NEW TOS - Please Read before posting

Simply Fated · April 2013

I'm not sure if this is the best thread to point this out, but now seems as good as a place as any...
The first line, about this place being for brides, really threw me off because I'm not one. It doesn't sound very inclusive at all. I'm glad others have pointed it out and I appreciate the alternative suggestions for the TOS.
To add to that... I would love to have a way to be here without "pretending to be a bride." There's a fake groom, a fake wedding date and all that jazz in my profile, even though this place is suppose to be inclusive for anyone involved in, or interested in, weddings.

zantster · April 2013

Knot Jackie:

I just wanted to say that from my observations you are making an admirable effort at being responsive to as many questions, concerns, comments and clarifications as you possibly can. Thank you for being patient and professional in your demeanor as well as being objective in the positions you take with a focus on neutrality. Out of the thousands of brides who visit TK you have to represent their best interests even if many of them are members of the silent majority who do not post for various reasons e.g. introverts, privacy, shy, intimidated etc. Just keep doing the best you can. It is not going unnoticed.

Particularly since as I'm sure you know, in the words of Abraham Lincoln:

"You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time"

TKzilla · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:d3b7d265-0397-4f84-9520-0b2f56f435d3">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : Hey lady! :) Of course it's laid back over there, we are daydreaming on island time ;)
Posted by OBX2011[/QUOTE]

<div>Yeah girl! I'll be in that neck of the woods in about three weeks for my pre-wedding mini-moon (as I've dubbed it). So stoked!</div>

ZiggyZos · April 2013

I would also like to point out that while PMs are banned from being shared, the new TOS does not say anything about restricting the sending of hate mail in PMs... unless I missed it. So even more of a carte blanche for ticked off posters (generally newbies with bad ideas) to feel it is perfectly fine to send hateful/mean/rude messages to people (generally regs) trying to be helpful.

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:5f4ed95e-9971-4495-b45a-b4638fba8322">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : I didn't get the memo to post the new TOS on my board.
Posted by OBX2011[/QUOTE]

I believe Knot Jen posted it in the moderator section, no?

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:9a2094e6-5812-4229-81ac-bb128123b073">Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]Having Reread this, I have another question. It says you cannot call out people for their thoughts, beliefs, or posts. I assume this is because of two things. 1. The gay marriage thread and 2. FFF. However, if taken literally, it could mean a personal attack is quoting someone who believes it is totally okay to force BMs to pay for crazy shoes or tattoo airbrushing and telling them they are wrong. I'm not asking for a rewrite, but can you clarify, preferably using examples what is and is not okay? Is it just "hot button issues", i.e. if we make a law based on your religious view it will cause immeasurable suffering to others, or are we no longer allowed to tell anyone that anything they think is wrong?
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

This part was added based on a lot of threads, not just those two.

If someone posts they are pro something - that does not give anyone the right to jump down their throat if they are against it. You can voice opinions, but not in an attacking manner.

I really would love to give specific examples, but there are just too many. I will, however, say that we will be jumping in as much as possible before banning, etc. just to say "hey, this isn't okay because abc..."

I am updating some things from ALL of the feedback I recieved, but as mentioned before, these have been created for the greater good of the boards - they are not going to make everyone 100% happy. Sorry.

As for the boards, I thought someone had posted in the moderator section asking mods to post the new TOS link on all the boards. If not, myself and Knot Irene will try to get it on all the boards today.

Thanks again for the feedback everyone - the good and the bad!

Jackie

ZiggyZos · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:e774e9b3-a908-4aec-afaf-1803f7852fcf">Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting : This part was added based on a lot of threads, not just those two. If someone posts they are pro something - that does not give anyone the right to jump down their throat if they are against it. You can voice opinions, but not in an attacking manner. I really would love to give specific examples, but there are just too many. I will, however, say that we will be jumping in as much as possible before banning, etc. just to say "hey, this isn't okay because abc..." I am updating some things from ALL of the feedback I recieved, but as mentioned before, these have been created for the greater good of the boards - they are not going to make everyone 100% happy. Sorry. As for the boards, I thought someone had posted in the moderator section asking mods to post the new TOS link on all the boards. If not, myself and Knot Irene will try to get it on all the boards today. Thanks again for the feedback everyone - the good and the bad! Jackie
Posted by Knot Jackie[/QUOTE]

I think the problem comes in with different perceptions of what "voicing an opinion" is versus "jumping down someone's throat".

Poster A: "I vote based on my religious beliefs and that includes voting against same sex marriage. But I a compassionate person and wouldn't want to deny anyone certain privileges like those afforded to next-of kin"
Poster B: "religious viewpoints shouldn't dictate state and federal laws and it is beyond me how anyone can vote against the rights of other human beings while claiming to be a compassionate person."

Both are stating opinions, but poster A could certainly feel "attacked" or "jumped on" by the latter posting, especially if it is reinforced by several people posting the same thing.

OliveOilsMom · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:612920e3-f4de-48f9-b0ab-660cf865a4de">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : I believe Knot Jen posted it in the moderator section, no?
Posted by Knot Jackie[/QUOTE]

I'm a Mod and have no idea where the moderator section is. I was never given a link or directions on how to access it. I know it exists because people have spoken about it before, but that's it. Could I be PM'd a link?

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:befa2be4-b163-423b-87a6-ad76b5b9424e">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]Jackie- Since it seems you're not going to answer my previous question I'm going to go ahead and ask another one. You guys that make the rules at the knot do realize that part of the reason these forums fare so much better than Wedding Wire and Wedding Bee is the atmosphere here right? Why are you trying to turn it into another Wedding Wire? For those getting pushed over to the nest change your wedding date in your profile. You don't really think I'm getting married in 2016 right?
Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]

We are not trying to change the atmosphere, we are trying to protect people. I am doing my best to please everyone, but at the end of the day, every member should feel comfortable posting on these boards and it is fact that they do not because of the attacking that goes on.

This does not mean "if you can't handle it, get off the boards"-- that is exactly the mindset that I want to eliminate. This isn't a place for people to have to "handle" anything -- it is a place to come for help, have fun, develop relationships and vent about life.

I can't define it, but think of this this way: If your child was on a playground and someone was speaking to them in what could be seen as an attacking way, how would you feel? How would you feel as that child?

Adults get the same feelings when attacked. I understand we are mature adults and the conversations are great- but sometimes, they get out of hand. I tihnk you can all agree with me on that. Things get heated - which shows your passion - but no one should be getting hurt, bullied, yelled at, attacked - whatever you want to call it, for sharing an opinion or thought. Share opinions, but respect theirs.

I want everyone to put themselves in that mindset before going and belittling someone. I want the boards to stay fun and snarky, but no one - NO ONE- should feel bad after signing off.

Please, try to understand my side of it. I am on every Knotties team and just trying to make this the best place it can be. I am really trying my best here and am running out of words.....

J&K10910 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:e38379e7-3d79-4266-9b30-93f278742125">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : <strong>We are not trying to change the atmosphere, we are trying to protect people. I am doing my best to please everyone, but at the end of the day, every member should feel comfortable posting on these boards and it is fact that they do not because of the attacking that goes on.</strong> This does not mean "if you can't handle it, get off the boards"-- that is exactly the mindset that I want to eliminate. This isn't a place for people to have to "handle" anything -- it is a place to come for help, have fun, develop relationships and vent about life. I can't define it, but think of this this way: If your child was on a playground and someone was speaking to them in what could be seen as an attacking way, how would you feel? How would you feel as that child? Adults get the same feelings when attacked. I understand we are mature adults and the conversations are great- but sometimes, they get out of hand. I tihnk you can all agree with me on that. Things get heated - which shows your passion - but no one should be getting hurt, bullied, yelled at, attacked - whatever you want to call it, for sharing an opinion or thought. Share opinions, but respect theirs. I want everyone to put themselves in that mindset before going and belittling someone. I want the boards to stay fun and snarky, but no one - NO ONE- should feel bad after signing off. Please, try to understand my side of it. I am on every Knotties team and just trying to make this the best place it can be. I am really trying my best here and am running out of words.....
Posted by Knot Jackie[/QUOTE]

Just to play devil's advocate here...that WILL change the atmosphere.

And what about the people that will no longer feel comfortable posting here because the way they've posted for YEARS is no longer allowed and they will have to fear banning for looking at someone the wrong way?

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

I'm sorry Jackie but your idea of defining an attack sounds like the pornography "I'll know it when I see it". There are too many people who cannot differentiate between having their idea or opinion attacked and being attacked personally. It would be nice if we had more mods who were willing and able to step in and explain the difference to people who cannot tell instead of chiding the regs to "play nice". Personally, I think the busy boards should all have 2 or 3 mods each.

kmbryant2413 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:e774e9b3-a908-4aec-afaf-1803f7852fcf">Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting : This part was added based on a lot of threads, not just those two. If someone posts they are pro something - that does not give anyone the right to jump down their throat if they are against it. You can voice opinions, but not in an attacking manner. I really would love to give specific examples, but there are just too many. I will, however, say that we will be jumping in as much as possible before banning, etc. just to say "hey, this isn't okay because abc..." I am updating some things from ALL of the feedback I recieved, but as mentioned before, these have been created for the greater good of the boards - they are not going to make everyone 100% happy. Sorry. <strong>As for the boards, I thought someone had posted in the moderator section asking mods to post the new TOS link on all the boards.</strong> If not, myself and Knot Irene will try to get it on all the boards today. Thanks again for the feedback everyone - the good and the bad! Jackie
Posted by Knot Jackie[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Not to be rude, but is it really that hard to just put a sticky on all the boards? Or at least the Wedding Boards and Special Topic Wedding Boards? It's been less than half a day and this post is already well on its way to being buried. Apparently some of the mods don't know where the mod board is, or some might not be around for a day or two and then the new TOS is gone and buried, on CC at least.

</div>

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:15e6c55b-5a4c-42e5-bdce-9b89c619400d">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm sorry Jackie but your idea of defining an attack sounds like the pornography "I'll know it when I see it". There are too many people who cannot differentiate between having their idea or opinion attacked and being attacked personally. It would be nice if we had more mods who were willing and able to step in and explain the difference to people who cannot tell instead of chiding the regs to "play nice". Personally, I think the busy boards should all have 2 or 3 mods each.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

I am going to be 100% honest with all of you.

Currently, we are revamping how our administrators work here and are going to have someone on the boards with you as their sole position, no other responsibilities (their roles are usually split between this and other duties). This person is going to be able to guide you through the changes as well as advise on the good/bad. I realized we needed this once I jumped in on the conversations and really saw what was going on. The need is there, so we're making it happen for you. Literally, this person is soley going to focus on the community boards and our members. They'll be your advocate.

Our moderators are volunteers, so they do the best they can.

Hoping that we get them through the door in the next 2 weeks. Until then, you have me and Knot Irene to try our best to be here for you and get things done.

I am going to work through some of this and will be off for a bit.

Hope that clarifies some things.

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:43be7df0-194e-440a-a693-bf3efdca4110">Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting : Not to be rude, but is it really that hard to just put a sticky on all the boards? Or at least the Wedding Boards and Special Topic Wedding Boards? It's been less than half a day and this post is already well on its way to being buried. Apparently some of the mods don't know where the mod board is, or some might not be around for a day or two and then the new TOS is gone and buried, on CC at least.
Posted by kmbryant2413[/QUOTE]

I am making edits based on the feedback. Then we will be posting them.

daria24 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:e38379e7-3d79-4266-9b30-93f278742125">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : We are not trying to change the atmosphere, we are trying to protect people. I am doing my best to please everyone, but at the end of the day, every member should feel comfortable posting on these boards and it is fact that they do not because of the attacking that goes on. This does not mean "if you can't handle it, get off the boards"-- that is exactly the mindset that I want to eliminate. This isn't a place for people to have to "handle" anything -- it is a place to come for help, have fun, develop relationships and vent about life. I can't define it, but think of this this way: If your child was on a playground and someone was speaking to them in what could be seen as an attacking way, how would you feel? How would you feel as that child? Adults get the same feelings when attacked. I understand we are mature adults and the conversations are great- but sometimes, they get out of hand. I tihnk you can all agree with me on that. Things get heated - which shows your passion - but no one should be getting hurt, bullied, yelled at, attacked - whatever you want to call it, for sharing an opinion or thought. Share opinions, but respect theirs. I want everyone to put themselves in that mindset before going and belittling someone. I want the boards to stay fun and snarky, but no one - <strong>NO ONE- should feel bad after signing off.</strong> Please, try to understand my side of it. I am on every Knotties team and just trying to make this the best place it can be. I am really trying my best here and am running out of words.....
Posted by Knot Jackie[/QUOTE]

<div>I just don't understand how that's possible. I mean, if someone comes on here and says "I'm B-listing my guest list, how do I word this" and 10 people say "Don't B-list, it's very rude" OP will feel bullied/attacked/hurt/etc If someone comes on here and says "I don't think same-sex couples should get married" anyone on here who is part of a same sex couple might feel attacked/hurt/etc. </div><div>
</div><div>If your goal is for no one to feel hurt on these boards...I feel like you might as well just delete the Community section entirely. </div>

kmbryant2413 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:0809e733-7be1-4987-994e-034c42794aa5">Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:NEW TOS Please Read before posting : I am making edits based on the feedback. Then we will be posting them.
Posted by Knot Jackie[/QUOTE]
<img class="image" src="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3hsuo8YFO1r1stu1o1_500.gif" alt="" width="500" height="270" />

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:c21eb24e-b2bd-44d3-ac15-f3acb8fb2157">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : This. I get what you're trying to do. I just think the TOS has several arbitrary "lines" drawn based on specific instances and leaves big glaring gaps for others when they are all the same end problem. Also, I did not mean that I wanted you to LIST every real life example from past posts. I wanted you to give an example of X is okay to say, Y is not in response to my question.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

All joking aside --- anyone wants to take pieces of "the short version" (#1-6) on the TOS and reword the way you think is best, I am here to listen.

NYCMercedes · April 2013

Getting back to the married old hags moving to the nest: I'm a mom. TK should want me here. I have spent / am spending money on three weddings and am very involved in planning and paying towards those weddings with all my existing and my new kids. You can't even guess how much $$$ I've spent on your advertisers. Hint: plenty! We found our venues, photos, gowns, photoboohs, etc. all through your advertisers. What is the moms/maids board for? Brides venting?

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:28c25656-893f-4e1e-8f3b-3007b7cb19c0">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]Getting back to the married old hags moving to the nest: I'm a mom. TK should want me here. I have spent / am spending money on three weddings and am very involved in planning and paying towards those weddings with all my existing and my new kids. You can't even guess how much $$$ I've spent on your advertisers. Hint: plenty! We found our venues, photos, gowns, photoboohs, etc. all through your advertisers. What is the moms/maids board for? Brides venting?
Posted by NYCMercedes[/QUOTE]

Hi, thanks for the feedback. I addressed this yesterday -- we are rewording it. We want you here, just thought The Nest should be shared because it is helpful after marriage.

<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';color:black;">If you are married, we recommend you visit The Nest at <a href="http://www.thenest.com" rel="nofollow">www.thenest.com</a> for more boards that may interest you!</span>

Maggie0829 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:24013108-82e4-49b4-8683-1f98d1a7596d">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : I'm a Mod and have no idea where the moderator section is. I was never given a link or directions on how to access it. I know it exists because people have spoken about it before, but that's it. Could I be PM'd a link?
Posted by OliveOilsMom[/QUOTE]

I'm a Mod as well and I have asked about this a few times over the months and still nothing. I think it is an elusive secret board that only super special mods can get to and to be brought into the club you need to learn the super secret handshake, dance, and song :)

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:3a317689-8ba5-4d1d-8b4b-9404dd3ee01c">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : I'm a Mod as well and I have asked about this a few times over the months and still nothing. I think it is an elusive secret board that only super special mods can get to and to be brought into the club you need to learn the super secret handshake, dance, and song :)
Posted by Maggie0829[/QUOTE]

Talking to Knot Jen -- but I think this is it: <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/TheKnot/Groups/Moderator.aspx?slGroupKey=38346f64-d882-4bfc-a8bc-0c88a2748589">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/TheKnot/Groups/Moderator.aspx?slGroupKey=38346f64-d882-4bfc-a8bc-0c88a2748589</a>

KnotJackie · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_new-tos-please-read-before-posting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1598705f-80b2-4235-bc88-21d9d1028cccPost:fc8ba1ef-3297-4c72-87a5-0610012708e0">Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NEW TOS - Please Read before posting : You have repeatedly (over the course of the past few weeks) glossed over my FFF questions. It doesn't make me feel like I'm being heard at all.
Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]

All of these posts are blurring together.... sorry, I thought I addressed FFF. What did I miss?

We are regrouping on it today as well.

NEW TOS - Please Read before posting

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