Catholic Weddings

Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"

There are a couple of common misunderstandings regarding marriage in the church that I think needs to be addressed. Perhaps this could be a "sticky"

-A Catholic is bound by canonical form in their marriage. This usually means marrying in a Catholic parish, and going through the usual preparation requirements. Sometimes a Catholic can get a dispensation from form to marry in another location, but they are NOT dispensed from the same requirements of preparation. 

A Catholic must get permission to marry a non-Catholic Christian from the Bishop, even if marrying according to form in the church. 
A Catholic must get a dispensation to marry a Non-baptized person from the Bishop even if marrying according to form in the church.
Both of these are usually taken care of by the priest, sometimes without the couple even knowing about it. 

--A Non-catholic is not bound by these same canons in their marriage. They can marry just as validly in a church or by a jp. The church regards non-Catholic marriages valid until proven otherwise. 

The necessary parts for a valid marriage are: "Free, total, faithful, and fruitful". This is for both Catholics and Non-catholics. There are many nuances to these terms that cannot be explained here. A Civil divorce does not undo a valid marriage. 

--If someone wants the tribunal to investigate a marriage for validity, they are asked to pay a fee to cover some of the costs. Usually, it only covers about half of the costs for the completion. Investigations take canon lawyers, and a tribunal court. There are actual costs involved. It is not considered a "donation" in paying this fee. You cannot "buy" an annulment. If there are financial difficulties, no one is denied the investigation process based on this.

There are 2 (sometimes considered 3) kinds of categories under the umbrella of "annulment". Technically, this term is used for those who are presumed to be in a valid marriage and must go through the full tribunal investigation and process with questions to answer as well as needing witnesses. This term is also known as "Declaration of nullity". The church CANNOT "annul" a marriage. It can investigate it to see if it was valid at the time of vows-- to see if all of the parts were in place. 

The other category, called "defect of form" or "lack of form". This is when a Catholic marries outside of the form of Catholic marriage with no dispensation to do so. This is a relatively quick process involving paperwork and not a big cost, but still must be done. 

A 3rd "category" is ligamen. This is when someone attempts a marriage, but was still presumably validly married to someone else. (This is NOT involving civil marriage/divorce). 
A person simply is not free to marry when they have made vows to someone else, and that marriage has not been declared null.





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Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"

  • ootmother2ootmother2 member
    Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited September 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:a3fce5e6-6ce4-4527-8885-e7a459ffc97b">Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]There are a couple of common misunderstandings regarding marriage in the church that I think needs to be addressed. Perhaps this could be a "sticky" -A Catholic is bound by canonical form in their marriage. This usually means marrying in a Catholic parish, and going through the usual preparation requirements. Sometimes a Catholic can get a dispensation from form to marry in another location, but they are NOT dispensed from the same requirements of preparation.  A Catholic must get permission to marry a non-Catholic Christian from the Bishop, even if marrying according to form in the church.  A Catholic must get a dispensation to marry a Non-baptized person from the Bishop even if marrying according to form in the church. Both of these are usually taken care of by the priest, sometimes without the couple even knowing about it.  --A Non-catholic is not bound by these same canons in their marriage. They can marry just as validly in a church or by a jp. The church regards non-Catholic marriages valid until proven otherwise.  The necessary parts for a valid marriage are: "Free, total, faithful, and fruitful". This is for both Catholics and Non-catholics. There are many nuances to these terms that cannot be explained here. A Civil divorce does not undo a valid marriage.  --If someone wants the tribunal to investigate a marriage for validity, they are asked to pay a fee to cover some of the costs. Usually, it only covers about half of the costs for the completion. Investigations take canon lawyers, and a tribunal court. There are actual costs involved. It is not considered a "donation" in paying this fee. You cannot "buy" an annulment. If there are financial difficulties, no one is denied the investigation process based on this. There are 2 (sometimes considered 3) kinds of categories under the umbrella of "annulment". Technically, this term is used for those who are presumed to be in a valid marriage and must go through the full tribunal investigation and process with questions to answer as well as needing witnesses. This term is also known as "Declaration of nullity". The church CANNOT "annul" a marriage. It can investigate it to see if it was valid at the time of vows-- to see if all of the parts were in place.  The other category, called "defect of form" or "lack of form". This is when a Catholic marries outside of the form of Catholic marriage with no dispensation to do so. This is a relatively quick process involving paperwork and not a big cost, but still must be done.  A 3rd "category" is ligamen. This is when someone attempts a marriage, but was still presumably validly married to someone else. (This is NOT involving civil marriage/divorce).  A person simply is not free to marry when they have made vows to someone else, and that marriage has not been declared null.
    Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]



    ETA": Catholic Marriage Rules should come from an informed member of the Church ( clergy perhaps?)y, not a school music teacher who has never been married.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:057cab05-571f-4c9b-b87b-e12c720909dd">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules" : ETA": Catholic Marriage Rules should come from an informed member of the Church ( clergy perhaps?)y, not a school music teacher who has never been married.
    Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

    Oot, if you have something important to say, then you don't need to use ad hominems to do so.

    I don't think it's fair to suggest that only clergy have access to canon law or doctrine.  If we lay Catholics had to ask a priest about every single thing relating to Church law, then priests would be even more overworked than they already are.

    SaveSave
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:c14062fa-d1af-43be-b797-93d55eca701d">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules" : Oot, if you have something important to say, then you don't need to use ad hominems to do so. I don't think it's fair to suggest that only clergy have access to canon law or doctrine.  If we lay Catholics had to ask a priest about every single thing relating to Church law, then priests would be even more overworked than they already are.
    Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

    Clergy was just a suggestion.  I don't feel that the person in question is at all qualified to be advising on the internet on such serious matters.

    As I studied world religions for several terms in college (how's that for a minor to a Economic & Finance major?  Still, even after all these years as a practicing Catholic, I would never presume myself knowledgeable enough to post as she has. Egotism is a sin you know
  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited September 2012
    um....I'm not a school music teacher.

    and you don't know if I have been married or not.

    This isnt' "egotism". This is because I DO have the credentials to post such. and you can take what I've posted and verify them. There's not egotistical about posting these things.  You have no knowledge about my credentials....you can "feel" I'm not qualified all you want.

    Slander is also a sin.
  • [QUOTE]In Response to Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules" : ETA": Catholic Marriage Rules should come from an informed member of the Church ( clergy perhaps?)y, not a school music teacher who has never been married.
    Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]
    And yet, it is unfortunately shown time and time again on this board that there exists plenty of priests who give innaccuarate information and sometime counsel. "Being a priest" does not guarantee infalibility. At least on this board there are many posters who have the desire and capability to clarify or correct misinformation.<div>
    <div>OOT, if you have any evidence to the contrary, I am sure we would all appreciate knowing if anything that Agape wrote was innaccurate.</div></div><div>
    </div><div>As for "giving advice on the internet," LOL... I'm pretty sure there are no qualifications for that! Welcome to the internet! Anyone can say what they want...</div>
    Anniversary
  • Love thy internet neighbor....
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    Ovarian cyst lapro: '01, '04, '09 Conal biopsy: '01- results negative Dilation: '03 for cervical scarring Pcos test: '05, FSH and LH normal Mirena removed July '12 My Ovulation Chart
  • agape is what i would consider a very informed member of the Church.

    clergy, other than the pope, are not infallible.  i can name countless real life examples where a priest has given guidance that goes against catholic teaching to a parishioner.  sometimes this is due to a hidden agenda, wherein the priest doesnt agree with the church, sometimes its due to lack of training, and more often than not, i think its done so that the church doesnt lose members. 

    based upon my knowledge and research, everything agape posted is spot on correct.

  • This is a little off-topic from the turn this discussion has taken, but is in response to the original post.

    What is any Catholic teaching related to 2 Catholics entering into marriage, who already have a child out of wedlock.  This is the situation FI & I are in, and I am genuinely curious about the answer.  Our priest has never mentioned anything to us about it, but it is also not the orinigal priest we spoke with, because our parish got a new priest last year.  I looked at a few other online resources, including a link that was posted...yesterday I think, or maybe a couple days ago, but I didn't see this situation mentioned anywhere.

    I've learned a lot from lurking on this board, and just would like to know the answer to this.  Thanks!!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • What is any Catholic teaching related to 2 Catholics entering into marriage, who already have a child out of wedlock.

    alexa - my thoughts on this are that the priest would most likely want you to confess to the sin of pre-marital relations (the baby is NOT a sin, but the act of creating the child is considered a sin as it was outside of marriage), ask you to abstain until your marriage, and then probably ask you additional questions to  ensure that you are entering marriage freely and not solely because you have a child together.  otherwise, provided you've made good confessions and make the effort to avoid further sin there should be no issues barring you from being married in the church.  im sure the priest would encourage you to baptize your child if you have not done so already.
  • OOT, as I've said before.... please explain where agapecarrie has provided misinformation. That is the way to solve the "problem". Snarky remarks and personal attacks are NOT the way to solve anything.
  • Okay, good to know.  Yes, all that was/is being done.  The same priest we have now actually baptized our daughter when she was 3 weeks old.

    Also, we really didn't want to live together before we were married, but that would mean that one of us would have to be apart from our daughter.  So we did the best compromise we could come up with, and we alternate staying (all 3 of us) with my parents and FI's parents (they live about 5 min apart).  It has been really rough, but I think the priest (and our parents) really appreciate that we are trying to do this instead of moving into our house early.

    It's been very stressful, but now I can tell myself, "only a couple more months..."

    Thanks for the insight!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Carrie - Can you link me directly to the Church documents you are referencing? If we are going to make a sticky, I'd like to include those.
  • Canon Law, Catechism, and TOB (also covered in catechism)

    You already linked canon law in the site above. This was just a quick run down. 


  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:057cab05-571f-4c9b-b87b-e12c720909dd">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules" : ETA": Catholic Marriage Rules should come from an informed member of the Church ( clergy perhaps?)y, not a school music teacher who has never been married.
    Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

    I lose more and more respect for you everytime you say something snooty like this. I mean who ARE you?
    Anniversary
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:bfd5b371-f7ce-4b28-bb67-af608108f56b">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]Just to clarify, what is the purpose of these forums? Asking questions about our upcoming marriages & building community or preaching? Just wanting to know if frequenting this site is worth my time. If I want theology, I'll find it elsewhere.
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    I honestly find this comment rude. This is a forum to discuss Catholic Wedding Topics and general chit-chat. If you go on any forum on this site, you will see discussion that is not specifically related to the "Forum Topic".

    Any discussion is welcome on here, including theological discussion. Everyone here is asked to be respectful and to follow the TOS. If you don't care to discuss something, you are not obligated to post. If you wish to block someone so that you do not see their posts, you may do that.

    For the record, while agape has a rigid tone, she has provided a wealth of extrememly useful information. Though I would personally prefer a more welcoming approach, I haven't ever seen her post something that goes against a Church teaching. Nor have I seen anyone who believes she is doing so actually provide evidence.

    You do not need to agree with everyone, but being disrespectful is not the answer.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:399a679e-80e2-4cb1-93ba-6b947b21e8c9">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]Okay, good to know.  Yes, all that was/is being done.  The same priest we have now actually baptized our daughter when she was 3 weeks old. Also, we really didn't want to live together before we were married, but that would mean that one of us would have to be apart from our daughter.  So we did the best compromise we could come up with, and we alternate staying (all 3 of us) with my parents and FI's parents (they live about 5 min apart).  It has been really rough, but I think the priest (and our parents) really appreciate that we are trying to do this instead of moving into our house early. It's been very stressful, but now I can tell myself, "only a couple more months..." Thanks for the insight!
    Posted by AlexaNP[/QUOTE]

    Wow, good for you!  I am inspired when I hear stories like yours!  You two must be amazing parents, you are setting such a great example for your little girl.  Good for you guys, you have my utmost respect!  And congratulations on your upcoming wedding! :o)
    Daisypath Anniversary tickers Lilypie Pregnancy tickers
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:64a42c68-f549-4382-a636-b34a6527f380">Re:Basics on Catholic Marriage quot;rulesquot;</a>:
    [QUOTE]It is an honest question. Considering the tone of rhe OP, this is not a 'discussion' piece. This should be at the top of the forum with other FYI type marerial. I personally think this is a continuation of the annulment thread that was closed because it got off topic. Is the solution to continue said discussion here? I'll be a lurker from now on. No point in posting here. I just think this post is changing the tone of the forums to be more like Catholic Answers. And it's a tone i don't care for. I thought this group was different.
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    <div>As I said when I made the post, I was hoping it could be a sticky. (before my intent was questioned. I try to be helpful and I get attacked). This is important information that can be helpful to people concerned with these things. And it can hopefully prevent some snarky comments about buying annulments and such. </div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:64a42c68-f549-4382-a636-b34a6527f380">Re:Basics on Catholic Marriage quot;rulesquot;</a>:
    [QUOTE]It is an honest question. Considering the tone of rhe OP, this is not a 'discussion' piece. This should be at the top of the forum with other FYI type marerial. I personally think this is a continuation of the annulment thread that was closed because it got off topic. Is the solution to continue said discussion here? I'll be a lurker from now on. No point in posting here. I just think this post is changing the tone of the forums to be more like Catholic Answers. And it's a tone i don't care for. I thought this group was different.
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry you feel that you want to simply lurk. I feel that all of the posters have some value to add - yourself included. We can all improve the tone here - it is not determined by one or two people. 

    I'm just really not sure why 1 or 2 posts are representative of the entire community. Please look down the page - there are a TON a very helpful, positive posts by the many wonderful ladies here. I think it is unfair to overlook them. Every single board has posts that go off track, posts that contain arguments. There's no way to prevent that. We just need to brush ourselves off and move forward.

    Your question was honest - but you, yourself were snarky in your post. So, let's just be honest here - we all have our moments! We need to be able to shrug-off someone's tone sometimes. We need to give them the benefit of the doubt. That's the kind thing to do.

    The moderators cannot police every single post and determine whether it is "worthy" or fits into some special "criteria". Not every post has to be a discussion. Look around the Knot - some are "PSA"s, some are Polls, some are Vents/Rants. It keeps things interesting.
  • edited September 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:64a42c68-f549-4382-a636-b34a6527f380">Re:Basics on Catholic Marriage quot;rulesquot;</a>:
    [QUOTE]It is an honest question. Considering the tone of rhe OP, this is not a 'discussion' piece. This should be at the top of the forum with other FYI type marerial. I personally think this is a continuation of the annulment thread that was closed because it got off topic. Is the solution to continue said discussion here? I'll be a lurker from now on. No point in posting here. I just think this post is changing the tone of the forums to be more like Catholic Answers. And it's a tone i don't care for. I thought this group was different.
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    TXKristan, I understand where you're coming from, but I hope you'll change your mind and continue posting.  I've enjoyed your presence on this board

     

  • edited September 2012
    Kristan, I hope that you will reconsider, but I think that this board should be and is a great source for more than just wedding liturgy questions.  To be quite honest, if that was all this board was for, catholicweddinghelp does that already.

    It has become (for me at least) a community for Catholic women to discuss anything relevant to our marriages and our faith.  I know that this was the first place I learned about NFP, for one.  Now that's relevant to marriage, but certainly not a wedding ceremony, you know what I mean?

    Now, I'll address this last thing to everyone:

    This forum is NOT a place to harrass, harangue, molest, or torment other members.  I think we could all benefit from something I've learned with regards to sending emails:

    If you are mad, upset, sad, or filled with some other passion when you type an email (in this case, post), take a step back before you hit "send."  Take a break, come back to your computer with a clear head, and reread what you have written.  Then take a moment to make sure you've said what you need to say clearly without being nasty.

    Now, I don't want this to be a place where people are afraid to disagree with the "popular" opinion.  I don't want it to be a place where we can't engage in debates.  If you need to vent, vent to me.  But don't drag petty arguments onto this board.  I don't even want to think about the number of lurkers who turn away from this board daily because some of us can't behave like adults.

    Anniversary

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  • I don't even want to think about the number of lurkers who turn away from this board daily because some of us can't behave like adults.

    im sorry, but i call it as it is.  its one person.  she knows who she is and we all know who she is, and here's a big hint - it isnt agape.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:f0f21375-78e8-45c0-98d2-eb069676a678">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules" : I honestly find this comment rude. This is a forum to discuss Catholic Wedding Topics and general chit-chat. If you go on any forum on this site, you will see discussion that is not specifically related to the "Forum Topic". Any discussion is welcome on here, including theological discussion. Everyone here is asked to be respectful and to follow the TOS. If you don't care to discuss something, you are not obligated to post. If you wish to block someone so that you do not see their posts, you may do that. For the record, while agape has a rigid tone, she has provided a wealth of extrememly useful information. Though I would personally prefer a more welcoming approach, I haven't ever seen her post something that goes against a Church teaching. Nor have I seen anyone who believes she is doing so actually provide evidence. You do not need to agree with everyone, but being disrespectful is not the answer.
    Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

    <div>I didn't think that comment was rude, just saying this is a wedding related board and not the place to go for theology. That is not to say you can't discuss theology related things in a "catholic" titled forum, just saying this isn't the first place to go to ask about theology. Maybe it was just the way it was presented but that's how I took the post.</div>
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • By reading the title of this forum, I was hoping it was going to be a discussion on what the rules of a catholic marrige are, not in regards to annulments. My future fiance and I were having a discussion about what was allowed in the marriage bed and what wasn't. I had heard somethings on catholic answer's and catholicmatch.com but wasn't sure what was right because poeple post on there who don't have the creditials so it's hard to know what to believe and what not to believe unless they post a reference. 

    We are aware of no birth control and how the marital act must end in intercourse and open to life. What other rules are there? Or are there any other rules? I feel like the catechism just leave's somethings open to interpretation. I'm taking catechism classes right now to learn more but I'm learning about pillar #1 and it's not the morality one plus I'm not sure what they will cover in that class in regards to sex. We have gone thru all of our classes including NFP but none of those classes touched on this topic. Anyone have any info? Should I post a new thread? This is the types of things I thought were going to be discussed in this thread. Thanks.
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • I just think it's silly to think that you can divorce theology from Catholic living.

    If someone comes on here questioning issues of divorce, marriage, annulments, etc., how can you truly answer the question without talking about the Catholic theology of these issues?

    This is what usually happens:

    Someone asks a question about the rules or guidelines of Catholic marriage
    People reply with helpful answers to their question
    Original poster, or someone else, isn't satisfied with the answer and think it's unfair/inconvenient/problematic, etc.
    So others chime in to defend the answer with Catholic theology
    Then someone says, "I don't want to be preached to... I just had a question"

    Sigh.

    SaveSave
  • Sigma, I don't really have clear answers to your questions, but there are a couple of books I can suggest:

    Good News about Sex and Marriage by Christopher West and
    Sex Au Naturel by Patrick Coffin

    There's also Holy Sex, but I can't remember the author's name.  I think those cover a lot of sort of "the basics" of sex.
    Anniversary

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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:24268d4c-c257-42fc-a02e-4d9fc6d66e1d">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]By reading the title of this forum, I was hoping it was going to be a discussion on what the rules of a catholic marrige are, not in regards to annulments. My future fiance and I were having a discussion about what was allowed in the marriage bed and what wasn't. I had heard somethings on catholic answer's and catholicmatch.com but wasn't sure what was right because poeple post on there who don't have the creditials so it's hard to know what to believe and what not to believe unless they post a reference.  We are aware of no birth control and how the marital act must end in intercourse and open to life. What other rules are there? Or are there any other rules? I feel like the catechism just leave's somethings open to interpretation. I'm taking catechism classes right now to learn more but I'm learning about pillar #1 and it's not the morality one plus I'm not sure what they will cover in that class in regards to sex. We have gone thru all of our classes including NFP but none of those classes touched on this topic. Anyone have any info? Should I post a new thread? This is the types of things I thought were going to be discussed in this thread. Thanks.
    Posted by sigmaurse[/QUOTE]

    Maybe you or someone else wants to start a new thread on this because it could get complicated, but the general idea if that sex should be both procreative and unitive, as in, it should bring the couple together in selfless love.

    As long as the sexual act ends in vaginal sex, there really aren't any strict rules as long as each spouse is respecting the other and not treating them like an object.  So there's nothing necessarily wrong with a Catholic couple using other positions, for example, as long as both spouses are comfortable with it, and it doesn't imply any kind of objectification.  Each spouses gives themselves freely to the other in love, and doesn't feel pressured or manipulated.

    To be more graphic, some theologians still argue about anal sex.  Of course it must end with vaginal sex, which makes it somewhat of a logistic/sanitary issue.  And anal sex in itself can be dangerous/unhealthy for the body.  But there's nothing really intrinsically wrong with it, as long as it's just for foreplay.

    SaveSave
  • Perhaps the title of the thread could be edited so that is more clear that it is about annulments as well as marriage?
    Anniversary
  • Ok that's basically what we discussed and anal sex isn't an option for us and that isn't what I was asking about. To me as a nurse having anal sex is unsafe and unsanitary, especially for a Catholic who has to end in a "open to life" way.

    I was specifically wondering about oral sex on the male and if it was allowed as foreplay as long as the sexual act ended in intercourse and open to life. Thanks for the info. My fiance has a master degree in theology but I'm not sure this was discussed in one of his classes. We were thinking of getting a few books. Thanks.
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_basics-on-catholic-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a57b04c9-94ca-4ff1-a4ca-f0d013c26445Post:a8de29a8-ff41-4338-b58b-0b98ef756688">Re: Basics on Catholic Marriage "rules"</a>:
    [QUOTE]Ok that's basically what we discussed and anal sex isn't an option for us and that isn't what I was asking about. To me as a nurse having anal sex is unsafe and unsanitary, especially for a Catholic who has to end in a "open to life" way. I was specifically wondering about oral sex on the male and if it was allowed as foreplay as long as the sexual act ended in intercourse and open to life. Thanks for the info. My fiance has a master degree in theology but I'm not sure this was discussed in one of his classes. We were thinking of getting a few books. Thanks.
    Posted by sigmaurse[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you about anal sex, but I know some couples are okay with the risks.

    As far as oral sex, you're right, there's nothing wrong it as foreplay. 

    Yeah, they usually don't discuss that kind of stuff in theology classes ;)

    I think the Holy Sex book Prof referred to is by Dr. Gregory Popkak.  I've heard that's a good one.

    SaveSave
  • Yeah that's why they think Catholic's don't talk about sex or think it's taboo and only for making babies but that's totally not the truth!
    BabyFruit Ticker
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