left natural. It can cause infections and hearing loss and stuff. That's the ONLY way I would do anything like that.

Chi_Chi · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:dbc65bf8-7f7c-4839-9fdc-10f291cbb6ea">Re: Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]I love pits and dobermans who haven't been docked. They look so much more sweet and cuddly.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]
Exactly. And the sad thing is, is that's why most people dock their ears. They want to make their heads "look bigger" and they want them to look intimidating. I don't want people to be terrified of my dogs upon seeing them. There is already a severe misconception of pits, why add to the negativity?

ETC: spelling.

katiewhompus · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_opinions-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:5033b11b-9ab1-45ad-baa5-511d85fb9e4bPost:f5c18991-66ab-4e1b-8b25-6a6e5afbe58d">Re: Opinions about animals</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Opinions about animals : Exactly. And the sad thing is, is that's why most people dock their ears. They want to make their heads "look bigger" and they want them to look intimidating. I don't want people to be terrified of my dogs upon seeing them. There is already a severe misconception of pits, why add to the negativity? ETC: spelling.
Posted by Chi_Chi[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I like my dogs to look cute and cuddly, then the bad people won't be aware that they are about to be taken down by a ferocious monster ;)

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