Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here

maratea · March 2012

Dudes. http://www.kpho.com/story/17093917/arizona-senate-approves-bill-on-wrongful-births

So, this is essentially saying doctors can't get in trouble for not disclosing any prenatal problems because they don't want the mom to have an abortion if the child could be born with a disability or defect. There are 9 other states that have similar 'wrongful birth' bills. So this would include ectopic pregnancies.

I really wish these stupid fucking lawmakers would make a goddamn decision. First, it's all the "you have to view the ultrasound before an abortion, got to see every little thing up there', now it's "I'm not going to tell you what's going on it there because you might not like what I have to say". WELL WHICH IS IT?

annakb8 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:9e39210d-4883-4979-8549-4414a1fdbd89">Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]Dudes. <a href="http://www.kpho.com/story/17093917/arizona-senate-approves-bill-on-wrongful-births" rel="nofollow">http://www.kpho.com/story/17093917/arizona-senate-approves-bill-on-wrongful-births</a> So, this is essentially saying doctors can't get in trouble for not disclosing any prenatal problems because they don't want the mom to have an abortion if the child could be born with a disability or defect. There are 9 other states that have similar 'wrongful birth' bills. So this would include ectopic pregnancies. I really wish these stupid fucking lawmakers would make a goddamn decision.<strong> First, it's all the "you have to view the ultrasound before an abortion, got to see every little thing up there', now it's "I'm not going to tell you what's going on it there because you might not like what I have to say". WELL WHICH IS IT?</strong>
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>You're only allowed to have facts after you make the decision, in which case they are irrelevant. Because that makes sense. </div><div>
</div><div>This really pisses me off. I don't know why it would EVER be acceptable to withhold someones own medical information from them.

</div>

raynes · March 2012

See, I don't see how they could possibly NOT tell you you've got an ectopic pregnancy, as they are, y'know, life threatening to the mother.

Andplusalso, wtf happened to freedom of choice? If YOU choose to do prenatal testing it's YOUR choice as to what YOU (and your partner) do with the information. It would royally piss me off to have testing done and then have the doc say, "nah, I'm not going to tell you the results because I don't want YOU to make the decision to abort. Maybe".

maratea · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:74198bd3-86fd-4bad-a39e-17bdd3c8b711">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : This really pisses me off. I don't know why it would EVER be acceptable to withhold someones own medical information from them.
Posted by annakb8[/QUOTE]
Especially if they could die from it.

I really think doctors need to leave their personal opinions at the door and treat their patients in a manner that is best for the patient, not the doctor's conscience.

annakb8 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:e5592341-63b0-41ac-8d49-b44d7fb2ab31">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : Especially if they could die from it. I really think doctors need to leave their personal opinions at the door and treat their patients in a manner that is best for the patient, not the doctor's conscience.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I agree. And I know some doctors have very strong pro-life views that might make that hard, so I would suggest that maybe they specialize in something besides obsterics or gynecology.

</div>

lbarr088 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:74198bd3-86fd-4bad-a39e-17bdd3c8b711">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : You're only allowed to have facts after you make the decision, in which case they are irrelevant. Because that makes sense. This really pisses me off.<strong> I don't know why it would EVER be acceptable to withhold someones own medical information from them. </strong>
Posted by annakb8[/QUOTE]

<div>I just did all of this training involving research and humans and patient care etc, and witholding any medical information is very much NOT allowed. I don't see how the WHO or anyone could get on board with this, seeing as they have a bajillion references stating that this is against policy.</div>

NicoleSahara · March 2012

I don't think the bill is saying the doctor can keep a secret from the patient, I think it's more like if the patient didn't request to have a test done for down syndrome, for example, and then the baby is born with down syndrome, the patient can't sue the doctor for it. I didn't see where I could read the bill to see if that's the case, but if that's what it is then I agree with it.

Y I Oughta · March 2012

So if the doctor tells someone everything is ok they will assume it is and could potentially have a child with severe disorders/disabilities. If the doctor won't tell them anything they will get a second opinion. Or if they are stupid they might jump to the wrong conclusion and abort a healthy baby. This is a shitton of ridiculous

lbarr088 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:dd1cbe9a-4f7b-462e-b2a2-c01348731125">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think the bill is saying the doctor can keep a secret from the patient,<strong> I think it's more like if the patient didn't request to have a test done for down syndrome, for example, and then the baby is born with down syndrome, the patient can't sue the doctor for it.</strong> I didn't see where I could read the bill to see if that's the case, but if that's what it is then I agree with it.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

<div>This makes more sense to me. The other option is just completely unethical.</div>

AllAboutTheBenjamin · March 2012

This is completely enraging. I can't believe I live in a world where lawmakers come between me and my doctor in my own private medical decisions. Wtf.

maratea · March 2012

The Politics and Current Events board on TN is having a good thread about this. After reading the actual bill it doesn't sound as bad as the article makes it, but here is a good quote from a poster on TN:
"The law does NOT prohibit suits against doctors where the conduct was intentionally or grossly negligent. It does, however, prohibit suits where a doctor has been negligent.

Basically, the law says that doctors can be held liable for intentionally deviating from the reasonable standard of care, or for negligently deviating from the standard of care of such an egregious way as to be considered "gross." But it lets doctors off the hook for just being negligent."

Here is the text of the actual bill:

Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

2 Section 1. Title 12, chapter 6, article 12, Arizona Revised Statutes,

3 is amended by adding section 12-718, to read:

4 12-718. Civil liability; wrongful birth, life or conception

5 claims; application

6 A. A PERSON IS NOT LIABLE FOR DAMAGES IN ANY CIVIL ACTION FOR WRONGFUL

7 BIRTH BASED ON A CLAIM THAT, BUT FOR AN ACT OR OMISSION OF THE DEFENDANT, A

8 CHILD OR CHILDREN WOULD NOT OR SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BORN.

9 B. A PERSON IS NOT LIABLE FOR DAMAGES IN ANY CIVIL ACTION FOR WRONGFUL

10 LIFE BASED ON A CLAIM THAT, BUT FOR AN ACT OR OMISSION OF THE DEFENDANT, THE

11 PERSON BRINGING THE ACTION WOULD NOT OR SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BORN.

12 C. THIS SECTION APPLIES TO ANY CLAIM REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE CHILD

13 IS BORN HEALTHY OR WITH A BIRTH DEFECT OR OTHER ADVERSE MEDICAL CONDITION.

14 D. THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY CIVIL ACTION FOR DAMAGES FOR AN

15 INTENTIONAL OR GROSSLY NEGLIGENT ACT OR OMISSION, INCLUDING AN ACT OR

16 OMISSION THAT VIOLATES A CRIMINAL LAW.

annakb8 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:dd1cbe9a-4f7b-462e-b2a2-c01348731125">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think the bill is saying the doctor can keep a secret from the patient, I think it's more like if the patient didn't request to have a test done for down syndrome, for example, and then the baby is born with down syndrome, the patient can't sue the doctor for it. I didn't see where I could read the bill to see if that's the case, but if that's what it is then I agree with it.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I don't think it's just that. I think that if the doctor knows the baby has downs syndrom (or whatever else) they can not tell the mother because they think this information might lead her to have an abortion. I think that even if she doesn't ask "hey doc, do you have any reason to believe my baby has downs syndrome?" the doctor should still tell her if this information is available to her. </div><div>
</div><div>I hate how litigious we are as a society, and it sucks if people were suing doctors wrongfully after they had babies with problems, but it seems like making it ok to keep secrets from the pregnant mother is not really an excellent way to fix this problem.

</div>

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:05053470-ef29-4a8f-bd4b-9848cf16147b">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : I don't think it's just that. <strong>I think that if the doctor knows the baby has downs syndrom (or whatever else) they can not tell the mother because they think this information might lead her to have an abortion.</strong> I think that even if she doesn't ask "hey doc, do you have any reason to believe my baby has downs syndrome?" the doctor should still tell her if this information is available to her. I hate how litigious we are as a society, and it sucks if people were suing doctors wrongfully after they had babies with problems, but it seems like making it ok to keep secrets from the pregnant mother is not really an excellent way to fix this problem.
Posted by annakb8[/QUOTE]

Where in the bill does it say that? It's not like the doctor can look at the fetus and know if they baby will have down syndrome, the patient can choose to get an amniocentisis and find out if they want to, and nowhere does it say the doctor wouldn't share those results if the patient chose to do that. That's just ridiculous.

LP11509 · March 2012

The bill doesn't say that doctors can withhold medical information. It says that if the doctor fails to make a diagnosis prior to birth for whatever reason, the patient can't sue after the baby is born.

http://www.plattner-verderame.com/blog/2012/02/bill-would-eliminate-arizona-wrongful-birth-claims-against-physicians.html

ETA: To clarify, patients can't sue if the doctor can't (or fails to) diagnose, say, down syndrome due to the patient declining to test, or the test being inaccurate, etc. But if they DO make the diagnosis, they do have to tell the patient, as far as I understand.

maratea · March 2012

I'm trying to understand the difference between gross negligence and negligence, but I'm having a hard time. I've read a few explanations. We need a lawyer up in here stat.

annakb8 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:ee1296ea-701d-4410-af4f-b5f5b94623a5">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : Where in the bill does it say that? It's not like the doctor can look at the fetus and know if they baby will have down syndrome, the patient can choose to get an amniocentisis and find out if they want to, and nowhere does it say the doctor wouldn't share those results if the patient chose to do that. That's just ridiculous.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I think DS was a bad example because as far as I know if can only be detected in an amnio, but I think there are other things that could be detected by routine pre-natal procedures and I think this bill lets doctors off the hook in regards to informing their patients about them.

</div>

jennamarie10 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:438f71c8-0ac7-4e13-b515-c0c0591e2311">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm trying to understand the difference between gross negligence and negligence, but I'm having a hard time. I've read a few explanations. We need a lawyer up in here stat.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

I think the difference is negligence is unintentional and gross negligence is intentional?

maratea · March 2012

I hate to keep quoting people from TN, but I think this one is important:

"Also, I'm listening to the sponsor of the bill talk about it (AZ is awesome about offering videos from the floor), and the woman is LYING about it, or else she's an idiot. Negligence does NOT equal gross negligence and does NOT equal willful or intentional withholding of information. And she's trying to equate all three.

Ooooooooh! And, yes, there we go. She just said the bill was about keeping society from "undermin[ing] the value of children that are born with disabilities". THAT'S the part that I think led people to jump on the "this bill is anti-choice'"

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:3b2ff404-0406-40c1-953b-0fe326420e28">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : I think DS was a bad example because as far as I know if can only be detected in an amnio, but I think there are other things that could be detected by routine pre-natal procedures and I think this bill lets doctors off the hook in regards to informing their patients about them.
Posted by annakb8[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I bet some of these doctors are even pro-choice. Babies are born with disabilities that doctors might not be able to anticipate. That's no one's fault, and this protects the doctor from getting sued in that situation.

LP11509 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:2948cfe8-4e72-49a7-a73d-d3bb9d99ba49">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]It sounds like the bill is written in a way that allows for too loose of an interpretation which could allow for doctors to maybe hide behind it to withold info. Does that make sense?
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

<div>That's a valid point and could happen, though I hope it doesn't. I just wanted to point out that, as far as I can tell, the bill does not specifically give the right to doctors to intentionally withhold information. </div>

annakb8 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:cc34f91a-1cdf-44dd-b29c-48ebcd69e9d9">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : I disagree. I bet some of these doctors are even pro-choice. Babies are born with disabilities that doctors might not be able to anticipate. That's no one's fault, and this protects the doctor from getting sued in that situation.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

<div>I get that and agree. However, my understanding of this bill is that it makes it OK for the doctor to not share information about disabilities they can and do anticipate. That is fucked up. It makes it ok for the doctor to not share any information he gleans from the prenatal care. I think that a mother (or anyone really) should be entitled to any information a doctor has regarding her health. </div>

Girlie1030 · March 2012

Here's the fact sheet from it. http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/50leg/2r/summary/s.1359hmlr.doc.htm&Session_ID=107

september's bride · March 2012

There's been a lot of talk like this in and around the medical community lately. They're talking about not revealing gender until late-stage pregnancy to try and avoid abortions for cultural reasons where a couple might not want a female child. I know it's not the same thing as what we're talking about in here right now, but it's just one more example of the definite increase in the red tape that's being associated with people's personal health information, and I'm not a fan at all.

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:e3bcd759-fe5c-4dae-8b8f-da04ae049a08">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : I get that and agree. However, my understanding of this bill is that it makes it OK for the doctor to not share information about disabilities they can and do anticipate. That is fucked up. It makes it ok for the doctor to not share any information he gleans from the prenatal care. I think that a mother (or anyone really) should be entitled to any information a doctor has regarding her health.
Posted by annakb8[/QUOTE]

But why do you think that? It doesn't say that at all. From what girly posted:
"Stipulates a person is not liable for damages in a civil action for wrongful birth, wrongful life, or outlined expenses within a wrongful pregnancy or conception tort based on the claim a child should not or would not have been born, <strong>except for the defendant's action or omission.</strong>" It specifically says that what you're saying would be the doctors fault and he/she could be held responsible.

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:bcee8905-d4ef-4249-9c3b-fd7adf58bc72">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]Nicole, that's how I read it, too. If they would just write this shiit in plain fuucking English, it would be a lot easier to understand. Basically, the way I read was -- if the baby born with said birth defect would have been born that way regardless of what the doctor said or did, then he's not liable. However, if the doc could have prevented said brith defect, then he could be held liable.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

I was just talking with my dad about a couple who is suing the doctor because they didn't know their baby had MS or cerebral palsy (I can't remember exactly) when they never requested a test to check for it. I think this bill protects the doctor from a situation like that.

LP11509 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:8ad3d402-7e38-41f4-80cd-3995759f5fbe">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : I was just talking with my dad about a couple who is suing the doctor because they didn't know their baby had MS or cerebral palsy (I can't remember exactly) when they never requested a test to check for it. I think this bill protects the doctor from a situation like that.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

<div>That's my understanding of it, too. And in that case, I do agree with the bill, especially in situations where the doctor may have encouraged testing and the patient declined. </div>

annakb8 · March 2012

I went back and read the original article I read on this and it was pretty biased and got me worked up. I still think it's weird to pass a law that makes it ok to be a little big negligent, but not grossley negligent. IDK. I wish lawmakers would cool it with the women's health stuff for a few weeks so I could have a break from being enraged.

cheeseandrice · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:3b2ff404-0406-40c1-953b-0fe326420e28">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : I think DS was a bad example because as far as I know if can only be detected in an amnio, but I think there are other things that could be detected by routine pre-natal procedures and I think this bill lets doctors off the hook in regards to informing their patients about them.
Posted by annakb8[/QUOTE]

Your odds can be determined by an u/s and bw. It's the NT test (I just had mine last week.) It's not an actual diagnosis, but it can help people choose whether to proceed with more invasive procedures, like amniocentesis.

I only know this stuff from my bump board. But there are a lot of fatal defects that can be detected at a routine u/s. Ones that will often prompt a couple to consider termination (even if they NEVER thought they would.) I would be pissed if my doctor withheld that information from me. It's completely immoral, in my opinion.

That being said, I think this bill was probably started as a way to prevent people from suing a doctor when they didn't know there was a risk. (i.e. baby is born with a defect that doctors genuinely missed during pregnancy.) But the fact that it could allow doctors to intentionally withhold information is disgusting (ETA: if that's how it's interpreted? I really don't fully understand exactly what it's allowing.)

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:6b1cf5e1-8bf2-4287-9a42-04e24acdd56a">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : Your odds can be determined by an u/s and bw. It's the NT test (I just had mine last week.) It's not an actual diagnosis, but it can help people choose whether to proceed with more invasive procedures, like amniocentesis. I only know this stuff from my bump board. But there are a lot of fatal defects that can be detected at a routine u/s. Ones that will often prompt a couple to consider termination (even if they NEVER thought they would.) I would be pissed if my doctor withheld that information from me. It's completely immoral, in my opinion. That being said, I think this bill was probably started as a way to prevent people from suing a doctor when they didn't know there was a risk. (i.e. baby is born with a defect that doctors genuinely missed during pregnancy.) <strong>But the fact that it could allow doctors to intentionally withhold information is disgusting</strong> (ETA: if that's how it's interpreted? I really don't fully understand exactly what it's allowing.)
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

I think it could be easily shown if a doctor did intentionally withhold information, and since it specifically mentions that in that situation the doctor would still be held responsible I don't think that's going to happen. I think like Anna mentioned, the article was very biased and wanted to get people worked up about it so the writer skewed the intent of the bill.

cheeseandrice · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_pregnant-people-and-everyone-else-come-here?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c064db7f-d241-4292-b214-db89f69faa2fPost:a88449c5-97f3-4dcf-b5a2-4e08b6804f01">Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pregnant people (and everyone else) come here : Do we seriously need another law that says this? How is this different from current law?
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

Apparently we did, because common sense is lacking in this country.

If I ever wanted to be a doctor, lawsuits would be enough to convince me otherwise.

maratea · March 2012

I think what needs to happen is everybody needs to stop telling ME what I can do with MY body. Even if there is a fetus involved, it's still MY fetus, not the lawmakers.

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