Question for teachers

shannonalise · June 2010

Good morning!

The job front is still bleak. However, there are positions available for teachers in my district in "Turn Around Schools" but I'm a bit wary about it because I don't know what to expect. I do love a challenge, but I'm just not sure...

Do you have experience in a turn around school, or know of someone who does? Any advice would be appreciated!! Thank you very much.

Edit: All of the schools are in pretty rough neighborhoods, which DH isn't thrilled about. I have more info if you'd like it.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

I don't know what a turnaround school is, but my mom worked for a middle school in a very rough neighborhood. The kids there were tough, always leading shool riots, bringing drugs to school, and getting into fights. One threatened her with a gun, another said he was going to beat her up and almost hit her but fortunately another student stepped in (my mom is pretty small so it doesn't take much to be bigger than her). They went through 5 principals while she was there and it only got worse.

I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's just something you have to consider. But I think it also depends on the scpecific school and area. Like I said, I don't know what a turnaround school is so if they have certain programs designed to improve the system then that's totally different from my mom's school.

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:45839391-4351-4b29-9f67-9d12c9c0e8dc">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't know what a turnaround school is, but my mom worked for a middle school in a very rough neighborhood. The kids there were tough, always leading shool riots, bringing drugs to school, and getting into fights. One threatened her with a gun, another said he was going to beat her up and almost hit her but fortunately another student stepped in (my mom is pretty small so it doesn't take much to be bigger than her). They went through 5 principals while she was there and it only got worse. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's just something you have to consider. But I think it also depends on the scpecific school and area. Like I said, I don't know what a turnaround school is so if they have certain programs designed to improve the system then that's totally different from my mom's school.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

I should have explained that - my bad. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /> A turn around school is one that has failed so many years in a row and did not make AYP, so it was basically cleaned out. Every staff member (from principal to janitor) was fired and each member is being replaced.

I should also explain that these are all elementary schools.

The stories you shared about your mom are what I'm a bit worried about. And lack of parental involvement, or even parental negativity. Every one of these schools is Title I, with at least 93% of the student body receiving free or reduced lunch. It's not always the case that these specific demographics go hand in hand with uncooperative parents, but it seems to be pretty common in my experience. It's amazing what an involved parent can do for a child, or even the entire school. It's so important.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

Yeah that was a big thing with my mom, the parents just didn't care and it's so hard to convince them to even come in for a conference.

I have an issue with the turnaround school thing. I think it's a little harsh to fire every single staff member because the school is failing. LIke you said, most of the time parents aren't involved, which means the kids don't care, and if the kids don't care if doesn't matter a single bit how hard the teacher tries. My mom has a class where no matter what she does, they refuse to do homework and the parents just shrug and let it go. She refuses to pass them, but failing them makes her look bad. it's a lose-lose all around.

How are the schools supposed to get better if the parents or kids don't change? A new staff won't change if the general outlook doesn't. However, I think it's easier to reach elementary-age kids opposed to middle school. Plus you can bribe them with candy.

J&K10910 · June 2010

I think an elementary setting would be better than a middle or high school. Granted, you'll still have the lack of parental involvement, but you'll have less (notice I say less, not none) drugs, weapons, etc. Plus, you'll have a chance to really make a difference early in the kids' lives when it matters the most.

zippityb · June 2010

If it was between a Turnaround School and not having a job, I'd choose Turnaround School. Maybe you could get all inspiring like in Dead Poets Society minus the suicide.

TheSaltyPeanut · June 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFK6H_CcuX8

No?

kelly&wayne · June 2010

You're right, there will be parents who are not involved and often neglectful to their children, but that is when your students will need you even more. I have been teaching for 13 years this September and have spent half my career in underpriveleged communities. Don't get me wrong, it is VERY difficult at times, but the rewards are far greater than you can possibly imagine. These stiudents need you as so much more than just their teacher. Sure, the math and reading we teach on a daily basis is crucial to their life skills, but when you're working in a tough school, the students need so much more than reading, writing and arithmetic. Summer vacation is coming up and even though we're all excited about 2 months off we worry about our students during those 2 months. I've taught at both ends of the socio-economic spectrum and would choose the more needy kids any day of the week. It's a challenge and your personality has to be suited to it, but if you look at it as a positive challenge and a chance to REALLY make a difference in students' lives then take it on with an open mind and fall in love with your students the way we all have at my school. Good luck!!

SarahPLiz · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:3716d234-3e79-40cf-afff-8c846fba3586">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]If it was between a Turnaround School and not having a job, I'd choose Turnaround School. Maybe you could get all inspiring like in Dead Poets Society minus the suicide.
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

I was thinking more of a Michelle Pfeiffer and Coolio thing.. Gangsta's Paradise, or whatever that movie was called.

J&K10910 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:3716d234-3e79-40cf-afff-8c846fba3586">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]If it was between a Turnaround School and not having a job, I'd choose Turnaround School. Maybe you could get all inspiring like in Dead Poets Society minus the suicide.
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

This this this, a thousand times this. So you work there for a year, get something to put on your resume, and apply to other schools if you really hate it. Or, you discover that you really love it.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

I agree, it's better than no job at all. And you never know, a fresh start might even be better because everyone will be new and you could bounce ideas off each other on how to introduce your own teaching style in order to improve the school.

I am curious though, if a school is classified as a turnaround school, do even teachers with tenure get fired? I thought they weren't allowed to be fired, but does it change with that status? I'm just wondering how it works.

SarahPLiz · June 2010

On a serious note, I am not a teacher, but my mom and quite a few of my friends are.
I know that the turnaround schools here in Austin have had some success. Just the talk of shutting down the school before the reopening got parents out in droves. These were people who had never stepped foot in the school, but now were paying attention because they were worried their kids would get shipped out to a new school district.

Here, they replace all of the administration and at least 60% of the faculty and staff. They have turned some of the schools into magnet campuses, and have made some really awesome pedagogical and community involvement changes that seem to be successful.

I think that if you can be part of such drastic change in teh way a community views education, and how students learn, that would be great. However, if they are just changing the employees and not the methods, programs, and curriculum, then it might not be worth it.

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:c15e9bc5-51d1-4182-8245-06f7588cb8f7">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah that was a big thing with my mom, the parents just didn't care and it's so hard to convince them to even come in for a conference. I have an issue with the turnaround school thing. I think it's a little harsh to fire every single staff member because the school is failing. LIke you said, most of the time parents aren't involved, which means the kids don't care, and if the kids don't care if doesn't matter a single bit how hard the teacher tries. My mom has a class where no matter what she does, they refuse to do homework and the parents just shrug and let it go. She refuses to pass them, but failing them makes her look bad. it's a lose-lose all around. How are the schools supposed to get better if the parents or kids don't change? A new staff won't change if the general outlook doesn't. However, I think it's easier to reach elementary-age kids opposed to middle school. Plus you can bribe them with candy.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

Absolutely! I couldn't agree with this more. Students are just not held to standards of responsibility. The blame is passed around and always ends up on the teacher.

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:f417a1c2-41d8-4961-b792-2d44e8c8ee0c">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]I think an elementary setting would be better than a middle or high school. Granted, you'll still have the lack of parental involvement, but you'll have less (notice I say less, not none) drugs, weapons, etc. Plus, you'll have a chance to really make a difference early in the kids' lives when it matters the most.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I agree with this. And I know that these kids need good teachers, which is something else that draws me.

missy68 · June 2010

Yes, you can still be fired, even with tenure. It just takes more documentation of wrongdoing. In the first 3 years, it doesn't take much at all.

I suspect that in a turnaround school, you will be required to complete a LOT of paperwork to document what you are doing and will have little control over what discipline plan you use, what curriculum you use, and will have state observers coming in frequently. There will be few "free" days where you can just show a movie in the afternoon.

My school was just above that, and they were making some changes before I left - it wasn't a fun place to be anymore and it was mentally and physically draining. I could handle the parents not caring, it was the principal over my shoulder that just about drove me insane.

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:3716d234-3e79-40cf-afff-8c846fba3586">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]If it was between a Turnaround School and not having a job, I'd choose Turnaround School. Maybe you could get all inspiring like in Dead Poets Society minus the suicide.
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

It's all fun until someone kills themselves.

No, but really, how did it go? What have your experiences been?

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:6c84da26-e666-4f44-a67f-dbf633d411da">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFK6H_CcuX8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFK6H_CcuX8</a> No? :)
Posted by TheSaltyPeanut[/QUOTE]

YES!! <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" />

ndnikki06 · June 2010

I posted on the other board.

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:28870baf-a59c-45bd-9ddf-72aa16430204">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]You're right, there will be parents who are not involved and often neglectful to their children, but that is when your students will need you even more. I have been teaching for 13 years this September and have spent half my career in underpriveleged communities. Don't get me wrong, it is VERY difficult at times, but the rewards are far greater than you can possibly imagine. These stiudents need you as so much more than just their teacher. Sure, the math and reading we teach on a daily basis is crucial to their life skills, but when you're working in a tough school, the students need so much more than reading, writing and arithmetic. Summer vacation is coming up and even though we're all excited about 2 months off we worry about our students during those 2 months. I've taught at both ends of the socio-economic spectrum and would choose the more needy kids any day of the week. It's a challenge and your personality has to be suited to it, but if you look at it as a positive challenge and a chance to REALLY make a difference in students' lives then take it on with an open mind and fall in love with your students the way we all have at my school. Good luck!!
Posted by kelly&wayne[/QUOTE]

What great advice! I can see this, completely. It warms my heart. Thank you! You've definitely given me a lot to think about.

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:3716d234-3e79-40cf-afff-8c846fba3586">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]If it was between a Turnaround School and not having a job, I'd choose Turnaround School. Maybe you could get all inspiring like in Dead Poets Society minus the suicide.
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

I totally read this as "It was between a Turnaround school and not having a job.."

NM. :)

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:534fac16-099b-4117-acfb-e86bfe9f1532">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree, it's better than no job at all. And you never know, a fresh start might even be better because everyone will be new and you could bounce ideas off each other on how to introduce your own teaching style in order to improve the school. I am curious though, if a school is classified as a turnaround school, do even teachers with tenure get fired? I thought they weren't allowed to be fired, but does it change with that status? I'm just wondering how it works.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure that being a teacher in a repeatedly failing/failing to make AYP school gives cause to release even tenured teachers. That's what I've always heard, but I'm not positive. Kind of crazy...

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:47c1fc91-2276-4a9a-a287-6f6aa4ffa2e1">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Question for teachers : This this this, a thousand times this. So you work there for a year, get something to put on your resume, and apply to other schools if you really hate it. Or, you discover that you really love it.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Very, very true! I'm obviously leaning more toward it, but wanted to see if there were any reasons to avoid it - I'm glad I haven't really found them yet. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:aead466d-77b0-49fa-8718-43edde685e79">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]On a serious note, I am not a teacher, but my mom and quite a few of my friends are. I know that the turnaround schools here in Austin have had some success. Just the talk of shutting down the school before the reopening got parents out in droves. These were people who had never stepped foot in the school, but now were paying attention because they were worried their kids would get shipped out to a new school district. Here, they replace all of the administration and at least 60% of the faculty and staff. They have turned some of the schools into magnet campuses, and have made some really awesome pedagogical and community involvement changes that seem to be successful. I think that if you can be part of such drastic change in teh way a community views education, and how students learn, that would be great. However, if they are just changing the employees and not the methods, programs, and curriculum, then it might not be worth it.
Posted by SarahPLiz[/QUOTE]

Very interesting! And I agree with everything else you said. Very enlightening!

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:8df3b50a-4a19-4809-9472-ee70073e33c4">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, you can still be fired, even with tenure. It just takes more documentation of wrongdoing. In the first 3 years, it doesn't take much at all. I suspect that in a turnaround school, you will be required to complete a LOT of paperwork to document what you are doing and will have little control over what discipline plan you use, what curriculum you use, and will have state observers coming in frequently. There will be few "free" days where you can just show a movie in the afternoon. My school was just above that, and they were making some changes before I left - it wasn't a fun place to be anymore and it was mentally and physically draining. I could handle the parents not caring, it was the principal over my shoulder that just about drove me insane.
Posted by missy68[/QUOTE]

Jeeze!

jamiefour · June 2010

My first job out of college and for 7 years following was in the South Bronx of NYC. When I started the school was just going through this kind of turn around. (it was a failing school for 3 years) My first class was 6th grade. The students were ages 11-15 and all they gave me was a box of chalk and an eraser. No curriculum, books or anything else. I had student taught in the neighborhood so I wasn't that surprised by this. I used every resource I could scrape up to get some books and materials, going to garage sales and other donations. I got my classroom up and running and it was the best experience of my life. I stayed in this school for 7 years and it got better as the time went on. I fell in love with the students and the community and worked as hard as I could to get these students on track. Year after year I would make progress and my last year there my students scored the highest on the state tests in my whole network. (about 100 schools) Sadly I had to leave this year (I was commuting 2 hours each way) and I am now in a different school, also pretty inner city. I stepped up to the challenge that was given to me and put the students on my back and taught them the best I knew how everyday.
It will be a challenge. You probably won't have the things you are accustomed to but if you put the effort in the kids will learn. As far as discipline a lot of it will fall on you. There maybe little or no parent support or principal support but if you are willing to deal with this all yourself, you will have success. I can't write everything I want to say right now without turning this into a novel but PM me if you have any questions. I lived this situation and succeeded. (And trust me I grew up in the burbs) Please PM with questions you have I will be more then happy to answer them and good luck.
I hope this makes sense!

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:a514c047-3423-4bd7-8411-663fd5f34650">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]My first job out of college and for 7 years following was in the South Bronx of NYC. When I started the school was just going through this kind of turn around. (it was a failing school for 3 years) My first class was 6th grade. The students were ages 11-15 and all they gave me was a box of chalk and an eraser. No curriculum, books or anything else. I had student taught in the neighborhood so I wasn't that surprised by this. I used every resource I could scrape up to get some books and materials, going to garage sales and other donations. I got my classroom up and running and it was the best experience of my life. I stayed in this school for 7 years and it got better as the time went on. I fell in love with the students and the community and worked as hard as I could to get these students on track. Year after year I would make progress and my last year there my students scored the highest on the state tests in my whole network. (about 100 schools) Sadly I had to leave this year (I was commuting 2 hours each way) and I am now in a different school, also pretty inner city. I stepped up to the challenge that was given to me and put the students on my back and taught them the best I knew how everyday. It will be a challenge. You probably won't have the things you are accustomed to but if you put the effort in the kids will learn. As far as discipline a lot of it will fall on you. There maybe little or no parent support or principal support but if you are willing to deal with this all yourself, you will have success. I can't write everything I want to say right now without turning this into a novel but PM me if you have any questions. I lived this situation and succeeded. (And trust me I grew up in the burbs) Please PM with questions you have I will be more then happy to answer them and good luck. I hope this makes sense!
Posted by jamiefour[/QUOTE]

Jamie, thank you so much for taking the time to write everything you did. I appreciate that! How inspiring your story is! I will definitely PM you if I have any other questions.

Once again, thank you!!

kelly&wayne · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:d87d592c-5dd0-46f7-8655-8aa4060850b0">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Question for teachers : What great advice! I can see this, completely. It warms my heart. Thank you! You've definitely given me a lot to think about.
Posted by shannonalise[/QUOTE]

Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions or need a sounding board. I can't say that my FI hasn't worried about me on occasion. Teaching in a difficult community definitely can come with its fair share of stresses, but your administrative team makes all the difference in the world. My principal is amazing and the measures he has put in place to put the welfare of students and staff first is great.

jamiefour · June 2010

Please do Shannon. I also wanted to add, when I got this job my mother was freaked out by the area it was in. When I met FI I drove him by where I worked and he was always scared something would happen to me. I saw their points but trust me I felt very safe where I was. (I don't know why I just did) HTH.

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:af18d79e-3137-4ed0-af02-e7a13851a443">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Question for teachers : Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions or need a sounding board. I can't say that my FI hasn't worried about me on occasion. Teaching in a difficult community definitely can come with its fair share of stresses, but your administrative team makes all the difference in the world. My principal is amazing and the measures he has put in place to put the welfare of students and staff first is great.
Posted by kelly&wayne[/QUOTE]

That's wonderful. Thank you so much. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />

shannonalise · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_question-teachers?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d0c8211c-02ba-4aac-b299-794dc9ff3014Post:d1a816fc-a6a1-4ed2-84f7-695f2844ded5">Re: Question for teachers</a>:
[QUOTE]Please do Shannon. I also wanted to add, when I got this job my mother was freaked out by the area it was in. When I met FI I drove him by where I worked and he was always scared something would happen to me. I saw their points but trust me I felt very safe where I was. (I don't know why I just did) HTH.
Posted by jamiefour[/QUOTE]

That's awesome that you felt that way. Thank you again!

barbbhoww · June 2010

My dad worked at one in the inner city of Chicago. He said it was the most challenging job he has ever had but it made him a stronger and more successful teacher. The resources were not always there and he had to compromise a lot.

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